Cry havoc
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Posts posted by Cry havoc
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27 minutes ago, knap said:
I would ignore ratings as generally a mess. If the team is winning then they are not carrying dead wood.
Example
Interesting. My concern was that the players in question were in some way unsuited to the tactic, even though they had suitable attributes for their role. Have you found any imbalance with regard to wingers performance?
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After trying the Beowulf 424 IW and the Paris 4231 SS I found certain positions consistently struggled, even when the rest of the team was doing well. In Beowulf the DLP would typically get rated at around 6.5, while in the Paris 4231 the SS would tend towards 6.0 unless assisting or scoring.
Furthermore, the AML would perform nowhere near as well as the AMR in both tactics. Looking over some of the other tactics above this looks like a recurring issue. What could cause this? Would it be worth spending less on these off positions if the tactic or match engine constrain them?0 -
I've been playing these games for over 10 years and have just experienced my biggest loss in that time. The manner and context of it has left me genuinely shocked, and it was so far outside the realms of expectation that I'm struggling to understand it. Hopefully someone here can offer an explanation for why things went the way they did.
Full Disclosure: super casual player, managing transfers and personnel but using a Knap tactic: Tactic. Essentially a wind things up and see how they go approach.
Heading in to the game I was on an 8 match winning streak, including a penalties win away to United in the Carabao Cup.
Manchester United were 1 place above me at 2nd in the table, also doing well results wise
Team cohesion was low following a squad revamp, but wasn't having a huge impact on results/performances. Team morale was high, although Fabian Schar was sulking over not playing enough and this led to a team meeting with 3 other supporting players that did not go well. Personal experience in recent years of the series has been that even unhappy fringe players can have disproportionate impact on results, so this may have been a significant contributor.
Below is how we fared in the Carabao Cup game, it looked like a competitive performance.
....and this is the match that forced me here.
3-0 down inside 10 minutes, all 10 goals scored by United without a shot on target in response. It was similar to watching a team 2 or more players down against a significantly better side, or playing a striker in goal.
I've had big losses before and was prepared for another here, even taking good form in to account, but not like this. The best explanation I can think of is a revenge drive, combined with a stronger league determination versus my morale blip. Even then, it's a very hard result to take, Any ideas what happened here?0 -
I'm attempting to get reports on a large number of players in as short a time as possible but the game won't allow me to spread individual assignments around the entirety of the scouting team.
I have 13 scouts and I've canceled all their general assignments but whenever I request a report or even if I select the specific scout I want to generate the report the game will only assign the top 3 scouts of my team, overwriting any scout selection I make.
Is it possible to spread assignments evenly? Even with full scouting responsibility control I can't get the game to cooperate.
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A questionable decision
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In my Arsenal career Aubameyang's morale won't raise above Excellent regardless of personal/team performance or manager interaction. I've seen this happen consistently across several different careers and don't understand why this is the case, Anyone know what's going on?
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1 hour ago, Jessica Jung said:
Did you made any tweaks on tactic and can you share it with us?
It should be quoted and linked at the top of the post, but if it's not showing for some reason then the tactic is the first Sympathy 4222 on the front page (KnapZaipLeipzig).
I made no tweaks to the tactic, the only notes I'd make is that I played wrong-foot wingers and trained every player in the position/role I wanted them to play. Right-foot wingers might do better, I've not tried myself. Aubamayeng began as the Pressing Forward (Support) but shifted to the Advanced Forward (Attack) fairly early in the season, can't remember why I made that decision but probably Alex getting injured.
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On 23/10/2018 at 13:30, knap said:
SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL
442 (4222) Sympathy for the Devil (Top sub top underdog)
FM20SympathyforthedevilKnapZaipLeipzig.fmf44.
Recently finished a full watched season of the tactic above as Arsenal in 20.2 with no incoming transfers (Mesut Özil loaned to Manchester United for the season).
Almost a clean sweep. The Carabao Cup final was lost to one of those inspiring half-time team talks according to the news.
Quite a few draws that could easily have been wins. Arsenal were ahead in the majority of them, including throwing away a 4 goal lead in one game.
Nelson and Saka did well on the wings despite still developing, as with the WULF 4132 in the previous patch. The standout being Aubameyang who was impressive all season (high win bonuses motivated him, not sure how big an effect that had).
Long Throws
Before this career I managed a season on a tweak of this tactic in the previous version of the game, mostly in Extended Highlights. There would be around 4 or 5 events a game involving the long throws but the majority of them didn't lead to much; sometimes an offside from knock on, sometimes the opposition would break from them and get a good chance against me. Here and there they worked out, sometimes directly, sometimes forcing fouls in the box, but overall they didn't feel that effective and I began to feel the instructions might not help the tactics performance.
In this career, watched only on Key, they definitely helped. Some were turned in directly, I saw more forcing penalties and there were games that were decided by them. That said, they were irregular - I could go for several games without them even featuring in the Key highlights, let alone impacting the game in a major way. So, not quite an exploit but still effective in my opinion - again, I'd recommend adding the instructions to the tactics that don't have them like the WULF 4132 and see if things change. I've looked around for stats relating to set-pieces in-game but could only find penalties.
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9 minutes ago, Rober82 said:
Not for me no. Im using said 4222 knapzaipleipzig and 0 registered assist from throw ins. They do try to use long throws in to the box, and sometimes a header and a rebound creates a chance. But not often, and would not say its exploit.
I may have misspoke in calling it an outright exploit but it certainly felt like a notable advantage compared to the default throw in instructions that accompany the WULF 4132s. That could well have been an observation bias - the AI never uses long throws against the player in my experience, there's been long throw exploits in the past and I wouldn't have noticed goals scored from non-long throw ins because they don't stand out as much as long throws do.
