The Sheffield United Project 09 - Discussion Thread

[RedBlueEagle]

I'm managing Palace and as Cleon advised I started with 2xMids with backwards arrows. First 3 friendlies were great and then we had 3x friendlies against much better teams. I hadn't tweaked anything and got thrashed. I won my last friendly against weak opposition.

I have replaced my entire back four. D.Grainger, S.Sodje, D.Stewart, L.Chambers

First game of the season home to Norwich I lose 1-0 after totally dominating. I only tweak I made before the game was set the Gk to team passing. During the game I changed the def line and went less attacking. Still dominated but no goals. I was also told by my assistant that their defence outnumbered our attack. I also noticed that crosses were flying across the box no where near anyone. They were set to aim for target man.

In the league cup I stuck with the same team but moved Burgess/Lee to target man box. I also changed formation to the same as yours (2 att mids). I comforatbly beat Brentford 2-1. They scored from their only shot.

Reading at home. I changed nothing, other than move Oster to my right wing instead of Ifill. 1-0 win. It was quite even and reading did beat out high def line a few times but my speedy defs caught up and tackled back.

I do use OIs as instructed by the assistant.

It's easy on paper but i am still struggling to work out the best thing to do during games. Hopefully a few more reads of this thread will help me. Next up Barnsley away. let's see how this goes.

[mag man]

Now morale has dropped and went on a non-winning run.

Home vs Burnley 1-1

Away vs Southampton lost 2-1

Home vs Norwich 1-1

Away vs Swansea 2-2, was 2-0 up and cruising would have tweaked here normally.

Away vs Blackpool 1-1

Home vs Sheff Utd 0-0

Home vs Watford won 1-0, got lucky Watford had a red card early on and dominated from there.

Some of the players have lost confidence in my ability :confused:

[kennec]

gr8 read cleon

very usefull thread. back to basics for sure.i played some net games lately and some players change there tactics after each loss and fiddle with the mentality creative freedom bars for hours per seson.

i got 2 questions

1. i dont see u mention creative freedom in your sticky thread anywhere for your players. do u use the deffoult values for the tactic still ? wich means very low for cd,gk,dmc average for fb and the midfield have middle or little higher ? do u ever change these settings or plan to change em ?

2. do u ever change settings for your lonely striker ? i see u have pacey strikers but if u would for example bring in a towering striker like pognebyrak wich soon is avaible for your team when clubrep and transfers funds raise would u still keep em ? , or how would u set them different ?

with latest patch i have noticed strong towering strikers are way less effective. the dont make goals or assists and it dont feel like they contribute to team as much as pacey ones wich destroy defense lines with their runs. care to comment on that?

[Cleon]

gr8 read cleon

very usefull thread. back to basics for sure.i played some net games lately and some players change there tactics after each loss and fiddle with the mentality creative freedom bars for hours per seson.

i got 2 questions

1. i dont see u mention creative freedom in your sticky thread anywhere for your players. do u use the deffoult values for the tactic still ? wich means very low for cd,gk,dmc average for fb and the midfield have middle or little higher ? do u ever change these settings or plan to change em ?

2. do u ever change settings for your lonely striker ? i see u have pacey strikers but if u would for example bring in a towering striker like pognebyrak wich soon is avaible for your team when clubrep and transfers funds raise would u still keep em ? , or how would u set them different ?

with latest patch i have noticed strong towering strikers are way less effective. the dont make goals or assists and it dont feel like they contribute to team as much as pacey ones wich destroy defense lines with their runs. care to comment on that?

1) Everything is default atm unless I've stated other wise. I've not spent too long adapting the tactic as I plan on going 442 or something simliar for season three. Just because I have that much attacking talent it's unreal, so I need to utilise them more in the third season.

2) I have two strikers, 1 who is basically a slow targetman then the second is a fast targetman. I change my mind all the time of which I prefer though, sometimes I prefer just a fast striker then in another game I change my mind yet again and prefer just a TM type. It's all about preference really and both have advantages.

