lomekian

THe one I posted just above yours is as close as I've managed to get. And its incredibly effective too

Essentially asymmetric 41131 Lomekian meets Arteta23-24 ALT.fmf

Havertz got 30 in 33 s1 playing as a DLF(A). Was ineffective for me as CF or F9

Re McTominay - I bought him as Arsenal winter season 1 loan with £15m obligation - play him as CM (A) behind Odegaard and ahead of Rice - expected him to be a useful game state sub. He scored 15 in 15 in that role Feb onwards (including the winner in a MOTM Champions League performance) and so far is 9 in 9 in 24/25. Requires the rest of the team to be good enough to live with being average in the ball, but stupidly effective in that role.

No - just transfer deals set to happenon the dates they did in real life + injuries etc.

Yeah, but more wide reaching than this - just all up to date stuff

23/24. So not much starting cash, hence the bargain hunting and bringing people in just to flog later. Looking forward to see what I can do in the summer! Still not full summer yet Just agreed a deal for Ruben Neves on a season long loan paying 80% of his wages (still 350k a week!) with an 8.75m future fee if we win the league - will replace Partey immediately and then ultimately be my Jorginho. Similar deal concluded for Thomas Lemar who arrived in January with a 6m future fee clause, essentially replacing Fabio Vieira. Never hit his potential, but a player who is both very professional and can be competent or better in 5 positions is no bad thing. Got Lunin coming in from Madrid on a free to replace the presumably departing Ramsdale. Also got Ziolinksi coming in on a free to hopefully be Odegaard cover. And a few kids with some promise on bosmans. Also brought in some higher rated kids for the u21s/loan to develop but from a stronger base - Jobe Bellingham from Sunderland for 11.5m, Cameron Humphries from Ipswich for £7.25m, El Chadaille Bitshiabu (easy for you to say!) from Leipzig for £6.25m, Ronnie Edwards for 2.5m, Hugo and Nuno Felix for a combined £3.5m from benfica B, Wisdom Amey from Bologna for £1.2m, For the freebies I can't sell, if ther is a lack of interest I am offering them in exchange deals for more developed promising youngsters - we'll see if that gets anywhere beyond the below... So far got lined up Skelly Alvaro from Lyon (probably never be good enough but the hilarity of a 6"8 midfielder to add to my set pieces threat vs weaker opponents is fun!) for 1.5m + Junior Tavares (free in Jan) Also swapped listed Jesus Vazquez from Valencia for Nigel Robertha (free in Jan) and Rafael Luis from Benfica for Stefano Sensi (talented but injury prone freebie, who did score in the FA Cup Final) and Isaak Toure (6"8 left footed centre back from Lorient for £2.5m + Josef Martinez, who is actually not terrible, but not good enough for me. Bar Neves the most exciting bids I've got on the way are for an unhappy Kenan Yildiz, and unsettled Rico Lewis, a low value Ivan Fresneda and Guillaime Restes from relegated Toulouse. Real Madrid don;t want to Sell Tchouameni, who I probably don't really need anyway. Looking for 2 more oven ready players with room to grow at wing and at striker, but my options may be limited if I can't sell the likes of Nelson etc. Trying for Yamal as he's up for it, but Barca understandably not keen to sell. Up top we want a combo of physicality and speed...eyeing Sesko (Osihmen is not remotely gettable now), but if the worst comes to it, I can always get a stop gap like Tammy Abraham listed for 8m or the very raw but intirguing Emanuel Emegha who my scouts reckon I can get for 20m ish. The real dream is my immediate priority. Mbappe has been set to leave PSG, but becuase his next club isn't announced IRL (though we all know) he seems to be set to leave with RM and Saudi both set to go for him...currently showing as Wnt, but no bids yet. Trying to thin the squad to free up wages so I can throw my hat into the ring - may have to adjust wages vs budget to even be able to bid!

