W-M Discussion Thread. An attempt to recreate the historical formation.

[higgins]

Ehi mag-man I hope you'll update this soon.

I was really thinking to start my own WM tactic, not sure however who should I be, I could choose a weaker side and see how it could works.

Just some thoughts:

I read you're having gaps between attacking and defensive units, I think this is due to the shape of WM that leave the middle of the pitch uncovered (at least in FM) and to the mentality framework you chose, you could try a more staggered mentality system instead of 5x5 rule, otherwise I was thinking to go global, from what I read WM was based on lots of short passes and great teamwork, so a global mentality could be the right choice to recreate this.

What do you think about that?

You talked about having your defenders on normal mentality and low closing down, not sure about that, I think it could be dangerous.

The holy grail about that issue is find a good balance among the d-line, your mentality system and your closing down instructions.

As I said before, from my experience, it's advisable to tweak the d-line for some matches, but the lesser evil could be starting with a d-line set in the middle if you have built a balanced tactic.

[RossoneriGunner]

When I started the WM formation I played around with the mentalities until I had the defence, midfield and attack supporting each other, which meant that my players were not playing long balls to reach each other which I find can lose you a lot of possession, also I found that you need 2 very good DMC's. My defensive players were on short passing, my AM's were on mixed and Att's on direct and I found a nice balance all round, but it does take a little bit of experimenting to get them to play as you want. Also I always play my d-line depending on what my oppo's play. I found that if they play 4-2-3-1, I push up a lot and with tight zonal marking with their lone forward 'man marked' and it tended to stop all their AM's and FWD's playing because they did not have the space to pass the ball around. So I find really tactics is like 'suck it and see'.

[mag man]

Got an update to come over the weekend, I have made quite a few changes and it appears a lot more solid.

[weeeman27bob]

I'm going to try and make a version of this myself.

Think I might start with a big Euro team maybe Milan, Inter, Barca or Real Madrid.

[higgins]

Got an update to come over the weekend, I have made quite a few changes and it appears a lot more solid.

Ehi mag-man, inspired by your thread I'm tryng to develop my own WM tactic, mine is based on the formation used by the Italian football team "Grande Torino", from 1943 to 1949.

Hopefully we'll be able to exchange some useful infos regarding this experiment.

[Manager23]

Hi all i just started a game with chelsea and tried this tactics for two games.

i won both 4-0 and 2-0. theres something i wanna ask the 2nd game which i had was against burnley and they played a 3-5-2

in the first half both teams cant dominate much at all and in the 2nd half my team score two late goals and won it 2-0.

how can i dominate against a 3-5-2?

[mag man]

I'm going to try and make a version of this myself.

Think I might start with a big Euro team maybe Milan, Inter, Barca or Real Madrid.

Good luck with that, when it works its fantastic to watch

Ehi mag-man, inspired by your thread I'm tryng to develop my own WM tactic, mine is based on the formation used by the Italian football team "Grande Torino", from 1943 to 1949.

Hopefully we'll be able to exchange some useful infos regarding this experiment.

Cool, how is it going so far? I havent had much time to play recently but am hoping to get some in this weekend.

Hi all i just started a game with chelsea and tried this tactics for two games.

i won both 4-0 and 2-0. theres something i wanna ask the 2nd game which i had was against burnley and they played a 3-5-2

in the first half both teams cant dominate much at all and in the 2nd half my team score two late goals and won it 2-0.

how can i dominate against a 3-5-2?

I havent face a 3-5-2 yet so not sure how to dominate it, I would expect the W-M to destroy it though because you would overload their defence.

[higgins]

Cool, how is it going so far? I havent had much time to play recently but am hoping to get some in this weekend.

I'd say well, have a look at my thread, I'm still testing but I like the way this tactic let me counter-attack without having CA box ticked, it's a joy to watch, sometimes 3 passes and we score!

[mag man]

I'd say well, have a look at my thread, I'm still testing but I like the way this tactic let me counter-attack without having CA box ticked, it's a joy to watch, sometimes 3 passes and we score!

I just had a read of it, will post some comments soon. It does counter brilliantly

[mag man]

W-M Update

I no longer have the time to pay football manager much (just started a new job) but I am still cracking on with my re-creation of the W-M formation.

