ElJefe4

@crusadertsar Would love to see how you got on with this. I've tried to stay away from overly positional play this year despite the Match Engine leading us that way. Had success at Inter with a 4312 so would be really interested to see how you set up a 4222.

Sorry to bump a slightly old thread but this is a formation I've struggled against at times. I've got a save in Portugal with Benfica and our rivals Sporting play this way. I typically set up in a classic 433 and often found that they would have a numerical advantage in their build up which led them having high possession numbers. Even if my front 3 and 2 CMs committed to a press that's still only 5 players, meaning they'd often find it quite easy with their 7 (not including their keeper) to keep the ball. I'm not sure if this was an option for you because I can't see the possession on your screenshots, but it was very frustrating for me as we typically dominate the ball. One option I considered would be to press less/defend deeper in a bid to draw them out, invite the ball into midfield/forwards and win it back there, but I was already losing at this point and felt like I needed a more proactive approach. So in the end I went for a high man for man press. This is a risk and might not be viable for a full 90 minutes, but it changed the game for me. A few things to consider were: Which of my full backs is more offensive/defensive Which of my centre backs is more comfortable defending wide areas (typically the more mobile one) Which of my centre midfielders is more offensive/defenders I then instructed them to man mark as follows. Apologies but I can't actually remember off the top of my head, I may even have switched to a 424 sort of shape so my #6 was closer to the opposition DM. It's a lot riskier. If your defenders aren't great 1v1 you could be in trouble. Either way, the result was a much more aggressive and effective high press. If it's a case of having a lot of the ball but being unable to break down a back 5 then that's a different story, but my issue against this formation was getting the ball in the first place. Thankfully for me, being a possession based side, Sporting continued to try and play out of defence which gave us the opportunity to force high turnovers and counter quickly to score.

For the majority of the season the tactic used was something similar to this: Definitely need to make it more solid defensively if I do stick with Inter for season 2. Conceding 43 in 38 league games isn't terrible given the amount of goals we score, but it makes life very difficult in Europe. In total in the Champions League we played 12 games, scoring an impressive 32 but conceding 19. We simply can't win the biggest prize in European football if we can't shut up shop more effectively against the top sides. Transfers IN: Going into season 2 Inter already have some loanees that will join permanently. - Davide Frattesi joins from Sassuolo for £23 million. He was excellent this season, racking up the 3rd most minutes of any outfield player and contributing 6 goals and 13 assists. - Carlos Augusto joins permanently for £6.5 million after his loan from Monza. He was an able deputy to Dimarco, playing just over 2000 minutes and providing 10 assists, which is actually double that of our starting left back. - Marko Arnautovic is the final loanee who is joining on a permanent deal, £6.75 million from Bologna. Not particularly happy about spending this money on a 35 year old but there's nothing I can do about it. In his defence he somehow managed to hit double figures, scoring 11 times despite his limited minutes. He had the best mins per goal ratio in the squad, bagging every 82 minutes. - Guido Rodriguez joins on a free from Real Betis. I'm hoping his excellent Tackling, Anticipation, Positioning etc can help us defensively. Transfers OUT: - Juan Cuadrado (36 y/o), Matteo Darmian (34 y/o), Alexis Sanchez (35 y/o), Henrikh Mkhitaryan (35 y/o) and Stefano Sensi (28 y/o) are all moving on. Decent players but their contracts are expiring and I don't want to renew them given their age. There are areas of the squad that I need to improve, depth in midfield in particular. Much of our transfer business though will revolve around what happens in the #10 spot. Unfortunately I don't see a way in which the board sanction a move to make Kvaratskhelia's move permanent. The eye-watering £111 million it would take just isn't viable unfortunately. What comes next? That leaves me with a bit of a dilemma, do I: - Go back to the original plan with Calhanoglu as a classic #10? - Find another Trequartista that we can afford and make a permanent signing? - Move elsewhere?

End of season update Another update as I finally finish the season. Despite league form dropping off slightly in the last few games it was a brilliant season in Serie A. The most obvious positive being the amount of goals we scored. I said in my first post that if I couldn't get Martinez and Thuram scoring then I was doing something wrong, thankfully this wasn't an issue in the slightest. Goals dried up a bit for Martinez towards the end, only 6 in his last 16 of the season. The one we all want to see though is how our enigmatic Trequartista fared... 30 goals and 13 assists in an Inter shirt is not bad at all for the loanee! If I was going to really nit-pick I'd say it was a shame we didn't see more dribbling. His 19 dribbling and Runs With Ball Often player trait would suggest he should be doing this a lot. Worth remembering though that the above graphic is comparing him to wingers, whereas he played all of his minutes centrally. We also had an excellent run in the Champions League but were frustratingly undone by Man City's set pieces and departed at the semi final stage. Even more frustrating given that the final against Leipzig would have very winnable on paper. Did make a few tweaks in a couple of these games, defended deeper, set our passing to more direct. A couple of times swapped Thuram to a Target Forward and moved him to the right hand side of the strike partnership so that he was up against Lisandro Martinez in the United tie and Alaba in the Madrid tie.

