Tyrinko
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Posts posted by Tyrinko
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After a few games and trying I change tactics to something like this. Fullbacks instead of wingback because I invite pressure on me to open space upfront so more passing options deep is needed. Fullback on left has PI " Get further forward" so this makes him useful in opposition half, CML is Carrilero to be something between "BtB" midfielder and cover midfielder when fullback is advanced.
On the right is mezzala to be further forward so my FB is less attacking. Question is front three. From my AM I want to be my third attacker - runner from deeper position but also be creative (Similary to Firmino IRL). Front two I want from them to be runner (for me PF on support is exactly this) and another one who can run, create space and most important scores a lot of goals - I don´t like Advanced forward because he is too high. I was trying also F9 because of his movement but is wasn´t great. Has someone any ideas to create goalscoring monster and second striker from my front two with remain to possesion based style???
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Quick question. Is it possible to use False 9 in attacking trio to create space for Complete forward on support to exploit it, and a Attacking midfielder on attack/support as a runner?? Idea is create fluid attacking trio who Can interchange position and all of them could be provider/scorer.
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7 hours ago, Contexx said:
I use virtually the same roles with Parma in the first season, so the squad is not good by any stretch of the imagination, particularly in defense. I started using it because I had a number of decent central midfielders and it's a formation I've always enjoyed.
One of the advantages of this tactic is the "space" you get if you lump it under pressure, particularly in this match engine. I'm not saying play hoofball, but don't get caught up on the possession stats. I usually play a shorter passing game and my dlp or mezzala is still able to lump it to the rabid PF for a one of one (and he doesn't miss from time to time).
High tempo/short passing/play out of defense? Yup, unless you've got regens of Beckenbauer and Maldini with Nesta waiting in the wings, you're lumping it long for all the wrong reasons. To play that kind of game, stringing gorgeous short passes together you need even more gorgeous weather conditions and players with excellent technique.
Personally, I play somewhat wider, keeping my passing length at mixed, and allow myself as much of the pitch as possible, especially as I don't trust my players to get out of tight spaces.
I imagine your AMC is particularly frustrating to watch. The idea of him spraying passes or running on to flick ons from your DLF just doesn't pan out, does it? I set mine to roam and as a AP, so that he can have a more dynamic interplay with the mezzala. Also, I found that putting the striker as a Complete Forward as opposed to DLF helps create space and reduce congestion in that middle area.
The line of engagement thing is another thing you may want to take a look at. Do you really want your front three in the center of midfield praying for your poor fullbacks to somehow release them? Personally, especially against teams that like to build from the back, I like to up the line of engagement to "higher". This gets the front three actually defending from the front and posing more of a threat. Even if they're bypassed, if by chance you actually win the ball deeper, you'll have three players in the center to keep the opposition honest. On support duty, your AMC will still track back, and if you give him more closing down, he'll help out a lot.
"Play out of defense" works - until it doesn't. If the defenders don't have any safer options, they'll play it long, especially as you have a deep lying playmaker on defend there. He'll try to make himself available, and if he's marked, then the only other option is to lump it to the pressing forward and hope for the best. I countered that by having my Advanced playmaker on "roam from position" so that there is another option high up the pitch. Another option would be putting your DLP on Support so that he has the option of riskier passes - otherwise he just chooses the safest, shortest, and easiest option of recycling possession (more often than not back to your centerbacks.
Playing against teams that clog the midfield and have outlets on the wings, this is a very dangerous system to play if you want to keep possession and have a slow build up. Even the mezzala's real estate is limited, and if he loses the ball, it's very dangerous. My own midfield three are CM DLP(D) and B2B / Mezz, depending on the system I'm up against. Up front I have a complete forward, who is still eager to drop deep, but more often than not finds pockets of space in the more advanced wide areas.
As for short vertical passes, I would guess having a combo of DLP (D) and AP, along with slighly more static outer midfielders might work - but only if your players have very strong technique and mental stats, since you'd basically be playing through the opposition's midfield.
