[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

Sorry for the delay, have been busy with school but will try and have it updated as soon as possible. 

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

I will upload a version of this tactic for FM19 this weekend.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

I will continue this thread for FM18 within the next few weeks.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

43 minutes ago, mcc6232 said:

 I have seen the slider but I cannot move it and I have also seen in a couple of videos that there should be a couple of tick boxes that do not appear on my game. 

Would this be a bug with my game as I cannot move the slider. I am in charge of all the training FYI

If your team is only part-time/semi pro then it doesn't let you.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

19 hours ago, Marci said:

Hi, I´ve played with the "old" striker tactic and this tactic was amazing. I promoted with st Pauli and in the second saison i finished at 7th place. Now I´m managing Borussia dortmund and my question is: Do you think that the "new" strikerless tactic will work with teams like dortmund or ManU? Another question: You added a new version with 2 CM instead of BWM: Do you think that this "new" version works better as the "old" one with the BWM? Because my doubts are that CMs don´t press as aggressive/well as BWMs. 

Thanks in advance!

Either or but I feel it is hard to find a good BWM that can also offer something going forward also the BWM's will not sit in front of the defence when the team is defending deep, when you are deep in your own half you want your cm's to sit narrow and hold the teams shape and when the opposition have the ball out wide they aggressively press the ball. It is up to you whatever you think is better but I prefer the CM/s tactic as it has more a resemblance to Simeone's system.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

8 hours ago, bcn said:

Playing with the updated strikerless tactic and absolutely loving it !! Good job. 

I have a couple of questions though Mr. OhhScottySinclair: The central midfield players have a BWM-role, but should I still consider them as a DLP and BBM according to the player description in your opening post or go for a typical hardworking BWM?

Do you still train them as the role they play in or according to PI's? Let's take the above mentioned midfield players as an example, should they be trained in their position as BWM or rather according to actual PI's as DLP/BBM?

Thanks in advance.

I would set their roles as CM/S, have one hold position the other roam from position, leave the closing down on sometimes and train them into these roles as I feel it better replicates Simeone's system as the CM's will not get dragged out of position and hold their shape whilst contributing to the attack more.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

6 hours ago, matsnor21 said:

Wich matchpreparation and individual training do u USE ?

If I am the favourite team I will set it to attacking, if I'm the underdog I will set it to defending and the overall training I set to balanced or team cohesion.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

1 hour ago, enders357 said:

I'm having some problems, and maybe you guys can help. I'm playing something very similar to the main tactic here (not the strikerless one) and in my first two games I've conceded lots - and I mean lots - of chances (I was 2-0 down inside 6 minutes of my first match, away at Las Palmas!). I can understand some of the issues and I'm sure they'll generally get better as the team becomes more familiar with the tactic, but the two issues I wanted your thoughts/advice on are:

1) My wide midfielders are far too wide when we don't have the ball (see screenshot). I can't figure this out; the team is set to "narrow", we're not using tight marking so they shouldn't be attracted to the opposing wingers, their WM role and PIs don't ask them to close down or mark tightly. I'm baffled. 

2) The strikers don't drop in enough to help the midfield and so we keep getting overrun. I know you have the strikerless formation for this reason, but has anyone found a way to make at least one striker, playing in the striker position come deeper and help out defensively. Atleti IRL have one drop right in, while the other stays on the half-way line to provide the quick out-ball.

Either set the in game man marking for the strikers to mark the opposition CM's or use the SS tactic and make sure the OI's are set and the oppositions wingers marking is set to "Never".

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

2 hours ago, enders357 said:

Read this wth interest as I've been using something similar with Monaco, and playing a 4-4-1-1.

One question @OhhScottySinclair; when you use the strikerless one who are you playing in those SS roles - still Griezmann and Gameiro? How are they doing in terms of goals scored? Do you retrain them for that position/role?

And a second question actually; why are you choosing WMs over WPs and Ws? Is it because they sit narrower when defending? It feels to me like Koke would be a WP-A, and perhaps on the other flank you'd want a winger, but maybe the WMs with the PIs you've given are achieving the same thing as those other duties with the ball, but offer more defensively without the ball? Apologies if I've missed an explanation of this in a previous post.

I still use the same strikers but retrain them to the SS position and after a season or so they are competent with the role, they may score slightly less goals but the entire team seems to contribute more and the SS tactic overall is more solid.

I chose to use WM's as they offer more defensively and help keep the team shape and you can achieve similar roles to the WP and Wingers with the amount of PI's that can be selected, another reason I don't use the WP is that a playmaker attracts the ball more and will become the teams main creative outlet whilst I prefer the responsibility of creating goals to lay on the entire team.

