Fflow
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Posts posted by Fflow
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I ment my striker can play PF so if it works, it solves a lot of my problems
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2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
PF on attack duty
works for me, thanks !
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3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Yes, in this particular tactic it's a better (more sensible) option. Or BWM on support duty can also be a good choice (depending on the player). With a carrilero (or BWM) in MCR, you may even consider the overlap right instruction as an option occasionally.
Ok I'll try that
3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:a lot better combination would be WB and AML (IF) on support and only the mezzala on attack. In that case, I would also consider the striker on attack duty, but in a simpler and more direct role (not
CF).AF ? That would solve a lot of my problems
3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:Mentality and style of play are not the same thing, so these descriptions can be misleading if you take them literally.
I know that's why I add probably too much team instructions
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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:
Defense-wise, neither flank looks sufficiently protected, with both wide forwards on attack duties, both fairly attack-minded fullbacks and no holding/covering CM role. Of course, it will probably be less of a problem if you manage a very strong (top) team, because the players might be good enough overall to mitigate the risk by means of their sheer quality, but you still need to be careful anyway.
Ok thanks. So I coult start with a CAR instead of my BBM cor example ?
1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:Attacking-wise - and I guess this part concerns you more than the defensive aspect
Yes but I've lost too many matches against direct competitors not to care
1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:you have a number of roles in advanced areas that are either highly mobile or highly creative or both at the same time, and on top of that looking to operate in and attack essentially similar (close) areas of the final third (especially problematic in this particular respect is having both the mezzala on attack duties on the same side)
I've tried swiching my mezzala and my left back's duties, I won that game 3-0 but with 29 shots to 3 it's a bare minimum (ah and Dembélé played RMD, he found himself in a lot more scoring positions but didn't score and got a 6.0 rating, + I guess this won't help with my defensive problems on the left flank)
1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:Do you at least have an idea of what style of football you'd like to play (patient possession, progressive possession, simple counter, fluid counter, fast attack, methodical attack etc.)?
I've got a pretty good idea, yes, even though I don't know how you'd call it: high pressing, counter if possible but if there's no counter option, try to work it into the box. I found that the game description of the attacking mentality describes quite well the kind of football I want to play
58 minutes ago, Justified said:I don't think playing a striker on an attacking role is "impossible". But obviously you need to make sure there is space for him to run into. If you can create a sit-soak-hit system you could easily have him in an attacking role. With the current instructions you're far from that though. If you have a default D-Line and engage lower you let the other team out of their shape and thus create space for Dembele. You'd need to add a bit of tempo though otherwise they just get back in shape and you've got no space.
Thanks, I see what you mean but with a striker on attacking role, it's more the space behind him that worries me than the space in front of him
And it's hard to play a pure counter based style with a top team in Ligue 1 because you will play most matches against teams that just want a 0-0
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22 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
Roles and duties are fairly unbalanced
which part ?
23 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:instructions do not help either, because they contradict the setup of roles and duties (which - as I already said - is also problematic by itself)
Thing is, I have no idea how to match instructions and my setup. I generally use instruction that fit my players (play out from defense for example because I have good ball playing defenders, or low crosses because all my other forwards are small and quick) and don't contradict each other (high line of engagement and low defensife line for example) but beyond that...
I've been looking (on this forum and elsewhere) for some kind of team instructions guide but I didn't really learn anything new
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32 minutes ago, zindrinho said:
DLP even with his terrible tackling and marking skills? With him being only 171cm (5ft8" if I'm not mistaken) seems like a weak spot to have in defence.
That's why it needs to be with a support duty
32 minutes ago, zindrinho said:the tactics screen says he's very poorly suited for WPM on MR position.
That's what your assistant is saying, but you don't want to give too much importance to what they say. The tactical familiarity screen (you can see ot on the right of your second screenshot) will give you a better idea of his ability to play with a particular role (select the position, role and duty you want and look at the last blue bar) but it's only his current ability so even if it's low you can still train him in this role and position. It will quickly improve
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1 hour ago, sherifdinn_ said:
Looking at heat map I can't help but think if a real life team. Barcelona. They field so many ball hogging players but place little emphasis on penetration.
The case seems th same here. There's no problem in fielding 5 technicians on the pitch the problem is just providing balance between possession and penetration.