As for the big type of strikers not contributing or scoring thats not true at all, I probably could get a slow big striker scoring more than a pacy striker in the current match engine. If a big striker isn't working for you then either his settings just don't suit him or the midfield don't support him enough to get him involved.

[Cleon]

I'm managing Palace and as Cleon advised I started with 2xMids with backwards arrows. First 3 friendlies were great and then we had 3x friendlies against much better teams. I hadn't tweaked anything and got thrashed. I won my last friendly against weak opposition.

I have replaced my entire back four. D.Grainger, S.Sodje, D.Stewart, L.Chambers

First game of the season home to Norwich I lose 1-0 after totally dominating. I only tweak I made before the game was set the Gk to team passing. During the game I changed the def line and went less attacking. Still dominated but no goals. I was also told by my assistant that their defence outnumbered our attack. I also noticed that crosses were flying across the box no where near anyone. They were set to aim for target man.

In the league cup I stuck with the same team but moved Burgess/Lee to target man box. I also changed formation to the same as yours (2 att mids). I comforatbly beat Brentford 2-1. They scored from their only shot.

Reading at home. I changed nothing, other than move Oster to my right wing instead of Ifill. 1-0 win. It was quite even and reading did beat out high def line a few times but my speedy defs caught up and tackled back.

I do use OIs as instructed by the assistant.

It's easy on paper but i am still struggling to work out the best thing to do during games. Hopefully a few more reads of this thread will help me. Next up Barnsley away. let's see how this goes.

OI's are probably your downfall, they override every settings you've made. So if you give players OI's and there not upto the job of carrying them out that can be a problem. Also if you use OI's it disrupts your balance and can make people out of position a lot. It's why I steer clear of them 99% of time.

[RedBlueEagle]

Cleon? Please can you confirm that after the Man Utd game (1st game), the changes you made for Everton were to the default tactic (i.e. Mentality already att but moved to even more att by 2 clicks)?

Secondly, are your wingers still set to cross to the target man even though you haven't dragged one across?

Thirdly, Do you like the high closing down of the full backs? It seems too high to me and the full backs are getting dragged out of position.

Lastly (for now ;-)), Do you change your tactic during the game to everything the assistant says? closing down for individuals players (i.e. sodje is used to closing down more, Grainger is used to more direct passing)

[mag man]

1) Everything is default atm unless I've stated other wise. I've not spent too long adapting the tactic as I plan on going 442 or something simliar for season three. Just because I have that much attacking talent it's unreal, so I need to utilise them more in the third season.

I always thought you were a fan of 1-up-top formations

[Cleon]

Cleon? Please can you confirm that after the Man Utd game (1st game), the changes you made for Everton were to the default tactic (i.e. Mentality already att but moved to even more att by 2 clicks)?

Secondly, are your wingers still set to cross to the target man even though you haven't dragged one across?

Thirdly, Do you like the high closing down of the full backs? It seems too high to me and the full backs are getting dragged out of position.

Lastly (for now ;-)), Do you change your tactic during the game to everything the assistant says? closing down for individuals players (i.e. sodje is used to closing down more, Grainger is used to more direct passing)

All the changes are to the tactic that I started each game with. So for the Man Utd game that would have been the default from season one. Then the Everton game would have been changed from the tactic I started against Man Utd. Remember that any changes in game are not saved to the tactic when you leave and it reverts back to the tactic you had set up prior to the game (unless you save it while in game).

Wingers will still be set to that yeah unless I've stated otherwise.

The closing down can be high at times but I like closing down high up and is a risk I take due to how I play.

And no I don't change anything my assistant says once I'm happy with my tactic. The thing is all tactics have strengths and weakness and you'd always be tweaking constantly for the full 90 minutes if you listened to every word he said. Plus he'll always have something to moan about your never not going to have him give you advice. While some of his advice can be used I prefer to use my own judgements, if I change to what he says then I'm not playing the style I want to. After all he doesn't know how I want to play only I do.