Major changes made:

- I have now ditched the 5x5 mentality system as it creates a to big gap in the midfield.

- I am playing on narrow rather than normal.

Current experimentation's:

- I am experimenting with play through the middle.

- I am considering using a target man.

About the Formation:

Shape:

I am still using the traditional W-M shape. I have forward runs often on my AMC's and also my striker. I have no forward runs on DMC and DC. The rest of the players are on mixed.

Team Settings:

Everything is now on normal apart from narrow width, quick tempo and short passing.

Mentality System:

I am now using a "role theory" based system now. This is mainly because I want to maximise the use of the magic square. So now the 4 midfielders are all high-normal mentality. The 3 defensive players are on normal and the 3 attacking players are on attacking.

This system now keeps all my players a lot closer together, this means the passing is quicker and short as my settings want it. There is also less space for the oppostion to exploit.

Results:

Well with the changes made I am a lot tighter in defence, this has probably sacrificed some of my attacking power but my style of play is a lot more balanced now. With the current changes I have won 2 games, vs Everton 2-0 and vs PSV 3-0. In those two games I have completely dominated shots on goal, with the opposition only threating from long range. Domination of possession has decreased however.

Once I am happy with what I have I will post more details about the individual player settings and will update the OP.

[higgins]

I was considering to set a targetman me too.

The central striker or maybe one of the wingers....or maybe the one with the softer opponent!

[mag man]

I was considering to set a targetman me too.

The central striker or maybe one of the wingers....or maybe the one with the softer opponent!

I was going to use it with run onto ball on the central striker, I dont seem to get enough balls played in behind even though both my AMC's have try through balls often.

[higgins]

I was going to use it with run onto ball on the central striker, I dont seem to get enough balls played in behind even though both my AMC's have try through balls often.

True, my striker receives the ball only from the flanks, let me know if as target ma he could be more involved in the game.

Only one of my Amc has been instructed to ttb often and only for home games, otherwise my amc's are on ttb mixed.

That way I retain the ball more from what I saw.

[mag man]

My most recent game

- I have made so many changes but I am slowly getting happier with my formation.

- I have tightened up defensively without sacrificing to much of my attack.

- I still havent finished tweaking my defence however and think I can make it a lot stronger.

[mag man]

So I have finished the season, I was pretty happy with my final formation. I finished 2nd behind a Man U side who only lost 1 game (me at Old Trafford ) and most of my losses were at the beginning of the season whilst I was changing a lot.

I played about 10 games without any major changes to my tactic and I think it may be complete. I will play through a whole season without changing it (only minor tweaks) to see how it performs.

Lampard as AMC.

[blomqvist23]

amazing could you upload this tactic please?

[mag man]

amazing could you upload this tactic please?

Its not yet finished, I am going to test it for another season and then I will see what I will do with it.

[Manager23]

Is it possible i can make individual setting for my left wing striker? i just got in giovinco and i wanna play him to cut in and score. gonna follow the settings in some of the threads that show settings for ronaldo and messi wingers cutting in.

[mag man]

I would set cross balls to mixed or rarely same for through balls. Maybe give him a free role?

I use Anelka on the left sometimes and he cuts in and gets a lot of goals.

[RossoneriGunner]

Hi mag man, I have come back to WM formation, got bored with 442 and after watching my Arsenal team playing some lovely football with a WM formation thrown together, I have decided to set it up properly. I noticed you said you are using the 'Role Theory', so did you set it up in defensive, standard or attacking match strategy before tweaking it?. I was thinking of using the defensive strategy for the M and attacking strategy for the W. My 2 DMC's are Veloso and Fazio, so I am going to set Veloso as a DMC'a and my 2 AMC's at the moment are Nasri and Fabregas and I want to use Fabregas as a AMC'd and making him link up with Veloso in midfield and using Fabregas as a playmaker...I would value your opinion and if anyone else has any thoughts then fire away

[Intercept]

Okay I've decided to throw myself into the deep end and try this tactic. I'm going to use Chelsea as well (as they are my favourite team and I really feel like giving them a go after spending the last 6 seasons in the Serie A with Roma).

