Joor Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 FM 09 isn't the only game this year which had lots of problem @ release. Let me show you a few game I brought this year which are filled with bugs and unplayable on my PC without any patch. 1. Grand Theft Auto IV 2. Farcry 2 3. Warhammer Online 4. Spore Tell me one game which were released with no bugs ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 WAR was hardly unplayable on launch day. In fact, was the 2nd smoothest mmo launch I've ever been a part of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joor Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 WAR was hardly unplayable on launch day. In fact, was the 2nd smoothest mmo launch I've ever been a part of. I was beta testing WAR, and no.. it was so unbalanced after release . Order was dominating due to bright wizard insane dmg output.. And lets not talk about all the CTD, massive memory leak etc etc. I was getting around 30 fps average with a gtx 280, 4 gb ram and intel Q@ 3800 mhz - ofc its much better now after several patches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDR Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Been said above and many times before, I know, but there's no such thing as a bug-free game on release. There's always something that's missed, and that's because human beings have produced it against a timeframe. Live with it or leave gaming alone, is the basic choice. At least there are patches now. Back when I was a kid (I'm 35 now) and even in my early 20s, you were stuck with whatever bugs were there, pretty much. If anyone still thinks this game is bug-ridden, SI don't care, or whatever BS I keep reading (no idea why), they ought to go and play Stalker: Clear Sky. They're on patch 1.5.7 or something now, and it's STILL a bug-ridden load of cr@p. Well, story's OK and it looks pretty, but it still has issues with the engine, etc. A note on 'freezing'. I think perhaps the teddy-chuckers are confusing a system 'freeze' with extra time needed for processing to set the game up (and graphic representations) on older/slower computers or those with certain limits on RAM and GFX cards. My system's getting on now. It really could do with yet another new GFX card and an processor/motherboard upgrade, so naturally I get some lag when going into graphical representation in 3D, and at odd times in the match. I know why it happens; I know it's going to happen. I can live with it, at least until I can afford to upgrade. I guess it's just easier for some to bash people who have done their best (and will continue to do so). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I've often thought i'd love to try WOW, but it would be insane to try and balance a family, work, FM, Civ and WOW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Civ4? we must play some time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I've often thought i'd love to try WOW, but it would be insane to try and balance a family, work, FM, Civ and WOW. Don't do it, WoW is for geeks only Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Civ4? we must play some time... I haven't played it in a long while, but Civ4 is right up there with FM as my favourite game. Despite being 25 I know nothing about computers or online gaming, so the concept of playing a game with someone who isn't in the same room as me baffles me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertle Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 To be fair I defend si a bit here its november as they know the transfers so database is upto date. Any later release means its half a season gone before people could play. However there is a down side that when a game needs bug fixes you could be seeing a situation that the finished article is only got six months play before the new version gets released. I know Mike7077 says it save compatible which is true but even SI advice long term games should be restarted as some features only work from a new start. So Mike is half right in this respect. I know some would feel it cheating if those bugs is to some sort of users benefit which is another reason many see new patch should be a new game start. Many use the waiting for patches to familiarise themselves with the game and build tactics. I have no issue about patching although this version there was some bad oversights like the text thing which should been seen and logged on first beta unless this only materalised after fixing another bug but seemed unlikely. To be fair it would absolutely be impossible for FM to come out bug free and every area get tested. How many clubs and staff/players are in the game. You soon realise YES we will always be SI testers. The chances are popular clubs will have lots of work but obscure ones there would have just randomly picked a few to test just to make sure it passes QC like picking a batch of in a factory. thats my 2 pence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I know Mike7077 says it save compatible which is true but even SI advice long term games should be restarted as some features only work from a new start. So Mike is half right in this respect. Are you sure? I was always under the impression that all fixes are enabled and the only thing you don't get is the data update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Are you sure? I was always under the impression that all fixes are enabled and the only thing you don't get is the data update. That's correct. I think it's just a precautionary thing that SI say starting anew guarantees you all the fixes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I think the recommendation to start again is to cover their arses incase something doesn't work. But I've never had any problems patching an existing save. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backpackant Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It will never be complete because too many people will have different opinions on it. Some see the bugs as making the game unplayable; I see them as minor irritations that hardly ever crop up. Some see the difficulty of the match engine and the need to be more tactically astute than previous editions as a bug; I see it as a new challenge (long shots etc). I won't say the game is perfect, of course. No game is. But FM09 is nowhere near as bad as some people are making out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sad Git Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 People go out an buy the game and end up pulling they hair out and yelling in frustrated rage at their screen, neighbours and dogs for the first month. Then when they complain about the product, the answer is "the patch is on the way" - as if that makes it okay. The answer that most winds me up is "It'll all be sorted out and work brilliantly in FM2010!" (or 11, or 12.) That's very encouraging to know when you've just spent full price buying the 15th version of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ant Farley Posted December 10, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted December 10, 2008 Stephen?!?! Just coming! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Its quite sad watching people stick up for SI when they really don't deserve it. Its not ok to release a game that has major bugs in it and just say "oh we'll fix it when we can" - that's absolute rubbish. No one expects games to be released bug free - but they certainly should NOT be released with major bugs and obvious problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Like the freezing, I don't think it is a bug, but just a combination of circumstances (Internet open, other applicaitons running, not the newest PC etc). I have a brand new PC which i bought just for FM09. I don't run any other applications while playing the game. Unnecessary services has been disabled. Yet, while it uses just maximum 2GB RAM and max 62% of the processor (q6700 now overclocked to 3.00GHz) it still lags and freezes. Fun part is that it doesn't matter if i run one league or, like now, all european leagues. So the game freezing might not be just the PC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micado Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I have a brand new PC which i bought just for FM09. I don't run any other applications while playing the game. Unnecessary services has been disabled. Yet, while it uses just maximum 2GB RAM and max 62% of the processor (q6700 now overclocked to 3.00GHz) it still lags and freezes. Fun part is that it doesn't matter if i run one league or, like now, all european leagues.So the game freezing might not be just the PC. So it has to be the game then? On my Toshiba Tecra S4 laptop with 2GB and a Quadro NVA 110M graphics card I have no problems at all (beside that 3D is a little bit slow, but that is because I don't meet the min. criteria for graphic cards) while I am running a dozen other applications at the same time (IE, Babylon, MS SQL server, NOkia PC suite). So what else can it be, old drivers, wrong dirvers? I have no idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Some compatability problems are being worked on for the next patch. Always worth updating drivers etc. though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancity12 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It isn't a game freeze issue, its meerly the Match engine loading. If you click a lot then it will look like its crashing. Its a known bug with Vista / XP. Not FM09. I would have thought EVERYBODY now used either XP or Vista :confused:. So what your saying it, SI used a ME that isnt compatible completely with XP or Vista? Also - It IS freezing, not loading. I left it 'loading' for a good 30 minutes whilst I went for a dump and it was still 'loading' when I got back. A quick check using task manager on CTR+ALT+DEL confirmed it wasn't responding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 No idea what it can be. All my drivers are up to date. My graphics card is a GeForce GTX 260 896MB so that is fine. The 3D is excellent. No problems whatsoever. It's just the processing between fixtures that vary a lot. Most of the times it takes at least 20-30 seconds to get to the next day with nothing going on (of course it takes a bit longer on my current game where i have all european leagues running, since things are happening all the time ), but sometimes it just flies by. Unfortunately that doesn't happen very often. My current game is my fourth game. Details are set on minimum. Still the processing isn't any different from the other games when i had less leagues running on minimum detail. I've posted quite a lot about this in other threads and so far it seems like it is a multicore problem. Although not all of the people with multicore computers seem to have that problem either. I have absolutely no idea what it is. Haven't really recieved or read an explanation yet that seem to highlight the real problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Some compatability problems are being worked on for the next patch.Always worth updating drivers etc. though. What kind of compatability problems is that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Don't know exactly, it's a broad sweeping statement that one of the devs said - there have been lots of psots from people saying the game is going slowly/feezing up/high cpu load, so I'd imagine they're addressing some of the issues in the next patch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkee Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I would have thought EVERYBODY now used either XP or Vista :confused:. So what your saying it, SI used a ME that isnt compatible completely with XP or Vista? Also - It IS freezing, not loading. I left it 'loading' for a good 30 minutes whilst I went for a dump and it was still 'loading' when I got back. A quick check using task manager on CTR+ALT+DEL confirmed it wasn't responding. When it is not responding (to Windows) the game is working. I am sure of that.You should try to optimize your multicore processor (if you have any) and also may be if you are overclocking processor, ram or graphic cards this could