MessiMessiMessi
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Posts posted by MessiMessiMessi
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vor 23 Minuten schrieb khodder:
It may be something to do with the familiarity of the tactic, morale and club atmosphere also plays a massive part in FM.
It's not all about tactics anymore.
Vs Newcastle it just looks like you needed your finishers to be a bit more clinical
Vs Leeds it looks like they got the best from their finishers.
Overall in both it looks like the tactic has performed as intended - dominate possession, dominate the game, but the chance haven't fallen for your team as much as you would have liked and your finishing has been a bit wayward.
I can understand this and thank you for your ideas, but there is a very big difference between going invincible with Arsenal with 125 GD and what I've experienced here losing 6:0 to Leeds. There must be something I am doing wrong, that I didn't find out reading the OP and the comments. Had a full pre-season only learning this tactic. I played the Leeds game about 10 times trying to understand it better and lost it every time, 4:1, 3:0, 3:1 all included and always losing on xG by a good margin.
I did another test with ManCity since they have better technical players. At Anfield had 1125 passes or something in that range - amazing I'd say, never seen this before against an opponent with similar strength of players. But... lost 5-0 with 4.1 vs. 0.11 xG. What are the changes the OP makes in these games? Because the base tactic is not getting anywhere close to the results he obviously got.
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Read this thread with great excitement and joy, tried it out instantly with an Arsenal save, and this is the result. I extracted the PIs and not existent OIs as given by the OP. Anyone can help me what I can do to get better results?
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vor 9 Minuten schrieb Cleon:
Imagine thinking people can just magic up content when they want without planning, playing and writing it. I also never shared a tactic, it's not what I do but you carry on.
Yep, all you do is big announcements, insulting and trying to lecture people and acting like people are too stupid to understand football and the game football manager. And for some reason moderators don't care about it. Big announcements no show should be an immediate ban.
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vor einer Stunde schrieb Cleon:
It's all I use. Not sure why people say it isn't a long-term strategy and isn't stable enough for success long-term. I guess it says more about their lack of understanding in how the game works more than anything else. Or they're listening/watching/reading stuff by others who don't know what they're on about. But 100% it is viable to play like this and not be dominated by better sides, then as you improve and become better yourself, you can still be as dominant yourself. I don't want to hijack the thread but I'll gladly show people who say you can't play this way long-term evidence, stats etc that disapproves everything they say.
Just wow. You have been all talk and share nothing for months now. And you come in and insult basically the entire community? Everybody else would be sanctioned for that. The tactic you felt so gracious to share with us idiots who don't understand the game had nothing to do with what 99% of people think about in terms of low lines and whatnot anyway.
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Why Cautious? You want quick transition not cautious mentality. Why AP? They'll look for him not the Target Man.
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Right well lets agree to disagree on this then because while the ME isn't perfect and does have its limitations I find it also is neither unenjoyable or unplayable and in my experience I find the exact oposite to what you're saying in my games
Play with FB-D please and then tell me how much you enjoy it.
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So you want to build up in a 3-1 shape but then also want one of the 3 to be more aggressive? Surely the idea of the 3 is to stay back and be passive in attack providing options for rotation of play and recycling of possession through the defence and cover for counter attacks as opposed to being aggressive and getting forward?
I am saying because he is passive the ME calculates it that the tactic is ****, and you get played through like nothing. I've done all this, when you switch to FB-D suddenly the opponent gets highlights every few seconds.
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Ahh well you didn't say that to begin with, I agree with @crusadertsar then about the FB/WBd with hold position then or even an IWBd will work
I disagree with that a lot, IWB will eventually slot in pretty much above the middle CB, FB-d is passive af (even though when it can look okay the me calculates it so it gives you horrible results), and does weird runs pretty much along the line even if you have him on narrow. I am through all this.
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I'd say its pretty possible without the HBd role personally
Thanks to the mods for deleting my post but leaving crusaderstars nonsense up. Lol you play 3CB and 1 DM of course it's possible, I was talking while defending in back four ofc.
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Has anybody had any luck with FM22? I’ve been using a DLP(D) and a CM(D) which sometimes forms the 3-1 shape but it’s more of a box to be honest.
It doesn't work in FM without halfback because FM developers are apparently too lazy to add a fullback role that plays like a third centre back in build-up, even though in real-life the best possession managers Pep and Nagelsmann use that for years now.
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16 hours ago, glengarry224 said:
Any update? I'm interested in this experiment. I'd have tried it myself but got too busy with work and family stuff...
honestly I got very bored with this and atm I'm playing a more tryhard save again, maybe if I'm bored again I'll finish this season but you could see that even without any midfielder capable of defending and having a million games due to Europa League I won the league and now with Ndidi in the squad I was walking the league. Only question is if you can win the CL which for me I'd doubt since I'm not very good in these knockout ties but with the right luck it's probably feasible when playing with Messi and Ndidi Double DM.
