Peter 04
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Posts posted by Peter 04
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vor 5 Stunden schrieb CARRERA:
I don’t think that’s the case, they had above 85% (90% even at some time) pass competition rate even at „slightly more direct passing“. The median of a championship side is around 70% IRL and the better teams around 80%.
So either the stats and how they are calculated are broken or the stamina/ inaccuracy model is ever so slightly that it doesn’t have any real effect. And just from visuals it’s the latter one.
I think that is a good point - and I'd like to add that it is connected to the observation that teams don't use counter tactics that often in FM. In real life, the numbers for pass completion for non-top teams is lower not because they are worse at playing the sport but because they usually try to break quickly resulting in a lot of high risk forward passes that naturally are not successful very often. I do think that this could be tweaked, though. Increasing the tendency of outsider clubs to counter would also punish gegenpress tactics more. (Maybe it is already in the game and we just haven't seen it yet..)
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Something I have forgotten: It would be important that players know about their league positions and their previous performances - and have to deal with the expectations set in them. This could also make more experienced players more useful, because they don't lose their confidence as quickly - or leaders who may help other players calm down (some youngsters may also not feel the pressure of certain situations as much due to their youth). Playing against a hostile crowd intimidates some players (younger more than older or more experienced ones), but others love to go against that atmosphere! So it is really important for a manager to know how the players in your squad work the best, whether they need trust and positive feedback or whether it makes them cocky.. - I think it is a very complex and intricate field that would make the players and the game situations feel more unique!
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Dear all,
again, apologies if that has already been proposed!
I would love to have the area of confidence and lack thereof expanded during a match. We all know how important the psychological aspect of the game is, and I would love it to be represented to a greater extent. To give an example: Let's say my team is the underdog and playing away from home. Maybe my players start hopeful because of my team talk but have to withstand heavy pressure early on. Some players might lose their self-confidence, others get stuck in. Then, they get a penalty awarded - and miss, which gives my team a huge boost, they start to believe they can get something out of the game which makes their passing more precise and helps them not making rash decisions while on the ball. Let's spin this further: We go two goals ahead and feel, the game is won - but they score in the 82nd minute. Some players will lose confidence, others won't.I know that we have body language in the game - and I think that is a good start! My proposal would be to make it a bigger part of the game and more prone to drastic changes during a game, maybe increasing the amount of feedback from the coaches or via the commentary (e.g.: After his last miss, your striker seems unsure of himself - so you have to decide whether to sub him or stay with him; something like: A playeer seems down after his early substitution) - Of course, it would be vital that those pieces of information are reflected on the pitch.
Thank you for your time!
Peter0 -
Dear all,
apologies if that has already been proposed!
My idea is to transport the stadium atmosphere (chants, boos, etc) to the ME to a greater extent. I know that many people, including myself, play the game without sound, so that is NOT what I'm proposing. Rather, I would love to read about stadium atmosphere in the commentary area (the line at the bottom of the screen) in the ME. For example, it would be very nice to read: The Chelsea fans push their team forward: "Come on Chelsea, come on Chelsea!" - or: There is an eerie silence in the stadium. - or: You can only hear the away supporters right now. - Apart from being more immersive it could give you vital information about how the atmosphere might influence the players, whether it gives them confidence, riles them up or makes them doubtful...
Another plus would be, that this could be made moddable, so it wouldn't be necessary to give all the chants beforehand.Thank you for your time!
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vor 14 Minuten schrieb Peter 04:
I must admit, I don't really get your point. Even counting out that this is ONE scene we are arguing on (which is not a great amount of data), it is not the finished game and we have no clue what the players' instructions are, I still don't find it too far away from real life. The whole point of overloading a flank (which is done here by an attacking WCB) is precisely to force defensive players making difficult decisions - e.g. tracking a player or staying in defensive shape. You see that all the time. And in this particular scene the player corrects his mistake fairly quickly and retreats to his position... I do see that the central defender makes a side step and by doing that loses ground on the attacker, but this happens too (might not look great, but we know that this is not the main focus of the ME). Maybe I just did not understand what you have seen that makes you so pessimistic about the finished ME...
I commented on that: "I do see that the central defender makes a side step and by doing that loses ground on the attacker, but this happens too (might not look great, but we know that this is not the main focus of the ME)." I have been playing football managers since the mid 90's, switched to Football Manager 13 years ago and I really do think that in FM21 we had the best ME so far. Was it perfect? By no means, but we all know that this is not to be expected. I have a degree of trust that this year's ME will be an improvement on an already good ME. It will not mean that there won't be issues, but we cannot expect that of a game of such complexity. Just look at hyper complex games like Civilization where there are loads of exploits and imbalances. The more complex a model is the harder it will be to get it better without starting from scratch.. I just think that the expectation to be entitled to a perfect game is not realistic. (This is a general observation and is not necessarily directed at you personally).
