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Posts posted by Shirts
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Burnley fan here. Kompany ball has been amazing to watch this season, particularly following it's progression throughout the season as the team has 'clicked' / young players have developed.
I am very excited to see us improve the quality of the squad in the summer and take on the PL next season.
Here is an interesting tactical write up from the opening day of the season against Huddersfield:
https://olioconnell.substack.com/p/vincent-kompanys-new-look-burnley
What I will highlight is that build up play shape generally changes on a match by match basis, and even within a match, depending on what the opposition are doing.
The article I listed above was when Maatsen was being used as a flying left wing back, yet for most of the season this hasn't been the case as Zaroury came in as a typical Pep like touchline hugging winger - this led to Maatsen playing a more 'Kyle Walker like' reserved left back role, forming a back 3 in the build up phase.
Yet on other occasions, Maatsen will play as an inverted full back in midfield, Cullen can drop into a back 3 on the right during the build up and the right back inverts, forming a 3-3-4... here is a tactical analysis from our dominant win at Norwich last weekend:
https://www.pinkun.com/news/23300927.norwich-city-tactical-analysis-burnley-championship-defeat/
Then when chasing games in the second half, Kompany can often change to a 4-4-2/4-2-4 with Benson/Zaroury on the wings and generally Tella as a pressing forward (his pressing is superb), alongside a deep lying forward in Rodriguez/Barnes.
It's not always when chasing games, though, for example when we went to Old Trafford in the cup in December, it was with a 4-4-2 structure but this time with Brownhill played as a pressing forward, due to his impressive pressing abilities - we had a lot of high turnovers that evening and were unfortunate not to score.
The tempo is definitely slow and favours short over long, always happy to go back to the keeper Muric (who is outstanding with his feet), but also happy to go more direct on occasions with switches of play - I have attached an image which shows the speed of play compared to others in the Championship:
Here is another brilliant article by the Analyst which discusses if Kompany could be Pep's future replacement, with quite a bit of tactical discussion: https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/12/vincent-kompany-burnley-manchester-city-manager/
A video of a 27 pass goal scored earlier in the season where all 11 players touched the ball:
Another useful tactical explainer done by Tifo on YouTube:
I don't have this years FM but could be tempted so I can give this a go. I think the hardest part will be getting Cullen to drop into a RCB type role in the build up as I don't see how FM can do this.
Also, in previous editions when I've tried to create this style of play, there has always been issues with getting the wingers to STAY WIDE - has this been resolved? It's pretty much key to this football.
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That 4-4-2 is pretty much Sean Dyche's Burnley nailed on.
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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:
@Zemahh essentially yes, and one user in particular. There should always be good faith discussion and the forums would die without it, but I promise you that was not the case, hence me wading in with the subtlety of a dump truck
. And no apologies needed, water under the bridge.
On the approach itself, the concept is doable but I think the way here is one of the more complicated methods
The other thing that's missing in my experience which relates to your last paragraph is pressing traps. I think they are fundamentally important in my experience if you're going to do this.
I've got a straight 4-2-3-1 variant that's similar to this in concept, which I'll screen in. But it does have vulnerabilities and if you're not aware, you'll get torn apart if your defensive approach isn't up to scratch
Do you mind sharing / elaborating on your pressing traps? Something I'm not so good on so it would be really helpful.
As for the OP, I've taken some concepts, mainly the support duties /attacking combo but tried to 'Guardiolaise' it (I'm playing as City atm) - shape to 4-3-3, wingers staying wide, two mezzalas, inside full back (Cancelo). Mixed results so far, possession high but chance creation low. Away to United just now and we had 1 shot in the entire first half, for example. They went down to 10 men in the second, yet we still created nothing and they even scored for a 1-0 win!
Need to try and work out what I'm missing (possibly pressing traps will help) or if its just resultant of having a not fully fit squad / low tactic familiarity.
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If I couldn’t love this thread more, you’ve gone and chosen my team ‘little old Burnley’ - welcome!
Some awesome research done on Harry Potts and the title he won. He actually has the road next to the ground named after him, while the star player during that era for us was Jimmy McIlroy who has a stand named after him at the ‘Turf’.
McIlroy was an amazing dribbler so you’ve definitely got to try find your own Jimmy. Many fans say Potts was the best manager we’ve ever had, despite the outstanding recent achievements of Sean Dyche (vs what we are up against financially in the PL). Definitely a contrast in styles between the two!
