HT team-talk - "Pleased" = death penalty for second half?

[Diegas]

It doesnt matter what kind of team I play - strong, average or very weak. If I am winning and use 'Pleased' at HT, I can bet my left ball that second half will be draw or loss, never won by me.

Have anyone had similar experiences?

[heathxxx]

Nope, "pleased" equates to Chinese water torture, I would bet both cajones, that "thrilled" is the kiss of death.

[TheBetterHalf]

@heathxxx

What do you say at ht, when 2-0 up. Do you use "I have faith.."?, , "Don't expect your.." ?. I am afraid to say anything these days

[9inarowhoops]

Say nothing at HT if winning usually works for me

[lawd]

Yeah pleased is a kiss of death, I say nothing if i'm winning seems to work

[swash]

after a while you have to stop using "you can win this" at the start of a match as well.

SI really need to rework the whole team talks feature

[TheBetterHalf]

Has anyone seen a pattern in how different personalities react to team talks under different circumstances.?

• Driven - should be told....if .....
  
• Born leader - should be told....when....
  
• Spirited -.....
  
• Very ambitious - etc etc
  

[jaycar]

The last game in the league cup against Macclesfield (I'm Sheff Utd) we were 4-0 up at half time, and I used "pleased" at half time. They did seem to take the foot off the gas, we didn't add to the scoreline but we didn't concede either.

As others have said, I'm beginning to think that this relaxes them a bit to much but "thrilled" does indeed seem like an invitation for the team to have the rest of the night off! I'll try saying nothing next time just to see what happens...

[Diegas]

Has anyone seen a pattern in how different personalities react to team talks under different circumstances.?

• Driven - should be told....if .....
  
• Born leader - should be told....when....
  
• Spirited -.....
  
• Very ambitious - etc etc
  

One thing I noticed that on youngsters 'no pressure' works best.

[Diegas]

Nope, "pleased" equates to Chinese water torture, I would bet both cajones, that "thrilled" is the kiss of death.

never acctually tried "thrilled", I'm not such a masochist :D

[jascko]

How about saying "pleased" only to a couple of players who realy deserve it, not a whole team? Try that next time and see if it works. I m up to more individual "team-talk" these days.

[Jack Rudd]

I've used "thrilled" on a side that was 4-1 down at half-time, and gone on to win 5-4. That was kinda baffling.

[Ukchris]

In 9.1 and 9.2 I found pleased or anything like that was an automatic "stop playing and let them score 3". In 9.3 team talks seem to be different. I almost always now follow this pattern:

Before match:

Normal = For the fans

Against top 4 = Wish luck

Half time:

Losing at home = for the fans or 'want to see more' if against teams at bottom of the league or playing really badly

Losing away = encourage (if available) plus 'have faith' for the lowest rated players

Drawing or winning = encourage (if available) plus 'pleased' for the top 2-3 players, or anyone who's on low morale but played ok

Full time:

Won = pleased plus 'fantastic/delighted' for couple of top players if 7.5+

Draw = pleased or sympathise

Loss = sympathise or good effort

That system seems to be working well for me at the moment, keeping morale up and not having anyone demotivated by the talks. Frequently seeing people motivated and fired up. Of course, what works for my players in my specific situation (Hull in relegation battle) might not work for anyone else. With a team expected to lose, encouraging seems to work. If I was playing as Man Utd it might be different.

[vasilli07]

Pleased to players who has low determination if they perform well in the 1st half. I have Pavlyuchenko whose personality is 'fairly loyal' and a determination of 9, he performed well in the 1st half and i just say 'pleased'. In the 2nd half, he got 'seems motivated, inspired to a better performance'.

Just a side note, press conference will also determine how your teamtalks will go. If the reporter ask you about your chance and your answer is 'we will play a careful game', then your teamtalk should be 'we can win this'. Using 'I expect a win' will make your players nervous.

[Mike J]

I've been thinking quite a lot about the team talk feature in FM09 recently. Maybe it's because I'm in the middle of a fairly lengthy Celtic save where the vast majority of games have me as strong favourites and probably 50% of the league games are more or less won by half time. The team talk feature in these circumstances really shows its flaws, IMO.

