[Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year]

Have a very merry Christmas and joyous New Year all managers! Stay safe stay happy. 

[Consistently average average match rating]

9 hours ago, Jaketomsett said:

I've been playing with Farnborough and have been very successful with a flat 4-4-2 tactic I've developed. However, I don't seem to get any of my midfielders to 'play well' in the DLP (defend) role. Many of them are very well suited to this role, but the highest average rating over a season is usually 6.80 ish. I'm on mobile so haven't got actual data and figures, and this isn't a complaint about the nature of the game or anything like that.

Now I'm aware that match ratings aren't everything, but because I watch games on key highlights only (my relative success means I don't need to go too much deeper) I do use ratings as well as key passes etc to help decide who to keep and who to sell.

Really, I'm wondering the cause of the low (ish) ratings. Is it my players not doing their jobs? My tactic requiring the DLP to sit back and simply pass the ball around therefore they lack goals and assists (which boost match rating significantly) or something else possibly? Should I be looking at other statistics to help me decide who to keep?

I'll post up my tactic if that would help, but wondered if anyone has any ideas or experiences the same thing?

 

As other users had and will repeatedly mention - players do not play in isolation. Football is a team game.

For example, if your DLP being a playmaker role, has no other players in space and available for a pass. His passes will very likely get intercepted, resort to passing back to the keeper, or not pass at all. This may result in his low match ratings.

Hope this helps in your tactic creation. 

[Sunderland 4-2-3-1 Need help]

10 hours ago, Kourner said:

Thanks for your tips  however I do not understand what you mean with pivot... I can not find this position.

As shown in your latest setup, I think you now better understand the idea of using pivots. Kudos to @pheelf for the explanation.

The CMde and BWMde are now acting as your pivots to hold the team formation and shape together during transition and attacking. 

[Sunderland 4-2-3-1 Need help]

1 hour ago, Kourner said:

After reading quite around I decided to keep going and make some changes. The thing that made change my playing was a message that said most people tries to play too offensive, so I realized that this was my mistake, I made couple adjustments and since then I am first in the league. However I do not feel that I am playing good and when I played any premier team in the cup, they swept me by 0-3 and 0-3 (and where bottom league in the premier). Also lately I am struggeling to score and to win... I rely too much in Racine and Klimala (the last one the lasts games is not scoring). Any tips are welcome

This screen alone is pretty self-explanatory. The reddish squares on your MCL and MCR clearly indicate there are issues with their roles and duties. It is obvious there is no player playing as a pivot in your 4231, which essentially is a 2 pivot formation. IMHO your whole setup is rather unbalanced too.

Hope this helps you to understand what is wrong. Many a times, the game does tell us where the flaws are if we know where to look. 

[Space Orientated Defense]

8 hours ago, Nol1968 said:

I started playing Football Manager in December, so I guess I'm pretty new. I have a "playing philosophy" I work toward in my saves, in summary I like highly attacking overlapping Fullbacks/Wingbacks, lots of width to stretch the opposition, a back three who are all BPDs sometimes with a Libero, and a space-orientated defensive block (low pressing urgency). I have had two main saves with Man United, starting on my third. I have won the PL in my second season both times, and have implemented all of my checkpoints into my team with the exception of the last. I seem to only be successful with a tactic that presses urgently. Any tips for a high/mid block tactic? I know BWM often compromise these systems like an Anchorman can compromise a pressing system, but any tips for other positions? Offsides trap works like a charm with a high(er) line of engagement, can that be compromised with a high line of defense and a low line of engagement?

Complex prompt, but I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem

If I understand your post correctly, you wish to play low pressing urgency on a high/mid defensive block. I'm afraid this is going to be very challenging. Because IMHO this will lead to opponents often overrunning your defensive line  with counterattacks and over the top balls from deep.

[Everything TOTAL Football (From Cruyff's 343 to Guardiola's Overloads) - UPDATED Feb 28, 2023]

16 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

 

Keep up the good work! 

DLPde is a good choice at DM, I am just curious on your decision to use DLPde instead of HBde or REGsu? I am guessing it is to keep the players in a strict 2-3-5 formation during attack.

 

[Opinions on clean slate tactic]

3 hours ago, TEGER said:

Forgive my stupidity but PPMs? Sorry I’m not following haha.

Player Preferred Moves. Or also known as Player Traits.

[Opinions on clean slate tactic]

13 hours ago, TEGER said:

Hi,

Just want to get people’s thoughts on the preset tactics compared to a clean slate tactic option.

What have you found works well on your saves?

I have tested and found that all the preset tactics do work. Problem is they require suitable (actually very capable) players to make them work. Arguably, some users believe that having good players can produce results in any tactic. My testings have shown otherwise but that is another can of worms up for separate discussion. My findings are that without suitable players to fit the specific roles/duties/instructions in the preset tactics, they fail to produce good results. Especially the individual PPMs, they tend to mess things up quite a bit. Hence it becomes easier to create our own tactics to suit existing players in the team.