That being said you should know that when you play a 4 or 5 midfield to shouldn't play a Mez-At its a peudo-10 role and he will only come in the way of the actual #10. I'd drop him down to support (or maybe use BBM that way he can arrive late and join the attack) this will give you a solid possession base and now all you need is to Balance the front 3. I'd switch it slightly to this:
DLF(s) Or P
Treq - SS. Am(s) - SS
went for the secont option
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I would have said DLP/S but it seems a shame to waste his crossing ability so maybe wide playmaker ?
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Hi everyone !
I'm trying to set up a 4-3-3 but I've got a striker whom I thought would leave this summer and he is exactly what you don't want your striker to look like in a 4-3-3:
Spoiler
I've been trying out different ways to play with Dembélé but none of them seems to be working very well. As he is (by far) my main goal scoring threat, I can't really use him as a support player. I've tried CF/Abut having a striker with an attack duty in 4-3-3 is problematic, so I had to try something else. The main idea I've been working on is something like this (Dembélé being #9):
Spoiler
what my players are currently doing right what they're doing wrong what I'd like them to do instead
Counter attack and high intense counter-press
Translated into FM:
Spoiler
+ special instructions to my RB so I can get crosses to Dembélé:
(clashes with the "low crosses" team instruction but he's clever enough to know he has to lift the ball if he wants it to reach the far post from a deep position)
So basically, try to focus play on the right flank (my BBM and my RB have good ball playing abilities) while keeping an eye for openings on the left one. If there are no openings and they can't go through the right side, the RB can go for a cross from a deeper position aiming at Dembélé. The Mezzala is there to help with the lack of ball playing abilities on my left flank, so it's another player able to make short passes into the box.
The first issue I have is that Dembélé doesn't really find himself in scoring positions. He often gets the ball either too far from the goals or at an acute angle that forces him to use his left foot, usually to cross (and when he tries a header..). Same thing for my LB, I'd like him to make deeper runs without the ball and be able to try low, backwards crosses to Dembélé (or someone else).
The other issue I have is that I don't want to ask them to work the ball into the box because A- it slows down pace and B- I still want to hit some early crosses and I have several good long distance shooters who can be useful (especially since I don't have much close range finishers). But I'd still like to have shoots from inside the box
SpoilerAll my shoots from the first half time of last match (against a weaker side)
Ane here's the 2nd half time, with "work ball into the box" on:
Bad luck, the only time a cross could have found Dembélé in a good scoring position, Da Silva got on the ball before him (shoot from #21)
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3 minutes ago, Juninho25 said:
I thought about using a box-to-box and a MEZ but thought this may make me too narrow on one side.
Well, these narrow formations are naturally a bit unbalanced anyway (but so are most formations), you just have to work with it. If you're gonna ask everyone to run wide to compensate for the lack of wingers then you might as well use wingers
22 minutes ago, Juninho25 said:Have also used a TREQ in the AM role before with no success! Perhaps it was due to the imbalance elsewhere that it did not work.
If you didn't take into account the fact that you swapped a support duty for an attack duty, then you're probably right
18 minutes ago, Juninho25 said:Have others made similar shapes work on FM20 or al I fighting a losing FB battle?
I've taken up Lyon to the 2020 Champion's league final mostly using a diamond formation so I'd say it's possible
I used the same kind of front 3 (a F9 instead of the DLF and I quickly swapped my AM for an EG), and an AP/S as my "narrow" CM and a HB to allow my wing backs to push higher
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Rather low defensife line, high tempo and pass into space, you might start by adding "counter" to your team instructions. What mentality is your team in ?
About players roles and duties:
If you don't want your DLP in a deeper position (from where he could drop between your CB if you get counter attacked, but i'm not sure a DLP will do that anyway), you'll need to balance your defense a bit with a support duty on one wing or the other.
3 hours ago, Juninho25 said:I have also tried variation on the flanks (carrilero/ wing back attack on one....full back support / Mezzala attack on the other with no luck)
Something along those lines should work, maybe try a WB/S instead of the FB/S (the FB is too limited to be used as a lone wide player). If you want to keep a FB, use him on the wing with the CAR and give him an attack duty, it should do the trick
You can keep a MEZ/S instead of your CAR if you like but I'd try a BBM. I've always had better results not using both my wide CM as mezzalas or carrileros
And then there's your AMC. An AM/S will tend to stay in his area, easy for opponents to mark but opening channels for other players to play into. If you want to strengthen that effect, try an EG.