There are 2 main problems I have. One is the half time talk, as others have mentioned here. "Pleased" and "Thrilled" seem to automatically result in drops in effort and if I ever use them I often have to also change my tactics to a more attacking set in order to keep the pressure on the opposition. The problem is there's a limit to how many times I can use the "Don't let your performance drop" talk before it becomes useless. Maybe "none" is a valid option?

My main concern is linked to that problem. I'll often be 2 or 3 up at half time and if I used the "Pleased" talk the second half will be pretty poor, sometimes actually losing the second half 1-0 so the final result is 3-1, but more often simply dropping in performance and neither team scoring. Then at the full time talk the options never seem to be right. The ratings will usually be pretty good and if the result is 3-0 I can't really complain about the result as a whole. What I really want to be able to say is something along the lines of "good result, but the second half was terrible." The problem is you have no option at any time to comment directly on the second half performance.

[anthn09]

I used to use the overall team talks and occasionally theres 2 or 3 players happy from that when saying things like 'we can win this' prematch and again at half time when drawing, or pleased on the better performers at half time. But when i started to use more individual talks i immediately noticed that 'you have faith' by far results in the most players being happy. In one of my recent games 8 players appeared happy or delighted prematch, and using it again at half time (leading 2-0) 6 players did won 4-0 in the end and one of the things that had been irritating me with FM09 was the massive drop in perfomances 2nd half, and obviously your players being happy is more likely to result in a good performance from them. 1st halfs are still usually better but there isn't as much of a drop in the level the players perform at in 2nd half.

[STFC will rule again]

Clear Favourite - I expect victory - Attack

Slight Favourite/Evens - We can win this - Standard

Slight Underdog - Wish luck - Defensive

Massive Underdog - Pressure is off - Defensive

Winning by 1 goal - Encourage

Winning by 2 goals - Pleased

Winning by 3 goals or more - Thrilled

Drawing or Losing by 1 goal - You can win this

Losing by 2 goals - Disappointing

Losing by 3 goals or more - I want to see more from you

Player ratings 6 or below - Disappointing

Player ratings 7 to 8 - Pleased

Player ratings 8 or more - Thrilled

That's what I do usually, seems to work well for me .

[TheBetterHalf]

Winning by 1 goal - Encourage

Winning by 2 goals - Pleased

Winning by 3 goals or more - Thrilled

That's what I do usually, seems to work well for me .

Are you getting away with this when playing away?( the encourage I have only seen once or twice when on the road)

[STFC will rule again]

Haven't noticed much of a difference away from home when using the same as at home, I win more than I lose but might just be down to my side instead of the impact of the team talks.

[TheBetterHalf]

Haven't noticed much of a difference away from home when using the same as at home, I win more than I lose but might just be down to my side instead of the impact of the team talks.

Who are you playing as( normally), top teams, underdogs etc etc ?

[STFC will rule again]

Playing as Wigan in a two player online game, currently 6th in 2013/14 season with them and also running a Chelmsford City single player, 3rd in 2010/11 season in Blue Square Premier.

[freddo21]

Rather oddly, 'I expect a win' at half time when down to a bigger opponent has worked for me several times. However, I usually don't set one when winning.

[Diegas]

Rather oddly, 'I expect a win' at half time when down to a bigger opponent has worked for me several times. However, I usually don't set one when winning.

You dont get an option for that when you are winning.

P.S. Just again, 3-0 at HT, used "Pleased", finished 3-2 :thdn:

SI should really change that "Pleased" to "Hey guys, lets conceed some goals!!!"

[TheBetterHalf]

You dont get an option for that when you are winning.

P.S. Just again, 3-0 at HT, used "Pleased", finished 3-2 :thdn:

SI should really change that "Pleased" to "Hey guys, lets concede some goals!!!"

