[4-3-3: Can you improve my tactic?]

On 02/03/2021 at 17:51, Experienced Defender said:

 

2. Defensive instructions are extremely aggressive and needlessly so (even if you don't care about defensive risks, you need to know that it can adversely affect your attacking play as well)

 

Thanks for your suggestions, can you explain what you mean by this? How do my defensive instructions effect my attacking?

[4-3-3: Can you improve my tactic?]

Can I get some advice on how to improve this tactic please?

 

[Tactic advice - my left winger no longer plays well]

2 hours ago, Hartplatz said:

I don't think I'm more knowledgable than you, and I sometimes struggle with similar issues, but looking at your tactic, two things come to mind:

1. Get stuck in as a TI. It doesn't suit Mbappe with his average work rate and low aggression, and it also doesn't suit your possession-minded setup with much shorter passing. You want to stay on your feet as much as possible.

2. You might have to lower your expectations. In your tactic, Mbappe is not set up to be your main goalscoring threat, and you might just decide that within the context of your obviously successful tactic, that's fine. But if you were to move him to the W-At spot on the right, I guarantee he's going to bang in goals left, right and center, because he's going to attack the box more directly in the final third, especially with his cuts inside trait.

As things stand, your right winger will always outshine your left winger, because he's going to take away the spotlight with his fancy goals and a tactic that's trying to create space for him. And in a squad full of talent, not everyone gets to be in the spotlight. Changing the IF-Su to an IF-At or even a Raumdeuter however, as you already did, is going to alter the balance of your tactic, and it might be a little to stale if you came up against deep formations that are trying to congest space.

Thank you for your advice. I just find it a little bit strange that he was scoring for fun in this role and this system and then all of a sudden stopped. 

[Tactic advice - my left winger no longer plays well]

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to help me. So some context, I won the Premier League and Champions League last season with Liverpool and this tactic below was working amazingly well.

Then Kylian Mbappe (who played inside forward (support) on the left wing) got injured around February time and after scoring something like 20 goals in 20 games, he stopped scoring when he came back from injury (about a 4-week injury nothing major) and was consistently having 6.5 and below ratings for the rest of the season. 

I went into the new season with a few ideas how to fix it and for the first time in my career, I am stumped having tried and tinkered with many tactics over the last four years with great success. 

I have tried changing Robertson to wing back attack and complete wing back attack. I have tried different passing tempo and directness, I have tried attacking. The main thing I have noticed is the left winger plays very deep. I have tried Inside forward attack, inverted winger support and attack, raumdeuter, winger, tried them as three strikers up front with poachers and advanced forward and not really seen any sustained improvement. I have tried Camavainga as DLP as the LCM. Tried Dybala as a DLF. 

I was hoping someone with more knowledge than me can explain why my left winger whether it is Mbappe, Fati or Mane never play well on the left wing now despite consistent high performances the season before. 

Obviously something is wrong with the tactic despite it working amazingly last season and absolutely destroying teams. 

Screenshots of everything below. Let me know if i can provide any more information. 

[Does the FM full release fixes affect my Beta save?]

Now the full game is released, if I play a match on my beta save, will any match engine fixes they've done be implemented in my beta save or will my beta save still have the 'beta match engine" because it was started using the beta editor data files. 

So let's for example say the beta had a problem with lots of goals coming from crosses and Sports Interactive fixed it for the full game, would my beta save still have the 'problem' because I haven't started a new save on the full game with the new files or will the 'issue' be fixed?

[Strikers choking in big games]

15 hours ago, dazza11 said:

If I’m completely honest your front 3 looks a bit of a mess - Salah/Mane as poachers looks a bit of a waste of their talents.

A poacher is there to hang on the last defender and score goals but they are not designed to be involved in build up play etc . yes those two are quick but they are probably being under-utilised as poachers. 
Origi as a F9 also seems a poor fit. F9 is a technical role and he’s far from suited to that IMO.

Also you are using very high LOE & DL so u are effectively camping between the half way line and their box, combined with extremely urgent prob just makes the whole thing very frantic with little space for your forwards to operate in when you do win the ball back. If you really want Salah and Mane running in behind, I’d drop ur LOE at least a notch prob 2. 

Interesting I haven't thought about that but I will say Salah scored 35 goals in all comps for me and we won the prem and UCL with this tactic! Something isn't right about my tactic in big games it maybe my line of engagement. 

[Strikers choking in big games]

13 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

I like your setup of roles and duties 

Instructions look fine as well (except for overly aggressive defensive ones, but okay)  

 

Unfortunately, this non-tactical stuff is not really my "area of expertise", so someone with more knowledge about that aspect of the game will hopefully jump in to offer some advice  

 

I don't know, maybe. You can certainly try. Although both Mane and Salah should be mentally strong enough to cope with pressure. 

