Strikerir
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Posts posted by Strikerir
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11 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:
Well...zonal marking is the default marking in this game. I think the Tighter Marking TI might do for this scheme
Thaks for your input it defenetly adds that but it's not tight enough and the players still shift too much maybe if I add that ti and pi to all player might do the trick I don't know I'll wait for more awsers
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42 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:
Manorientated Zonal Marking? Never heard of such a thing.
Are you talking about a man marking scheme that Gasperini plays?
As I know off its used currently by mourinho he used at every team he has managed I will link you Two videos that explain it if you are intrigued. One explains it briefly the general term and one its the mourinho scheme
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Is it possible in fm to use Man oriented Zonal Marking if so how can you do it. I would really like to use that it's my preferred way of defending but I don't know how to. Help you'll be massively appreciated
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27 minutes ago, Coleman said:
Is this topic still live? I am at the beginning of a Villa save and want to try to emulate the Mourinho method to stay up and build the team into a contender. I would love to read more!
Unfortunately it's dead 😭
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14 minutes ago, knap said:
Go for the High Tempo tactic.
Where can I find it?
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1 minute ago, knap said:
They all counter attack but none are specific counter attacking.
I posted a tactic shown as 2HIGH2 which very high tempo. Also the ROUTE 66 tactic is very direct passing.
Thanks for the reply but I'm looking for that counter attacking galore like getting from A to B fast on the ME I don't really care about the instructions it can be short passing or whatever I just want the desired effect off counter galore and I will put my own spin on things anyways but I want a solid base I can work on
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Knap from the tactics you make that are awesome I would like to know what is the best counter attacking tactic,I don't care if it wins all games or not I want a stable tactic that just kills in transitions do you recommend any?
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40 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:
I dont really understand why, as the better team which you would be in the majority of your games, would you want to negate your own advantages of having the more gifted technical players and play in a way where essentially youre letting the opposition have the ball and hoping they do nothing with it, whilst hoping you can create enough chances to win with less possession than you would have had by controlling the game.
Its a bit like, youre finding the game too easy and you want to handicap yourself by winning in spite of unsuitable tactics.
As i said he can play defensive but he as to start on the front foot. There's a lot of sucessfull big teams that play defensive but they start on the front foot and then retreat.
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Myself have tryied to implement counter attacking tactics on big teams and im not good at tactics but i can give u an advise that ive learned wich is try to play somewhat attacking until you score that first goal and then u can go defensive to not concede it will create that pragmatic effect and will garante that you are a defensive side who wins trophy even jose didnt play defensive for 90 min he would start the game to win it then to not bottle it unless its a bigger side where you have to adapt that "big game strategy"
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Bernkastel when are u writing again im curious about you adventure i cant wait xd
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3 hours ago, Bernkastel said:
Mourinho's teams weren't simply counter attacking machines. When in possession they quickly sent the ball towards the final third and moved in order to open space tp then pass the ball to a player running into that space.
Strikerir does mention he is trying to replicate the Real Madrid team but the inside forward has usually always been a second striker in Mourinho's teams. In Madrid the strange combination of Ronaldo's natural gifts as a striker and Benzema's nº10 like talents inverted the order when it came to who scored goals.
on the subject of Viktor Fischer I took a look at his attributes and his physical attributes are indeed not good enough especially his lack of Pace and Balance.
Yes i know the inside foward is a second striker thats why im using a raumdeuter wich in portuguese is translated "Ponta de lança aberto" translating back to english word by word means "Wide Striker" so i think the raumdeuter does it or im just being fooled by the translation to my language :o
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Im actually tirelessly working to make the tactic the way i want it to be and im itching closer to the disired effect, im currently testing with newcastle and i got atsu(the raumdeuter) scoring some goals i will post the updated tactic once im done testing
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48 minutes ago, trgtoztrk said:
Thank u for ur sharing. I have some questions about ur tactic:
1- First of all ur tactic seems pretty good however I wonder about if I revert it to the left, does it still work? Because as we all know, Ronaldo played in left wing etc.
2- How do u make ur Ronaldo track back which specific position do u make him mark(lb/rb, ml/mr, aml/amr)?
Yes if you move to the other flank it still might work i just made it on the right because it suited my players.
i make him mark either mr/ml or aml/amr depends on what the opposition plays.
the tactic is far from perfect still needs improvements im working on it
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So this is the tactic.
I went for a 4231 instead of a 4411 because i didnt like using them as Midfielders they were too defensive and i wasnt getting the best out of counter attacks.