Regrettably I've since started over again and have no stats to show for the 4222. The chances I saw created were as you describe mostly - overall it looked to me like long throws were a challenge for defenders to cope with, and goals scored may not have come directly from the throw itself but more as a result of the trouble they caused.
I was going to try the 20.2 4132 but I'll take a longer look at the 4222 again instead, give it a season without touching the set-piece instructions and report back later.
All that said, I feel it's important for comparison purposes to test the 4132 with the long throw set-pieces added or the 4222 without them, otherwise it's an undeniable variable between the two and potentially a significant one.
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8 hours ago, knap said:
This tactic has no Long Throw set-piece, like the WULF 4132 I tried before it. Both left and right attacking throws are set to default.
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I'm a little unsure about the 4222.
What immediately stood out was the long-throw set pieces which all opposition teams struggled to deal with. As far as I know this wasn't present in the WULF 4132, and it felt more like an exploit than a very strong tactic. Personally, I'm not comfortable with that and would happily sacrifice the best results if getting them meant the football being played didn't look good. Once I turned the set-piece set up off the tactics performance dipped considerably. I'd be interested in seeing how well the 4222 tests without that set-piece instruction compared to the tactics that don't lean on it.
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Like I said, I'll be trying the 4222 next and see how that goes
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I hadn't considered trying WBs instead of Wingers, might give that a try in the future.
I will say that it's very odd to me that the 4132 tactic has been the strongest in testing, I would have expected tactics that use AMR/L to be a much better fit for most teams and the top end of the database as a whole. Going to try the 4231 next and see how that goes, it certainly looks like a better fit for the Arsenal squad on a new start.
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I've been using 4132 WULF P102 with Arsenal and it's been very successful, for the most part.
However, I've found the wingers struggle to perform and I'm unsure what type of players I should be looking to play there. The tactics designation is Defensive Wingers, which are almost non-existent. On top of that, the vast majority of wingers, particularly at the top end, tend to be Inside Forwards or Inverted Wingers which is an issue as, to my understanding at least, the ML/MR positions appear to ask for same-side footed players. Any advice?
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What's up with the 'Player could do with a rest' news items this year?
The only link from these is to an interaction with the player, which doesn't actually put anything in to action, and to send them on a holiday you have to track down the Rest section which I could have sworn was linked in the news item last year.
Surely the previous set-up was better? It's not as if there's a lack of space on these news items for further guidance.
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How is that system working out? Something I noticed over the course of the season was that our goals were all very similar to one another. Walcott/Chamberlain only scored when played through as the opposition defense moved up leaving them clean through. Ozil can't score to save his life and Cazorla was largely underwhelming, occasionally popping up with moments of brilliance but generally a pedestrian.
It all came down to Giroud, who fortunately had the quality to carry all that weight on his shoulders, although when he had an off day things got tough. I can't say for sure but it felt as though most of his goals came off his head - which is fine in terms of getting the result, but not what I'd like to see in an ideal world. Ozil didn't really shine all that often, so I'm wondering if the Treq role changes this? Looking back on it now, as an AP Ozil would roam around keeping things moving as instructed but wasn't the man playing the final ball in often enough
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Dear Llama3,
Thank you for this thread. After reading through, I feel I have a much better idea of how to go about building a tactic around the available players and the balance required by duties. That said, I still seem to be struggling.
Not wanting to jump in at the deep end and being fond of Arsenal regardless, I've opted to attempt to replicate the tactics outlined in the OP. I've started over a number of times trying to get this right and have come up against a number of recurring problems.
-Home form seems fine but away form is significantly harder to maintain. Regardless of the mentality - Control, Standard or Counter - the team finds it a lot harder to control possession away from home, even against sides a division below. I've watched Away games through on Full Match, tweaking team instructions back and forth, without success in this regard.
-Following on from the Away difficulties above, when watching games in Full I feel more than a little uncertain what changes I should be making to improve my teams performance. Some aren't too difficult to spot - e.g if we're getting quickly closed down I'll increased the pace, if the opposition seems to be slipping through the back line I'll pull the defense deeper - but the overall way these instructions and Mentality all come together seems really unclear to me, in some circumstances it seems as though I could actually benefit from raising the Mentality rather than dropping it but I simply don't feel confident about what needs to be done.
-'Push Higher Up' has proven to be tactical suicide in general. If the opposition aren't moving the ball around quickly then it seems a pressing game is required, and it makes sense that 'Push Higher Up' and 'Hassle Opponents' go well as you outline in the OP, but Away from home this leads to lethal balls over or through my defense and has also been incredibly risky even at home, regardless of the quality of the opposition. Combined with poor possession control, this can cause me to lose friendly Away games against teams a division below. Is this a weakness in the formation, the team, or just something that should be avoided altogether?
If you don't mind, I would also like to get your advice on making a 4-2-3-1 formation work. Assigning duties for this formation is a puzzle: the only players out wide are the DR and DL but putting them both to WB/A seems incredibly risky. The two CMs I'm unsure about too - xx/D and xx/S seems the way to go but if the WBs are both A then it also seems like both CMs should be on Defend duty to compensate. Finally, assigning the duties and roles for 3 AMCs is a conundrum in itself - all Support seems a little too conservative, all attack counter-productive - can you have too many APs? I'm at a loss really and am beginning to believe the formation is deeply flawed regardless of roles or duty
Sincerely,
Cry havoc
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Posted
Interesting that the strikers are doing so well. Across a handful of attempts with that tactic I've found that the AF will go missing for weeks at a time. The KASHMIR 451 with the false 9 felt more consistent in this regard, with the striker frequently involved even when not getting on the scoresheet themselves.