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vor 18 Minuten schrieb Nicenoise:
with great pleasure
at first, you cut the moment on 2nd sec where yellow cm runs to atack
few moments later
then on 5th second u can see number 12 who is cb, I think
if you watch video on 0.25 - he is doing madness, no need even to screen
then you watch the movement of 2, he is closing nobody, all the way from the beginning to the end of episode.
In the end you could ask me - was there something right with the defensive movement. you know the answer.btw, have to admit that attacking movement was pretty good.
I must admit, I don't really get your point. Even counting out that this is ONE scene we are arguing on (which is not a great amount of data), it is not the finished game and we have no clue what the players' instructions are, I still don't find it too far away from real life. The whole point of overloading a flank (which is done here by an attacking WCB) is precisely to force defensive players making difficult decisions - e.g. tracking a player or staying in defensive shape. You see that all the time. And in this particular scene the player corrects his mistake fairly quickly and retreats to his position... I do see that the central defender makes a side step and by doing that loses ground on the attacker, but this happens too (might not look great, but we know that this is not the main focus of the ME). Maybe I just did not understand what you have seen that makes you so pessimistic about the finished ME...
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Personally, I am very excited about the effect inaccuracy will have on the ME. It is such a big part of the game - and as a former midfielder it always made me mad when in real life the flow of an attack was stopped because of an inaccurate pass - be it in the CL or in lower leagues.. I would love to hear more about that on twitter or in blog entries!
And, another thing I would love to hear something of: Is there a connection between the psychological aspect of the game and inaccurary? We all know how important self-confidence is and how quickly it can change. In real life, you sometimes see teams that simply don't believe they can win (e.g. games against Bayern Munich), and it shows in their accuracy of passing, shooting etc. Or, if goalscorers are on a poor run, they sometimes overhit a shot and so on. I would love for that to be visible on the pitch, ideally changing during a match: Sometimes, one random stroke of luck or just a nice tackle can rally a team to start believing in themselves again - and more accuracy or more fluent play stems from that. If those things are integrated in the game, I would love to hear about it (I've ordered the game anyway, but it would be still be nice
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vor 24 Minuten schrieb grade:I just saw Miles Announcing on twitter that they added 4000 lines to new team talk & team meeting strings into FM22.
What He doesn't tell and later he confirms is the 4000 lines includes translations. So it's not 4000 lines added it is much, much lower then that.
I'm sorry, but that is not true. Miles confirmed that the 4000 lines have been translated too, not that they are included in that number (which would be silly).
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@tts0
I wholeheartedly agree! Great defenses irl move as a unit and make up for mistakes and tighten up very fluidly if necessary. They move towards the side where the ball is played because they know it takes time for the ball to be switched to the other side so they can temporally leave the other flank open.
What do you think, would it help to slow down the speed of the ball for long passes? Could it help to increase the frequency of midfielders filling up holes that defenders leave when they engage an opponent?
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Yes, it is very effective - but only, if the players execute it well and if the players have the stamina to hold it up for a while. And there are ways to counter pressing tactics - e.g. passing around it or hoofing the ball up field in order to not lose possession in dangerous areas. The latter is actually quite effective if the defending team is physically stronger than the pressing team (I think Barcelona has had that problem a few times in the last years). - It is not and should not be a no brainer to use pressing, it comes with risks as much as with rewards and I would love to see the risk aspect emphasized.
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Okay, I try to do that - hopefully it occurs in my next games!
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I agree, making players more likely to look for the pass would help with the shooting problem. Maybe it could be combined with more last-ditch defending - I always love it if defenders try to rescue a situation by sliding, even if they take more risks then - improving on the situations that already occur would help a lot!
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You are right about the stats, blocked shots don't actually occur that often. But as I said, this thread should be about ideas how to improve the current ME. I am with you that there are too many shots right now but I think there could be ways to change that. Do you have any ideas?
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Yes, the problem is well known - the question is, what can be done about that? I read somewhere that FM counts blocked shots as shots which isn't done in real life match stats. I presume that it is impossible to count them out in order to bring down the number of shots. But since I read that I have been more understanding with having 20-30 shots every game: if you subtract 10 or 15 blocked shots it is actually fairly accurate!
But maybe shots can be limited more by making players refraining from shooting on sight - if not explicitly asked to do so - that often. I guess this would help a lot with the realism and should be possible in the current ME.
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Thank you for your response!
To be clear, with tracking back by wide midfielders I meant the AI doing that. I know that I can manually set that up and I do that and it is effective - and like you I sometimes like to leave wide players up front in order to set them up for counter attacks. But if the AI would also do that and mark the wing backs it would limit their state of being overpowered I assume.
And I absolutely agree that it looks like defenders have slower reaction times than attackers - I believe that there is something to be done here. I would love to play against teams that are as rock solid defensively as say the last few years Atletico Madrid or some Italian sides by just being extremely disciplined in their positioning and quick to react to attackers, meaning they almost never make 'unforced' mistakes. Increasing the reaction speed of the defenders (again, maybe especially the top class defenders) would go a long way with achieving that goal!