To make the raumdeuter track back i use oposition marking. atention dont make this for both wingers.
i didnt use stopper/cover combo because i didnt really feel the need for it.
both fullbacks on support? but isnt supposed to have one more adventurous? good question and the awser is simple its yes my right fullback has get further foward has ppm and some pi's that make him more adventurous. If your fullback doesnt have get further foward maybe try him on attack.
midfield: i went with a carrilero and a dlp (d), this is my interpertation of xabi alonso and khedira in his real madrid team alonso was supposed to cover ronaldo(the raumdeuter) and he rarely ventured fowards. Khedira was a cover for di maria but he was more adventurous than alonso soo the carrilero choice
Wingers: Raumdeuter and winger nothing to explain really ronaldo and di maria pretty much
AP: i decided to go with ap on attack because i want him to be a ball magnet and start counter attacks and get deep to receive the ball and stay foward when we defend to create that 4411/442 in defense. Most importante player in this system.
Foward: Pressing foward i want him to press the opposition defense to force them to get foward so that i can get counter attacks and i think thats benzema's role at the time.
PI's
Sk (D)- No PI's
CD and BPD- Pass shorter
RFb- take fewer risks, cross more often,cross from byline,cross aim far post,shoot less often, close down more
LFb- take fewer risks, cross more often, cross from deep,cross aim far post,shoot less often,close down more
dlp- close down more
carrilero-close down more, take fewer risks
W (s) -close down more
Ap (A) - get further foward, move into channels
RMD- drible more, close down more, mark specific player
PF (A) - no pi's
i made the central mids and wingers and fullbacks press more because im trying to double up on the wings and win the ball there.
I thinks thats all i dont remember anything more to say and sorry for my writing being all over the place i rarely write stuff.
Edit: i change mentality and defensive line dependent on opponent
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45 minutes ago, trgtoztrk said:
Can u share ur own Mourinho emulation tactic please?
Yes and as a bonus i can give my thougt process in the making of the tactic
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7 hours ago, Bernkastel said:
I have a confession to make. I am not used to playing direct football. I tend to favor a high line and a more possession hungry strategy. Because of this I have been tinkering a lot with my tactics during pre season and even now I am not 100% convinced with my tactic.
The first thing I noticed is that while my wingers did backtrack they gave away a lot of fouls in dangerous areas so I moved them to the mid strata and adopted a 4411 in defence. Because they are both in attack duty I still get the 4231 shape in attack but they don't commit as many fouls while in defence. The starting eleven is only provisional and will vary match by match.
I have chosen the cautious mentality because it offers some further solidity when compared with balanced mentality.
More direct passing is an instruction based on Mourinho's belief that the team that has the ball has fear. It is meant to make my team efficient on the ball. Pass into space is an instruction that makes my team more direct and works well with my three attacking roles (why would you pass into space if no one is going to move into that space?), Hit early crosses seemed to me as a bit of an overkill but I have mostly faced stronger teams this pre season and it is a good instruction against teams that play a high line, Because my players aren't genius footballers with mental attributes off the roof I have told them to be more disciplined something that also aims to imitate Mourinho and lastly I have increased the tempo because Mourinho's teams are known for their quick movements on the ball.
Distribute quickly + counter + regroup is the combination that best results in quick counter attacking football and Unai Simon while not the best distributor has enough ability to pull off a long kick or a good throw to my more advanced players.
The Lower line of engagement is meant to make our defence tighter and invite the opposition to concede space behind them and the combination of mark tighter + get stuck was devised to get the ball back quickly without breaking our defensive shape.
This will most likely crash and burn against a parked bus but is working well enough against both better and similar teams.
I will most likely update this by the end of the season.
I Have a couple of suggestions.
1. Try changing de cm (d) to a carrilero, why? because a support duty tends to be tighter to the opponents midfield and thats exactly what you want
2. Change the AM to attack ussualy mourinho's Ams stay foward and are the main instigators for the counter attack him or normally a strong striker if he has one, one of them holds the ball to wait for the on rushing wingers and make that final pass.
3. Mentality cautious meh, yes it does provide defensive solidity but its really bad for a counter attacking stratagy (at least thats what i believe) so my suggestion is yes defend deeper or in mid block but increase that mentality because mourinho's team are really risky on the ball they dont give a crap if they lose it because defence its the best weapon.
This comes from a fellow portuguese who was obsessed with emulating jose mourinho at all costs and id say ive been decently sucessfull.