[Cleon]

I always thought you were a fan of 1-up-top formations

I am normally, but when you got 2 or 3 quality striker its hard to just play 1. I'll probably end up 352 yet anyways:D

[mag man]

I am normally, but when you got 2 or 3 quality striker its hard to just play 1. I'll probably end up 352 yet anyways:D

Id be very interested to see a 3-5-2 I tried to develop one but I am a bit lost as to how to setup the wingbacks/wingers.

[mag man]

Just read the Newcastle game. Just 1 question, what was the reasoning for playing short and slow? Its a great start to the season BTW.

[Cleon]

Just read the Newcastle game. Just 1 question, what was the reasoning for playing short and slow? Its a great start to the season BTW.

To keep possession basically as I didn't know what to expect from them. So to be safe I thought short and slow was my best option.

[mag man]

With the Spurs game if you could replay it differently do you think you would win, or are there just sometimes a game you cant win?

[Cleon]

With the Spurs game if you could replay it differently do you think you would win, or are there just sometimes a game you cant win?

At home I'd beat them, away I just always seem to lose for some reason. Everyone has a team they always struggle against no matter what though and Spurs is that side for me

I'd still play the same way though as I felt that the settings were good enough to beat them. When I've started so well I guess a bad result was always waiting to happen.

[jascko]

Now when you guys mentioning 3-5-2, I m experimenting with the formation that Cleon use much on 08. Its a kind of 3-4-3 or 3-2-2-2-1 if you want, I m pretty sure Cleon knows what kind of formation I m talking about. It has 2 wingbacks, 2 CMs, 2 wingers and 1 striker. I had god results on 08 with this formation and decide to try it on 09. Didnt managed to make this formation to work as I want. It looks I get punished on central midfield as both my CMs plays support role. I have to tweek this one more than I was prepared to. On 08 I have ability to make wingers as a strikers because of the inside arrows. I dont have that kind of possibility in 09. It will be tough one.

[Cleon]

Now when you guys mentioning 3-5-2, I m experimenting with the formation that Cleon use much on 08. Its a kind of 3-4-3 or 3-2-2-2-1 if you want, I m pretty sure Cleon knows what kind of formation I m talking about. It has 2 wingbacks, 2 CM, 2 wingers and 1 striker. I had god results on 08 with this formation and decide to try it on 09. Didnt managed to make this formation to work as I want. It looks I get punished on central midfield as both my CM plays support role. I have to tweek this one more than I was prepared to. On 08 I have ability to make wingers as a strikers because of the inside arrows. I dont have that kind of possibility in 08. It will be tough one.

They key is to find 2 wingers with good pace, accelearation, flair and creativity. Then give them very high CF and it works wonders, especially if you ask them to switch positions. That's how I got the Syrup and Honey tactic to work for FM09.

[mag man]

Was the Villa game 0-0 you never said

Great result against Fulham, from the stats looks like a close game.

I loved the syrup and honey tactic

[higgins]

OI's are probably your downfall, they override every settings you've made. So if you give players OI's and there not upto the job of carrying them out that can be a problem. Also if you use OI's it disrupts your balance and can make people out of position a lot. It's why I steer clear of them 99% of time.

I agree with that, OI, especially if you target too many of your opponents , could ruin your asset, I think they could be useful if you target only one particular player, to cut him out of the game.

Otherwise could be really dangerous for your side.

[Cleon]

Was the Villa game 0-0 you never said

Great result against Fulham, from the stats looks like a close game.

I loved the syrup and honey tactic

Sorry yeah 0-0.

I was determined not to let Fulham peg me back:D

I agree with that, OI, especially if you target too many of your opponents , could ruin your asset, I think they could be useful if you target only one particular player, to cut him out of the game.