lead to freezing. For unexperienced overclockers: If you are overclocking your machine, do the tests of stability after it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Alright. Can't wait I mean, it's no problem playing the game. Enjoying it to the fullest, but it is a tad annyoing to know that i'm not using all my computers horse-powers on this game when i'm playing it Ah, well. Patience it is then. Cheers CaptinPlanet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 When it is not responding (to Windows) the game is working. I am sure of that.You should try to optimize your multicore processor (if you have any) and also may be if you are overclocking processor, ram or graphic cards this could lead to freezing. For unexperienced overclockers: If you are overclocking your machine, do the tests of stability after it. I've overclocked my CPU but luckily that seemed to help a little bit. You wouldn't happen to know where i could find a newbie guide or something similar to optimize my quad, would you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigguyinthesky Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I have a brand new PC which i bought just for FM09. I don't run any other applications while playing the game. Unnecessary services has been disabled. Yet, while it uses just maximum 2GB RAM and max 62% of the processor (q6700 now overclocked to 3.00GHz) it still lags and freezes. Fun part is that it doesn't matter if i run one league or, like now, all european leagues.So the game freezing might not be just the PC. i get not responding every now and again and the game lags sometimes but it only for a moment and goes away as soon as it appears. I thought i had the latest drivers as my computers new so i just popped onto the nvidia website and guess what i didn't so i downloaded and installed the latest driver and so far so good the lag and not responding seems to have gone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The freezing issue happens more on newer machines with Vista mostly - its a coding issue relating to the threading of multi-core machines. And yes, it is a game fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Alright. Any idea if they're trying to fix it in a patch or something, Wakers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Yes, they're trying to. Although not succeeding, from the very few updates they've given us. In fact, from the little information they have given us, they don't seem to have a clue what's causing it - some testers still laughably telling us to play in windowed mode to fix the problem - despite us telling them since the demo that we've been playing in windowed mode since the demo and it doesn't stop the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I see. Well now i know that then, and that's better than nothing. Best of luck to them in finding out. And i hope they do soon Thanks, Wakers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 No problem I have to say, if they actually spent some time every once in a while optimising the game and fixing minor issues, they wouldn't snowball into major problems like this. This is what you get when you try and expand a game year on year without doing the housekeeping first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Aggressive deadlines ftw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Lol. That's very true Wakers. By the way. What does ftw mean? I always think about my friend when i see that, since he always used to say F... The World:rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Aggressive deadlines ftw. They'll have released two patches in time for christmas - what was the point in releasing an unfinished/buggy game in November? Can anyone answer that properly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 They'll have released two patches in time for christmas - what was the point in releasing an unfinished/buggy game in November? Can anyone answer that properly? More people are enjoying the game now than everyone having to wait an extra month to play. Makes perfect sense to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 More people are enjoying the game now than everyone having to wait an extra month to play. Makes perfect sense to me. People won't not buy the game just because its delayed a month. People will avoid a game that has a reputation of being buggy/flawed, which sadly, FM is starting to get. Why have a half happy/half annoyed user base than a happier albeit slightly impatient user base? It doesn't make sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 People won't not buy the game just because its delayed a month. People will avoid a game that has a reputation of being buggy/flawed, which sadly, FM is starting to get.Why have a half happy/half annoyed user base than a happier albeit slightly impatient user base? It doesn't make sense. The sales figures so far disagree. And the deadline isn't dictated by SI, it's dictated most likely by Sega. Believe me, more people would be unhappy about it being released late than it being released early with a few bugs. There are only two gamebreaking bugs out of the box this year, injuries and serie C league. And SI and Sega will no doubt be the first to admit that it was far from ideal to release a game with those issues. But a the rest of bugs are minor enough for the game to be perfectly palyable for the majority of the playerbase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 They'll have released two patches in time for christmas - what was the point in releasing an unfinished/buggy game in November? Can anyone answer that properly? Mainly because it's a football game and you can't have a football game released that late. It's bad enough having a football game that starts in June/July released in November (but is necessary to allow inclusion of all transfers etc), but to have it released at Christmas would be ridiculous, half the season would be gone. Then there's market share, Sega's thinking is that they may lose customers if they release the game a lot later than their rivals. This may