Having abandoned the game I started in January to start a new one with the data update, but with the same principles. DISCLAIMER: Using some DB add-ons that 1) add real life youth players to the game (from some FM websites), so have Obi-Martin etc 2) Add all missing Arsenal u16s myself (info taken from various websites, but just editing the ones duplicated by the above DB adds to resist the temptation to make them all amazing!) 3) Added BIG points deduction to Man City (the cheating bastards). Not enough to guarantee relegation, but enough to make it possible. I thought this a way to hedge bets re real life sanctions when they come 4) Remove Brexit. Yes I am still bitter. 5) Allow me to keep Arteta as Assistant Manager 6) Adds an Arsenal B team in the 7th tier No First teamers or existing youth edited by me or any mods. This time I actually finished a season! SEASON 1 Transfers Obviously Arsenal are skint to begin with, so first thing is to grab some filler non-squad guys on Frees. Some old blokes for mentoring usage, who don;t mind the old Scott Carson role. Others who rate themselves and will ask to leave when I don't include them in my squad, so can be flogged ahead of first transfer deadline to raise some funds. And pure profit for FFP! Trial them first then hold off to get them on lower wages than day 1. Those that can't be sold immediately were kept for weaker teams in the cups. What's great is if you player the real world option some are free in July and some become free later on. And teams have a habit of releasing players with expering contracts they don't want. Made over £40m from selling players acquired in this way. Some great old blokes to tutor available for free Marco Motta, Gael Clichy (yay!), Kazuyoshi Miura (when he got released), Fumio Ando I also hoovered up lots of kids with my non brexit status - getting some on youth contracts and buying others for peanuts. Randomly City, Liverpool and others sometimes have good prospects available very cheaply. The best though are Benfica (most of their kids have resolute, determined or professional personalities and Portugal is cheaper for transfers), Real Madrid (several players with good reps in real life youth competitions available for next to nothing or with expiring contracts), Sporting (2 or 3 very promising kids that are far too cheap) and after Xmas Barcelona (lots of their younger players seem to have cheap relause clauses - picked up Pau Cubarsi for £2.3m!). Apart from that Austria and Switzerland are great for super duper cheap youth prospects, and of course with enough leagues loaded West Africa and Mexico. Bigger signings: Managed to get in Pepe (the old CB) from Porto for £2.4m as both up to snuff still for the first team, especially in Europe and an excellent tutor. Tbh this was off the back of his performance against us in real life. Added Oscar Perea from Atletico Nacional for what could eventually rise to £3.5m, but largely deferred. Immediately recouped a decent chunk loaning him to Lens. Vitik from Sparta Prague came in to be the next layer at CB, and Shalke listed Assan Ouedraogo for £8m which I couldn;t say no to. Thinking ahead for an Eleney replacement I bought Gerrard Yepes from Sampdoria for what could rise to £4.6m to get him ahead of Spurs, but ended up loaning him to Coventry for a fee - he's been great for them and is now worth £35m - as he went out I pounced on Aleksander Pavlovic from Bayern who despite being improved is still dirt cheap - £3.2m - Edned up loaning him out to France for a decent loan fee as 2 more DMs came in after Partey's sale. Jose Gregara from Espanol was listed so cost me £2.3m and brings decent passing and size as an emergency option. Was amazing in the cup games, but ultimately will fill the Elneny role. He was usurped by a thought experiment I wanted to try - when Partey and Vieira went out for fees I couldn't refuse, I wanted to try Rice more in the 6 role to see if the team worked as well, so I could decide which direction to go at the end of the season, so I went looking for a player who could do a job at 6 or attacking 8 but was more of a box crashing 8 who could dovetail with Havertz. As it happened a player that is much derided but I feel I could do well in that role after seeing his internation displays was listed for £15m. So in came Scott Mctominay, a player whose in game attributes always intrigued me, with good personality and of course some goalscoring form in real life. OUT: In addition to loan farming for fees (especially to scandinavia in November), some of which led to loan fees greater than the prospects purchase prices, and the selling of never going to be good enough freebies from above, I also raised another 5m + 50% sell on clauses for varous never going to make it original youth players like Jack Henry Francis etc. The big one was ahead of intended schedule - Partey had been in decent form, but no better than Jorginho, and I wanted to try Rice back at DM to inform what End of season transfers to target, so when Inter came in for him I negotiated them to £44.5m rising to £53m. On top of that, Fabio Vieira was the subject of a bid of £43m rising to £51m from Newcastle, and hadn't seen a lot of game time as ESR had outshone him in the few looks they had. I suspect he'll do well for them but he might be another Hugo Viana. With £87m rising to £104m coming in on top of the £40m from selling my opportunistic freebies, the coffers are healthy even without more sales and prize money. So how did it all go? Well. Very very well. One thing I love about recent FMs is how the ever more effective tactical evolutions Arteta introduces in real life are similarly increasingly effective in game. So Kai at DLF (A) creating a dual 10 system with Odegaard as AP(S) in the AM slot, with Rice and Later McTominay in the attacking 8 slot was amazing, especially when Zinny was on form as an inverted full-back providing that extra creativity. Not only did we go the season unbeaten, we had a ridiculous record of 35 wins and 3 draws. We scored 177 goals in the league alone. When you get on a roll you can really stuff teams on this FM...some of the scorelines were ridiculous. Opening day beat Everton 10-0. 2 weeks later beat Burnley 9-0. Won 8-0 twice against 5th place Newcastle. Beat Fulham 6-0, Sheffield United 8-2, Brighton 6-1, Won 8-1 at Villa Park, 6-0 at home to Bournemouth, and 7-0 vs Wolves before beating WHU 11-0 at home. Just bizarre. Highest score against any of the relegated sides was 5-0. We won every cup (very much helped by some of the jammiest draws in cup competition you could hope to see - The Champions League saw me face Feyenoord, FC Kobenhavn & Union Berlin in the group stage, an injury battered Leipzig, a frankly even crapper Feyenoord again, a flaky PSG and a bizarrely title winning AC Milan (who left Rafael Leao on the bench?!) as my opponents. If only we could get that in real life! That said, Trossard, Nketiah and Mctominay is a pretty unlikely scorers line up for the ECL title. The Fa Cup gave me Burnley, Ipswich and Everton in the QF, SF and Final, allowing me to rest my stars. The League Cup required pens to beat Liverpool and Bournemouth, but the other ties were all lower league opposition. On individual players, Raya got the golden glove. Kai finished the season with 40 goals in the league. Odegaard got 22 Assists. McTominay was a revelation - he scored 15 in 15 in the league, averaging 7.94 and was MOTM in his only European tie, the ECL final where he got a goal and assists. An absolute example of finding the right role for a player. Naturally this has made me question my summer transfer plans! The next step to keep it interesting is to blood the kids. Nwaneri, MLS, BNC, Chido Obi the obvious candidates. Might lean into a Brexit squad further by setting myself rules about HG or British players. Already have Archie Gray from Leeds, Jobe Bellingham, Samuel Illing lined up for the summer