However, creating good tactics from a clean slate to produce results in FM20 can be rather challenging for some. Nonetheless, both preset and clean slate options are good ways to learn the beautiful game. 

[A little help with my 4-2-3-1]

13 hours ago, thizaum said:

Hi there,

Well, as I said, I'm open to changing pretty much anything (so no real need to keep it intact). How would your suggestions allow the team to control possession? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this moves the team to playing in a neutral manner.

I used Balanced mentality only because your original setup was on Balanced. Every mentality can play possession football, it all depends on how the tactic is setup. Mentality is merely how much risk the team or player is told to take or avoid. Less risk on defensive mentality, more risk on attacking mentality, and respectively in between. Most importantly, different mentalities require the players' roles/duties/instructions to be setup differently if you wish to achieve results.

13 hours ago, thizaum said:

This is what people call split block?

Yup.

13 hours ago, thizaum said:

And you create this by pretty much "spacing out" as far as possible every adjacent role, right? It makes sense.

Yes you got half the concept right. The respective positions and movements that the other players will take according to their roles/duties/instructions are important too. And this is why your 2 latest setups are still not performing optimally.

Hope this clarifies and help your tactic creations. 

[A little help with my 4-2-3-1]

6 hours ago, thizaum said:

Hey guys,

I'm currently finishing the 25/26 season, my first with a top a flight club in Europe. Before that, I had a very successful (and long) run in South America.

The formation that I was using there was a fluid 4-2-3-1. The goals were high possession and high passing rate, with plenty of shots and restricting the opposition as simple outcomes from this. All of this was achieved there and that's how I got this job.

The problem is that I simply cannot get the formation to work in the new club. I've done a lot of tweaking to get to the one you see attached, but I still see the following:

 

Current problems:

- The front 4 under perform in general and also don't really score a lot. (Note, depending on the player, the left winger can be an IW);

- Not too many chances created (we either get a lot of shots but not many chances against smaller clubs and not many shots against top clubs. (Note: I tend to vary from Balanced, Positive and Attacking depending on the opposition and home or away);

- The keeper gets too many touches. The keeper, the CBs and the CMs get more or less the same number of passes throughout a match. I constantly see the ball being sent back all the way from the midfield;

- The opposition is getting too many chances and shots;

- The team feels unreliable on attack and unsafe on defense.

 

Old problems (not happening now):

- Too many crosses (60-80 per match), even with WBiB;

 

Successes:

- It depends on the opposition, but in general we get high possession and high passing rates;

- The CMs generally perform well;

 

Questions:

- Do you see anything being done wrong or have any kind of suggestion?

- Are my comments compatible to what would be expected of this formation?

- Is there something that obviously have to be changed in my mindset when I move from a top south american club to a top european club?

 

Note: please don't say 4-2-3-1 or AMC is flawed in FM2020. I'm aware of this but I did have success before with it.

Note2: I'm open to any suggestion, granted I keep the 4-2-3-1 shape, including changing the formation.

Note3: the goal with having too many support duties was to increase possession and "fluidity". When I move up to Positive, I add one att duty and when I move up Attacking, I add another one.

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 

 

Keeping the above setup intact as much as possible, I suggest trying the following changes (Balanced mentality only) to improve on your overall offence and defence:

• Add player instructions pressing intensity more urgent to AML, AMC, AMR, STC
• If you must have a playmaker (I understand many users are obsessed with playmakers, and must have at least one or more for some reason), change AMC AMsu to APsu

Contrary to the beliefs of many other users, I do not feel that the AMC position is flawed or impossible to play well. It feels more difficult to make it work because it is very important to create space and have suitable player roles/duties around the AMC. Compared to other FM versions prior to FM20, it is absolutely less forgiving than other positions when not implemented well. Hence leading to the frustrations of many users with the 4231.

Hope this helps. 

[Plymouth Argyle Tactics Help]

14 hours ago, danbanbury said:

That makes sense. Do you think that area of the pitch could be overcrowded? 

Ill try and include some examples later on but from what i see sometimes in games is that my two centre mids are really far apart. Could this be an issue? 

Also do you think the instructions could be an issue? 

This is because DLP drops deeper while the MEZat goes wider and surges forward. This creates space allowing the DLP to do his playmaking thing. You can also use MEZsu instead of MEZat to keep him closer to midfield, however this may blunt your offence. In this case, you may choose to change AMR Wsu to Wat. However it may throw the balance of the right flank off and require adjusting the role/duty/instructions of your RB, CMR, and DM. There are many ways to skin the same cat, you can also choose to change the DM HBde to DMde to help occupy the space vacated by the MEZat. But again to balance the setup, changes to other players will be required. We can also use a CMat instead of MEZat, so on and so forth. All these are merely changes to player roles/duty only, we are not even considering changes to team mentality, formation, instructions to achieve how we want the team to play.