Cool that you start with them just as tonight IRL we become only the second team in England to pass 5000 professional matches played - that is quite a history. Many look at Burnley and dismiss us as a northern, physical side these days but we’ve got a fine and interesting history - as you say, Potts’ side were an outstanding footballing team.
Will be following with keen interest, good luck!
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Cool update!
I was wondering if you kept the base tactic in play for most of the games or if you did switch to the 3-1-4-2 for the 2 striker formations?
Also, regarding your struggles against the better teams in the league that press higher, did you implement the 4-4-2 to help with the pressing?
Do you ever tinker with TI's/mentality within a match if you are struggling to break down an opponent/see your team being dominated?
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Nice OP! Look forward to seeing the different systems you look to play and why, opponent/scenerio depending.
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3 hours ago, Chris_FM said:
True! It just feels like FM are behind the curve with that element, as these players have been winning leagues and competing in the CL knockouts whilst playing ST/F9, so to have absolutely no positional rating for it seems bizarre.
In terms of the system, on FM paper it has to be 4-3-3 with a DM, but using roles to get the 2-3-5 when attacking.
Yeah - fair enough and I do agree with you there.
A slight issue I found with Foden, for me the key / most common false nine, is his 'gets forward whenever possible' PPM.
As a false nine, ideally you want comes deep to get the ball, tries through balls often and attemps one twos. That one is a bit contradictory.
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IMO all the players you mentioned can simply be retrained as False Nine's with training / match practice.
Even Zinchenko started there in the Champions League home match against PSG!
Out of interest what is the system you intend to deploy that replicates the current City?
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Nice update! The kit idea is interesting, might have to give that a go.
I will echo your comments on fatigue since the new patch - like you have found, it's also been a challenge for my Brentford side to balance Europe and Prem.
Despite padding out the squad in the summer the team still aren't at the level / isn't thick enough to manage the fixtures without missing key players.
As a result, despite having a stronger squad, we've endured an incredibly inconsistent season and I'll currently be happy with a top ten finish in the league:
I think I've been tinkering too much with tactics in an attempt to control games more which has also contributed to a poorer league season but...
We have made it to the Europa League Final after dominating the group, beating Rangers in the first knockout, Athletico Madrid 2-0 on aggregate in the quarters, then we just overturned a 1-0 first leg home defeat to Real Sociedad in the semis with an unreal 2-0 win in Spain in the return leg - the winner coming in the 93rd minute:
So this has given us a real opportunity to play in Europe again next season, as well as the obvious financial bonus the Champions League would bring.
Atalanta will be a very tough opponent though who play an attacking brand of football using a formation we have yet to face, but we should have confidence after knocking out Athletico and Real Socieded already.
Hope your Barnsley side have taken to European football as well as we did!
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Love the two signings you made. Reckon Martinelli will fire for you! How much did you end up paying?
I've had a busy summer wheeling and dealing. After the board gave us 58m to spend, I brought it another 50ish for players who had been sulking because of playing time or were upgradable.
That allowed me to take my calibre of player to the next level:
The aim was to ensure all were under the age of 25 while scouting those with more technical attributes such as first touch, passing, vision, flair etc. as we look to enhance our passing game.
My favourite signing who I'm expecting big things from is Goncalves:
Though in my first few games I haven't quite figured out how to best use him.
A thicker squad will also be required for the greater demands European football will bring.
As for the group, it's one which I'd hope we can progress through but won't be easy:
Good luck with the new season!
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What a season! Champions. Look forward to see how you spend a larger budget and attack the Champs League.
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On 07/12/2021 at 15:37, Pattric_b said:
Thank you! We have done very well for a team with such a small pay roll so the method is working.
Brentford is what Barnsley is aspiring to be right now. Their owner has been very successful using data to recruit players and essentially paved the way for other clubs. Check out “The football code” if you haven’t already. It tells you the background of Matthew Benham and how he created new statistics for analyzing players.
Right now I’m using @Rashidi training schedules as they’re the best ones I know of. He has videos explaining it.
Just wrapped up season 1 and wow, what a season it was.
Firstly, beyond the clubs and my own expectations we managed to finish 5th and qualify for the Europa League:
And this happened...
We had a relatively easy run to the final to be fair and scored with 2 of our 3 shots in the entire match at Wembley but I'm not complaining
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I haven't quite put as much emphasis and focus on data like you have (yet) but aim to work towards it this season coming.