Always do it with some freebies first season to some degree but FFP has also got me thinking. Some of my cheap starlets will help sigificantly even if they never get a sniff of first team action. Got some chap called alexander Murillo from RB Salzburg that my scouts liked for a grand total of £550! Going to be hard to make a loss on that one!

Have attached my tactic - when I can work out how to post screenshots I'll share one. Have also attached my 3 option setpiece routine collection -largely based on what we've done this season. The tactic is my interpretation of what Arteta is TRYING to do IRL. All I can say is, if you play enough pre-season games to get it up to speed and your players fit, it REALLY works with this squad. I have noticed in this years FM that if you get on a roll, both within individual games and in general, you can really rack up some scores. Choice results so far: 7-0 away vs Brighton on the opening day (off only 2.5 xG - the opposite of real life) 5-1 at home to Liverpool 5-0 away at Forest (with Hulk scoring off the bench on his debut) 9-1 at home to West Ham (who were biazarrely awful and easy to create against.) 7-0 at home to Spurs (the AI making some seriously odd selection choices at FB and in midfield, and conceded 6.81xG with their first 11). And then the best ever result I've had in FM on any version - 11-0 vs Chelsea. However HUGE mitigating circumstances in this one as they had a red card (Reece James) and FOUR players injured (Thiago Silva, Sterling, Jackson & Chilwell), ending the match with 8 men, and that was after coming into the match with a huge injury crisis, missing Enzo, Gallagher, Disasi & Mudryk, Palmer & Mudryk on top of Fofana, Nkunku & Lavia already out. They've turned their form around since then and are 6th. I always find it interesting how players form varies from save to save. On my prior test run to develop a tactic, Saka was underwhelming, but in this one he is like Messi - 14 goals an 10 assists in 13 games - despite being used in exactly the same way with the same teammates. Havertz has been godly in this one too, having been so so in my test, whereas in that Zinchenko, Jesus and Nelson had been the leading lights. It is of course unsustainable that this form will last, particularly when the hard CL fixtures and other cup games kick in, but hoping to build up a nice points lead. Lomekian meets Arteta23-24.fmf mat Routine Collection.fmf