Otherwise could be really dangerous for your side.

Completley agree:thup:

[mag man]

Good result away against Man City. They are my bogey team on 09.

[jascko]

They key is to find 2 wingers with good pace, accelearation, flair and creativity. Then give them very high CF and it works wonders, especially if you ask them to switch positions. That's how I got the Syrup and Honey tactic to work for FM09.

So you try it on 09. I thought you would. It was great formation on 08. Did you make both your 2 CMs as a support with mix FWR or did you have one holding CM? It looks I m struggeling on central midfield against formations wich use more then 2 players on midfield. I just loose the battle on midfield. I tried with wingbacks on FWR-often to give my CMs more support, didnt help much. I m just unsure who will play defend role, who will supporting and who will only attack.

[Cleon]

So you try it on 09. I thought you would. It was great formation on 08. Did you make both your 2 CMs as a support with mix FWR or did you have one holding CM? It looks I m struggeling on central midfield against formations wich use more then 2 players on midfield. I just loose the battle on midfield. I tried with wingbacks on FWR-often to give my CMs more support, didnt help much. I m just unsure who will play defend role, who will supporting and who will only attack.

I had them both defensive this time to allow my fullbacks and wingers to very attacking.

[brendanbrendanbren]

This thread is fb! Has helped me so much with my game and upon reading went on a 6 game winning streak without conceding, (as Pompey), then went to Stamford Bridge they had Belletti off after 2 mins so i fancied it, I went defensive and soaked up all their pressure and hit them on the counter time and time again, I had 5 CCC's coming upto 80 minutes and they hadn't had one, then for no reason I lost patience, got greedy and went attacking and CHelsea go straight up and score winning the game 1-0.

Gutted haha, still a learning experience and stick to your guns! I had 3 times the amount of shots they did too

[mag man]

Im looking forward to the opposition getting a red card to see how you take advantage.

[Cleon]

This thread is fb! Has helped me so much with my game and upon reading went on a 6 game winning streak without conceding, (as Pompey), then went to Stamford Bridge they had Belletti off after 2 mins so i fancied it, I went defensive and soaked up all their pressure and hit them on the counter time and time again, I had 5 CCC's coming upto 80 minutes and they hadn't had one, then for no reason I lost patience, got greedy and went attacking and CHelsea go straight up and score winning the game 1-0.

Gutted haha, still a learning experience and stick to your guns! I had 3 times the amount of shots they did too

Haha I do things like that as well. I'm very impatient as a rule

Im looking forward to the opposition getting a red card to see how you take advantage.

I find it tricky, teams normally start playing amazing when they lose a player. Depending on who they sub and bring on it can still be as hard.

[jascko]

I had them both defensive this time to allow my fullbacks and wingers to very attacking.

Will try that. Thanks mate.

[mag man]

Some excellent results there, probably going to jinx you now

I found that the 451 attacking tweaked is very strong defensively, lots of 1-0s like you to start with then as the season developed I started getting bigger score lines. (This was with my premier league side not QPR)

[Guevara]

How many of your results would you say have been lucky wins Cleon?

[furlo2007]

Cleon really struggling not winning to many games and in relegation zone seem to have lots of the play always on top possession wise without really creating to much my 2 attacking midfielders struggling with poor ratings

[Cleon]

How many of your results would you say have been lucky wins Cleon?

Not many in all honesty if you look at the stats more closely from my games.

Cleon really struggling not winning to many games and in relegation zone seem to have lots of the play always on top possession wise without really creating to much my 2 attacking midfielders struggling with poor ratings

Mine have poor games as well, luckily I got 6 to choose from and seem to have found the right two to play there now.

[mag man]

Unlucky with the Chelsea result, looks like you did well to only lose 1-0 Im loving the amount of updates your doing today.

[Cleon]

Unlucky with the Chelsea result, looks like you did well to only lose 1-0 Im loving the amount of updates your doing today.