Anyway I hope that helps. I personally enjoy the 4312, as it's very flexible and can produce some beautiful football when it works - and utter shambles when it doesn't.
Firstly thanks for your opinion and ideas. I try watching full games and analyse/twerk what´s went wrong and what could be done better. After this my tactics looks -
Lots of support duties and fluid team - so players are closer together . Sometimes I change LCB to BPD when needed. Fullback on the left is on attack to run from deep to attract some interest from opposition and create space for LCM (take fewer risk, tackle harder and hold position PI - wanted him as a controller in the middle and cover for my left side). Fullback has got PI "take fewer risk" because when he is on attack he attemp a lot of dribbles and lost a lot of balls. DLFs upfront on the left is role that I am not really sure about is - I wanted someone to act as a second striker.
On the right side is Full back on support with PI "Get further forward" and RCM is Btb - these two could combine together and with F9 upfront they could interchagne positions between them and still be solid in defence.
In middle is DLP on defence - I want here player which will act as a "metronome" - get passes from CBs to bait opponent to come high to the pitch and try to press our build up. This is the role I am thinking about to change it to CM on defense to have central pivot - DLP still moves to the sides. AM on support has PI of "Close down more", "Tackle harder", "Move in to the channels" "Dribble more". This PI are because I want him to be in halfspaces and force opposition to press him - possible of creating holes.
I changed Wingbacks to Fullback because WB goes up too early when I am trying to force opposition to high press I don´t have wide players - so opposition has easier job to press us. Fullbacks goes up later and are useful to create overload in ou buildup.
As a TI I use "Much shorter passing" (sometimes change to "short" when opposition is pressing us high, to hit them on a counter), "Higher tempo" to pass faster, "Work ball into box" to keep ball and don´t rush decision in opponent half, "Focus play through the middle" because I´ve got overload middle and want movement exactly from there, "Wide width" because my formation is narrow by itself and want to create some space in the middle for my players.
Counterpress is using because when I lost ball, I´ve got a lot of players around and opposition needs to act quickly to pass it to the wings where is harder to reach ball for me - this will be my next step, to create pressing paterns to force opponents play through the middle, where I´ve got numerical advantage.
I don´t play on counter´s because my game is so often rushed and my aim is to attack in speed with short passes - something like a Napoli in real life under Napoli.
Using Higher defensive line with more urgent pressing is to help press opposition and force them to mistakes. Ofside trap is there to help our defensive play so when opponent try to play long ball on 90% it is offside or my Sweeper keeper takes a free ball - yes sometimes it is clear goalscoring opportuninty but there is small risk/high reward situation for me.0 -
10 hours ago, yellowforever said:
Maybe get the CBs to take fewer risks? Occassionally your CBs (especially if they aren't great and you're getting pressed high) will just lump it.
As said earlier I don't like regroup - with possession based formations and teams that tend to attack through the middle, counter-pressing is very effective. For example if your AM loses the ball you will have a lot of players in that area to win it back.
I don't like the AM (S) there. You have a DLF (S) ahead and 3 midfielders behind him so I'd like an attack role there. I'd try either a Treq or SS there as they are extremely aggressive either with the ball and it's roaming or with the SS's runs into the box.
Good luck, it's a good formation in my opinion.
I try even "take fewer risks" but it didn´t help. AM (s) is there because I want to have someone who will connect midfield and attack and the game won´t be rushed through him like AP does. Try SS but this created hole because he attack too early, and don´t like Treq because I´ve got my front three with press more and tackle harder.