Thus, as you (and I hope other users too) will realize, setting up a tactic is about getting all 11 players to play cohesively together. I have seen too many users approach their tactics one player at a time trying to shoehorn their players into specific roles/duty.

Sidetracked for a bit, I hope this helps you in your tactics creation. 

[Plymouth Argyle Tactics Help]

11 hours ago, danbanbury said:

Thanks for the advice, can i ask why you would make those changes? Keen to understand peoples thinking behind the changes/tactics.

As different position/role/duty occupy and move differently on the pitch, the changes aim to create space for each position to link up effectively during the 3 phases of play, ie defence, transition, offence.

[What can I improve in my tactic? - Man Utd S2]

7 hours ago, BrianBrobbey said:

Hi guys,

 

I really love playing fm and the hours I put into fm20 reflect that, I want to play with my own created tactics and I've had some success in doing so and gotten a lot of fun out of it. However from time to time this tactic creation also proves to be something which I haven't completely grasped yet, sometimes leaving me clueless in the process. I created this tactic but I'd like to learn from it from you guys as well, just to get some extra insights. Are there any things that stand out as something which could become a problem ? 

My aim is to create fast and beautiful football since I have some really fast players with good flair, vision and passing. Also, most of my players have good workrate and determination so I want to press high. Dribbling is also a high stat throughout my attacking force, while my midfield is creative, good in passing and can also have a crack at goal from long range but I'm not too sure if I want to capitalize on this. I want my Attack to be the main goal scoring threat, hence why I put them on attacking duty, however I wouldn't mind if Fekir joined in creating chances. I want my midfield front 2 to be creating most of the assists, while Florentino Luis should be the lock holding it together and recycling possession. I always have some issues on deciding what to do with my backs and centerbacks, I usually just plan 6/7 friendlies and see which roles get the best grades after a game since everytime I try to think of something that's 'logical' they just get a 6.4 or 6.5. Also, I never really get the overlap shout, how does it combine with wingers that are cutting inside? Wouldn't this hold up play too much? That's what I'm afraid of, holding up play too much and then creating a cul de sac in the opponents defense, I like to keep things moving, fast and fluid, since my players are also fairly determined and intelligent. Is the tactic I put above somewhat a representation of what I'm trying to achieve?

Also, how can I properly analyze my tactic in game? I play the entire pre-season in 2D, extensive highlights in order to determine weak spots and focus points but it just makes me tweak the tactic till it's something completely different from what I set out. Are there any guidelines or processes you have for yourself in creating and analyzing a tactic?  Finally, is there some sort of archive with articles on tactical creation? I already checked a lot of youtube, reddit, this forum and just articles in general, I got the basics but I just want to take the tactical aspect of my game to a bit of a higher level. 

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

 

Cheers

By keeping your above setup intact as much as possible, I suggest trying the following tweaks:

• Add player instructions pressing intensity more urgent to STC, AML, AMR

Hope this helps. 

[Plymouth Argyle Tactics Help]

9 hours ago, danbanbury said:

Hey All,

Currently in 10th after 14th, really thought we'd be doing a little better. Scored the 10th highest amount of goals and conceded the 6th most goals. Here is the current tactic based, i'm not sure how to change it, with the firepower in the team i'd really expect us to be scoring more often than we are. In terms of players the only real changes to the team are in the CM slots. I feel the two players there are upgrades on the previous players.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated. 

Based on your above setup and making as few changes as possible, I suggest trying the following changes:

• Add player instructions more urgent pressing intensity to STC, AML, AMR, MCR
• If still find difficulty in scoring, change either F9 to DLFat, or IFsu back to IFat
• If RB is not competent enough to play IWBsu, change to FBsu instead

Hope this helps. 

[my 4231 and issues]

On 04/06/2020 at 06:37, mbar8t6 said:

not sure i can post a pic with real kits and facepack showing on tactical screen?

just in case

 

 

10 hours ago, mbar8t6 said:

Its all good. I give up anyway, I've tried things suggested on here and reading other threads, i think my tactic looks as though it should work but it just doesn't. we've scored 40 goals in 34 league games and i'm 6th. 

it's probably my own fault whether it's training related or too many young players I don't know. but we played better and scored more with much worse players while still trying to play like a big team. 

it's got to a point where we are lucky to have 6 shots a match and losing possession battles against teams in the bottom 3. I'm going to resign and see what crops up and go from there. 