Finally succumbed to FM24 and after a couple of test saves until Nov seas 1 to work out my tactic, get my head around the set pieces etc, have started my first real save. DISCLAIMER: Using some DB add-ons that 1) add real life youth players to the game (from some FM website), so have Obi-Martin etc 2) Add all Arsenal u16s myself (info taken from various websites) 3) Added BIG points deduction to Man City (the cheating bastards). Not enough to guarantee relegation, but enough to make it possible. I thought this a way to hedge bets re real life sanctions when they come 4) Remove Brexit. Yes I am still bitter. 5) Cancelled Tierney's loan (just read Sociadad won't buy him IRL so figured why not keep him in FM). No First teamers or existing youth edited by me. SEASON 1 Starting Transfers Obviously Arsenal are skint to begin with, so first thing is to grab some filler non-squad guys on Frees. Some old blokes for mentoring usage, who don;t mind the old Scott Carson role. Others who rate themselves and will ask to leave when I don't include them in my squad, so can be flogged ahead of first transfer deadline to raise some funds. And pure profit for FFP! Trial them first then hold off to get them on lower wages than day 1. Old blokes: Daniel Caliguri, Oumar Niasse, Marco Motta, Gael Clichy (yay!), Diego Lopez, Adrian Silva, Kazuyoshi Miura Frees to sell: almamy Toure, Kevin Malcuit, Jose Compana (will sell when fit in Jan-ish), Tanguay Coulibaly, Anwar El Ghazi, Lingaard, Jose Sumonovic, Peter Etebo, Jean-Paul Boetius, Nemanja Jovic, Suleyman Doumbia. Used same logic to pick up Alejandro Zendejas and Alvaro Fidalgo for a combined £528,000 from Club America in Mexico - Allowed me to be prepped for any opportunistic sales in attackers outside the first 11, and neither complain about missing out on squad registration. Both actual good performers too. Managed to get in 7.5m for Coulibaly, 8m for Toure & 10m for El Ghazi, and used Boetius in a p/ex signing later. The rest will be given league/fa cup minutes to maintain their value if the draws are kind, and to protect the real first teamers. Then it was loaning out guys - targetted scandi teams as they always seem to be willing to make big loan payments in the summer until their seasons end in late NOV, but even some championship teams seem to be willing to throw some decent cash about. Raised a 3-4 million in loan fees alone, including for the younger freebies I brought in. This income (and the use of deferred payments) allowed for some signings. Nearly all CHEAP prospects. Barco at £6.25m the most expensive - so effectively got him for having to train Coulibaliy for 2 months. Hoovered up some SUPER CHEAP prospects based on the Guardian's next Gen lists for the last 2 seasons and other youth players I had heard of who turned out super cheap. These included GK Nathanial Nwosu, AM Prince Ndlovu, Kebir Ali Canpolat, Marcus Bering, Hunor Nemeth all without fees. Lots of Africans can come for next to nothing (maybe this is because I removed Brexit?), but also lots of other randoms from the next gen lists or from English teams (and Real Madrid youth too) can be picked up for next to nothing, which when you defer payments becomes almost nothing. Managed to bring in about 35 prospects for under 1M budget total! It helps I am a football spanner and love scouting! Then as per, scouted Benfica & Sporting youth set ups, becasue they tend to have great mentals and personalities. Brought in Joao Veloso at the start for what will become £4.2m (and got 1m back in loan fees!). A few others I will try to pick up in January or the summer. Only first team squad signings were the aforementioned Barco, HULK for £4.5m (I'd always wanted to sign him), he provides cover up front and for Saka, and his PPMs are fun, Papetti from Brescia for £1.8m just to give 1 more u21 defensive option who can play the odd game in a push, and Ernst Poku in a £6m cash + swap deal for the aforementioned Boetius - because PACE. I did want to sell Partey and bringing Kephren Thuram, but despite lots of Partey interest, the offers were derisory, so we'll keep him for the time being. Also flogged Cedric in a loan deal that payed me£1m in loan fees with a guaranteed £4m in future income. Obviously improved the coaching staff, as some of what we have there is poor. Will continue to do so as more funds become available. So bar Cedric out and Tierney, Barco & Hulk in, we start as we are.

Not sure why but my tactic seems to nuke Brighton, even though they've been boosted in the update. Played them 3 times: 7-0, 9-0, 12-1 all with their first team and with my season 1 starting 11 with only a couple of new subs.