Edit: if you worry that the midfield duo on support leaves a hole in between mid and def try using one defender stopper and one cover its a portuguese thing we just like the stopper cover combination
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5 hours ago, Bernkastel said:
To celebrate my friend and I managed to leave the hell of driving through Genoa behind I would like to talk about the 4231, which I intend to use as my main formation during this save.
As far as English football is concerned the 4231 was born with Eric Cantona in the 90s. The DLF kept getting deeper and deeper until he could no longer be considered a Forward and thus the n°10 is born. The south American continent emploid the formation much sooner where it evolved from the Brazilian box in search for wider attacking options.
It is perhaps the most flexible formation known today and can be tinkered with to serve both an aggressive and a defensive side.
Like the two formations it was born from it achieves to reduce space in the center through the defensive square of two defenders and two holding midfielders. Packing the center of the final third means that opposition attacks are funneled to the wings where the only two avenues of attack are the skillful dribbling of an inside forward or crosses.
The formation can be then divided into a defensive unit of 6 outfield players + keeper and an offensive unit of 4 players + midfielders (who form part of both units)
This sets up two possibilities. The first is to play a high defensive line and use your advanced defensive unit to choke the opposition and lay siege to the opponents half. The second (the one most explored in this project) is to close gaps, concede space and use the attacking unit to hit them on the counter.
Because it is a lone striker formation and because of the way I am setting it up my other players have the job of providing the ball to my forward and because of the two holding midfielders one of my wings needs to be quite aggressive which has some implications for the other roles.
Gk
Wba - CD - CD - Wbd
Car Bbm
Ifa. Ams. Ws
Pfa
This is a possible role set up of his time at Inter.
Who is the playmaker? The carrilero of course. Anyone who has seen them play knows that Cambiasso was the playmaker.
Why doesn't Cambiasso have a Playmaker role? He doesn't need a playmaker role to be a playmaker. Toni Kroos is a playmaker because he has 20 passing, 18 vision, 17 anticipation, 18 decisions and 18 teamwork along with the traits dictates tempo and likes to switch ball to the other flank. Giving him a Dlps role doesn't make him a better playmaker, it just makes him a ball magnet with the minuses and pluses that entails.
Isn't the right flank too risky? Not with Cambiasso drifting wide to close the gap. If you want a very attacking combination in a flank you absolutely need the midfielder in that flank to be more conservative. The carrilero has the additional instructions to move wide which makes him an ideal cover.
You are going to need some individual instructions to make this tactic play like Mourinho's Inter but the two points I wanted to make have been made.
A playmaker doesn't need a playmaker role and a very attacking flank requires a conservative midfielder.
If only I could use that formation. Alas, I lack the players. The modern game has no Cambiasso, try to think of a single midfielder with his defensive capabilities and passing range.
So what tactic will I be using? That will have to wait, despite my feat of remembering the attributes and traits of Kroos he is my go to n°1 playmaker who I always bring back to Bayern. Of course I am going to remember my beloved.
I have no idea what attributes SI has given to the players at Athletic and can only make an educated guess from seeing them play IRL.
And like I said, before we go into tactics I need to talk about the club structure and the backroom staff.
I set up just like you but im making more of a RM replication than Inter. I have a question regarding the IF (A) how do you make him track back because as im rememberimg etoo did not neglet his defensive duties
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4 hours ago, Bernkastel said:
Very good question. I am going to guess you know that mid slots are more defensive than attacking mid slots and that your formation of choice is roughly your defensive shape. That being said you can't expect a lazy winger to track back even when placing him in the mid slot.
The main attribute that decides that is workrate and it turns out to be most important for wide players. I believe teamwork also plays a part to a lesser extent.
A second thing to consider is that by sitting deeper in defense the player will take longer to reach the final third.
I don't usually utilize a low block when out of possession so I can't say for sure but I dont recall ever having problems with the attacking midfield strata when defending apart from one time I used a very technical but lazy AP with CSKA Moscow.
To answer your question I think I will first try the Attacking midfield slots with specific position Marking and will drop them to the mid strata when I fill the situation calls for it.
The great thing about formations is that by choosing tie correct roles you can get a 4231 shape out of a 4411, a 451 a 433 wide and even a 442 (some are trickier than others but it can be done)
A piece of good news, I miscounted the days in my previous post and will be returning home the day after tomorrow so I can start a day earlier than I thought.
The first thing I will talk about is the proper structure of a club focused on Youth development and the backroom staff.