That's probably it for today now

[mag man]

wow I didnt realise had been 18 games already Ive never heard of half the players you have.

[joebanks10]

Cleon would you mind showing where you sold all of the original Sheff Utd squad to? how much you recieved etc? and also does your method work with the original players as i am a Blade and i like to try and keep hold of the majority of the first team squad at least for the first season or so.

[JackDavies]

Hey cleon just a quicky

In your blackburn game you say " i went to the last notch of defence (mentality slider)" is this the last notch towards the left (1 more and its ultra) or to the right

[bieritarier]

Great results here, the Chelsea game was unlucky.. Chelski and Tottenham are teams I found out are best countered by playing defensively and with very quick tempo/direct passing. That got me a 3-0 win as Stamford Bridge, a 4-1 against Spurs at home and a minute ago another 4-1 against Tottenham in the Euro Cup final . Moreover I really feel that players tend to convert better if the team plays defensive. I only had 8 shots against Spurs but scored 3 (the fourth was an own goal. They scored from the spot on 88 mins when it was 4-0 already

[RedBlueEagle]

Please could you do me a favour and stick a couple of screenshots up of your team settings for when you are confident of winning against. Like the Everton game.

I guess I am confused as I didn't think you saved your tactics so if you made tweaks for the Everton game they would have been from the default and not the one used against Man Utd.

I am getting there slowly as I am noticing things during the games. The problem is I am too scared to change things.

How would you deal with a team that is dominating possesion and chances? My guess would be do your Man Utd thing and go normal (not too defensive), narrower and raise the tempo?

--- I have just read your latest results in the main thread. Am i right in saying that everytime you tweak your tactic pre-match, the tactic is saved and thus in effect your tactic is constantly changing, ever so slightly, to become more agressive as your reputation improves?

[Skoolblowsme]

What I find interesting is that Arsenal is running rampant in your save

In my save they NEVER slip up. THey are first by 4 with 3 games left, I play them last game of the season, Champs Lge Final, and FA Cup Final

[Cleon]

Cleon would you mind showing where you sold all of the original Sheff Utd squad to? how much you recieved etc? and also does your method work with the original players as i am a Blade and i like to try and keep hold of the majority of the first team squad at least for the first season or so.

I'll be starting a thread in the GPTG forum when I finish the season to talk about my squad more. I'll be covering the original squad too. But yes this method works with the original squad.

Hey cleon just a quicky

In your blackburn game you say " i went to the last notch of defence (mentality slider)" is this the last notch towards the left (1 more and its ultra) or to the right

1 before ultra would be the first notch:D

Please could you do me a favour and stick a couple of screenshots up of your team settings for when you are confident of winning against. Like the Everton game.

I guess I am confused as I didn't think you saved your tactics so if you made tweaks for the Everton game they would have been from the default and not the one used against Man Utd.

I don't save the tactic, so if I make a change before a game then the next game will be tweaked from that and so on.

I am getting there slowly as I am noticing things during the games. The problem is I am too scared to change things.

What you scared of? worse case scenario if you'll lose.

How would you deal with a team that is dominating possesion and chances? My guess would be do your Man Utd thing and go normal (not too defensive), narrower and raise the tempo?

You mean a team who are dominating all over and you've not got a look in? I'd probably do the changes from the Man Utd game and work from that.

--- I have just read your latest results in the main thread. Am i right in saying that everytime you tweak your tactic pre-match, the tactic is saved and thus in effect your tactic is constantly changing, ever so slightly, to become more agressive as your reputation improves?

I never save the tactic so yes it always changes each time I make a change before a game. I always work from whatever the tactic was at the beginning of the last game. As changes made in the game are never saved and the game always puts your pre match tactic back to normal unless you save it in game.

Cleared up for you?