If, however, you want your AMC to have more room to develop his game, you'll have to give him more freedom. A trequarista will definitly do the trick but you'll have to take into account the fact that he is only available with an attack duty. Also, a trequarista is always useful when playing in 4-3-1-2 or 4-4-2 diamond because it roams into wide positions to get the ball and find passing lines. It's a good way to get width in a narrow formation
So maybe something like this:
Not quite sure on which wing you should use your WB/A, though. Not on the same side as the AF, for sure, I don't know if it's better suited to play with a MEZ or a BBM
3 hours ago, Juninho25 said:I don’t know how to do screenshots, so will type info below:
1- preference -> interface mode: windowed
2- use any screenshot software (the default one on windows is good enough)
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On 30/03/2020 at 20:28, Fflow said:
Ok thanks, I've started training him as a CWB/At, we'll see how he develops
It's working \o/
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On 31/03/2020 at 00:19, DiStru_ said:
What kind of system would a Trequartista fit in as striker (some examples)? Not sure I fully understand its movement, I know it's a ball magnet and has Ease Of Tackles locked in, but what are some other key characteristics of it? I have a striker that's great creator and am not sure whether to go with a DLF or Treq. I'm trying to play a patient possession style, with a top heavy formation.
Defensively speaking, I'd say it has to be a shape system. Since the Tqa virtually doesn't defend it will be hard to press high, especially if you play with a lone striker
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But even a runner needs to be at least a bit unpredictable. We're not talking 7 or 8 flair
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He's called Amine Gouiri, not "Gouri"
And i'm pretty sure there's an H somewhere in Osimhen
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9 hours ago, zyfon5 said:
Flair and technique just reflects creativity of a player a wingback doesn't need to be creative to do well
2 hours ago, Nikitas said:Looks like a wing back (s).
He has good physical attributes, if his speed got better he would be a good wing back.
In midfield he could be a dlp (s) at most, nothing more attacking. He has good decisions and if his teamwork and positioning get better he could be a good holding midfielder.
but his game will be predictable any way won't it ?
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1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:
Why would he be useless? There are a number of roles that do not require flair.
Btw, flair may be slightly improved if you train the player in a role that targets the flair as an attribute (among other attributes related to that particular role), but you cannot expect any notable improvement, especially when the starting point is so low.
ok, useless is a strong word. What I mean is that if he reaches 25 and still has 3 or 4 flair, and I play him let's say as a WB/Su, his lack of flair will be penalizing. Even if it's not realy needed for the job
Ok thanks, I've started training him as a CWB/At, we'll see how he develops
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5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
For a DLP flair is less important than for more progressive playmaker roles (AP, regista, RPM and especially TQ), but I can agree that 1 is really too low anyway.
so as there are no way to improve flair (unless i'm mistaken), that player should be useless anyway
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I've got this wonderkid who looks like he could become an awesome DLP but he only has 1 flair
He can play RB but he's not very good at crossing and anyway, lack of flair will be a handicap wherever he plays, right ?
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1 hour ago, mikcheck said:
Hello,
My U-20 and U-18 squads are using the same first team tactics, but I want their coaches to chose what they think its best.
How can I change it? Because under responsabilities, each coach is responsible for their tactics.
just there (sorry for the lousy paint job)
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I have an ambidextrous set pieces taker, anyone knows if there's a way to force him to use his left foot ?
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20 minutes ago, BMNJohn said:
The problem with EG is that the role will make him not move at ALL, which means he'll be very easily marked out of the game. You're removing his freedom to move, and therefore removing his freedom to lose his markers. If you don't want him to dribble, use AP(S) at the very least, but he's not that bad of a dribbler: his Flair is excellent as well as his Technique, Agility and Balance. He's just not as good as Hazard at dribbling, but there's no reason to remove his freedom. And you did notice he wasn't performing as EG or AM(S): those are very mild roles who don't do much and are easy to mark out of the game, especially since they don't move much.
that's what I call "every secondary trait that will improve your dribbling"
(+first touch)
Same thing, 15 passing could be considered a weakness for an AP of this quality but 19 vision and 18 flair is a pretty good way to compensate that
23 minutes ago, BMNJohn said:That's the problem with EG: it's supposed to mimic Riquelme, but Riquelme was very good at dribbling and retaining possession of the ball under pressure; he just was very slow so he couldn't get past 4 or 5 players. But if he had to, he definitively would dribble his way out of tricky situations instead of standing there doing nothing like the EG role. On top of that, putting a playmaker from Attack to Support duty also lowers their Mentality. It means that they will be risk adverse on top of that and won't try tough plays. That's why I think it wasn't a good idea from SI to shift the EG role from Attack to Support: not only it doesn't move at all, it also tries risky plays less often too. And if that wasn't enough, EG also doesn't help much with defending too.