Here's my main one - (I also use Zinchenko as a more traditional IFB (A) as well) - I'm struggling with screenshots! Lomekian meets Arteta3.fmf

Got this lad in my first intake. Shouldn't be a CB looking at his physicals, but might make a great DM https://ibb.co/J2B9CZN

After a couple of partial season experiments, I finally finished a season on this years FM with work and kids precluding me before. Probably the 2nd best season I've had on any edition of the game since the original one in the early 90s! Won everything, went unbeaten in the league and found a tactic and rotation approach that worked amazingly, which is a slightly tweaked version of what I think Arteta has got the team doing this season, but with better set-pieces, and greater defensive solidity. Scored SO MANY goals, despite missing Saka and Jesus for a couple of months each. The signings I made, although cheap, were key. Main element was a desire for physicality or positional flexibility as I think this squad needs both. Summer: Vrsaljko came in on a free (as did a couple of others I then flogged in January who didn't impact much), to basically replace Cedric in the squad. Not much cop, but allowed me to rest others in the domestic cups, as I didn't bother registering him. Also brought in Quaresma (mostly for mentoring and to be on bench in LC & FA Cup). Brought In Olivier Ntcham from Swansea for 925k mostly to be a bench option in domestic cups, but also to be a HG option beter than Matt Smith. Cheap wages tasty long shots, which is part of my tactic. Hugo Veltesen - £3m. Was plannng to target him for a bosman in due course, but again moved early to stop Spurs getting him. Performed much better than expected and was key in the Europa League run January: Added numbers to protect first 15 as fixtures stacked up Zlatan! - 1.2m - Bought as a personal indulgence, a great mentor and some height to throw on up front if needed. Can't run, but an absolute demon off the bench in games we dominated. A goal a game in all comps purely as a sub coming on after 60-70mins. So good in the air, and occasionally belted one in from DLF. Performed far better than expected and improving the mentality of those around him too. Jake Cooper from Milwall - 2.5m - a cups only option to beast it in the air against physical opponents. 4 goals in 6 starts, including against Brentford in the Fa Cup final where he shut down Ivan Toney Roberto Gagliardini from Inter for £1.3m (listed/contract expiring)- basically resplaced Elneny who Man Utd bizarrely bought for 25m and played a lot. Great mentals and professionalism. Pretty meh like Eleneny, but randomly boshed one in from 30 yards in the Europa League QFs. Being listed meant he's on the same wages as Mo was. Sivert Mannsverk from Molde for £3.7m - wasn't going to go for him yet, but had to buy him to stop Spurs getting him. Like him in real life, and I think he's a touch overrated on FM. Good preferred moves and apparently good personality. Basically he'll replace Gagliardini in the squad. Only had a handful of games, but was v solid. Dani Ceballos - Free. Real Madrid released him, so I picked him up after Jan transfer window ended to boost my cup squad. Plan to sell him if I can, should be possible as on lower wages, but can cover Xhaka role to a degree if not. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain £3.4m - last minute of transfer window as needed someone who could cover right wing as Saka had a few knocks. Being home grown and givng sentimentality points was fun too! Was dirt cheap (though expensive wages at 100k). Turned out to be prescient as Saka got injured for the run-in, and The Ox stepped up as an assist machine, particularly in the Europa League. Alvaro Fidalgo £450k, America (Mex) - bought him on a previous experiment as cheap cup cover for Odegaard as F Vieira was struggling with a few knocks and ESR got an injury towards the end of the window. Tomas Lemar £6m - Didn't really need him, but I thought listed at that price, being so versatile, and potentially able to cover the way I use Zinchenko, it seemed like a sensible pick up. Didn't use him as much as I thought (partly because I somehow failed to register him for Europe like an idiot). Worst case scenario is he gets sold for a profit, but I think he'll see more game time next season. Nelson Weiper - Mainz - £3.4. Brought in the 17 year old after having a look at him after reading a story online about his goalscoring exploits. Well rounded, good size although not exceptional at any one thing. Though it turned out he was exceptional at scoring goals. I realised I was onto something when scored SIX goals against an under strength and tired Man U in the league cup Q4. He got 4 in 120 mins of Fa Cup football, and 16 in 9 starts and 5 sub appearances in the Premier League, which was very welcome after Jesus got injured and Eddie couldn't play twice a week. Scores all kinds of goals, Headers on set pieces, dinks after beating the offside trap, rifles from tight angles, scrappy ones off his knee. Has improved a lot too, suggesting he has good hidden attributes. Elsewhere, from the starting squad, Martinell, Saka, Odegaard, Jesus and Xhaka were all amazing, with the latter getting 13 goals and 20 assists in all comps as a Mezzala at LCM. https://ibb.co/C81Zqwf https://ibb.co/WWh8ZcR https://ibb.co/bd2CbKj Squad info in URLS above as I can't work out how to insert images without getting errors Think best results were beating full strength Brighton 7-0 away and then 9-0 at home

Nah, just a massive Arsenal spanner who produced and hosted an Arsenal podcast and wrote articles for 7 years or so, who knows a lot more about the club and its youth prospects than the Arsenal researcher ;-)

Started out at Arsenal before going to Celtic. I think his dad is quite famous in his field of work.

