[Will my team be able to pass their way to world domination?]

4 hours ago, Djuicer said:

I think @Crazy_Ivan has a legit point. Will explain further down, however the basics seems great, like mine 

Yes, I agree. spacing is very important to get fast and desicive passing. If there is not enough space, there will be though to create slick passes with decent tempo. You want every pass to either move your team into a better position and/or opportunity OR move the opponent vertically or laterally around the pitch. For that you will need said spacing. IE your team will need to have width, but also depth. Width you get from the wing backs but depth is scarce.  I think a first step would be to either change one mezalla or move one into attack. Secondly What's the PPM's for the attacking midfielders and the central ones? its quite important for the movement too.

In the clip you linked the passing is there but its quite short and you can see the points im trying to make in which players are running into the box. They are all attacking in relatively the same area, lacking both "width" and "depth". Which makes it harder to break down the opponents. The players trait can help with this, but also PI's. Moves into channels can be helpful, but mezzalas and SS + PFa will already have it. Do you have some players that comes deep to collect too? 
EDIT: This shows what Im trying to say. Width and decent depth.


EDIT2: Current TI's

This leads to possession but also sometimes the longer pass. This GIF is actually an overhit pass but the result becomes desirable anyway. It intended for the left striker but it is too long and gets to the right striker instead.

 

The point you make on depth is legitimate, and I think is what I am struggling to achieve. With defences staying low and narrow there is very little space to attack so all my players end up around the box in similar spots. CWB on the flanks near the byline and everyone else in front of the goal.

I have a couple of players with Comes Deep to Get the Ball (one MEZZ and one AM/AP/SS). I have noticed that a lot of my players have Runs Forward Whenever Possible, Tries Killer Ball Often, Plays One-Twos, Knocks Ball Past Opponent, so perhaps the team is more suited for a fast counter attack play rather then possession football. I'll tinker a bit more with the formation and the PIs to see if I manage to get somebody to provide depth and by coming lower and perhaps arriving late near the box.

I still think that most of the lack of depth is caused by how narrow/tight the opposition decides to play, so perhaps I need to increase the tempo to catch players outside of position and use the space they would leave.

[Will my team be able to pass their way to world domination?]

2 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

That heat map doesn't look good at all to me, if I am trying to create a possession tactic I wan't it to look something like this. Whether anything resembling this can be achieved with that formation I am unsure.

 

Does it not? The only problem I see is with the two behind the strikers too close to each other. If I could get them to stay farther apart, and perhaps one of them to drop a little bit then I think I would be close to what I want. Essentially 7 bodies in & around the opponent's box, having the ball and not losing it, passing it around until they can break through. When I think about Pep's Barcelona this is how I would summarise them. I have seen plenty of games where they were able to just keep the ball 25-30m from the opponent's goal for long stretches of the game and that is what I am trying to achieve. In that respect the heatmap seems close enough, it's the end product which is lacking and I am trying to address.

[Will my team be able to pass their way to world domination?]

2 hours ago, Djuicer said:

Feel free to post here, its good with discussions. I will try this next, the Xmas tree was maybe not a possession tactic as we see them today. Ancelottis use of playmakers was very intresting though, sometimes using four at given times. Width will be the thoughest to get in this formation unless you maybe thinker with the base of the tree or change up some roles. Roughly the Xmas-tree for me is reliant on width from the fullbacks. They are (in fm) the key to this system. The CWB is probably the best if you have players for it, however if you don't the regular WB is good to, crosses more and often keeps it a tad simpler. In FM to look like Ancelottis Milan I think it is similar to this:
P/AF (Schev/Inzh)
AP/TRQ (Rivaldo/Rui Costa/Seedorf) SS/AM (Kaka)
BBM( Seedorf) DLP (Pirlo) BWM (Gattuso)
CWB-CD-CD-CWB
GK

Then for possession you might want to change some things up
adding a SK, one or two BPDs, switch bbm to mez and maybe the bwm for a carrilero. Or one of bwm or bbm to the wider option.

The scoring problem is quite common with good teams. The op. sits deep which makes it hard to find space and score. After the first goal they have to switch up and that creates more space for you to attack. Making the goals post the first one often much easier to get.


