Last hard football manager game

[TheVerySpecialOne]

Hi, I remember playing older football managers and how hard it was and how there was a sense of accomplishment if I won anything or overachieved. In the newer fms, I guess to please wide audience and have more players play the game, I feel like, even though there are more things to do, the core game is easier. In FM 23 I took a team that was one of the worst in Croatian second division, and in a couple of years I was playing champions league. I tried FM 24 and I took Adana Demirspor, set the 4-2-3-1 default gegenpress tactic, made it even more demanding, brought some fast/strong players, and I am at the top of the table even though I should be fighting for staying in the league.

I think gegenpress is so op, just as fast players are, especially if they are fast and strong, and if they have a good jumping reach, it's easy mode. And if you manage to make a team that has these qualities and play gegenpress, you will win without making any other adjustments. Defending makes no sense.

I remember in some of the older FMs, I was playing with Olympiakos, and I had to use counter attacking strategy in some games, it brought me results, it made sense to go defensive and it paid of. In newer fms, there's no point in going defensive, even if one of your players get a red card.

What version would you say is the last one where it was hard to overachieve, where you had to invest more of your time and brain power to win games, and not just, gegenpress + fast players and that's it. FM 17, FM 14 or older?

Thanks!

[ds_61_1]

FM25? Completed it mate.

[Brentford Alan]

Play without using gegenpress - instantly more difficult and problem solved, no?

[Harryhi]

This is why I avoid gengenpress, personally. In fact once I feel achieved in one style of play, I move on to try something different to keep things challenging and fresh 

[TheVerySpecialOne]

But I am not happy with the response, just don't play gegenpress. It wasn't so OP before. To me that's like say, "you play racing games, well don't use 6th or 7th gear because that makes you too fast for the CPU", or, "you play basketball, don't shoot threes, CPU does not know how to defend it". I want to be able to use tools at my disposal without them braking the game. It's not even cheating, I don't even look for some op tactic on the internet, it's just, select gegenpress and you win. And I don't remember being it like that. I remember scouting the opposition, setting opposition instructions before the game etc, sometimes even playing mind games with other managers. I don't have to do that anymore.

[SPE3D]

1 hour ago, TheVerySpecialOne said:

But I am not happy with the response, just don't play gegenpress. It wasn't so OP before. To me that's like say, "you play racing games, well don't use 6th or 7th gear because that makes you too fast for the CPU", or, "you play basketball, don't shoot threes, CPU does not know how to defend it". I want to be able to use tools at my disposal without them braking the game. It's not even cheating, I don't even look for some op tactic on the internet, it's just, select gegenpress and you win. And I don't remember being it like that. I remember scouting the opposition, setting opposition instructions before the game etc, sometimes even playing mind games with other managers. I don't have to do that anymore.

I think you'll have to accept to not use gegenpress if you want to make this version of the game harder for yourself. 

I'm having loads of fun with FM 24 with some simple self-imposed rules. I'm in 2045 and still loving this save. 

Fm 24 is the most complete version of the game if you stick to some self-imposed rules.

[Harryhi]

2 hours ago, TheVerySpecialOne said:

But I am not happy with the response, just don't play gegenpress. It wasn't so OP before. To me that's like say, "you play racing games, well don't use 6th or 7th gear because that makes you too fast for the CPU", or, "you play basketball, don't shoot threes, CPU does not know how to defend it". I want to be able to use tools at my disposal without them braking the game. It's not even cheating, I don't even look for some op tactic on the internet, it's just, select gegenpress and you win. And I don't remember being it like that. I remember scouting the opposition, setting opposition instructions before the game etc, sometimes even playing mind games with other managers. I don't have to do that anymore.

It’s your choice. I find you can make FM as difficult or as easy as you wish. 

[Pafnus]

Match engine is same for ai and players. So fm is challanging game.

[sthptngomad76]

FM 2016 was quite challenging- I mean ultimately all are exploitable, But that in era felt it would take longer to start dominating

[Colossus]

They were never hard. I would actually say that they have become slightly harder in the last couple of years, but they were never hard. FM is a game which is as hard as you marek, that's why challenges like the Youth Academy, LLM or dafuge are as popular as they are.