8 hours ago, radenje said:what exactly does 'take fewer/more risks' mean? take fewer risks aka clear the ball away and lose possession or don't waste the ball, keep it and make short passes even when closed down by opponent? More risks mean make the risky pass to the closest teammate when closed down or what? I have trouble with understanding this team instruction. So If I want my team to build up from the back ALWAYS, make the way out of enemy's pressing by short fast passes and one twos, should I pick take more risks (because it's risky to play short passes with eachother at the back when closed down by opponent) or should I take fewer risks (because it means to play safe and not waste ball - but then, take fewer risks seems like clearing the ball away when closed down) so how does it actually work in different scenarios??
Yes there is a problem with understanding this things. For me the "risky pas" is try to pass through the lines - BPD has that and is doing exactly this. The chance about pass being intercepted is high- so that is why it is risky.
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5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
What exactly do you mean by "your version" of VTT? And based on what do you think that such a style of play suits your team?
Btw, instructions such as low LOE and regroup does not really go hand in hand with any type/version of tiki-taka or possession-oriented styles of football in general.
I called it "my version" because it isn´t try to replicated someone tactics (aka Sarriball). I want to play this formation and when I watchin styles I found that vertical tiki-taka is most interesting to me now. So I try to buy some players which could be good for this style (in my judgment), and I am also in love for bargain buys :-).
I try to low LOE because I want to by compact in the middle so teams so often try long against me and Raya is pretty good in sweeping this balls (not everyone but a lot is succesfull). Regroup because when I counterpress with players season before I was too open everywhere - so try regroup and my front three has got more urgent pressing and tackle harder. But you´re right this could be one of the aspect which I could do better to help my tactics.0 -
Hello everyone. I am trying to implement my version of Vertical tiki-taka in 4-3-1-2 formation with Bolton Wanderers. Here is my tactics
I don´t like my overall gameplay :
1- my game is too rushed (so often my CBs play long passes instead of playing short)
2- instead of playing short my players play long and lost a ball - maybe need more runners???
3 - attacking trio is nowhere near good - maybe need better support for them?? (pass in to the space I think isn´t great for possesion game because players will go long instead short fast passing)
4 - how to setup fast, short vertical passes???? I found Rashidi´s old video about passing where I found that "shorter + faster tempo+ lower mentality is low risk vertical passing.
5- Roles combination.
Is there someone who can help me???0 -
On 15/03/2019 at 16:11, Experienced Defender said:
@Rashidi will no doubt give you a better answer and explanation than me, but my guess is that you could do a better job overload-wise with an AP on support instead of IF on the left, DLF on support (instead attack) and perhaps even a DLP in the MCR instead of BBM. All this provided of course that your players are good enough to keep the ball under pressure. Because AP and MEZ can draw oppositon to the left, DLFsup would be also there to help, and then you have a DLP behind as a relatively safe passing option for possession-recycling, which combined should give the attacking IF on the right enough time and space to run into and hopefully exploit.
Btw, not sure if the "pass into space" TI is necessary here.
On 15/03/2019 at 17:53, Rashidi said:You lack a punch in central midfield and you are increasing the burden for the DLF(A), he works very well within my system but he also has comes deep to get the ball. Your issue I bet is congestion, when you get to the final third there is no space. you create the space with movement, that will come with a Mezz on attack duty, because he could drive forward and work with the IF(S).
To overload the left you may even need to consider an overlap, not sure how good your fullbacks are, here I am using the overlap specifically for the higher positioning, its a risk but that's why my Firefox 4123 features an anchorman. The mezzala ideally needs switch ball to other flank, this gives you two routes to goal, if the WB can get up. The BBM is a strange choice, unless he is absolutely great at defending and going up, your other options are a DLP who will help you switch play, a CM(S) who with the get into opposition area, can be another source of trouble for the defence.
When you use a BBM you expose the WB on the right during a transition.