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Guys,
there has been quite a lot of negativity in this forum concerning the current state of the FM2020 Beta's Match Engine. I'm not here to complain about the Match Engine again, I think that the problems are known and well documented. I'm just wondering what can be done to make it better and I personally don't believe that it is broken beyond repair at all or that in the last week and a half there is nothing that can be done anyway. So I'd like to start a thread about people's ideas on improving the Match Engine - realistic ideas, not the usual 'start again from scratch' or 'create new animations' and so on. I am aware of the fact that the ME contains very complex and interdependent calculations and changing one thing has trickle down effects. But maybe there are some elements that could be tweaked (personally I would love some sliders to play around with and having people get creative with settings producing different ME experiences, but that's just me).
Some of the ideas I'd like to propose have been brought up by other people in this forum - so this list is not really all my work. I am under no illusion that these ideas will be totally new to the creators, but it seems less frustrating to be positive. Maybe I learn something about your ideas of how it may become the Match Engine that wonderful game deserves!
A. I think in an interview Miles revealed one of the biggest problems of the current ME version: offensive play is simply more effective than defensive play (due to offensive movement being a point of emphasis for that ME). In trying to mask that and not let the results get out of hand completely, I believe things like the 1v1-situation, the shots from difficult angles instead of passing or crossing and the penalty disadvantage have been introduced. The main question therefore is imho, how to get a better balance between attack and defense - or simply, how to make the defense look/behave better without obviously cheating and making the offense worse again. Here are some of the ideas I've found.
1. People complained about the back four being to narrow, leaving acres of space to the sides. That is not completely unrealistic: Football teams do try to tighten the space in front of goal, but it is not uncommon for the wide midfielders to track back and occasionally form a back 6 or central midfielders helping out and filling in. I don't know about the latter but the former, the tracking back of wide midfielders would limit the space of the marauding full backs that right now wreak too much havoc.
2. I read that somewhere on this forum and found it a very interesting idea: Could be the big problem of those frequent perfect long passes simply be the speed of the ball? If the ball would be travelling slower in the air, the defense could maybe react better and wouldn't be caught off guard that often. This also leaves room for more visible differences between average and truly elite passers of the ball!
3. I do think that defensive positioning has been improved but I think defensive players could be more intelligent in trying to prevent players from getting the ball in dangerous areas by making them play to the flanks. Maybe you have ideas about tweaks to defensive positioning?
4. On the offensive side of the ball the problems of too many shots per game has been raised. Maybe this could be tweaked by making the players less trigger happy - unless tactically told otherwise. High level football contains a fair amount of probing, patient waiting for space that isn't just there but has to be created by off the ball runs or dribblings or passing combinations. I do believe that the current Match Engine could have it in itself to show more of that - maybe that is too much to ask in this version.
B. Another main issue imho is that attacking and aggressive tactics are not being punished enough. I mean by that that even mediocre teams can easily overwhelm good opposition by pushing forward in numbers without constantly getting caught out of possession or just passed put of the park. See how often great teams simply work around aggressive pressing, tiring and frustrating the opposition. What can realistically be done about that?
1. A simple and to my mind realistic and achievable solution I read in the forum was: Harshly improving the 'penalty' for pressing through fatigue. Only a select few teams after very long time of training (e.g. Liverpool) are able to hold up pressing for a long period of time during the game. Being forced to switch back from relentlessly pressing the opposition to a more cautious approach would open up the game I believe. 'Penalties' could be fatigue but also more lapses in concentration leading to errors or cards.
2. A lot of people have complained about the effectiveness of through balls over the top of the defenders - I disagree! It should be dangerous to be very attacking precisely because the opposition exploits the space behind the full backs or in front of the centre backs. Being forced to play with more caution would also help with the amount of shots per game.
3. Right now there is no real reason to prefer cautious approaches to Gegenpress or extremely attacking ones because the AI does not react to them. I think it would be important to make tactical approaches even more of a scissor-paper-rock-thing meaning that there are always antidotes to counter specific tactical approaches of the opposition. If the opposition would try exploit the weaknesses of my approach more ruthlessly I would think again attacking them with all I have playing outsider in a CL quarter final. I have no idea if that latest point is something that you guys already experience in the game - to me I would love to be challenged more by my opponent. Again - maybe with the current limitations of the ME there is not much to improve here but I wanted to bring it up.
What do you guys, fellow managers and SI creators, think of all this? Do you have other ideas or explanations?
Cheers and many thanks to SI and the passionate FM fan base from Germany!
Peter
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*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
I have to disagree. Currently playing with OM in League 1 and play wonderful footbal with a variety of chances and goals, some from the flanks but most from the middle. Could it be that your tactics just don't work? I had to tinker quite a bit in preseason to get the team going but now they are just a joy to watch!