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23 hours ago, glengarry224 said:
Very cool! Thanks for doing this. You're getting good results even if not the CL, which is hit-and-miss with many good clubs.
Ndidi is a beast. The combo of him screening the defense, with Schmeichel in goal, is Leicester's bread-and-butter.
Have you found that you have enough players attacking the box off-the-ball? If not, could you switch one of the wingers to IF? Maybe use an overlap or two versus narrow defenses?
Okay I was pretty stupid not to talk about tactics but I've tweaked it a fair bit, for example in the beginning I was set on lower tempo, now I've gone for Shorter Passing and Normal or Higher Tempo and it didn't hurt Messi a lot. I have put an overload on the left side with CM Support, WB Auto and the IW with Dembele as W Attack on the right to release, Against the good teams I mostly play 4-2DM-1-3 with Ndidi as simple DM Defend. The original tactics maybe could be just fine with Ndidi in midfield instead of Pjanic, Frenkie, Busquets as well. In the new save I've also played Roberto as CM and Dest as RB more. I've tried playing Ndidi as simple CM Defend in the normal 4-3-3 as well but 2DM just seems to work better.
In the first save in the CL the issue really was losing against Atalanta twice, who of course punched through our middle with Messi, De Jong, Pjanic with their 3-4-1-2. I've had an easy group and got Leipzig in R16 this time but with new tactics and Ndidi I feel like I'm equipped for the better teams as well.
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So in case someone is interested in seeing the results especially after the other opinions from the users on here. I finished the first season in this save, unfortunately I didn't notice that I had loaded a transfer update that for the other top leagues already added the teams of 21/22 to 20/21 season so I won't continue this save.
We were able to win the title, unfortunately lost the EL final to an Odegaard freekick, though Messi didn't even play until the last 20 minutes due to small injuries and crazy fixture congestion.
I started a new save now and played until the end of December but this time I sold Braithwaite and Umtiti so I could get the guy from Leicester called Ndidi, so someone who's actually willing to tackle and run at people.
Results are a lot better now especially against better teams with someone covering for Leo Messi. If there is some interest I'll continue to play, seeing if I can win the CL with Messi as REGISTA and what will happen when he loses his physical attributes like ACC and PACE if he'll still be able to play crazy amount of Key Passes.
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On 04/07/2021 at 19:18, ThunderCelt said:
Apologies for reviving this request for help. I'm managing in Scotland in the mid 2030s, having taken over Ross County who are a top six side following a wealthy takeover. My issue is I'm not scoring enough, goals for and against are both low, and what I can't work out is how to up the goals for while staying tightish at the back. Here's my usual current setup:
AF(a)
IF(s) AM(s) W(a)
DLP(d) BBM(s)
FB(a) CD(d) CD(d) FB(s)
GK(d)
Mentality: Balanced
In possession: Wide
Transition: Counter
Out of posession: Lower LoE, more urgent pressing.
I suspect I'm too Cconservative, but everything I've tried fails to convert draws into wins, and seems more likely to turn those draws into defeats. I've tried upping the mentality, the LoE/DL, tweaking player roles and duties, and improving the squad. Is there anything else I can try, or anything I've already tried that is worth giving another go, or a combination, etc to make the football more exciting, and for the team to actually look likely to break a deadlock?
Why top 6 team playing Lower LOE? Why Balanced? Why Countering into deep set blocks? Why AF when you have no space? You'll need to adjust based on opponent but don't play so defensive against weaker teams. I like this better than playing 6 attack duties and being surprised but at some point you can't expect to play with a good team a tactic reliant on space. This is seen in real life as well.
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Zealand is the worst, look at his streams he's shouting and praying for 5 minutes at a video game. Unbearable. BustTheNet is the goat, i don't know if English isn't your first language or why you don't understand him?
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Please show your progress here, first year is easy with a well designed quick transition system but second year teams will start playing deeper and you need to find solutions on the ball while your players aren't really that great yet.
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1 hour ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:
Just have to remember that Pirlo was able to do what Pirlo did at AC Milan because he had Ambrosini and Gattuso to boss the midfield area.
Yes you are right the issue is Barca have nobody like this Frenkie is somewhat okay due to being a good allrounder but no specialist or truly aggressive strong player and of course I don't have money to go buy Fabinho or Kante or at least some Bentancur or Sander Berge. I will see if I can even get this kind of money until Messi is retired, maybe try get Neymar or Kane then and play this role.
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Why do you want to play 3-4-2-1 with Poland? Keeping your best player on support? No holding midfielder? Playing on possession in Division A Nations League with Poland doesn't seem reliable as well.