Currently pondering ways of getting Hakan to play a more expansive role from deep. As I've previously mentioned, his Role/Duty in the current set up means he has a Cautious mentality. I may just add 'More Direct Passing' and 'Take More Risks' as PIs but I've just noticed something that I found slightly strange and thought would be worth sharing. Maybe people already know this but for anyone who doesn't - When in the DM strata as a Deep Lying Playmaker (Defend or Support duty) you can't increase the passing directness, whereas you can if he plays in the MC strata. Currently pondering (and would appreciate any opinions) the best balance. I want him to sit as the deepest midfielder, ideally picking the ball up from the centre backs and having the option to spray passes around the pitch. I think CM/Support/More Direct Passing/Take More Risks/Positive Mentality may be too attacking and could lead to too many unnecessary risks. From the other options, what do people think is most likely to produce what I'm looking for? EDIT - Ah, I forgot to check how the above was linked to Team Instructions. I had 'Shorter Passing' selected for the whole team, which was limiting what players in the DM strata could be asked to do. I've now removed it so the team passing directness sits at the default 'Slightly Shorter'. This now allows me to increase his Passing Directness and Passing Risk while in the DM strata. Still interested to get people's thoughts on Player Mentality though. How would a DLP in the DM strata on Defend with More Direct Passing and Take More Risks (Cautious Mentality) differ to a DLP/DM/Support Duty with the same instructions who has Positive Mentality? Are the differences going to be in how they use the ball, how far they advance up the pitch or both?

Thanks for the comment, really interesting ideas. I have actually had Focus Play Through the Middle along with a few other TIs, just hadn't done a follow up post to show them. I like the Christmas Tree formation idea. At the moment it would mean dropping Thuram who's a really good forward and playing another more defensive/central midfield player and, Barella aside, I haven't really got great options there. It's something I'll keep in mind when it comes to the summer transfer window though, although I think my chances of getting Kvara permanently are pretty slim anyway so it's quite difficult to plan at the moment. Yeah he probably would be. Taking a quick look at his attributes on FM he's got good First Touch, Long Shots, Passing, Technique, Vision and Flair and a couple of interesting Player Traits such as Tries Killer Balls Often and Tries Tricks. He's also got very good Pace, Stamina and Work Rate but doesn't have great Agility so I personally see him as a player who'd thrive more in big open spaces rather than the congested number 10 area. His decisions (13) would probably need to improve slightly to reach the really elite level, but no reason why he couldn't be a very good #10. Thanks mate! I use Screen To Gif, you can download it from here: https://www.screentogif.com/ Really simple and useful tool.

No PIs for the strikers, no. The only one I'd really consider is Stay Wider for Thuram so he moves into the left channel more, but I haven't felt that it is necessary yet. Just in case anyone is wondering, Thuram currently has 7 goals and 2 assists in 1,013 minutes (144.71 mins per goal), Martinez has 10 goals and 2 assists in 909 minutes (90.90 mins per goal).

Also, an update on Kvaratskhelia in the Trequartista role, which proves @De Nile's point about some #10s being more goal scorer than creator - He's been on fire. A few of his goals so far -

Definitely agree with this. At the moment I'm getting great returns from Kvara, but Hakan isn't having as much influence from the deeper role. He's got 4 goals and 5 assists in 12 games to be fair but they've all been set pieces. I'm not expecting him to be an assist machine from deep but I don't feel like I'm getting the most out of his: 18 Passing 17 Vision 17 Long Shots 17 Flair Tries Killer Balls Often PPM Tries Long Range Passes PPM The above scatter graph shows that he sits in the 'Low non-penalty expected goals' which is to be expected but also 'Low quality creating from open play' which isn't great. He does fare better when it comes to number of progressive passes though, which is pleasing. In the set up I posted above I have him playing as a Deep Lying Playmaker (Defend). This comes with Shoot Less Often hardcoded and also means he has a Cautious mentality. Probably not ideal when I want him to be one of my most creative players. The decision (not one I thought about in great detail) probably came from wanting a Defend duty in the middle of that midfield 3 to provide more defensive cover and create a diamond shape. I could change his duty to Support which would increase his mentality to Positive, but I'm not really a fan of having 3 Support duties in midfield and no Defend duties, especially when all 3 players ahead of the midfield and one of my full backs are on Attack duties. I feel like it could make us a bit too gung-ho, when in an ideal world I want the midfield 3 to be quite solid so the attacking 3 have as much freedom to attack as possible. Another option would be to swap Hakan and one of the outside central midfielders over, giving them a more defensive role and having Hakan in a more creative playmaker role on the side of the diamond, for example:

Didn't get much FM in over the weekend as I was away, but Kvaratskhelia has made a positive start in his Trequartista role. 5 goals in 2 games.

Thanks for the comment @NineCloudNine. I did share your fears, but I do have an unexpected first update to the thread which may change things slightly! When I set my heart on a particular tactical style, there's not much that changes my mind. I can quite happily ignore potentially interesting transfer opportunities that don't fit into my plan. However, every now and then an opportunity presents itself that may be too good to turn down. Paying just £10k per week wages to take Kvaratskhelia on loan for a year? Yes please. 19 dribbling, 19 first touch, 16 passing, 18 technique, 16 composure, 19 flair and 18 agility along with Tries Killer Balls Often, Tries Tricks and Runs With Ball Often. Mouth-watering prospect. As you'll see from the above screenshot, I've got the Trequartista role earmarked for him. The plan is to drop Calhanoglu into a deeper playmaker role and see if I can get the best out of both of them. Let's see how this plays out...

anemoia (uncountable) (neologism, uncommon) Nostalgia for a time or a place one has never known. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ In a footballing world increasingly dominated by the principles of Positional Play, the frequency with which I find myself down YouTube rabbit holes enjoying the greatest moments of some of the great playmakers of yesteryear increases. Whether it is Zinedine Zidane, Rui Costa, Juan Roman Riquelme, Francesco Totti or the countless others that I could name - there is something fascinating to me about these types of players. Players whose ability meant that their managers saw fit to grant them freedom to maximise their talents and impact the game however they could. I was born in the late 90s so unfortunately was not old enough to have seen these types of players at the absolute peak of their powers, yet still feel a sense of nostalgia when I think of them. I remember Ronaldinho's iconic goal at Stamford Bridge, Kaka's devastating first half display against Liverpool in Istanbul in 2005 and how Zidane's career ended in 2006, but I didn't have the pleasure of watching the best of Roberto Baggio or Michael Laudrup. It goes without saying then that those who are lucky enough to have watched these players would be able to identify their particular playing styles, strengths and weaknesses much more effectively than I ever could from a 10 YouTube minute clip celebrating Gheorghe Hagi, or the Maradona of the Carpathians, as he was dubbed. What I do know, however, is that I'd love to see a shift in footballing tactics towards allowing these individuals to express themselves fully again, free from the constrains of intense pressing structures and choreographed build up patterns. With that in mind I embark on my mission. To build a team that competes and wins at the highest level, of course. But to do it in a different way, by building around talented individual(s) given free reign to create, to score, and to capture the imagination of football fans around the world. The first decision then, is where to start? Most of the aforementioned players, along with many others that I could continue to reel off, played their football in Italy's Serie A. During the 1990s it was the strongest league in the world and although it doesn't quite have the same gravitas now, it seems the best place to start my journey. OK, so perhaps not the most challenging starting point given Inter's media prediction of 1st. In my defence though, my focus here is just as much how I win as it is if I win. I will also be using tactics that I'm unfamiliar with having previously almost exclusively played 433 or 442 variants so don't mind giving myself some leeway by picking a stronger side. As a side note, I have an ambition of winning Serie A with each of Italy's '7 sisters', with the possible exception of Lazio as I don't like them. It was also preferable that I came into a team that had a number 10 who we could build around. No doubt there are players on the market, but I thought why not jump straight in with a ready made playmaker? As many of you will have guessed, for Inter that man is Hakan Calhanoglu. This man has all the ingredients to succeed: First Touch & Technique Vision & Passing Set Pieces Flair Tries Killer Balls Often PPM His shortcomings also intrigue me. Despite being naturally fit he is not blessed with incredible physicality. He isn't strong, he isn't quick, he's not a natural dribbler a la Maradona or Messi. You may note that I have highlighted the 'Enganche' role, as his mixture of attributes remind me of Juan Roman Riquelme. The videos I have watched of Riquelme suggest that he was in fact a good dribbler, but that perhaps this wasn't his biggest weapon. His major strength seemed to lie in his speed of though, vision and passing. Enganche is an intriguing role that I have never used before in FM. I am slightly worried about how influential Calhanoglu will be given that he will be instructed to 'Hold Position' against opposition that will typically set up with at least 1 DM. In the brief research I have done, the most common formations that managers went for to get the best out of these players were: 41212 / 4312 - a trio of midfielders behind the 10 who would look to control the game and do much of the defensive work and 2 strikers ahead for the 10 to link up with with full backs providing width. 