I am now certain that this, conceding when 3-0 up, has absolutely nothing to do with team talk. I think its the calculations of who's going to score the next goal that is seriously wrong. It seems to me that the team being 3 down have a too big a chance to score next and that this scenario triggers that there will be more goals, making them almost bound to score...and it also seems that a team scoring a goal when 3-0 down is too likely to be the next to score again, making it 3-2

[Diegas]

Dunno, mate. Start to use "Don't let your performance to drop" and that seems to do the trick so far. Not scoring in the second half, but not conceeding either. Last match goals: 7, 21, 43, 45min. Won 4-0 with ManCity vs Dortmund in EuroCup, yet 2nd half scoreless... Would blame tirediness, but opponents are just the same tired as my team. Lot's of similar examples.

[RobinGoodey]

I use pleased at half time whenever I'm two goals up and I have NEVER drawn or lost a match because of it - so stop the conspiracy theories - and look at the other things that are going on which cause you to concede - ie tactics, players (condition etc), cos it is not solely the team talk.

Just to add - I will generally give 2/3 players an individual talk as well - either the ones that are playing great (delighted) or ones that are rated poorly (have faith, make the difference, disappointed)

[Burford]

i have noticed on players with high detemination you should be more harsh for example if someone is playing ok ie 7 you should say dissapointed

[Diegas]

Ok, then another question - shouldn't AssMan with Motivation at 20 do 100% right team-talk?

[zoopaloola]

Ok, then another question - shouldn't AssMan with Motivation at 20 do 100% right team-talk?

Well no as even though he has 20 doesn't mean that he is perfect, ie a striker with 20 for finishing won't always score. He should in theory be better at team talks of course.

[Coop]

I don't bother saying anything until the end of the game (unless it's a derby and I can use the 'for the fans' option). Nothing seems to work properly.

[AoV]

I too have noticed that using 'Pleased', especially against better teams, when protecting a lead from the first half (yes, I've even let a 3 goal lead drop before) is tantamount to suicide. Normally what I do is tell the players not to get complacent if protecting a lead and playing decent/well. If it's a tight lead and the team is playing below average, I tell them their performance is disappointing or even get angry at them. If it's a draw at half time or if I'm trailing, i normally always use the 'i'm angry' option.

That's with me playing as Arsenal so the expectations are reflective of a title chasing team.

[LJ87]

Will say "nothing" at HT have any drawback on team morale?

[Diegas]

I use pleased at half time whenever I'm two goals up and I have NEVER drawn or lost a match because of it - so stop the conspiracy theories - and look at the other things that are going on which cause you to concede - ie tactics, players (condition etc), cos it is not solely the team talk.

But of course you are not right! Just try reloading the same match and playing it couple times, using different team-talk at HT.

[wwfan]

I always smile when I read these threads, because rarely is the most obvious point raised, which is the context of the match.

If I am a bottom of the table side playing away from home against a top four team and leading 2-0, pleased or even thrilled is a perfectly acceptable team talk. However, I make it in full knowledge that if the opposition comes out and plays at the level of which they are capable, it might not do any good anyway. If, however, the situation is reversed, and I am a top four side leading a bottom four side 2-0 at home, then it is nothing unexpected and there is no need to say anything. I might make a few individual comments to players playing much better or worse than the team average (in consideration of their personality), but that is about it.

[Aytumious]

If I am a bottom of the table side playing away from home against a top four team and leading 2-0, pleased or even thrilled is a perfectly acceptable team talk. However, I make it in full knowledge that if the opposition comes out and plays at the level of which they are capable, it might not do any good anyway. If, however, the situation is reversed, and I am a top four side leading a bottom four side 2-0 at home, then it is nothing unexpected and there is no need to say anything. I might make a few individual comments to players playing much better or worse than the team average (in consideration of their personality), but that is about it.

I agree with this. I rarely ever use pleased or thrilled because the situation usually only comes up a few times a year.

The problem I've noticed is that ass men tend to recommend saying "pleased" in situations where it really doesn't fit in terms of game mechanics but make some sense. I've found that ass men almost always choose pleased if you are up at HT and were not expected to win, even if you were only a slight underdog. I think a lot of people just go with it because it makes sense. Now I usually choose "don't let up" or just pick out a few players for praise if they are doing exceptionally well.