Only really one question I have to ask, is if you have set Lampard and Deco onto Long Shot's often or mixed. I have played 5 friendlies so far with them on mixed and they just don't seem to like taking the shots, rather looking to pass the ball around looking for my wider players or my striker.

Otherwise I'm going along slowly trying things myself and will eventually update with screenshots as to what and how I'm doing! Just wanted to know how you were managing Lampard and Deco (or the two AMC's).

[RossoneriGunner]

Hi Intercept, I have Nasri and Fabregas/Arshavin and they are set on mixed. There is another thread which is worth a look and is linked closely to this one, which was started by Higgins......http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=109155

[mag man]

Just a quick reply as I am at work.

Hi mag man, I have come back to WM formation, got bored with 442 and after watching my Arsenal team playing some lovely football with a WM formation thrown together, I have decided to set it up properly. I noticed you said you are using the 'Role Theory', so did you set it up in defensive, standard or attacking match strategy before tweaking it?. I was thinking of using the defensive strategy for the M and attacking strategy for the W. My 2 DMC's are Veloso and Fazio, so I am going to set Veloso as a DMC'a and my 2 AMC's at the moment are Nasri and Fabregas and I want to use Fabregas as a AMC'd and making him link up with Veloso in midfield and using Fabregas as a playmaker...I would value your opinion and if anyone else has any thoughts then fire away

I just used a role theory mentality, the back 3 are normal, the midfield 4 are on high normal and the front 3 are on attacking. This just keep the players close together and allow my magic square (midfield 4) to play good simple short passing game.

I actually have my 2 DMC's with matching settings, I use M. Diarra/Mikel and Essien so both decent footballers who can defend. Again with AMC the settings are identical, I want Lampard and Deco to be pullings the strings and contributing with goals.

Okay I've decided to throw myself into the deep end and try this tactic. I'm going to use Chelsea as well (as they are my favourite team and I really feel like giving them a go after spending the last 6 seasons in the Serie A with Roma).

Only really one question I have to ask, is if you have set Lampard and Deco onto Long Shot's often or mixed. I have played 5 friendlies so far with them on mixed and they just don't seem to like taking the shots, rather looking to pass the ball around looking for my wider players or my striker.

Otherwise I'm going along slowly trying things myself and will eventually update with screenshots as to what and how I'm doing! Just wanted to know how you were managing Lampard and Deco (or the two AMC's).

I have them both on mixed long shots but I feel they shoot to often so sometimes use rarely. I have given them high creative freedom so they shoot when they feel the need. As you can see above Lampard had an outstanding season at AMC and Deco was pretty good to.

Will be good to see your updates, I finished the season 2nd to Man U who got 101 points. I was pretty happy with it and with Chelsea you have a good base to start with.

I am just going to play through one season without major tweaks and will then post a more in depth write up on how I play. May be this weekend but more likely to be in 2 or 3 weeks (really busy at the moment )

[Manager23]

hi all i would like to how do i use the WM formation against big teams?

[RossoneriGunner]

I have just used 5x5 setup from TT&F '09 and beat mighty Porto in Porto in the CL group game 2-1. I know this does not sound great but considering I used other formations and kept getting beat 3-0. Yes I did quit the game after the Porto game and kept going back again and this time I have WON. Just for the record it was using it as a practice game to see how the changes have taken place and if for better or worse. Now all I have to do is to start tweaking. Watch out football world Arsenal are back...LOL

[mag man]

What mentalities are you using for defensive/attacking group?

[RossoneriGunner]

My FB's, DC, on 8, DMC's on 10 , AMC's on 12, AML/R on 15 and ST on 18, but these are going to be tweaked in the matches to come.

[RossoneriGunner]

How is your marking set up?. Mine are FB's, DC, DMC's are man and tight, AMC's man and tight with AML/R and ST are zonal and loose. But these again will be tweaked to suit.

[mag man]

I use DC and FB on 11, DMC & AMC on 13 and wingers & ST on 15.

At the moment all on tight zonal marking. I havent got to tweaking that but I will probably loosen up attacking players. I dont want defenders to man mark because then FB's wont come in to cover or DC will mark one player. I find they provide good marking over the entire back line on zonal.

[RossoneriGunner]

Also I have tried my wingers on crossing rarely but they still went to the byline before running towards goal, it is a shame you cant get them to cut inside the fullback. I am going to try sorting out my crossing as regards to the defenders at the moment I have the DR/L on mixed and deep.

