What would you like to be announced in the unlocking of the 'introducing women's football' section of the roadmap next week?

[decapitated]

What would you expect and what would you like to be announced in the women's football update due next week from SI according to the roadmap? 

 

I'll be honest, I don't know too much about women's football, but I'd like it tactically to feel different from men's football with some tactics that work with one gender being less effective with the other due to the physical differences involved. I'd also like at least 10 nations to be playable in women's football to make it feel like one interconnected world like the men's game.

[fc.cadoni]

1. The active leagues and competitions.

2. How the ME will handle Acceleration 20 in men and women.

3. If you have the option to establish a women team in a club without women team.

[decapitated]

1 hour ago, fc.cadoni said:

1. The active leagues and competitions.

2. How the ME will handle Acceleration 20 in men and women.

3. If you have the option to establish a women team in a club without women team.

Number 3. is something I haven't thought of before but I doubt it will be a possibility due to the licensing factors though I like the idea of London City Lionesses or Glasgow City starting a men's team and challenging the EPL or the old firm. 

number 2. is also an interesting thing to ponder. IRL the women's game is slower and less physical than the men's game than it should logically be slower to watch in the in-match graphics than the men's game. 

[XaW]

1. What nations and leagues are included
2. If we can seamlessly move between the men's and women's leagues (I have the impression we will, but I don't think I've seen it directly mentioned how it works)
3. The difference in how the match treats men's vs women's matches. Will we see a clear difference, and if so, how?

[Mobius]

other than the names of the players and staff, how else it will differ to men's/current FM. Essentially what makes it more than just another database

[mkstatto]

I don't disagree with anything above. 

On a personal note, I'd like to see both a feature update of what's in the women's game and a development blog of how they've done it over the past couple of years and what they've had to change. 

[gunner86]

I’d like to know how they’re planning to handle ongoing growth in the women’s game, particularly from the financial side.

I'd also like to know how women’s teams are going to sit in ownership structures - are they separate clubs which are affiliates, are they a different squad in the same club etc

[Bahoi]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

2. If we can seamlessly move between the men's and women's leagues (I have the impression we will, but I don't think I've seen it directly mentioned how it works)
 

This has been answered on Twitter, the answer is Yes.

[forameuss]

3 hours ago, decapitated said:

Number 3. is something I haven't thought of before but I doubt it will be a possibility due to the licensing factors though I like the idea of London City Lionesses or Glasgow City starting a men's team and challenging the EPL or the old firm. 

Sadly, I think it's infinitely more likely that Glasgow City fold under the new Old Firm pressure in the women's game, then they join the men's.  The two cheeks just have to ruin everything.

[forameuss]

I don't particularly mind what leagues are available, as I expect there'll be a decent smattering.  The Scottish league would be nice, but that's the only one I really care much about.  Much like the men's game, no real interest in the English leagues, but the US ones would be good with their historic position as THE leagues in the women's game.

Outside of that, I want to see what a women's game really means in FM, and where it diverges from a men's one.  And as others have said, how the game fits alongside the current database.  Anything else I'm happy to go exploring to find out.

[Craigus89]

I wonder on a practical level how it will work. Some assumptions that I am making until I know further:

1) The men's and women's games/leagues will run in parallel but will essentially be two separate databases. That would prevent women showing up in men's scouting reports when they are simply unable to be registered in the men's team, and vice versa.

2) The match engine will present the two games essentially identically. We have already seen in the screenshots that Fran Kirby has very good ratings, so they are obviously only comparable to other women, avoiding any silliness around men vs women ratings. There is no way (in my view) that the match engine will handle these ratings any differently, so when she is playing the match engine will present this like it were Antoine Griezman playing, but with a female skin. 

More than anything else I'm hoping we will actually see more of the game when things relating to the women's game are showcased. 

[JAwtunes]

Club structure and financing would be interesting. I think EPL clubs can put money into their women's teams without it counting towards PSR, for example. 

[XaW]

2 hours ago, Bahoi said:

This has been answered on Twitter, the answer is Yes.

Thanks, hard to spot everything posted there...

[permaculture]

i noticed in the screenshots (aside from the height thing), Fran Kirby isn't listed with any international caps while the men's player is.

i guess i'm now curious if the WWC / olympics are even going to be simulated - and how this will impact player fitness / development. not having the youth / senior national teams as a measuring stick for women's players is a bit hard to envision. certain leagues pause for the WWC / olympics as well - so i guess its important to hear whatever details exist for the international women's game.