I know when I first started with FM09 I just went with what the ass man suggested because it made sense, but I found myself getting clobbered in the second half of games I had controlled up to that point after stating I was "pleased" at HT. Now I am much more harsh with my team. If I get the inclination to say "pleased" or "thrilled" I often choose to say nothing at all instead.

[Torpy]

To be honest I'm become disenchanted with team talks, maybe silence ('none') is golden, especially if you're comfortably up at half time. I've tried most of the variations of HT team talks and rarely do they have the desired effect to 'spur on' my team for the next half.

For example I'm playing as Newcastle, 3-0 up at home to Tottenham in the season opener, we had like 15 shots on goal in the first half, totally dominating with ~60% possession. From prior experience that 'pleased' really means 'lets take it easy for the next 45min' I thought I'd give the 'don't let your performance drop' talk a try...

We literally did frack all for the next half, had like 3 shots on goal, in fact I'd say we were outplayed in the 2nd half.

I'll try 'none' for the next few games if I'm up a couple goals at half time and see if that improves things...

[SFraser]

I always smile when I read these threads, because rarely is the most obvious point raised, which is the context of the match.

If I am a bottom of the table side playing away from home against a top four team and leading 2-0, pleased or even thrilled is a perfectly acceptable team talk. However, I make it in full knowledge that if the opposition comes out and plays at the level of which they are capable, it might not do any good anyway. If, however, the situation is reversed, and I am a top four side leading a bottom four side 2-0 at home, then it is nothing unexpected and there is no need to say anything. I might make a few individual comments to players playing much better or worse than the team average (in consideration of their personality), but that is about it.

Not only do you have to take into account the context of the match, but also a players longterm relationship with you, and most importantly the relationship between his short term form and your recent methods of interacting with him. The first point is important in evaluating the reaction you desire, the second point determines the leeway you have with regards to severity and the third point is critical in linking match performances, post and pre match interaction and teamtalks across multiple matches into a consistent run of results, performances, expectations and responses.

Example:

Good Performances.

Weak opponent: expect a win -> Medium opponent: pick up where you left off! -> Strong opponent: Expect a Performance.

Bad Performances.

Weak opponent: expect a win -> Medium opponent: expect a performance. -> Strong Opponent: Prove a Point!

In both cases by the time you come to the strong opponent then all players in your side irrespective of prior performances should be "Fired Up!" and the teamtalk for all players should not only be logically determined by previous matches but also should have had the effect of increasingly motivating players for each successive match, while saving the greatest provocation for the biggest match. I think team talks and motivation is a great little mini-feature of player management.

[wwfan]

Ah, but the original question only related to what to do at half-time when leading 2-0, not what to do at the beginning of a match.

[Diegas]

OK, two points from this discussion:

1. Imagine in IRL manager comming to dressing room @HT and saying nothing to the team? I bet Sir Alex is pleased with a result 3-1 at at HT at home vs Hull?

2. Means AssMen even with 20 motivation are absolutely rubbish? I noticed they do very bad at press conferences(what annoys me very much to answer every second time the same questions and it takes a lot of time), now it means they can't handle even team talk?

[SFraser]

Ah, but the original question only related to what to do at half-time when leading 2-0, not what to do at the beginning of a match.

True that, but the whole lot is linked quite considerably, and so long as you are careful about what is said in the dressing room at full time you can pretty much say what you like at half time, as in you can rip into them not that you can tell them they have surpassed your expectations and can think about the back pages tomorrow.

1. Imagine in IRL manager comming to dressing room @HT and saying nothing to the team? I bet Sir Alex is pleased with a result 3-1 at at HT at home vs Hull?