Thats good news im really interested how you are going to set up. Im comfused by specific marking do you mean that they going to be in the attacking mid as attack and ask them to mark specific players like oposing winger or fullbacks, because in support i cant see them rushing foward on counter attacks. Ive seen mourinho in many games asking is wingers to mark the oposing wingers to free his fullbacks so they defend in the box and ready for the oposing fullbacks crossing .
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5 hours ago, Bernkastel said:
This is pretty much all I can do without my PC so unless I think of something important that needs to be said I won't be posting again until the 31st of July.
oh really :c i just have a question are you going to use the wingers in the mid slot or attacking mid slot?
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47 minutes ago, OJ403 said:
We either have possession and no penetration, no possession
Try have your attacking players on risky and direct passes . i know it sounds counter productive but they wont always waste possesion, instead they are looking for runs and your front will know that they have to make runs
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Guys ive finally made a tactic that im happy with i went for a man city replicatio complettly different of what ive posted some time ago. A little backstory im a liverpool fan soo ive watched a lot of man city especialy in the final end of the season where i was dying for them to loose but spoiler alert they didnt *sad noises*. Soo the advice is going to be something that is already in the thread but i have something new. Soo this is super important, make sure you have someone attacking the box like midfielders in fact my two midfielders are on attack it sounds crazy but i needed them to attack the half spaces and stay there and attack the box at all times, on too the new stuff ive experimented and sounds crazy but it changed the tactic and made so much better. If you are strugling that your players dont make trough balls and they just pass around until they lose it stupidly, try this... (i know it will sound crazy and not very possesion like) make your front line make more risky passes and direct. they will not always do that and lose possesion, but they will now going to look for someone making a run and that forces your attacking players to make runs even if they are on support because they know that someone is looking for them. And believe me if you have good players with the right vision and decision making , this will be a gamechanger for you. Thank you to this thread to make things clearer for me and help me on something that i tought wasnt possible. I dont get 100% wins but i get something that satisfeis me
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6 minutes ago, herne79 said:
We got through it, we had a discussion. No worries
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As we've said, If you can get help from this thread then great, but equally if you get inspiration from other means then also great. There is always more than one way to achieve the same goal.
Yea this thread gave inspiration for other tactics. I wanna make mourinho's RM type tactic as i am a sucker for fast counter attacking and ive build a good one but my only problem is the wingers. example if i put them on the AM slot on support they will not rush, on attack they wont track back. On the midfield slot on attack they kinda do what i want but still not perfect. I know this isn't the thread for that , but if someone wants to give me advice on that it would be apriciated
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Sorry for bringing negativati to this thread. Im not saying this thread is bad. Hell this is the only thread ive been active on and believe me ive learned a lot from it. I just had to post my worries
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7 hours ago, herne79 said:
I want to make an observation here. strikerir and exius, what you are doing is giving each other confirmation bias.
"This is next to impossible".
"Yeh I agree, crosses work best".
"It worries me I'm trying to do something not possible".
"It's very difficult and not the best way to win in this game".
You're agreeing with each other and so reaffirming each other's fears. But the irony is you are both typing this in a thread which demonstrates in a large amount of detail how to go about doing exactly what you say is not possible / very difficult.
Now, strikerir, replaying the same match over and over with different tactical tweaks each time won't help you. Do you actually understand the changes you are making each time, or is it just random until you happen to hit upon something which works? And what happens the next time you come up against a team you lose to? And the time after that? All you are doing is (randomly?) finding a way to beat one particular team, whereas the important part is to actually have a sound base tactic which you can then tweak (if needed) for specific issues you may come across. And you get a sound base tactic from playing against several different teams to understand patterns of play and how players behave in different situations. Look at the part on page two where I reveal my base tactic and how I blanked some things out because those parts may change for different matches or different players used.
I'll also add this thread is not the only way to create an effective possession system. If it's not working for you then try something else. Start with the default system built into the game if you like. Or watch some of rashidi's videos. Or download a high possession tactic from somewhere else and adapt it. There's more than one way to do what you are after, so find the way which you find most effective.
i understand this thread gives great detail on creating a good possesion tactic and ive read it a couple times and ive read everything. And ive learned a lot but still its not working for me. And ive seen my players doing such tings that drive me insane. And ive made something decent but still inconsistent. Im not trying to demoralize no one in fact this tread is my favorite to read but in this 3.5 match engine many people cant get it like they used to do in other iterations of the game
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Man oriented Zonal Marking
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
On point explanation 👍 do you have ideias how to implement it in football manager?