[Intercept]

Gotten 10 game's into the league season and things aren't going as well I would like, managed to win 7 and draw 3 which wouldn't be a bad thing if I was actually playing well and deserved the win's. Most of the time its just Cech, Terry, Belleti and Cole keeping me in the game, as defensively I'm quite solid. But going forward I seem to be trying to pass the ball into the back of the net all the time. Need to make a few tweaks to Lampard and Deco as they are struggling for form and just don't seem to ever find space (Free Role maybe? Lower Attacking settings?). Most of my goal's are coming from Drogba which is nice, just need to get my mid-field more involved.

Otherwise just going to kick on with a few more game's (I'm going really slowly as I'm still tinkering and watching the match in full to see what's going on) and then see what's happening.

[Manager23]

i find that in this tactic u gotta use the strongest players in the right positions. For example before my CL game against Celtic, petr cech and terry are out injured God damn the injuries! So i use carvalho and hilario and guess what i lose to Celtic 2-1 two stupid mistakes made by my third choice keeper and rotational CB. Gets me ****ed off real bad.

[RossoneriGunner]

In the WM formation, if you write the positions on a piece of paper you have 2 AMC's and 2 DMC's and if you draw a square around these players this is known as the 'Magic Square' and this is where the blend between defence, midfield and attack take place, if you can get these four players to gel then you have got the answer to getting the rest of the team playing great football.

[RossoneriGunner]

i find that in this tactic u gotta use the strongest players in the right positions. For example before my CL game against Celtic, petr cech and terry are out injured God damn the injuries! So i use carvalho and hilario and guess what i lose to Celtic 2-1 two stupid mistakes made by my third choice keeper and rotational CB. Gets me ****ed off real bad.

I dont think just in this formation (WM) you need your strongest players, you need them in any formation otherwise you would go out and get all the free players and would'nt spend a penny. You would'nt expect your 3rd choice keeper to come in and play like Cech, or Man Utd's 3rd keeper to come in and play as well as Ven der Sar. So its not the formation thats the problem but the depth of squad.

[mag man]

Also I have tried my wingers on crossing rarely but they still went to the byline before running towards goal, it is a shame you cant get them to cut inside the fullback. I am going to try sorting out my crossing as regards to the defenders at the moment I have the DR/L on mixed and deep.

My cut inside the fullback. I have them on crossing mixed, play narrow and sometiems give them free roles. My DR/L are on mixed crossing and mixed/byline.

Gotten 10 game's into the league season and things aren't going as well I would like, managed to win 7 and draw 3 which wouldn't be a bad thing if I was actually playing well and deserved the win's. Most of the time its just Cech, Terry, Belleti and Cole keeping me in the game, as defensively I'm quite solid. But going forward I seem to be trying to pass the ball into the back of the net all the time. Need to make a few tweaks to Lampard and Deco as they are struggling for form and just don't seem to ever find space (Free Role maybe? Lower Attacking settings?). Most of my goal's are coming from Drogba which is nice, just need to get my mid-field more involved.

Otherwise just going to kick on with a few more game's (I'm going really slowly as I'm still tinkering and watching the match in full to see what's going on) and then see what's happening.

Most of my goals come from midfield but I struggle to get the strikers scoring as many as I want. So far your results are good just got keep experimenting until you get it right. Do you not use Bosingwa?

i find that in this tactic u gotta use the strongest players in the right positions. For example before my CL game against Celtic, petr cech and terry are out injured God damn the injuries! So i use carvalho and hilario and guess what i lose to Celtic 2-1 two stupid mistakes made by my third choice keeper and rotational CB. Gets me ****ed off real bad.

I have played with Rhys Taylor in goal and Mancienne at CB, my settigns are set-up to ensure there job is simple defending and it works. Maybe if you protect your defence a bit more with DMC's your CB wont have to do as much.

In the WM formation, if you write the positions on a piece of paper you have 2 AMC's and 2 DMC's and if you draw a square around these players this is known as the 'Magic Square' and this is where the blend between defence, midfield and attack take place, if you can get these four players to gel then you have got the answer to getting the rest of the team playing great football.