not be the case for some genre's but for perennial sports games it certainly is. On top of that there's the fact that many people, myself included, would rather be playing the game now (as in my case there is not a game spoiling bug present) than wait another 2 or 3 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko99 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 i agree no game would ever be released bug free, but the bugs in this game are too much. it makes you wonder what the (incompetent) TESTERS were testing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkee Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The sales figures so far disagree. And the deadline isn't dictated by SI, it's dictated most likely by Sega.Believe me, more people would be unhappy about it being released late than it being released early and then patchable. It is obvious, that this game is targeted for Christmas market. November is perfect month to release the game - all transfers are gathered and included and if it is patched properly before Christmas - it is an ideal gift. This is not about release time, it is about time when to start working on new version to prepare it without major bugs. SI needs better project manager, that is imho the reason. SI should hire me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 i agree no game would ever be released bug free, but the bugs in this game are too much. it makes you wonder what the (incompetent) TESTERS were testing. I love when people automatically blame the testers when they clearly have no idea about the game development process. Unless you actually know what you're talking about it might be better if you just don't say anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 lol, everyone thinks they can do a better job - it's all so simple from the outside or customer point of view. It's like people having a go at football manager "what does he think he's doing, he should OBVIOUSLY be playing so-and-so player in such-and-such a position, I could do that job blindfolded!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko99 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 lol, everyone thinks they can do a better job - it's all so simple from the outside or customer point of view. It's like people having a go at football manager "what does he think he's doing, he should OBVIOUSLY be playing so-and-so player in such-and-such a position, I could do that job blindfolded!" people wouldnt complain if one or two bugs slipped under the radar after released but a whole list of bugs is not good, so i think we have a right to question the testing process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 people wouldnt complain if one or two bugs slipped under the radar after released but a whole list of bugs is not good, so i think we have a right to question the testing process. Of course you have the right too, but unless it's done constructively what use does questioning it do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper99 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 people wouldnt complain if one or two bugs slipped under the radar after released but a whole list of bugs is not good, so i think we have a right to question the testing process. The trouble is that it's very difficult to distinguish actual bugs from things caused by the users PC or things that people simply don't like about the game. When I played Pro Evo 2008 I hated it. I hated the slowness of the games, the replays, and many other things. However none of these were bugs, they were simply things that I disliked. This is usually the case with many FM complaints. If you can list 10 genuine bugs that have nothing to do with the persons PC then I'll conceed that you may be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmywils Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 lol, everyone thinks they can do a better job - it's all so simple from the outside or customer point of view. It's like people having a go at football manager "what does he think he's doing, he should OBVIOUSLY be playing so-and-so player in such-and-such a position, I could do that job blindfolded!" I sympathise with the testers on certain issues/bugs. The match engine for instance can throw up so many possibilities of how you or the opposition can score goals, theres bound to be some issues that were not picked up However, the Serie C bug, as mentioned already, is a shocker and you dont really need any experience in testing to realise that it should have been picked up. Imagine that happening in the Premiership, Championship or to mirror Italy, Division 1. Same goes for the Polish League (Champions League bug) If these bugs were present in the English leagues, id bet my house wed have a quick fix patch weeks ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko99 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 players running away from ball standing still with ball at feet for sometimes 1min+ long shots ball hits post and bar too often corner cheat (still after last year FFS) injuries (still too many after DEMO) Seria C crash fa cup draws regionalised (eg UTD V CITY every year) champions league draw press conferences (get asked the same question 5 times in a row rivals playing same day (sheffield and old firm etc etc) i bet thers more i forgot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancity12 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 SI needs better project manager, that is imho the reason. SI should hire me Do you have the results in FM09 to back that up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It's not a SI thing, It's a general software thing. All games are full of bugs and hardly complete at launch. Since everyone has internet access most devs (mostly their publishers) push for release and have the game fixed with patches after release. Bad trend and is probably just gonna get worse. MMO's are all in beta state at release then they charge you for beta testing the first few months after release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.