Thank you for the advice I appreciate it!

[Strikers choking in big games]

1 hour ago, Mr. Buttons said:

I agree with Sarmatian's comment above. I had the same frustration when I first started playing FM20 and I thought my strikers were broken. They were missing 1on1s regularly against weaker goalkeepers, missing clear cut chances, headers, etc. Then all of a sudden I'll score a goal out of a nonsense deflection, free kick or corner.

Basically it's just the FM20 engine compensating for the lack of solid defending so it forces your players to miss those easy chances. It's very frustrating because when you see those chances you're all proud of your tactic only to see your strikers miss all the chances you created. Afterwards, it's very confusing what to tweak next because it's total nonsense to see so many chances created with such little conversion rate.

Edit: Typo.

Ok thanks anything wrong with my tactic for big games?

[Strikers choking in big games]

1 hour ago, Sarmatian said:

FM20 or FM21 beta?

I don't know the situation in FM21, but in FM20, I'd say it is simply a match engine issue and not something you can do much about. Defensive positioning, marking, covering is atrocious, so in compensation strikers will miss easy chances much more often then they should.

Places shots PPM can help mitigate the situation a bit, but only a bit. Don't expect wonders. Rounding goalkeepers can help a bit more in my experience, but it is only effective when strikers are through on goal, with no defender pressure. If it is just shots it won't do much.

Also, you can take screenshots in steam by pressing F12 and in Epic games by pressing ALT+S.

Ok thank you, it is the FM21 Beta

[Strikers choking in big games]

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, with an F9 between them, it makes sense (unlike 2 lone poachers). However, I still need to see the tactic as a whole. Because tactical elements are very much interrelated and none works in isolation. While your striker combo (PO-F9-PO) looks okay in and of itself, it still needs to be compatible with the rest of your tactic.

Now... if they really miss those CCCs only in big matches, then the problem might not be (entirely) tactical but perhaps associated with something else, at least in part (e.g. pep talks, press conferences and stuff like that). 

 

[Strikers choking in big games]

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, with an F9 between them, it makes sense (unlike 2 lone poachers). However, I still need to see the tactic as a whole. Because tactical elements are very much interrelated and none works in isolation. While your striker combo (PO-F9-PO) looks okay in and of itself, it still needs to be compatible with the rest of your tactic.

Now... if they really miss those CCCs only in big matches, then the problem might not be (entirely) tactical but perhaps associated with something else, at least in part (e.g. pep talks, press conferences and stuff like that). 

Ok thank you, leading up to the game I said "I'm always confident, we looked good in training" and "I'd never pin all my hopes on a single player" in the press conference and said to my players something like "we've been on a good run of form show me what you can do"

Should I say to my forwards, "the pressure is off" or something?

Attached my tactic screenshots

 

[Strikers choking in big games]

4 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

You should have attached a screenshot of your tactic instead. Only the tactic as a whole can provide us with a proper context to be able to offer some useful advice. Otherwise, we can only speculate, which is always misleading. 

 

Wait a minute... your tactic involves 2 poachers playing alongside each other or you play both Salah and Mane in the poacher role but not at the same time? 

I'll try get a screenshot when I can but im open to any speculative guesses you have in the meantime.

I play three strikers: Mane left forward Poacher, Origi false 9 in the centre and Salah right forward Poacher.

[Strikers choking in big games]

My strikers (Salah and Mane both on poacher) are missing easy chances in big matches.

I've attached two videos as an example. Before you say "strikers miss chances, it happens", I had about four or five of these chances in the first half of this game alone and didn't score any and it happens every big game, not just one big game.

This is a common theme for Mane and Salah in big matches for me. 

Against smaller teams they are lethal and scoring for fun. I don't have any extra player instructions on them than the ones assigned by their poacher roles. 

Is there a reason why they score more in smaller games than bigger games and can I effect it? They get the same similar chances, if not easier in big games but their conversion rate is so poor. 

I've tried attacking movement and chance conversion training before matches. Salah has "places shots" ppm, Mane doesn't, but they place shots v smaller teams but rush and lose their composure despite high composure and finishing attributes, in big matches.)

Is there a way I can get them to be more composed and finish off these easy chances in big games please? 

Tactic screenshots are lower down in the replies.

Let me know if you have any questions. My friend suggested to use shouts to encourage them when they miss which Ill try but seems a long shot. 

I've thought about taking off be more expressive in big matches? Don't know if that will have an impact.