 

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

2 hours ago, azug57 said:

 HERE Simeone' s Real Atletic Tactic 

Formation 4-4-2

Team Shape - Fluid

Mentality - Standart

Team Instructions - Look for overlap,  Push Higher Up, Get Stuck in, Stick to Positions, Higher Tempo

Player Roles

                                               Norrmal GK

 

FB Atack               CD Defence                  CD Defence                   FB Suport

 

Winger Suport     MC Defence                MC Suport                 Winger Suport

 

    Trequartista or (Complate Forward atack)                 Advanced Forward

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

56 minutes ago, tote said:

Using strikerless version with Real Valladolid in La Liga (In the second division at the start of the game), and without any important transfer we are able to compete with all the other teams, also Barcelona and Real Madrid. A very solid tactic @OhhScottySinclair. When mentality is well chosen, team defensive behaviour is absolutely amazing, great job 

Cheers mate, glad you enjoy.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

22 minutes ago, ShaneBailey said:

I've been using this for a few games now and it's amazing at home (regularly creating at leave 6 or 7 CCCs), but its absolutely horrendous away from home. Are there any changes you'd make away from home? I've just played Liverpool and I had 32% possession and they had 42 shots, only 14 from distance.

Play on a standard/counter mentality and put the wingbacks on support.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

4 minutes ago, heisenburglar said:

I bought a new core from Celtic of O'Connell, Ajer and Dembele which was my whole budget, but solid as I'm sure you'll attest

 

Built something similar with a Standard mentality and nearly kept out champions Spurs and won convincingly at Goodison, so looks like it's working!

100%, I wonder what the bookies are giving for a Dembéle top scorer      

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

1 hour ago, heisenburglar said:

Thanks for this, I've been looking for some guidance on a 442 for my Birmingham City game when we've just been promoted but I've had to resort to plug and play tactics which feels like cheating and I hate playing with more than 10 instructions!

Are there any changes you'd specifically make for a newly promoted team? My media prediction is 19th as probably half the team is the one I started with, which was predicted 10th in the Championship.

I usually default to Cleons Art of Counter Attacking 4-1-4-1 but wanted to try something different. Either way, I'll read it and build something, although got the top 6 in a row next so not expecting much.....!

Pray and counter attack , if you use the striker formation get atleast one of your strikers to man mark the opposition CM's and try to strengthen your CB's and Forwards, if you have an sort of cash I strongly recommend Moussa Dembéle consistent 20 goals a season in any league, Good luck mate.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

3 hours ago, Time_Consumer said:

I'm really confused by which is which regaring the downloads at the end of OP. All 4? 

There is a tactic with forwards and a tactic without forwards which is better and resembles Atletico's playing style more as the strikers get more involved in the build up and track back further than the half way line.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

4 hours ago, tote said:

Hi,

@OhhScottySinclair, how do you react if you are loosing the game? Do you change something?

Increase mentality and defensive line.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 21:06, shonaxxx said:

none of this tactics works for me. In my first season i used  "date 442" tactics and won the Romanian league, then in the second season i bought better players and guess what? i finished 3rd. Now in the 3rd season i want a new 442 tactic but this isnt working. I conceded  lots of goals, especially from the corners    

EDIT: did a little cheating, and went on holiday 7 games, and my assisstant manager won all of team (with this tactic), so in the end ive won the league.

P.S. indeed, it's Diego Simeone tactics, i've lost 2 cup finals :))

You can't say the tactics do not work when you have won the league twice, have you set the OI's and signed the right players for the tactical requirements, I feel I have recreated Simeone's philosophy as well as I can in the game. I have even experimented with different formations with the same defensive concept and still won league titles and over achieved with poorer teams.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

5 hours ago, Helmut said:

Hi,

last season i've used your new strikerless tactic in Athletic Bilbao team, with very good results. Finished 2nd in La Liga, 4 points behind Atletico, and 2 points ahead Barcelona and Real. Because of low squad depth, i've decided to play Copa del Rey and Europa League using many backup players and youngsters. It helped me stay focused on my main goal.

I'm curious to read about comparing your home and away results. My team was the only team that has won more points away from San Mames, than at home. As you recommended, i've created two tactic's. First with control mentality, used at home, and counterattacking used away. Maybe changing match preparation training should give me more home domination? Any  ideas?

Second season for me seems more difficult, because i'm not able to keep my all best players at the club, and Champions League matches force me to use greater number of squad rotations.