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2 hours ago, WhyMe said:
If you want your regista pinging 60 yard balls ahead of runners then you need to take play out of defence off and give him more direct passes so he can make his own mind up on when he does and does not play a longer ball. Keep everyone else on shorter passing and suddenly you have a regista who has the freedom to do what you want without other players losing possession around him. You will need to set your keepers distribution instructions to CB/FB if you do this (or playmaker but that is more of a gamble possession wise). The CBs/FBs should then pass to your Reg most of the time as he is your playmaker
Agree with what others said about needing a holding midfielder and if you use the system suggested by NotSoSpecial one I'd add the PI to do CM-d to stay wider, this provides better cover to the flank for the FB-a and gives the reg a little more space to operate while providing a short passing option for ball re-cycling when needed (the IWB-s proves the same on the other side.
Right flank wise your IWB-s should provide sufficient defensive cover as long as he is good defensively though you may need to drop him to IWB-d in some games.
An alternative set up to that flank is a CM-a and W-a which is great for creating overloads in the box on that side (if you have the players for the roles), the only problem with this is with a non-defensive DM you might get into trouble defensively with this at which point the IWB-d might be a winner.
Defensively your LOE and DL are likely causing you trouble in a lot of games, setting your LOE a notch higher than your DL means potential problems with vertical compactness (a favourite of ED) so I would suggest keeping both either the same (i.e. both on higher) or having DL one notch higher than LOE (higher DL, normal LOE). You might need to change that depending on your opponent and against vastly inferior opposition that are camping sometimes a standard DL and higher LOE can work but it is very situational.
Either way good luck with it, Messi as a reg later in his career sounds like a good giggle!
Thank you for your points, I don't really want Messi to just hoof long balls it's just more like the Pirlo role the Regista is based on, it's just a thing I said to explain why I do this and that there is real life examples of players like Rooney playing a role like this at old age.
I can try High/High defensive lines/LOE, but I like this combination a lot and it somewhat feels mandatory with the Regista especially with Messi I don't want to fall back into the defensive formation so much, that's why I was going for extreme low passes and tempo at first but it didn't work obviously. Going away from these artificially extreme instructions and some of your suggestions the tactic seems good enough to beat most mid-table and worse LaLiga teams, I'm just struggling against the bigger teams going out of the CL losing to Atalanta twice, now with the 2DM system I won the Supercopa against Real at least, but for it to really work consistently I probably need a type like Kante or Fabinho as all the guys like Frenkie, Pedri, Ilaix, Pjanic aren't good physical defenders as well.
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I've just seen I've Pjanic on CM Attack, I can use him as MEZ as well in this 4-3-3 system but I have the IW on Stay Wider anyway and that's what I more like with the IWB than just the Winger I have to say.
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Hello guys thank you for all the help unforunately I was very stupid with the very short passing and all that as I artificially wanted to have about 70% possession but that's not happening first season I guess.
I don't understand why people say it's unrealistic, Messi already plays passes like a Regista for Argentina right now when dropping from the false 9 and I think everybody know the videos of very old Beckham or Rooney playing 60m passes perfectly into a runner. In the game he has perfect attributes for the role as well, only that he is useless against the ball, but I was punished with this against Real, Liverpool, Atalanta straight away, so that's good from the game I'd say.
I switched to this tactic for most games now, against teams like Bilbao, Villarreal or away games I'll put either Sergi or Frenkie on defend as well.
For teams against better teams like Real or next season in Champions League I've created this with double DM system, but Idk since this is very defensive but otherwise you'll get totally run over with Messi on the 6.
Here you can see his stats, he is struggling against good teams unfortunately as I said.
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I want to play Leo Messi in the role Regista but it doesn't work no matter what I do even though he has PERFECT attributes for being a Regista, I get DESTROYED in EL Clasico and by Liverpool. Even lose to bad team like Betis and not with 2 shots 2 goals they have more xG than we. I want this to work badly but it doesn't please help.
I used this tactic first but I've never seen a tactic be so bad with MESSI and BARCA can't score any goals with this so switched to OP TACTIC with roles like IWB and MEZ so there's a million players in the middle blocking other guys from MESSI the Goat so he can do his work but still nothing works, I create no chances and concede stupid goals to bad teams and get destroyed by good teams. You can say it's too extreme but you need to play with this low tempo so the REGISTA can even do his work and not be useless I know I can get 100 points with normal 4231 with Barca so don't say that please.
Okay yes I can remove distribute to playmaker but I never used this in one of these games anyway but otherwise this tactic should not be this bad you know.
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Trusting the Process - Collectivism, Rotations & Control
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
I can understand this if you load up a game with a League 2 team and then try the exact same with bad players. But if you use the same Arsenal team at the start with the same players with the exact same attributes you should see something that is at least somewhat resembling the results and football shown here imo. Maybe you can explain what else you think there is in the game to do? If there are changes that need to be made they are not mentioned here and that is all me and others asking for being helped with.