MWoolf

Why is it important to people that real teams win real silverware? Adults rage when their real-life favorite team chokes at the end of the season, too. Why? Sports and games arouse different levels of passion in different people. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with the people who are more passionate about games. You have a very strong idea of how you would like FM to be, and that is great! But you are very dismissive of--and borderline insulting to--people who want a different game experience than you want. And that is not so good.

I completely agree that a game without challenge is boring, and people stop playing. And I think your summation of the "player's journey" of FM is right on the money. What you are describing is still not a faithful simulation of reality though. It's a game with exploitability, but where the ways to exploit adapt over time to keep the player engaged and learning. Having a robust debate over how to keep the game interesting for seasoned players makes sense to me. Demanding that the game faithfully simulate reality instead of being a game, with game-like mechanics and exploitabilities, does not make sense to me. (I realize this is not what you are arguing, but some definitely have).

If you want to see average teams with average budgets and average managers have mid-table or worse finishes every year, you can just turn on the TV or read the paper. No need to spend money on a video game. Every adult is used to not winning most of the time. It's called *real life*, and we get plenty of it day in and day out. The average gamer plays games to escape the disappointing outcomes in reality, not to have those outcomes happen again and again, but this time feel responsible because they were in charge.

I agree 100%. And to follow the thought: This is ultimately a game first and a simulation second, and Zealand's video shows up the fracture between those two goals for SI. I don't think that is a bug or a sign that the game is "broken." Making a game that allows average-skill players to win the Prem means making a game that is exploitable. It has to be that way. So....I would file this under: "Be careful what you wish for." If SI "fixes" the game so that City and Arsenal reliably crush teams like this, it's not going to be much fun for the average player to play FM. Goodbye "Park to Prem" and "Road to Glory."

I can stretch it back to 01/02, but not further: 21/22: Tring Athletic 3-0 Flackwell Heath 20/21: Not competed 19/20: Abandoned at semifinal 18/19: Biggleswade FC 2 - 0 Baldock Town 17/18: Welwyn Garden City 1 - 3 Harpenden Town 16/17: Hoddesdon Town 1 - 0 Wembley 15/16: Welwyn Garden City 0 - 1 Hoddesdon Town 14/15: Berkhamsted 1 - 1 Colney Heath (5-3 penalties) 13/14: Berkhamsted 2 - 2 Ampthill Town (4-5 penalties) 12/13: Aylesbury United 3 - 2 Hadley 11/12: St Margaretsbury 0 - 2 Royston Town 10/11: Colney Heath 2 - 0 Leverstock Green 09/10: Hanwell Town 1 - 2 Aylesbury 08/09: St Margaretsbury 0 - 2 Tring Athletic 07/08: Oxhey Jets 1 - 2 Edgware Town 06/07: Oxhey Jets 0 - 1 Edgware Town 05/06: Oxford City 1 - 0 Leverstock Green 04/05: Harefield United 1 - 2 Potters Bar Town 03/04: Harefield United 1 - 0 Brook House 02/03: Hanwell Town 2 - 0 Harefield United 01/02: Potters Bar Town 0 - 2 St Margaretsbury ETA: best source for early detailed data is here: football.mitoo, but they only go back to 01/02 on cup results.

Presuming you want the CCL's "PREMIER CHALLENGE CUP", here are the extracted data from the website for each of the final matches: Website: Combined Counties League Archive (ccleague.co.uk) Final match result: 21/22: Southall 1-2 Walton & Hersham 20/21: Ascot United 0-0 Redhill (Redhill won 4-2 on pens) 19/20: Does not look like it was completed. The season was abandoned on 26 March 2020. 18/19: CB Hounslow 0-1 Sutton Common Rovers 17/18: Knaphill 3-2 Worcester Park 16/17: Epsom & Ewell 1-4 Westfield 15/16: Camberley Town 1-3 Farnham Town 14/15: Camberley Town 2-1 Colliers Wood Utd 13/14: Hanworth Villa 1-0 Spelthorne Sports 12/13: South Park 0-3 Epsom & Ewell 11/12: Colliers Wood United 0-2 Guernsey 10/11: Sandhurst Town 1-0 Wembley 09/10: Bedfont 0-2 Cove 08/09: Camberley Town 3-0 Worcester Park 07/08: Bedfont Green 2-4 Merstham 06/07: Merstham 4-1 North Greenford United 05/06: Godalming Town 4-0 Merstham 04/05: Merstham 3-0 AFC Guildford 03/04: Nth Greenford Utd 1-4 AFC Wimbledon 02/03: Ash United 0-1 Withdean 2000 01/02: Bedfont 2-3 Cobham

@Michael Sant The file is "Martin Woolf - Romero Unhappy 27 Sept.fm" It's a scosh more than a month earlier than the last, but he's already unhappy. If you need further back, I believe I can find an earlier save.

I'm pretty sure I do. I'll check, and upload it when I get home. I can also try to find a save from around the time when Romero first gets unhappy with his playing time if that would help.

@Neil Brock Neal, Last month, in the bug tracker forum, you said: "On this front, the way our in-game stats are recorded aren't always in line with how real life are recorded, which yes admittedly isn't ideal. But does mean that direct comparisons between the game and RL in some areas isn't really viable." Given this, how are we supposed to interpret the in-game stats? I have found no descrptions or explanations of them in the online manuals, and most are very tersely tool-tipped or not tool-tipped at all in-game. It feels as if SI expects us to interpret them like the real-life stats they are named for. But if they aren't recorded the same way and they aren't directly comparable, then they don't really mean the same thing. Would it be possible to explain what the stats actually mean/how they are recorded, so we players know how to interpret them? Thanks, Martin

I have another instance of broken playing time expectations, in case you need another case to look at. I have a player who was promised regular starter, is getting regular starter, and is complaining. It would be super helpful if either this gets fixed, or if I could have an interaction option that says "You're already getting regular first team playing time. What are you whining about?" File uploaded to the cloud with the name "Martin Woolf - Tottenham Romero Unhappy.fm"