352 / 3412 - a back 3 variation that allows the wingbacks to push further on and perhaps combats some of the lack of width in the often narrow diamond set-up. Both options consist of 2 strikers. Given that Calhanoglu will be starting as a more stationary Enganche that I don't expect to burst into the box too often, the goalscoring burden will fall heavily on the shoulders of these 2 men. This isn't uncommon, for example, although Zidane produced his best goalscoring return at Juventus in 1997/98 with 11 goals, it was Del Piero and Inzaghi who scored the vast majority, with a combined 61. In Thuram and Martinez we have 2 incredibly well rounded strikers both with attributes of 14 or above for Dribbling, Finishing, First Touch, Heading, Long Shots, Technique, Anticipation, Flair, Off the Ball, Acceleration, Agility, Balance and Pace. In short, if I can't get these 2 scoring regularly then I'm doing something very wrong! With Thuram I have gone with Complete Forward (Attack) to make use of his hold up play (16 strength) and dribbling ability (16 dribbling). Martinez is a more simple Advanced Forward (Attack). The midfield and defence is a tricky one for me as I am not used to playing without players in the AMR/MR and AML/ML slots. My first thought for the 4312 is as follows: Sommer suits being a Sweeper Keeper as he is excellent at rushing off his line. He is also adept with his feet and can help us play out from the back. Bastoni and Pavard are both incredibly comfortable on the ball (15 & 15 Passing, 15 & 14 Vision, 14 & 14 First Touch) so the Ball Playing Defender role makes sense. The full backs will be essential in this tactic. Di Marco is a more well rounded technical player so I have given him the Complete Wing Back (Support) role in the hope that he helps more in build up, I've given him the PI to Cross More Often to make use of his impressive 18 crossing. Dumfries on the right is more technically limited but very fast, strong and aggressive. He's been given a more basic Full Back (Attack) role and has been instructed to Stay Wider. The lack of a top class DM means I've gone for a flat 3 across midfield with the experienced, hard working and mentally strong Davy Klaasen as the 'sitter' with the simple role of Central Midfielder (Defend). Nicolo Barella is a world class Box to Box midfielder who I hope can drive us forward as much as possible. I was initially going to choose Ball Winning Midfielder with the idea that the 3 behind Calhanoglu would do the dirty work. But I thought a more dynamic role would be better in case Calhanoglu is struggling to impact the game. Davide Frattesi is a very well rounded player but not as dynamic as Barella so I've gone with the more simple Carrilero role in the hope that he can knit things together and provide defensive cover when Dumfries bombs on. That leads me onto my Team Instructions. The idea here is to keep TIs to a minimum as I feel as though it goes against my wish to grant players more freedom. I have some basic ones with the aim of encouraging us to keep a good amount of possession, but I don't want to slow things down to the extent that we fall into games of attack vs defence against low blocks that stifle natural creativity. I'll be honest I'm unsure about my OoP instructions. I don't want to go with an intense high press but I do want to remain compact and be difficult to play through once the opposition reaches our midfield. As with most other instructions, I'll see how this goes and tweak if needed. Thanks for reading so far. If anyone has any thoughts on any of the above, constructive criticism is always welcome (and probably needed!). Likewise if anyone is on a similar path and wants to document their own tactical thoughts, feel free to use this thread as I'll probably post a few updates of my progress and tweaks as I go. Cheers!

Can't wait for this! Been trying to implement a Brazilian style 4222 in FM24 but struggled to succeed with any possession based system that doesn't look to build up in a 235/325.

I'm in 2028 with Benfica and I'm blessed with a number of really talented attacking players. I've reached a level of dominance domestically that means the only real challenge is seeing how many of my attacking talents I can fit into the same side. I'm currently testing what is effectively a 3-3-4 and it got me thinking what are the most attacking formations that people have been able to have genuine success with? How many world class creative/attacking players have people been able to fit into one system? I'd love to read an actual breakdown of why the tactic is effective/makes sense in real terms. I've got no interest in 'gamey' or 'OP' tactics that seek solely to overwhelm the Match Engine.