[Dbuk1]

9 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

How the ME will handle Acceleration 20 in men and women.

I would be gobsmacked if the ME is different between men and woman. Surely the same just different avatars. 

[Fredrik]

7 hours ago, Bahoi said:

This has been answered on Twitter, the answer is Yes.

I'm very interested in how. For players they're probably going to use separate scales but for non-players?

How high CA will the Champions League winning manager have? Here's basically the only concern I have about the inclusion of the women's game. That they're going to do a another take on the 'gay player comes out' by trying to will something into existence. IRL there's a bias at the very least against managers/staff from that side. I want the game to mimick this regardless of what I feel about it in real life football. 

 

The roadmap will also ideally show something from new graphics and/or ME, perhaps "by accident". 

[noincophydr]

That you can choose to deselect all these leagues so that game does not lose performance. 

[Deisler26]

That it goes down as far as Level 5 of the English women's leagues, with proper names and everything

Also, how youth intakes will work

[dosh]

I’m curious how they plan to introduce women’s football without revealing any in-game interface, match graphics, or actual screenshots. Are they just going to get by with a few lines of text and some photos that have nothing to do with the actual gameplay?

[decapitated]

5 minutes ago, dosh said:

I’m curious how they plan to introduce women’s football without revealing any in-game interface, match graphics, or actual screenshots. Are they just going to get by with a few lines of text and some photos that have nothing to do with the actual gameplay?

I have a theory that choosing women's football first is an indirect way of debuting the match graphics and in-game interface without needing to go into too much detail. It would be strange like you say to introduce women's football without in-match screenshots or even gameplay footage to display the differences. It could be a very good way of showing off the graphical improvements whilst allowing more development time before the next roadmap item explaining it in more detail.

[Craigus89]

4 hours ago, dosh said:

I’m curious how they plan to introduce women’s football without revealing any in-game interface, match graphics, or actual screenshots. Are they just going to get by with a few lines of text and some photos that have nothing to do with the actual gameplay?

Judging by the way things have gone so far with this whole announcement, it will be exactly what you suggest, just some text and a reposting of the screenshot of Fran Kirby. 

[-Jef-]

I wonder if we will be able to have daughters since we've had chance to have sons in the game as well. Maybe sibling power duo?

[HUNT3R]

18 hours ago, -Jef- said:

I wonder if we will be able to have daughters since we've had chance to have sons in the game as well.

I don't have much interest in the women's side of the sport, but I never considered this! Now I'm really hoping it's part of the game. I've never had a son, so now I can double the disappointment. 

[XaW]

19 hours ago, -Jef- said:

I wonder if we will be able to have daughters since we've had chance to have sons in the game as well. Maybe sibling power duo?

Actually, this is making me want to play the women's football even more. And you better believe would rename my in-game daughter to the name of my daughter in real life!  

[-Jef-]

5 hours ago, XaW said:

Actually, this is making me want to play the women's football even more. And you better believe would rename my in-game daughter to the name of my daughter in real life!  

It would be REALLY cool if it had no bearing on if you managed men or women's teams. Like you'd get 3 daughters like Polgar sisters in chess. Making me giddy thinking about it  

[XaW]

26 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

It would be REALLY cool if it had no bearing on if you managed men or women's teams. Like you'd get 3 daughters like Polgar sisters in chess. Making me giddy thinking about it  

It would be awesome, suddenly you have a daughter or a son playing at another team. I would honestly love that!  

[StormenDK]

I doubt there will be anything with the match engine.

IF they wanted to show anything regarding the engine, they would have announced that first.

I think it will be mostly some information about how they motion capture the women players and how they research them. Maybe something about how their ratings are estimated.

So I think we will just get some player profiles, some info about leagues and something about how the men's and women's game function together. Not much more than that.

[Micho21]

How IA managers and eventual transfers between men's and women's leagues will be managed. I am slightly concerned about seeing prestigious managers moving between Chelsea to Chelsea women (just an example), as there aren't comparable universes at present.

Also knowing a bit more about what leagues are available... There are plenty of features to reveal indeed, it is the first time we will see anything about this.