I've been managing St.Pauli ended up winning the Bundesliga and remained unbeaten away from home  my only defeats were at home as well (loses to Schalke, Hoffenheim and RB Leipzig). for training all I'd say is make sure you have as much high rated coaches as you can which makes a difference and set the match preparation on teamwork when the tactic is fluid.

 

I have been using this tactic at home with a lot of success if you want to try it.

Home St.Pauli_19171858-51AA-4205-99E9-7B9C5C6E5793.fmf

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

On ‎25‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 10:00, coach vahid said:

Hi 

I test your strikeless but the mentality is on control...do I have to change it?

If you are the better team at home play on control and away from home play on standard/counter.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

On ‎13‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 02:34, Kcinnay said:

I use a strikerless tactic because it's not possible to make strikers defend deep without making them mark a CM. The downside of playing strikerless is that the two most advanced players (my 'strikers') don't exactly behave like strikers when we're in possession. Even my SS acts too much as a playmaker. Here, you can see my tactic and the TI.

As you may see, I got my inspiration from Simeone too. My fullbacks are conservative though, they probably could play a bit more attacking, but then again, my squad is quite weak, so at the moment, I don't want to experiment too much, since things are going well. My defence is as deep as possible, since my CB's aren't that fast. If I push up a bit, I almost immediately get caught on a break. With a stronger squad, I'd play a bit higher than I would now.

PI are as follows:

GK (SKa): tackle harder, more direct passes, long kicks, distribute to AMCL (Ideally a GK who's good on high balls, command of area, reflexes and rushing out)

RB and LB (FBs): more risky passes, cross more often, cross aim far post, run wide with ball, close down much more (Quick FB's with good tackling)
CB's (CDd): more direct passes, close down much less (Tall CB's who have a good sense of positioning too)

RM and LM (WMa): roam from position, more risky passes, cross more often, cross aim far post (Inverted wingers who are quick and good in passing, dribbling and crossing)
CM (CMd): mark tighter, more direct passes (A tall holder with a good pass, a workhorse)
CM (CMs): mark tighter, hold position, more direct passes, more risky passes (A playmaker with good workrate)

AM (SSa): tackle harder, mark tighter, more direct passes, close down much more (A hard working dribbler, quick, good finisher)
AM (AMs): tackle harder, mark tighter, get further forward, close down much more (A dynamic targetman)

There could be some tweaking with the offensive settings; the crosses almost never reach my 'targetman', FB's could be more offensive, the CMs could be unleashed more often... My passing instructions are quite extreme. That's to decrease possession, which is still too high for my liking.

OI: your OI

I started using this tactic, combined with your OI, since the friendly vs Leverkussen. You see, the defensive record is quite impressive, especcialy since my team was predicted to finish 13th (on 16th teams). We finished 7th, with the number 3 just 5 points clear. If I had used this tactic three games earlier, I would've reached the Champions Playoff. My goalkeeper didn't need to be a miracle man; we almost never conceded a CCC. In the game vs Genk, we conceded a penalty for a handsball, but my goalkeeper luckily saved it.

If you want to test the tactic: be my guest. I'm curious. The combination with your OI makes my team often look like Atlético; dynamic, hardworking, disciplined and very difficult to break down. We're very stubborn. I smiled when a AI manager called us 'boring'. :-)
 

4-4-2-0 Kcinnay (low block, very compact).fmf

I updated the thread and included my own striker less tactic if your still interested.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

12 hours ago, TheBigBoss said:

Anyone else finding it a bit hard to sign decent wide midfielders and deep lying forwards ?

You can buy players with the right attributes and train them for that specific role.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

@Kcinnay

 looks amazing defensively conceding 2 in 10 is amazing, were you using different TI's before the friendly with Leverkusen? Going to try implement a striker less set up as well and include it in the thread.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

@vulin 

Mentality effects how much risk the team will play with not how attacking/defensive they are and a structured team shape means defenders will defend and attackers will attack and not work as a unit.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

3 hours ago, Kcinnay said:

Your OI are impressive, @OhhScottySinclair. I've used them on my formation (a defensive 4-4-2-0) and I immediately managed to get 9 (nine!) consecutive clean sheets with a relegation favourite in the Belgian first division. Wonderful.

Interested to see your tactical set up and results, always been a fan of strikerless tactics.

[The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2]

8 hours ago, goblinshark said:

Bolton. Madine & Proctor. No transfer in first season

I would invest in 2 new forwards, you are currently playing 2 target men with minimal technical ability in the wrong role, an obvious cause for their lack of goals.