Indeed, I am happy with my magic square. I find it play amazing passing football and retains the ball well. At the moment I am just concentrating on improving the back 3 and forward 3.

[mag man]

I dont think just in this formation (WM) you need your strongest players, you need them in any formation otherwise you would go out and get all the free players and would'nt spend a penny. You would'nt expect your 3rd choice keeper to come in and play like Cech, or Man Utd's 3rd keeper to come in and play as well as Ven der Sar. So its not the formation thats the problem but the depth of squad.

I agree, I actually think a slightly faster CB is more suited than Terry (I like him to much though). When I tried this with my Maidstone team I have a Terry like CB with 16 pace and he is just awsome in this.

[RossoneriGunner]

I have been thinking about corners. When I used 442, I used to have Toure on near post flick on and Djourou set to stand on far post, but because we only have 3 official defenders (DL/R, DC), I am going to get one winger to take the corner, FC/ST to challenge Gk, have my AMC's lurking outside area, one DMC to near post flick on and have the othe winger stand on far post. Also mag man I wondered if you use free roles anywhere.

[mag man]

I have been thinking about corners. When I used 442, I used to have Toure on near post flick on and Djourou set to stand on far post, but because we only have 3 official defenders (DL/R, DC), I am going to get one winger to take the corner, FC/ST to challenge Gk, have my AMC's lurking outside area, one DMC to near post flick on and have the othe winger stand on far post. Also mag man I wondered if you use free roles anywhere.

For a whilst I had free roles on all the attacking 5, it worked well to but I have gone back to none. I have never really used free-roles and its just my way of playing.

I have also tried them on the front 3 and that works to.

Regarding corners just set it up to whoever is best in your side. I use Drogba and Terry on GK, wingers attack far post, AMC lurk outside are, DMC back if needed, DR/L back.

[RossoneriGunner]

I am thinking of starting a new game (Arsenal) as I would like to play friendlies while trying to sort out the formation rather than playing around in a season, I know I will still have to tweak into the season but I am hoping I get it at least 75% right before hitting the EPL and CL. As I started this game using 442 I bought players to fit that formation, now I would like to buy players that I need and mainly AMR's/Wingers. I know I could sell the players I bought but sometimes clubs wont but them because they have just moved clubs.

[mag man]

I am thinking of starting a new game (Arsenal) as I would like to play friendlies while trying to sort out the formation rather than playing around in a season, I know I will still have to tweak into the season but I am hoping I get it at least 75% right before hitting the EPL and CL. As I started this game using 442 I bought players to fit that formation, now I would like to buy players that I need and mainly AMR's/Wingers. I know I could sell the players I bought but sometimes clubs wont but them because they have just moved clubs.

What I did is played with Chelsea until I was fairly happy with the formation and then started again with a longer term game but the basic ideas fixed. Thats when mainly tweaking to what I could see going on happened.

[Intercept]

Most of my goals come from midfield but I struggle to get the strikers scoring as many as I want. So far your results are good just got keep experimenting until you get it right.

I find I'm getting my strikers to score quite nicely but my Mid-fielders are struggling to make an impact, or as much as you seem to have them. They mostly are just a link to get the ball to the wide strikers (Cole, Malouda, Kalou or Quaresma) who make the goals for Drogba, Anelka or Di Santo. Need to tinker around to get the best out of the mid-field while not sacrificing the wide players, which to be honest, is going to be a difficult task! ;p

Do you not use Bosingwa?

I use him as my third choice, or if I want my defense to play a little more attacking. I prefer the defensive attributes of Belletti and Ivanovic (tackling, marking, anticipation, etc) over the more attacking one's that Bosingwa has. Like I said I mostly use him if I want my defense to be a bit more attacking, although Belletti is decent going forward as well.

Played about two game's and suffered my first defeat to Roma away from home. Pushed my D-line a little to far up and a perfect through ball from Totti saw Vucinic drill Terry into the ground. Dropped it back a little and managed to get back into the game before De Rossi took a 35 yard screamer past Cech. Annoying as it was in the dying moments and I wouldn't have minded a draw. Otherwise was bussiness as usual in the League beating Middlesborough 3-0, hat-trick from Drogba (two from corners though).