 

But, in the end, I don't think that we ever hard a truly hard FM game

[SynergyIso7]

I play the game without using any of the presets and I make it as realistic as possible. I try my best to win every game but I don't always make the right decisions. If I'm winning a game 1-0 with 5 minutes to go and dropped from Attacking to Cautious/Defensive, I will draw or lose. If I stick to Attacking, I have a better chance of winning. In previous FM's switching mentality worked for me. In 24, I can't grasp it. 

[Jonthedon26]

They have definitely got harder! I am playing FM09 at the minute and it is really hard, so much so I am on the verge of getting sacked! Every save I have on recent FM's I massively overachieve!

[Defensive]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb Jonthedon26:

They have definitely got harder! I am playing FM09 at the minute and it is really hard, so much so I am on the verge of getting sacked! Every save I have on recent FM's I massively overachieve!

FM09 was easy as hell, i´m normally not good in FM but i won everything.

[Jonthedon26]

1 hour ago, Defensive said:

FM09 was easy as hell, i´m normally not good in FM but i won everything.

Maybe I am just terrible at it then haha. Pretty much every newer FM without the sliders I find way too easy, this I find hard, but I am enjoying it, it's a good challenge. 

[RandomGuy.]

The game difficulty doesn't change, you just get better (or worse) as you get older.

[Andrew Marines]

Il 11/10/2024 in 16:29 , Pafnus ha scritto:

Match engine is same for ai and players. So fm is challanging game.

This could be true if the AI could watch the match and make moves based on somethings it has seen but no, it doesn't. It's not

[busngabb]

On 11/10/2024 at 12:11, Brentford Alan said:

Play without using gegenpress - instantly more difficult and problem solved, no?

No, not at all. It's the balancing of the game that is the issue. In real life, if Sean Dyche played gegenpress and short, tippy-tappy football, Everton would concede tons of goals through playing out from the back and largely be terrible. They would only improve if they bought some more athletic, fitter and more technically capable players and they would take some almighty hammerings along the way. 

If you did the above in FM24, you'd likely finish 2nd or 3rd with Everton with the players they have now in season 1 and win the league every year after that given how unrealistically easy squad building is.

If you play the way the FM purists do and refuse to use tactics that are OP and refuse to make unrealistic signings, you are effectively just role playing rather than playing a game. If an RPG game makes it easy to use a certain skill to defeat an enemy, e.g earth magic, you'd use that for those enemies. You wouldn't refuse to use the things that work and try to play through the game using the default sword. The game should be balanced in a way that the tactical basis of the game is challenging but fair and squad building becomes easier the more successful you become. I think horses for courses should apply largely in FM. If you try to play gegenpress and tikitaka with low ability and low athelticism squads, you should get truly hammered, as you would in real life. You should have to use appropriate direct tactics that suit the squad, until such time as the players can be improved to match the ideal setup.

 

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, busngabb said:

No, not at all. It's the balancing of the game that is the issue. In real life, if Sean Dyche played gegenpress and short, tippy-tappy football, Everton would concede tons of goals through playing out from the back and largely be terrible. They would only improve if they bought some more athletic, fitter and more technically capable players and they would take some almighty hammerings along the way. 

If you did the above in FM24, you'd likely finish 2nd or 3rd with Everton with the players they have now in season 1 and win the league every year after that given how unrealistically easy squad building is.

If you play the way the FM purists do and refuse to use tactics that are OP and refuse to make unrealistic signings, you are effectively just role playing rather than playing a game. If an RPG game makes it easy to use a certain skill to defeat an enemy, e.g earth magic, you'd use that for those enemies. You wouldn't refuse to use the things that work and try to play through the game using the default sword. The game should be balanced in a way that the tactical basis of the game is challenging but fair and squad building becomes easier the more successful you become. I think horses for courses should apply largely in FM. If you try to play gegenpress and tikitaka with low ability and low athelticism squads, you should get truly hammered, as you would in real life. You should have to use appropriate direct tactics that suit the squad, until such time as the players can be improved to match the ideal setup.

 

We might actually get a decent real life experiment of this soon at the club is support.

St Johnstone under Craig Levein were a plodding possession based side this season with pressing from the front being a striker only thing with little help from midfield, but ship goals and always lose. Replacement manager Simo Valakari takes charge of his first game this weekend and previous clubs say he played a high pressing game resembling the Gegenpress.

It'll be mostly, if not entirely, the same group of players until January too.

[haregi7418]

Is gengen really that OP???

It probably just depends on the team you play

 

Li tried gengen with my usual 2nd div team and still got stomped