[Could I get some assistance w/ Gegenpressing?]

15 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

It's risky, but I don't think there's any reason you can't gegenpress with a newly promoted team, and there certainly isn't any reason you shouldn't be able to in your third season up. That said, gegenpressing is only one element of the larger picture. You're trying to play a 4231 (fairly offensive, vulnerable to counter), with both wings cutting inside, neither CM defensive, asking too much of at least one of your CBs, and (without knowing all your players) I think a bit too risky in possession (wide, higher tempo, etc). Then on top of all that, you're telling your team to stay on their feet. Your players, formation, tactics, TIs, PIs, etc. all need to mesh, where it seems like you're kinda trying to do too much and sending missed messages. 

I'm hesitant to give too much specific advice without knowing all your players, but...

1) I'd strongly consider 433 (4141 DM Wide) instead of 4231.  If you're deadset on 4231, then maybe go with a winger on one side with a more defensive FB behind them, and a defensive CM (or possibly CAR-S) on the other. 

2) Assuming that's Eric Dier, Tosin Adarabioyo, and Joe Gomez: I'd either drop Dier to the bench, or move him forward into an HB role (if you go 433), and push Gomez inside. I think you're asking way too much of him (Dier) athletically and technically. Not sure how he's developed for you, but Adarabioyo was pretty good for me as a BPD in a high gegenpressing system. Maybe this is unnecessary, but if I'm high pressing, building out of the back, etc., then I want at least one of my CBs set to BPD. 

3) Are you satisfied with your strikers production? CF-A is awfully demanding, and wondering if your striker is talented enough to pull it off, or if he wouldn't be better off in a more focused role. 

4) You're struggling to consistently score goals, but are you creating quality chances? It seems like you're heavy in the scoring options, light on the creative outlets. 

Wow these are fantastic points you've brought up. I'll try and answer in kind. As far as a 4-3-3 that is something I've tinkered with but haven't seem to have mastered, but I'm certainly not dead set on a 4231.

1) I'll explore some 4-3-3 as a secondary until I nail it down, good point! So I should stick a FB(A) (if I have one) behind an IF(S) and use a FB(D) behind the winger?

2) Close! Eric Dier, Tosin Adarabioyo, and Victor Gomez (A temp RB until I can find someone worthwhile... but he's got pace.). On the bench I've got Eric Garcia, while Nathan Wood and a few other up and comers are on loan. I'll be sure to switch a CD to a BPD as I do like to play from the back, though I see some tactics with two BPD's - is this advised?

3) Not at all... my striker combination does not seem to score consistently. I've been advised to put a Pressing Forward up top which makes some sort of sense... though many of my strikers are more familiar with advanced forward.

4) I would say that we are certainly a team of quantity and outshoot our opponents by atleast 25%-50% in total and on target most matches (besides against the big 6). Would changing the attacking midfielder to an advanced playmaker help with that?

[Could I get some assistance w/ Gegenpressing?]

33 minutes ago, giggety said:

I could be mistaken, but playing "wide" in possession will trigger overlaps anyways, so I would remove the overlap TI. 

You have two IFs in the winger strata giving your AM (Slattery) very little room to operate in.

Positive mentality should give a higher tempo, so I would go back to slightly higher tempo to prevent unnecessary loss of possession. 

I would be very tempted to try McSauce as a BWM(S) and Bellingham with a defensive duty. 

I don't like the front 4 to be fair, I would go with a pressing forward on attack and an attacking role for Slattery (AM should work fine) and then both wide players on support, where I would give one of them a straight winger role to try to give the AM some space. 

Just some food for thought.

That is really interesting... I'll remove the overlap TI... never thought of it that way. I had a variation of this where I tried McTominay as a BWM(D) but I'll see what happpens with a BWM(S)... Bellingham as a DLP(D).... I'm a little confused about what exactly he would do in the defensive duty as a playmaker. I always assumed playmakers were support or attack to get the most out of them?

The front four feedback makes total sense. I usually do run a winger along the right side... but would this interfere with my fullback in attack?

[Could I get some assistance w/ Gegenpressing?]

5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Are you sure that a gegenpress is a good idea for a team that has only just been promoted to a highest-level league and probably the strongest one in the world, to begin with?

i mean, it's no surprise for a complete underdog to struggle trying to play such a gung-ho style. So I think you should first reconsider your tactical approach before anything else. 

That is a GREAT question! 

To be honest I do not know. I started at Rochdale with the same tactic seen above (using wingbacks) and it worked wonders. I got promoted, and it did well, but I ended up moving onto Bristol City. I figured that I could bring that same tactic over, bring the players in that may fit it, and gut the rest of them.... and the first season it worked, the second season it was less effective, and the third season.... well it's just started but we're 4 points in 3 games which ain't too shabby a start. I see teams in the prem use this type of formation so I figured it would be a norm....

If you've got recommendations for me I'm all ears. I've attempted to play a defensive tactic (below... with players fitting the roles, this is just a screenshot of it) but I get absolutely battered. 

 

 

[Could I get some assistance w/ Gegenpressing?]

Hey there!

Long-time player, first time forum poster. I've managed to get Bristol City to the Premier League and am now struggling to stay afloat two seasons running. The first season we dominated and ended up 7th place, the next season we dropped to 15th, barely making the cut, and now the start of this season does not look particularly promising and I am in need of some help.

I'll try and be concise: my tactic works, partially. Below you'll see my take on the "Gegenpress" tactic. I'm struggling to get goals in bunches and when I do get goals, there is usually a goal in the 90th minute on the other end of things to deny my club a win. I'm wondering how I can combat this and where the breakdown is in this tactic.

Any improvements or suggestions would be appreciated.

Important to note: This tactic was altered from my original, where wingbacks would be used on both sides.