Edit: Also given the formation I'm using and it being very good with wide players. I think I'm going to start up a Valencia game and see how I get on with two real Wingers in Silva and Joaquin. But thats future plan's. Want to get this sorted out first, maybe play 1-2 seasons here and see if I can get Chelsea to the CL final.

[mag man]

I find I'm getting my strikers to score quite nicely but my Mid-fielders are struggling to make an impact, or as much as you seem to have them. They mostly are just a link to get the ball to the wide strikers (Cole, Malouda, Kalou or Quaresma) who make the goals for Drogba, Anelka or Di Santo. Need to tinker around to get the best out of the mid-field while not sacrificing the wide players, which to be honest, is going to be a difficult task! ;p

I use him as my third choice, or if I want my defense to play a little more attacking. I prefer the defensive attributes of Belletti and Ivanovic (tackling, marking, anticipation, etc) over the more attacking one's that Bosingwa has. Like I said I mostly use him if I want my defense to be a bit more attacking, although Belletti is decent going forward as well.

Played about two game's and suffered my first defeat to Roma away from home. Pushed my D-line a little to far up and a perfect through ball from Totti saw Vucinic drill Terry into the ground. Dropped it back a little and managed to get back into the game before De Rossi took a 35 yard screamer past Cech. Annoying as it was in the dying moments and I wouldn't have minded a draw. Otherwise was bussiness as usual in the League beating Middlesborough 3-0, hat-trick from Drogba (two from corners though).

Edit: Also given the formation I'm using and it being very good with wide players. I think I'm going to start up a Valencia game and see how I get on with two real Wingers in Silva and Joaquin. But thats future plan's. Want to get this sorted out first, maybe play 1-2 seasons here and see if I can get Chelsea to the CL final.

Every time I have pushed the defensive line up I have been punished. Terry's lack of pace probably the reason.

I really like Bosingwa he is quick and pretty good defensively. Ivanovic is class though plays well at any of the back 3 positions I play Beletti in midfield always scores screamers

If your midfielders are providing balls to the wingers which leads to a goal then I would say they are playing well.

Have you tried Drogba with HUB and try through balls?

What are your AMC settings?

[RossoneriGunner]

Mag_Man, can you give some thought to this idea please. I was sitting the car this morning waiting for my wife and my dad to finish shopping in Tesco's and while I was waiting I took the TT&F '09 with me to read up on something I was thinking about last night. Then I had a thought about the 'Magic Square' whilst reading about specialist position theories and wondered what would happen if you used your AMC's as Advanced Playmakers(AP) and the DMC's as Deep Lying playmakers (DLP) then by allowing the DPL's to go as far as the halfway line they would link up nicely with the AP's who then would link with the AML/R and ST/FC. Take a look at what TT&F says about Specialist Position Theories and I think it sounds perfect.

[mag man]

I am at work at the moment so cant look but I think you have it spot on.

My DMC's are the main passers in my team. They have the AMCs infront or the DR/L back and diagonally. I then have AMC's infront who look for the wide men or pass backwards or shoot. The AMCs are always backed up by the DMC's close behind.

[Intercept]

Every time I have pushed the defensive line up I have been punished. Terry's lack of pace probably the reason.

Yeah I drew the same conclusions after watching him getting beaten by Vucinic. Only time I push up the D-Line is when its a 4-2-3-1 formation with AMC/R/L's now and I want to stop them from playing their game.

I really like Bosingwa he is quick and pretty good defensively. Ivanovic is class though plays well at any of the back 3 positions I play Beletti in midfield always scores screamers

Bosingwa isn't bad don't get me wrong, but I just prefer Belletti and Ivanovic in that position. Although you have given me food for thought about using Belletti as a DM, never really gave it any thought about using him there. Mikel, Essien and Mineiro have sort of cemented the position with how well they have played! xD

If your midfielders are providing balls to the wingers which leads to a goal then I would say they are playing well.

I would generally agree, but I'm watching the game's in full and I just see Deco and Lampard constantly holding onto the ball and looking for a pass when they have a clear clear chance to shoot at goal (I even set their long shots to Often and Through Ball's to Mixed) and they just don't take it. Every now and then Ballack will attempt one and get it so wrong its funny. Malouda, Kalou, Cole and Quaresma are making up for it though, with some pretty good rippers from the left and right (I have them set to swap positions so that they cut in sometimes, for instance when Malouda gets onto the right.).