Some pictures about the ME would be very appreciated, but I am probably too optimistic

Edited Thursday at 14:58 by Micho21

[decapitated]

3 hours ago, Micho21 said:

How IA managers and eventual transfers between men's and women's leagues will be managed. I am slightly concerned about seeing prestigious managers moving between Chelsea to Chelsea women (just an example), as there aren't comparable universes at present.

 

that could be solved by the best womens club sides having the same reputation as a 5th tier English side I reckon.

[nico_france]

Curious to understand how SI can manage the transfer fee inflation that we have in FM24, for women, especially when you play more than 5 seasons, where you have plenty of « average players » above 100M€

As compétitions prize money, sponsors etc,  are a galaxy below men football

Edited Thursday at 19:02 by nico_france

[Lord Rowell]

On 02/10/2024 at 06:41, decapitated said:

I have a theory that choosing women's football first is an indirect way of debuting the match graphics and in-game interface without needing to go into too much detail. It would be strange like you say to introduce women's football without in-match screenshots or even gameplay footage to display the differences. It could be a very good way of showing off the graphical improvements whilst allowing more development time before the next roadmap item explaining it in more detail.

Could be and it would be nice.

But also, they might just go down the route of what leagues they're going to do, and then some of the key difference descriptions in how the ME works for the women's game, transfer system, injuries e.g. effect of the menstrual cycle (though I read recently this is not completely certain) etc. Also obviously big-up the licensing agreements they have.

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

Top trolling if they just came out with a single paragraph confirming women's football was in this year and reposted the Fran Kirby screenshot. Then didn't update the roadmap thingy. 

[XV20]

1) Why's its been added ( little history/backstory)

2) little answers regarding how their personality/attributes affect them as players, do they take long holidays for no reason out of the blue..and so on

3) Gameplay on how they were able to capture and perfect their movements on/off the ball.

4) why it's a really fun mode to play.

                               Fin

[vrig]

13 hours ago, Micho21 said:

How IA managers and eventual transfers between men's and women's leagues will be managed. I am slightly concerned about seeing prestigious managers moving between Chelsea to Chelsea women (just an example), as there aren't comparable universes at present.

Also knowing a bit more about what leagues are available... There are plenty of features to reveal indeed, it is the first time we will see anything about this.

Some pictures about the ME would be very appreciated, but I am probably too optimistic

I imagine there'll just be a checkbox somewhere under the hood that denotes whether a staff member takes on jobs in the men's game, the women's game, or both.

As for what gets announced, I would guess nothing. We know what women's football is and we've known it'll be in the game for a long time now. Functionally, I'm expecting it to be an advert for the women's game more than an advert for FM.

[XaW]

Now that I think about it, I'm curious if they have modelled in pregnancy and maternity leave in the game. And if so, will it vary by country?

[-Jef-]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

Now that I think about it, I'm curious if they have modelled in pregnancy and maternity leave in the game. And if so, will it vary by country?

Imagine we make female manager. Get pregnant, forced to go on holiday for 6-12 months and then 14-16 years later we have our offspring in the game. I think that might be pushing it a bit.

[vikeologist]

14 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

Imagine we make female manager. Get pregnant, forced to go on holiday for 6-12 months and then 14-16 years later we have our offspring in the game. I think that might be pushing it a bit.

Why would a woman need to go on holiday for 12 months? How long do you think maternity leave is?

Sons  (and presumably now daughters) already exist in the game. Maternity and paternity leave might be an interesting addition to the game, but it probably wouldn't be worth the while coding for the few matches it would apply to. There's any number of 'life events' one could potentially put in, but the cumulative effect would be annoying. I think we just accept that our players don't have family emergencies, and if their partners have a kid, it doesn't stop them playing the match a few hours later. Or that we make it part of their contracts that they're only allowed to have sex 9 months before off-season, which would explain why my teams start the season so poorly.

[vikeologist]

On 03/10/2024 at 06:59, HUNT3R said:

I don't have much interest in the women's side of the sport, but I never considered this! Now I'm really hoping it's part of the game. I've never had a son, so now I can double the disappointment. 

I'm not sure whether you mean the disappointment of the 1-10,00 possibility occurring, or the crushing disappointment when it does and they have 1 star potential.

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

Now that I think about it, I'm curious if they have modelled in pregnancy and maternity leave in the game. And if so, will it vary by country?