Thing is I have other players who were gery good as EG (Thiago Almada, F. Da Silva) even though they are both still very young (Da Silva is 16) and with them I was able to play a CL's final on my first year with Lyon so they must be good at something
14 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:As I said, giving a player/role an attack duty does not makes your attacking play more effective, nor does it solve goal-scoring problems. You also need to keep in mind the formation you use. Different formations have different "rules" in terms of setting up roles and duties.
No but if it doesn't upset the overall balance of your tactic (which I didn't know it did), it will give that particular player a preponderant role in your attacking game
But anyway, discussing why I did a particular mistake is a bit off-topic
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6 hours ago, BMNJohn said:
It's their opinion, but it's not based on hogwash either. Positional ability is an attribute that each player possesses; playing a player out of position see them take a hit to their Decisions. It's not that bad: if a player has the attributes to perform somewhere else and you need them there even if he has a red circle forthe role/position, just do it. What your AssMan says about it is irrelevant.
ok thanks
6 hours ago, BMNJohn said:A WInger is a role that creates differences and opportunity with their speed and dribbling. You need them to be somewhat smart in order not to do stupid things with the ball, but they still need to be fast. That said, you don't have to play a fast player on the wings if you ask them to do something else. Physical attributes are really important: a player can have all the technique and intelligence in the world, if they're too slow or weak for the job, they can't do the job. That's why old players retire: that's not because they have worse technique or are dumber than when they were young; it's because they can't keep up physically.
But as I said, you can very well play them as another role than Winger. There are other roles available, and some rely more on the ability to be at the right place at the right time (Off The Ball offensively, Positioning defensively) rather than just being fast. Back in FM17, I had played Lo Celso as a right Wide Midfielder and sometimes Wide Playmaker in a flat 4-1-4-1. He wasn't outright slow, but his pace was very unimpressive for an elite winger (14-15 Pace/Acceleration) and he had an horrible 6 in Stamina for some reason. For a good year and an half, he decided that he would be pretty much unstoppable and won Ballon d'Or.
Since he's naturally a playmaker, he was incredibly intelligent with and without the ball, allowing him to score and deliver lots of assists despite being played with a role (Wide Midfielder) and position (MR, not even AMR) that in theory his not where he plays the best. But I needed a good left-footed right winger, so that's where I played him. And you can bet your ass that my AssMan complained about it every day, but I didn't care and neither did Lo Celso.When I said "as a winger" I ment "as an AM L/R" obiously, I know pure wingers need to be fast. I intended to play him as an IF/A but 11-12 is not just "very unimpressive", he's the slowest player in my team (and that includes several 16 y.o.).
6 hours ago, BMNJohn said:EDIT: Also, EG is IMO a poor attempt to reproduce the way a player like Riquelme used to play. EGs are way too static, and now that they're on Support they have pretty poor Mentality (how risky they play) on top of that. Even if I had a slow AMC, I'd rather play them as AP or Treq than EG. At least they try to move.
again, James is very slow anyway so I'd rather have him focus on something else than just "moving"
Besides, he's not that good in outright dribbling or passing so I'd say it disqualifies him as an AP but he's awesome at every secondary trait that will improve your drbbling or your passing, so I thought using him as a pivot would work
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On 27/03/2020 at 19:06, Fflow said:
Hi !
Throughout my first season, I've often had players (especially young ones) who were unhappy with training programs because they want more quickness sessions. So far I've given them a personal quickness training but I can't keep doing that. The obvious solution would be to set up more quickness sessions but A- I don't think that's the point I should insist on and B- quickness sessions are pretty intense and my schedrule is pretty full with games at the moment. Anyone has the same issue ? Does it pass after a while if you keep ignoring them ?
Thanks !
following up, there was one player who still was pestering me about it, one quickness sessions later he complains there are too much of them
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"que des 10 dans ma team" - how to play with sh*tloads of playmakers ?
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by Fflow
@BMNJohn Update : no they don't
The bottom line is from when he mostly played AM/S or EG, the top line now that I use him as an AP or IF in AMR position