I signed 3 players in the summer, maintaining the club philosophy of either former/current EFL players (Carvalho and Mavididi) and young Norweigans
(Christensen). :
Christensen just picked up the player of the year award after impressing in the deep lying playmaker role infront of the back 4.
Carvalho hasn't been able to get going yet but he's still young. While Mavididi got 12 goals and 9 assists, mainly as an inside forward on the left.
Board have given a budget of near £60m for the new season but I've already done some good business signing this guy on a free:
While our playing styles are similar (high pressing) I have tried to employ a more possession based, narrow tactic. We ended up with an average of 53% over the year, 5th in the league, this is an area I'd like to improve on in the new season and get it up towards 60.
Thanks for the thread, definitely inspired me - keep up the posts
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Another great update! What a season so far.
Would enjoy seeing this system take on the Champions League, as well as the extra layer of finances you will receive that will undoubtedly help with recruitment.
I have just started a new save with Brentford who share 'some' similarities with the way you are recruiting here and style of play.
What is your approach to training?
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Great posting! Cool to see a newly promoted side use a 4-2-4 and not get hammered. Solid first season that. Did you have to make changes away to the 'big' clubs?
Also, a lot of talk on these forums has been regarding a pressing bug / opposition defences with abnormally high pass completion... was this something you noticed, seen as though your emphasis is on pressing? Or did the team shape help with this regardless?
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25 minutes ago, 04texag said:
I apologize for getting overly upset about this. I think it's some hang on from last year, but not you specifically. I did a Barca replication, from one very specific look, and very few people on these forums will actually load up what you're saying and try it before offering tons of advice about trying it differently.
I remember your name from before and you've been a great addition in the past, so I apologize for taking things personally. I think I was frustrated yesterday as I was really close to posting that this tactic is probably one of my absolute favorite recreations, playing brilliantly in both FM21 and FM22, and no one will even give it a shot. That's not on you but me.
I'm giving it a shot!
Also playing as City to start with.
First match of the season, really impressed with the play and control it gave (away at United)!
As you have said, some very familiar patterns of play to IRL.
Bear in mind most players only just returned to training so there has been zero chance to get them familiar with the tactic.
For some of them, like Grealish, it was his first game back.
Please keep up the posting, loving the updates.
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Absolutely love the simplicity of this - it's actually inspired me to buy the game.
With previous versions I think I have over complicated tactics so to see something make sense that is so simple really helps.
Looks like it really brought Kai Havertz to life!
Now to find a team to play around with it...
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Hi herne - really great thread. I am currently Napoli playing this same formation albeit slightly differently. Obviously playing in Italy the most common formation I face is 3 at the back with wing backs - pretty much a back 5.
I often struggle the most to break these teams down.
I'd love to hear your thoughts (or anyone else with insights) on how you would 'adapt' to this formation. Sometimes the opposition even line up with 2 defensive midfielders in front of the back 3 which denies the striker of ANY space.
My standard roles are:
SK
FB - S
BPD - D
BPD - D
WB - A
DLP - D
BBM - S
CM - A
W - S
IF - A
CF - A
Any tips would be appreciated!
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Started a new game following the winter update with Napoli - life without Hamsik.
Absolute legend of the club - most goals and most appearances means replacing him isn't easy.
I signed Rafinha for quite cheap in the summer before Lozano, Balanta and Tonali joined in January.
So far so good, though, as I sit top of Serie A with 11 games to go (leading Inter by 1 point).
Won my Champions League group ahead of PSG and beat Hoffenheim in the knock out - despite a 2-1 defeat in Germany.
Have drawn the Bundesliga leaders, Bayern, in the Quarters.
Playing a 4-5-1/4-3-3 with Milik or Mertens leading the line - both have been in great form, particularly Milik of late.
Also in the final of the Italian Cup after a 5-2 aggregate win over Inter in the semis.
Most memorable/satisfying performance of the season - so far:
Onto the rest of the season!
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Re-creating Kompanyball IRL
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by Shirts
Yes, arguably the performance of the season. Muric made a new keeper role for FM I think with the positions he took up! Not sure I’ve seen a keepers average position outside the actual box.
Typical 4-1-2-2-1 as FM would label it yesterday. Deep lying striker, left winger Zaroury allow to cut inside from very wide, Tella more an inside forward, Cullen deep lying playmaker and the two 8s… not sure. Both full backs can invert in the build up but play wide when we are playing in their half.