Surely they'd have to do the former, but maybe not the latter to specific detail.  It'll probably be a relatively standard year out or something, as there probably wouldn't be a reliable standard maternity leave they could rely on.  It'll vary not just country-to-country, but probably club to club.  Having it be a condition they're out for 12-15 months (with some randomness thrown in for that range) is probably good enough to do.

3 minutes ago, vikeologist said:

Why would a woman need to go on holiday for 12 months? How long do you think maternity leave is?

Why's that so wild?  I'd imagine they'd want to stop playing pretty soon after finding out they're pregnant, maybe the 10-12 week mark (physical activity is fine particularly if you're already pretty active, but I imagine contact sports are still not particularly safe), then the rest of the pregnancy, and then whatever maternity leave they want to take.  In the US, obviously that maternity leave is about 5 minutes, but in more civilised nations it's often far longer, and would push it towards the year mark.  

[vikeologist]

8 hours ago, XV20 said:

 

2) little answers regarding how their personality/attributes affect them as players, do they take long holidays for no reason out of the blue..and so on

 

                               Fin

I'd be surprised if they're going to change the way personalities work. I think most people like the way that aspect of the game works. I'd be shocked if they had women interact in a different way from men, and especially if it matched this type of perception.

I think that the intention has always been that women's football will be different from men's in the match engine. if it is identical, what would be the point of the last 3 years?

[vikeologist]

25 minutes ago, forameuss said:

 

Why's that so wild?  I'd imagine they'd want to stop playing pretty soon after finding out they're pregnant, maybe the 10-12 week mark (physical activity is fine particularly if you're already pretty active, but I imagine contact sports are still not particularly safe), then the rest of the pregnancy, and then whatever maternity leave they want to take.  In the US, obviously that maternity leave is about 5 minutes, but in more civilised nations it's often far longer, and would push it towards the year mark.  

Yes, but the original comment was about managers, not players.

Anyway, there are actually FIFA rules on this.

Fifa unveils new maternity protocols for female players & coaches - BBC Sport

Sure, in a realistic simulation, players would take maternity leave. The thing is that AFAIK, the age of the manager in the game doesn't affect much. (I think it actually has zero effect, apart from not having a son appear below age 35), so coding anything age dependent for managers / coaches such as pregnancy would be a huge endeavour.

For players though, it is an interesting possibility. I think the argument against would be that it would be annoying for the game player to lose a player like this. It's ok in isolated cases such as S Korea military service, but spread across the whole game it might be annoying.

Alex Morgan gave birth in May 2020, and joined Tottenham the following September. Hard to say to what extent this is the norm though, especially since she was playing at an elite level. (So really I'd say definitely not typical).

Edited Friday at 09:05 by vikeologist

[-Jef-]

8 minutes ago, vikeologist said:

Why would a woman need to go on holiday for 12 months? How long do you think maternity leave is?

45 days before a child is due to be born is legal minimum here. 12-14 months after a child is born. That's for the first and second child. If you have twins or more kids then that goes up. For third kid and more that is 38 months in total after the birth. Despite all the corruption, it's a pretty great country  

 

A woman would need to go "on holiday" for 12 months because there can be complications with the kid and a woman can go into "pregnancy care" where she does not work(but still employed, cannot be fired) if the kid is endangered in any shape or form before it is born. That can range up to (iirc) 6 months before birth. So that's 6 months + 12 months after a child is born. That is mother's RIGHT to provide care for a child when the kid is at their most vulnerable. We've had pregnancy scares in our family. I was a child whose mother had to take unpaid leave for 3 years because I was that sick. 

[forameuss]

Just now, vikeologist said:

Yes, but the original comment was about managers, not players.

Anyway, there are actually FIFA rules on this.

Fifa unveils new maternity protocols for female players & coaches - BBC Sport

Sure, in a realistic simulation, players would take maternity leave. The thing is that AFAIK, the age of the manager in the game doesn't affect much. (I think it actually has zero effect), so coding anything age dependent for managers / coaches such as pregnancy would be a huge endeavour.

For players though, it is an interesting possibility. I think the argument against would be that it would be annoying for the game player to lose a player like this. It's ok in isolated cases such as S Korea military service, but spread across the whole game it might be annoying.

Missed the manager/player divide, apologies.  

8 minutes ago, vikeologist said:

I think that the intention has always been that women's football will be different from men's in the match engine. if it is identical, what would be the point of the last 3 years?