I bet Sir Alex is not pleased, I bet Sir Alex is concerned that the next goal is decisive and if Hull score it they are right back in the game and have the momentum. I bet Sir Alex is also concerned that Hull have managed to score one in the first half and will be looking to make sure his defenders understand that A: they can expect an all out assualt on the weaknesses exposed in the first half and B: they cannot afford to be exposed is badly as the first half even under more intense pressure while at the same time they cannot afford to sit back and let Hull take the iniative. In short having won the first half 3-1 Sir Alex will be looking for nothing less than winning the Second Half 1-0.

2. Means AssMen even with 20 motivation are absolutely rubbish? I noticed they do very bad at press conferences(what annoys me very much to answer every second time the same questions and it takes a lot of time), now it means they can't handle even team talk?

I don't think Assistants understand the continuity principle of teamtalks but they will certainly be coded to select the best responses in situations that are determined by a few key contextual indicators. This will give poor motivators a good guide to a decent choice, will give better motivators a few concerns that the Assistant doesn't understand what is going on, and will be completely ignored by the best motivators. The Assistant info is there to help players that don't understand the game. It might give a few hints to average players with a basic grasp of the game but it offers nothing to better players other than an indication of whether an injury is one that can be shrugged off or not.

In the context of this thread title, which I have missed, the point I would add to this discussion is the cliche that football is a game of two halves and anyone going in at half time thinking the game is won is a poor manager. The half time teamtalk is identical to the pre match team talk in that you are trying to motivate your players to win a contest, the only difference being this contest is the final 45 minutes of a match where you may have won, drawn or lost the first 45 minutes, where you are running out of time but equally have a standard by which to judge your players in the context of that specific match.

The half time teamtalk should be the most brutal, no nonesense teamtalk you ever give as a manager unless you get embarrased at home in a match you should be winning and your second half performance is worse than your first. Then you "lock the players in the dressing room" and you rip into them. The opposition are invariably going to react to your performance in the first half and this is absolutely critical. Anyone who has followed the career of Alex Ferguson will know about the teamtalks "you lost the first half now you go and win the second" or the emphasise on matching the opposition for work rate and beating them with quality. Above all else though is the emphasis on scoring first or scoring next in combination with outfighting the opposition as a way to break the spirit of the opponent and crush their morale, as epitomised by the 5-3 reversal against Tottenham Hotspur in 1998/99.

Show no mercy at half-time and this leaves no room for excuses at full time. If they perform in the second half then use full time to minimise the consequences of your ruthlessness and reinforce to the utmost through praise your delight at their reaction. If they do not perform and they do not react then they are a second chance away from being dropped and a half season away from the sack.

[Diegas]

I bet Sir Alex is not pleased, I bet Sir Alex is concerned that the next goal is decisive and if Hull score it they are right back in the game and have the momentum. I bet Sir Alex is also concerned that Hull have managed to score one in the first half and will be looking to make sure his defenders understand that A: they can expect an all out assualt on the weaknesses exposed in the first half and B: they cannot afford to be exposed is badly as the first half even under more intense pressure while at the same time they cannot afford to sit back and let Hull take the iniative. In short having won the first half 3-1 Sir Alex will be looking for nothing less than winning the Second Half 1-0.

So that would be between disappointed and warning against complacency in FM terms?

I always thought team-talks (also as press conferences) are very sketchy and sometimes you just don't have the option you would like to pick.

Turns out that if I'm winning EPL match 3-0 at HT, I can't be pleased?

[macca72]

The thing I find, and using the alex ferguson example above, is that the options just don't look quite right for some situations. They may very well have the effect but it can be a tad hard to choose sometimes.

Take the example above, if your in front by two clear goals at half time, to either a team equal or better than you, you should be able to say (a shortened version)..."Great half lads, but we need to make sure that we don't let them back in the game...Next goal is vital"

This allows you to combine the pleased, with the don't let your performance drop...

Don't think there is anything massively wrong with teamtalks, but the choices you have could do with being a little more elaborate and explanitory.

[SFraser]

Turns out that if I'm winning EPL match 3-0 at HT, I can't be pleased?

Why are you pleased? You have not won yet.

[TheBetterHalf]

Why are you pleased? You have not won yet.