The goal should be for your side to either fling a ball to the right for the IF(A) to score or the WB down the right flank gets up in close support. To ensure you get that kind of support you need to think about Player instructions for the FB (sit narrower). This makes him pass inside rather than go on a blinding run. Finally while you are using Pass Into Space, it is possible to save it till you really need it. Here another option is the early cross. The WB on the left can be given that PI or you can use it as a TI which is good since you are already playing on a standard LOE/DL configuration. Speaking of which, that too is unnecessary. You could be far too deep and your players may not get up in support well enough, all this is causing your team to allow congestion to happen. So you could push the DL up to higher. I assume you have fast defenders.
The reason why is cause I don't think you are generating nearly as many touches in the opposition area as I think are possible with this system. Personally I use a DLF(A) in my system because I do want him to get forward as well, but with a comes deep to get the ball, I get the best of both worlds. He drops deep helps the buildup, maybe release the ball early to the IF(A) because we have hit early crosses and because he has risky passes on, or he arrives late and finishes off a move. The Attack duty also means that when you camp, he is in and around the box, while your IFs drag a team around.
Another option for extracting more space is with a Mezz/W combo, this works to deliver crosses, so if you want more cutbacks and crosses instead of crosses to heads, then consider playing narrow width. Against defensive teams you may even need to consider overlap right as well. Using the overlap instruction as a creative way to defend with a high press takes some practice but the payback is huge. Its my favourite way of playing cos it closely mimics what LFC do in real life. I do play with custom blocks as well, but you will need to master the basics about movement before you go making huge changes like that. So for now I recommend doing some basic role/duty changes with the addition of one TI.
Thank you both for your opinions. I was going to use Rashidi´s opinions and change system to this
My LB has PI to hit early crosses and RB to sit narrower. Front three have got PI to press more (left IF has got Get further forward too) - This is because I want to press defenders with my front three to force them kick the ball long, where my midfielders/defenders can win the ball back. I don´t create so many chances (about 2 half chances per game) and our games is about 1-2 goals. I am going to try analyse my faults or if it is because of wrong players for this system. BTW @Rashidi is somwhere your Phoenix system in video/text analyse? When I am looking on Youtube you often has got something like 4-3-1-2 - most similar was Red Pharaoh system with LFC for FM18. Thanks both for your help with tactics to completly lost gamer.0 -
After watching episodes about MIC (about 10 times) I am not sure if I am doing the overloading left side correctly, and I don´t know if the DLFa role is ideal to my tactics ( I am totally lost in players roles after reading so much articles) The idea for my game is overload the left side of the pitch with WBs, MEZs and IFs and with DLF on attack duty to create space for my right sided IFa to by main goalscorer. The question is - Is better to use Forward role with MIC instruction + is the BTB midfielder enough support from deep to my IFa? (I was trying to have CMa but it looks like they go to each other way).
Can someone help me with explanation of tactics or tactical tweaks????0 -
15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
I think no. Not sure though, as I haven't used a RMD in FM19 so far, but as far as I remember, he has hard-coded PIs of "Move into channels" and "Roam from position".
You are right. In FM19 the Raumdeuter doesn't have "stay narrow". I will try to setup my tactics to create scoring machine from my Raumdeuter.
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On 23/01/2019 at 23:06, herne79 said:
That's a Raumdeuter
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Thanks for All replies.. But doesn't have Raumdeuter PI "stay narrow"?? I will go a try a watch what happened
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Quick question - Can be Winger on attack your primary goalscorer?? Idea is that he stretch defence for himself and create gap between CB and FB, where he can run/pass can go for him.
Example of front three - IFs - DLFa - Wa0 -
On 5. 3. 2018 at 15:29, luka_ said:
it was the wrong formation, now i have written roles and duties.
formation is 4-4-2 with one cm in dm position.
In my opinion your problem is structured lineup -your players are far away each to other which gives opposition more space to exploit. Try change it to very fluid, it can help a lot
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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
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If I am ussing narrow formation (4-3-1-2) is it useful to play wider to create space in the middle??? I am playing vertical tiki-taka now. Because when I used narrower TI with narrow setup I´ve got problem to break teams down and create CCC.