This.  I've seen so many comments that paint this as just a matter of getting the research, then going into the database and flicking Male to Female, but for something that's been worked on for 3 years (that we know of, likely even longer than that), I'd be amazed (not to mention incredibly disappointed) if there aren't significant differences between the two games.

[XaW]

49 minutes ago, vikeologist said:

Why would a woman need to go on holiday for 12 months? How long do you think maternity leave is?

In Norway, usually the last month before birth and for up to 12 months after birth (3 months less if the father is there to take his paternity leave and the mother takes all the shared days). It ca be taken out in chunks until the kid is 3 though. All paid too. So 12 months in not unheard of here, no. But various places have various set rules for this, I imagine, so would be interesting to see if/how it is in the game.

And I would assume pregnancy would stop players from playing matches at some point before just before birth...?

I'm specifically talking about players here, not managers.

[busngabb]

I probably won't be playing the women's part of the game, it doesn't interest me much. However I recognise the importance of it in general, it's great to get girls playing sport and having the same opportunities as boys. And anyone who does follow the women's game has the ability to play it, which is great.

However I do hope SI keep this realistic. I know they have mentioned seemless transitioning between the men's and women's game, but I largely don't want to see it happening at all. Have any established professional managers ever moved to the women's game and vice-versa? I certainly don't want to see Klopp or Pep managing a women's side as it's unrealistic. I also don't want to see half the new appointments in the men's game being from the women's game because their reputation has grown by being successful there.

If you dominate in the women's game, it shouldn't enable you to get a Premier League job for example. It might, might, get you a job in the National League or a minor league abroad if you have some status as a player when you setup the game, but until these kind of moves are happening in real life, I don't want to see them in the game.

[Zek]

1. What leagues are in the game?

2. Any differences between men's and women's ME?

3a. Finances - The finances of women's clubs are obviously much lower than men's, which also seems to show in-game as Fran Kirby has a transfer value of £16K-£40K (I know it's a WIP). The record transfer fee in women's football is reportedly £685,000. But will the finances be hard-coded to increase automatically as seasons progress? And if so, how much and fast?

3b. Fans - Will we see the stadiums filled with fans or is that another thing that will automatically grow in-game?

4. How are pregnancies and menstrual cycles handled in-game, if at all?

 

 

 

[Lord Rowell]

7 hours ago, busngabb said:

I probably won't be playing the women's part of the game, it doesn't interest me much. However I recognise the importance of it in general, it's great to get girls playing sport and having the same opportunities as boys. And anyone who does follow the women's game has the ability to play it, which is great.

However I do hope SI keep this realistic. I know they have mentioned seemless transitioning between the men's and women's game, but I largely don't want to see it happening at all. Have any established professional managers ever moved to the women's game and vice-versa? I certainly don't want to see Klopp or Pep managing a women's side as it's unrealistic. I also don't want to see half the new appointments in the men's game being from the women's game because their reputation has grown by being successful there.

If you dominate in the women's game, it shouldn't enable you to get a Premier League job for example. It might, might, get you a job in the National League or a minor league abroad if you have some status as a player when you setup the game, but until these kind of moves are happening in real life, I don't want to see them in the game.

I think the seamless transitioning refers to that you can move between the two game worlds as a human manager. I'm sure SI will have coded things to make AI managers move only in a realistic way.

Re. the first emboldened point, the closest I can think of is Phil Neville. He wasn't a manager but a high level coach I think at Everton and then Man Utd (both men's sides). He then became manager of England Women, then manager of Inter Miami (mens) - I think he has another job in MLS now but not sure where he is.

As for 2nd emboldened point, time will tell. I've read that Emma Hayes took the job for Women's National team USA to broaden her CV and with the experience and skill set she'll be able to demonstrate, may look at applying to manage in the men's game. As I said, time will tell, but there's no good reason why women shouldn't manage at a high level in mens football - after all men have been managing in the women's game since.... forever!

[Nobby_McDonald]

On 02/10/2024 at 12:24, -Jef- said:

I wonder if we will be able to have daughters since we've had chance to have sons in the game as well. Maybe sibling power duo?

My daughter plays for Stoke City Girls, so I hope the playable divisions go low enough to be able to add her to the Stoke City Women youth set up in the editor.

Edit: If I get FM25

Edited Friday at 21:16 by Nobby_McDonald