[Cleon]

What I find interesting is that Arsenal is running rampant in your save

In my save they NEVER slip up. THey are first by 4 with 3 games left, I play them last game of the season, Champs Lge Final, and FA Cup Final

It's always different each time I start a new save. The same teams rarely dominates every new game you find normally as a rule. Especially in England as there are a few teams who can win the league.

[JackDavies]

1 before ultra would be the first notch:D

I thought that was the case, just checking

[RedBlueEagle]

I think I am with you on the changes you make. You make changes before you hit 'submit'. I used to always make minor changes afterwards so I had a template to go back to and if they worked, saved them. The only problem I have found with your thread is, unless you follow the thread in its entirity you won't know what base you are tweaking the sliders from. (unless of course you say last click of defensive ;-))

One thing that may be missing is, what do you view as the ideal way of playing for you? After 3-4 seasons when the Blades are in Europe and you can buy anyone you wish, how do you want Sheffield United to play so that you have to make minimal changes apart from against very defensive or teams of your equal? I guess you like direct and fairly fast.

[Cleon]

I think I am with you on the changes you make. You make changes before you hit 'submit'. I used to always make minor changes afterwards so I had a template to go back to and if they worked, saved them. The only problem I have found with your thread is, unless you follow the thread in its entirity you won't know what base you are tweaking the sliders from. (unless of course you say last click of defensive ;-))

Well it should be pretty simple to follow as I say how many notches etc. If your doing it yourself by all means save after each change but I don't play that way. All I am doing is showing how I play

One thing that may be missing is, what do you view as the ideal way of playing for you? After 3-4 seasons when the Blades are in Europe and you can buy anyone you wish, how do you want Sheffield United to play so that you have to make minimal changes apart from against very defensive or teams of your equal? I guess you like direct and fairly fast.

I'll probably play with all 10 outfield players on attacking mentality with a high tempo maybe? Hopefully I'll be able to show you especially season 3 if I can manage the Champions League spot.

[RedBlueEagle]

I think I need to change the way I play FM200x then. I thought you were playing with a default tactic and tweaking it one way or the other depending on the opposition or how good you thought you were. In effect the tactics are constantly growing with the team with tweaks but progressively more attacking.

One last question before I leave you in peace (sorry but you are far too helpful and far too responsive, thanks). Do you closely link your def line to your mentality? When should i start being more direct (against defensive or attacking teams)?

[Cleon]

I think I need to change the way I play FM200x then. I thought you were playing with a default tactic and tweaking it one way or the other depending on the opposition or how good you thought you were. In effect the tactics are constantly growing with the team with tweaks but progressively more attacking.

One last question before I leave you in peace (sorry but you are far too helpful and far too responsive, thanks). Do you closely link your def line to your mentality? When should i start being more direct (against defensive or attacking teams)?

I started off with the default but now it's different since the start of season two. I don't have a set tactic now as I tend to alter instructions based on what I've wrote. So yeah it is progressing game by game but that doesn't always mean more attacking. I just make it the best tactic I can on a game by game basis. Rather than trying to have 1 tactic for all situations.

As for the last bit yeah. If I go attacking then I should make the d-line push up unless I want to leave a gap to entice the opposition to come forward more. This is more suited for teams who park the bus in front of goal, I often leave it normal so they attack me more.

[Cleon]

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=2419961#post2419961 More info about my squad

[Paggioram]

Cleon, For the team instructions do you start with the base as in everthing in the middle of the sliders and then change according to game?

[Cleon]

Cleon, For the team instructions do you start with the base as in everthing in the middle of the sliders and then change according to game?

No I started with the default tactic, so whatever settings that uses I started with that for the Man Utd game. Then I change according to the game.

[Paggioram]

So after every game it reverts back to default. You change for the match just after you do team talks then? This was something I was a little confused with cheers

[Cleon]

Any changes I make before a game are done so before confirming my squad etc. These changes then stay until I next tweak the tactic for the game after. Any changes done inside the game don't get saved and the tactic reverts back to the pre match one.