Have you tried Drogba with HUB and try through balls?

At the moment I have him set as Target Man and with the feed to head (change's when Anelka comes on and it goes to "Run onto Ball" or "Feet") and he seem's to like the position. But if I wanted to get the Mid-field more involved I guess that would be a good way to go about it. Will look into it!

What are your AMC settings?

Lampard

Mentality - 12 (Two to the right of normal)

Creative Freedom - 16

Passing - Team (First notch of Short)

Closing Down - First notch of Whole Pitch

Tackling - Team (Normal)

Forward Runs - Mixed

Run with Ball - Mixed

Long Shots - Mixed

Through Balls - Often (this could be why he looks to pass, but even if I swap it around, he seems hesitant)

Cross Ball - Rarely

Marking - Man

Tight Marking - Yes

Free Role / Hold up Ball - Unticked.

Deco's settings are the same except for his Mentality which is on 10 (middle of the slider) as I want him to link up with Mikel and Essien.

[mag man]

I would generally agree, but I'm watching the game's in full and I just see Deco and Lampard constantly holding onto the ball and looking for a pass when they have a clear clear chance to shoot at goal (I even set their long shots to Often and Through Ball's to Mixed) and they just don't take it.

I use 13 mentality for both. Also have through balls often. I have them on zonal marking though.

What tempo are you playing at? Mine shoot all the time.

[RossoneriGunner]

Mag Man here's my starting stats I am going to try.

............................Gk...........FB.........DC.........DMC's.........AMC's.........Wingers.........FC

Mentality................5.............6............6............11.............14................17............20

Creative Freedom.....6.............6............6............11.............15................17............18

Passing Style..........11...........13..........13............13..............7.................6.............6

Closing Down...........6............14..........14............14............16.................17............18

Fwd Runs.............Rarely.......Rare........Rare........Rare...........11...............Often........Often

Run With Ball........Rarely.......Rare........Rare........Rare...........11...............Often........Often

Long Shots..........Rarely.......Rare........Rare........Rare..........Often............Mixed........Mixed

Thru Balls............Rarely.....Rare..........Rare.......Often.........Often............Mixed........Mixed

Cross Ball............Rarely.....Mixed........Mixed.......Rare...........11...............Mixed........Mixed

Cross From..........Rarely.....Deep.........Deep.......Deep.........Mixed............Mixed........Mixed

Cross Aim...........Rarely......Mixed........Mixed......Mixed........Mixed.............Mixed.......Mixed

Distribution........Def Coll

Dist To.............(DMC)

Free Role................No.......No............No...........No...........No.................No..........No

Hold Up Ball.............No.......No...........Yes...........No...........No................No..........Yes

These are just starting stats, I have set some of them to maximum, like the closing down, I thought it better to be safe than sorry, so they will be closing down opposing forwards big time from the start, then I can tweak it after I have played a few games.

[mag man]

Im not at home so I dont remember my exact settings but will give you what I am using.

Position      GK        DR/L         DC        DMC/AMC      FR/FL/ST

Creative      None      Little       Little    Little/Much  Much

Mentality     1         11           11        13           15

Closing Down  Own Area  Whole Pitch  Own Half  Whole Pitch  Whole Pitch

Passing       Short     Short        Short     Mixed        Direct

[mag man]

- I also play narrow, quick tempo.

- I have mixed forward runs on my DMC's as I want them involved in the build up.

- It looks like your mentalities are to far apart, I found you needed to keep close.

[RossoneriGunner]

I have just beaten Man City away 2-1 after leading 2-0 and I was tweaking during the match and some of the mentalities have changed and a few other settings so I have now got to go and analyse. My Magical Square seemed to work well afer I changed a few settings like mentality and creative freedom during the game. So far I am very happy, Robinho, Wright-Philips never got a look in as I had them on OI as closing down and tight marking with hard tackling and weaker foot and their goal came from Richards from a corner. The thing that really made me laugh was that after the game I was hailed as a tactical genius after their win at City, then it went on to say that I had a golden touch when it came to choosing the right tactic and the Gunners football was a joy to watch. I found it quite amusing.