So pleased does not mean " I am happy with the performance so far..." ..but something more in the lines of "That's good enough for me lads, good work " ?

[Diegas]

Why are you pleased? You have not won yet.

Why shouldn't I be? I loved the performance and it will be heading towards 6-0 FT' with the same performance, so I just wan't them to play like the first half, nothing more.

[macca72]

So pleased does not mean " I am happy with the performance so far..." ..but something more in the lines of "That's good enough for me lads, good work " ?

I guess that's the question...Does please mean

"Everythings fine" or "Well done so far, but we're only half way there"

Personally, I don't use please at all, simply because i'm not confident enough on understanding what the AI manager has said and how his side will react. I tend to say nothing if i'm "pleased"

[WoIfsong]

As I have mentioned in a reply to my teamtalks guide thread, for FM09 there are broadly two options for my HT teamtalks if I am leading by 2 goals or more:

1. Say "Pleased" as a general teamtalk BUT put "none" on players with below 7 ratings AND "you have faith" on players who scored.

2. Say "do not get complacent" or equivalent as a general teamtalk BUT put "pleased" on above rating 7 young players or players who are not regular first team AND "you have faith" on players who scored.

When I managed 1860 Munich and Athletic Bilbao, I use the 1st option the most, can not remember any matches where I drew or lost (when I was leading by 2 or more goals by HT of course). (I won triples with both teams including Euro Champions Cup)

Where I managed Juventus, I use the 2nd option more frequent. (I won triples for 5 consecutive seasons.)

As WWFAN said, it depends on what level of team you are managing.

[dz47]

This is one of the best discussions I have seen on team talks, and I have already picked up a number of ideas to try when I get home from work . So well done to the OP and the rest of you.

A couple of points I would make from my experiences are that firstly, yes the options for team talks are limited and at times it is difficult to judge the right response because of how the options are worded. In a similar way to tactics I think, once you know what each option does in a specific context and in relation to other variables (ie player determination/professionalism; relationship to you; form/morale; opposition etc etc) then the choices become clearer. However on the face of it, there does seem to be a lack of clarity or certainty that X comment will equal Y result. Whether you think this is a good thing or not (ie much like whether you think the tactical sliders are a good way of representing tactical ‘choices’ or not) will probably depend on your level of experience in the game and how far in depth you have gone at researching or trial and error in this aspect of the game. It might also depend on what you think of what we have at the moment with regards to team talks (ie ‘the known’) versus what other format/variation team talks could take (ie ‘the unknown’).

My second point would be that how much significance your team talks have on your teams performance both in individual games and over the course of a full season is also dependent on other factors (ie relative quality of your team; your level of tactical knowledge/competence etc plus a bit of luck thrown in for good measure). So with this in mind it is probably still very possible to perform quite well without going into much micro-management with team talks (ie using mostly generic team talks or leaving them to your assman) so long as you have a pretty strong team and a good tactical understanding. However if you are missing one of these other ingredients too, then the overall result is likely to be more negative than positive. So as with tactics I think you can do reasonably well by having a reasonable knowledge and reasonable skill, but you will do much better if you ‘micro manage’ and put significant time into learning the subtleties of team talks and doing some trial and error type testing.

I still believe though, again as with tactics, there is further room for SI to refine the options and feedback to the player so that his/her choices are more logical and relevant to the situation (but not necessarily making it easier per se).

[Fredric Drum]

In my last match right now, I was up 4-0 at half time and went with "Pleased". We ended up with 6-0, and the comment at the end of the match was "Man City played superbly after half-time. Their manager worked wonders at the break". That's conclusive evidence that the talk works, although I'm a bit surprised.. I would normally go for "don't let your performance drop" given the context. Guess I just learned something.

The match was Man City (me) vs Middlesborough in season 1. Odds were Man City 1.67 (fav), Boro 4.50.

[AXERTYRE]

OMGGG, my last match I was up 3-0 half time away, went with nothing as usual as I dont want my performance to drop. Then somehow they came back to 3-3. So ****ed and I have no idea how this didn't work out.