I have also considered two variants of the xmas tree. First is the regular and the other is the one Ancelotti also used in Milan 4-3-1-2 with Scheva and Inzaghi up top. This could also be changed to creator/scorer and or big man/little man (for you team).

 

First of all, thank you for the feedback and for letting me share my 2 cents here. Unfortunately most of the points you raised were something I already tinkered with quite a lot but I still don't seem to be able to crack it. Don't get me wrong, it kind of works, just not as well as I hoped. Last season I won CL (0-0 and then penalties) with this module, playing with a CAU mentality for most of the match as an underdog vs. Manchester United. I lost Serie A by 6 points and also lost Coppa Italia on penalties (also 0-0).

This is before I even stumbled on this fantastic thread of yours. As you can see, many things are similar to what we just discussed. Great minds think alike?

Moving on, and trying to perfect this, I have read of your approach in this thread and tinkered a bit with the formation. This is what I am using now. (Pellegrini, Kubo and Finn and Gasparini are additions from this season)

I present here to you a case study of my last game (H) vs Sassuolo (mid-table) which might be helpful to understand the issues with this setup and hopefully aid the discussion.

The game was won with no goals from open play. Scored immediately on a corner. Conceded after the break also on a corner. Moved to VA mentality right after and managed to obtain a penalty (foul on Tomiyasu cutting in the box from the byline) 15mins before the end of the game.

The ability of my players and the stats seem to be telling me that it should've been an easier game to win. We have great familiarity with this tactic and morale is Extremely Good on average.

This is the heatmap with avg.pos with ball for the first half. The two behind the striker are very very close. Too close for my liking. Good width and occupation of spaces otherwise.

A bit higher up the pitch after changing mentality for the full game avg.pos and heatmap.

It seems crazy to me that we are not able to score more goals, and not from open play, when at times we are able to produce free flowing football like this one in the example below. Around 30th minute of this game while winning 1-0, on POS mentality.

Any thoughts?

[Will my team be able to pass their way to world domination?]

Great inspiring content! Well done mate!

 

_

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread and I can open a separate one if you think it is best.

_

 

I am trying to achieve similar results (in terms of possession and overall play) but with two AMs behind the striker, rather than the two IWs. I have great depth there (mostly regens, but also Havertz, Kubo, L. Pellegrini, Nuno Santos) and not much on the wings.

Do you think this is achievable? Perhaps your next experiment? Think Seedorf/Kaka in Ancelotti's "Christmas Tree" formation.

I seem to be able to retain possession quite well but struggle with scoring. Once I score the first goal it gets easier, as a losing team doesn't tend to park the bus and defend so narrowly after conceding, but at times I only manage to break them down at the 89th minute or so (or not at all) and it makes for some pretty stressful moments. I noticed that the two AM's stay pretty close to each other, even with PI to get forward and wide. I have tried setting the overall attacking width to much wider but doesn't seem to make a great difference. Perhaps with the current ME this is too much to ask?

 

 

This is the heatmap with avg. pos. from the last game, won 0-1(89th) away against a bottom of the league team. I think in creating the triangles at the foundation of JdP two AM's that stay a little wide shouldn't be too far from the position occupied by two IW's, but here they almost sit one on top of the other. I would ideally want them to be just a little wider than the midfielders behind them, but still not as wide as the wingbacks.

My optimal starting 11 looks something like this:

 

S. Esposito (PFa)

REGEN (AMs) - Havertz (AMs)

L. Pellegrini (MEZs) - Kubo (RPMs)

D. Rice (DMs)

A. Davies (CWBs) - Upamecano (BPDd) - De Ligt (BPDd) - Tomiyasu (CWBs)

Szczesny (SKs)

 

The PIs on the AMs are: Get Further Forward, Stay Wider, Roam From Position

Just to give you a complete picture, these below are the regens I have available for the last third of the pitch.

I'd love to perfect the pairing Finn+Florez. 200cm x 101kg hand in hand with 162cm x 65kg. It would be like David and Goliath. At the moment whichever pair plays as AM's is very often the lowest rating in the team. When the same player is used as MEZ or RPM behind, their performances and ratings improve massively.

I would really appreciate your input on this. Thanks mate!