Seeing how exasperated you are, based on the above screenshot of your setup and keeping it as similar as possible, I suggest making the following changes and see if there is any improvement:

Add player instructions pressing intensity more urgent to AML, STC, and AMR.

Hope this helps. 

[Counter Tactic + DLP = counter-intuitive ?]

IMHO a DLP works great at initiating counter attacks, when allowed to launch long passes upfield from deep (DM strata). 

[Help with my 4231]

10 hours ago, yorkie87 said:

I agree that I prefer someone staying central and being a Goalscorer. Not sure why it’s not working. Change the shorter passing to standard maybe?

Have you tried using AF instead.
 

Hope this helps. 

[my 4231 and issues]

16 hours ago, mbar8t6 said:

What other options could i have to stop this knocking the ball around between the DLP, Cbs and FB? maybe if my DLP was on support instead? would this make him more likely to pass up the pitch quicker, maybe even move a bit higher up?

Food for thought - Try playing some other role in that position instead of a DLP. 

[my 4231 and issues]

3 hours ago, mbar8t6 said:

Would a SS in the AMC slot offer more support to the striker? Then it’s just an aggressive 442 in a way? Maybe playing narrow to keep my players closer together but then how do I get around a stacked narrow defence? Is having both wide men cutting in a problem? I can take the criticism on board, that’s what I’m looking for but also helping me understand how another way would be better would help

Your tactic shows the MEZsu, IWsu, AMsu, IFsu, and PFat all attacking the same space (middle of pitch AM strata). This is highlighted in your screenshot with the bright green squares. This makes it easy for opponents to defend and crowd your players out. Playing narrow will make it worse. If you watch the matches in full, you will see the players frequently running into each other. My advice is to imagine each player's position during the attacking phase and position them (using roles/duties) with sufficient passing lanes to one another.

 

Hope this helps. 

[High press with a 442]

13 hours ago, nidhar.ram said:

I want my team to defend in a 442 high up the pitch with the aim of winning the ball in the opponents half. 

Below is my defensive set-up.

I am a top team so expect most of my opposition to sit back and play meaningless side ways passes with their backline and I want to stop that from happening.

My players have good mental and physical skills; so I am expecting them to win the ball in opposition half.

-- Can balanced mentality achieve high press? I think it can but with a 442 and 8 players stationed rather deep, can it work?

-- What defensive TI's can help?

-- Which players should I ask to close down more? wide players?

-- counter press ? This often breaks the two banks of four and opposition easily play through my press.

-- Marking specific players? - Can I use it on my midfield players to close opposition's midfield? What are the disadvantages to it?

 

 

I have achieved such a defensive strategy before using ONLY:

• Balanced mentality
• Counterpress
• Higher LOE
• Much higher DL
• Extremely urgent pressing
• Use offside trap

However it only works with very good players on well sort out roles and duties. In short, possible but not easy. 

[Lot's of possession (60% + each game), but not doing much with it.]

6 hours ago, denen123 said:

Off topic, I'd like to commend you for this short, yet insightful post. I think giving templates helps a lot.

I am glad you like it. 

[4-4-2 Counter Attack]

10 hours ago, Chip said:

I also changed Hendry to an AP-S as his attributes in vision, passing, composure and decisions and traits (tries killer balls) were getting wasted (in my opinion) as a BBM or CM-A. Is an AP-S still suitable for a counter attacking tactic? Or could this slow down the play at all?

Thanks in advanced for your help

Thanks

IMHO APsu can be used to play counter attacking football. Your setup is playing at higher tempo, the APsu himself should not slow down play. Bear in mind the rest of the setup, including the role/duty/position/movement of other players around him, also play their part.

Just my 2 cents. 

[Assistance Requested: Breaking Down Teams - 4-4-2 Diamond]

12 hours ago, Toronto Blizzard said:

I understand.  I had a split block with the two forwards and the AMC in the original version (I understand that the individual instruction of 'close down more' was how you implemented the split block).  Now you're suggesting add it to the MEZ as well?

For the MEZat, yes. 

[Assistance Requested: Breaking Down Teams - 4-4-2 Diamond]

1 minute ago, Toronto Blizzard said:

Thank you very much, @Starsurfer!  May I ask the reasoning behind removing the roam and split-block pressing?

By enabling be more expressive, IMHO roam from position on F9 becomes unnecessary.

In this setup, IMHO implementing split block pressing helps to keep the defensive shape better than counter-press, especially on positive mentality. The idea is to have only the front players actively pressing the opponent instead of the whole team.

[Lot's of possession (60% + each game), but not doing much with it.]

1 minute ago, takeballpassball said:

I get you! Makes sense really. I have noticed that my midfield usually seem to get dragged all over the place and opposition players can easily pass and dribble through me at times. So maybe this will make me more structured and hard to break down, whilst keeping pressure at the top end of the pitch.

Have fun!