But do you want to be a 442 in possession as well? Out of posession you can create the same to a degree by getting your AM & CF to mark respective centre backs (or to certain degree setting pressing in opp instructions).

Easily done if you abandon symmetry. I've not had a symmetrical formation on FM for years, and my tactics tend to be very effective. With this challenge, its tricky because the best tactical coaches innovate quicker than FM can adapt, so the roles of Ben White and Xhaka in particular are not possible to fully replicate in game, because they fulfill multiple functions in matches. Same with Fabio Vieira when he was at Porto. That said I'm pretty happy with what I;ve come up with. I haven't got round to screenshots and image hosting yet, but I've uploaded my tactic if anyone wants a look. Martinelli is killing it as IW(a) - 18 goals, 13 assists in 16 games in season one (15 games in the EPL). Odegaard drifing into the right half space and playing diagonal balls behind the full back has accounted for half of those. Needs a bit more work to get the team doing more pull backs to arriving attacking midfielders. Not sure its possible to get White both tucking in and overlapping without the match enging nerfing the link with Saka, or indeed the Xhaka unique position combo of DLP, RP, MEZ, AM, IWB that he can regualrly play in the same game, but I'm pretty happy with the rest. Lomekian meets Arteta.fmf

And of course, one of the major issues is that certain desired improvements to the game - development model, greater dynamic potential, more nuanced player ratings, latest tactical innovations etc - a) have come into widespread consciousness quite rapidly in recent years and b) would potentially require a ground up overhaul of so much of the entire game - and would involve a lot of work and expense, without necessarily seeing that reflected commercially or in terms of popularity. The issue (as it was with Civ in historical 4x games) is that 1 title has become so successful and market dominant (and rightly so I hasten to add) that other developers are loathe to really offer serious competition because the investment to likely return simply isn't worth it. And without competition, there is no impetus to accelerate the pace of development. That said, despite a few lingering issues, the new match engine IS a notable step forward, and probably makes a bigger difference to fans/customers than many of the other issues discussed. But yes, the press conferences are terrible, and have been for years.

Thank you both for the patience and graciousness of your responses @MrPompey & @HUNT3R - I will have a proper look when I get a chance and stick my oar in in a constructive manner. I very pleasant contrast to when I questioned this in the past. I guess I'd probably start with the youth teams (particularly Arsenal as I write about them and work with some youth specialists on occasion), because they are so poorly researched that it should be a low bar in terms of offering something useful!

Trust me, having been a part of this community since it began I do appreciate the roles of Assistant Researchers, but 1) ultimately those people performing the roles for free is more of a question for SI (ultimately FM's viability relies on its database) & 2) My previous attempts to input some years back were treated in a manner this discouraged further input. Given that you have been kind enough to engage in this conversation, what do you make of the points I have raised in the post directly above this one? I suppose the ESR one is just about detailed enough that you may be able to suggest how one might approach the point I'm making. I'd also like to have someone (anyone who knows!) respond to the issue around u18 ratings being so obviously incomplete, which given just how much data and footage is avaialable out there now, particularly for high profile clubs, really shouldn't be acceptable for something so database driven. I'm more than happy to contribute in a positive manner to addressing this, but would want some sort of knowledge about how this would work before spamming the data bugs forum.

Thank you. I guess I'm just trying to make the point more generally though, bugs only really tend to cover clear data errors (ie factual absolutes) - the attribute ratings etc are of course subjective. I'm not really bothered about any one specific attribute or invidual player record. Its the cut and paste approach and the lack of knowledge re youth prospects that frustrates. Its been the same for a few years. I've raised the broader issue more than once in the past, previously giving specific examples, but have basically been told to do one. The question is, what can be done about opening the game and seeing 2/3 of a squad having almost identical attributes 3 or 4 years in a row, despite significant real life changes. To use an obvious example, why has Emile Smith Rowe, after a largely breakout season, England caps, 10 EPL goals in half a season and one of the best shot conversion rates in the country for those with any notable shot numbers, got very similar attributes to FM20 when he had barely played a first team game, and almost identical attributes to FM21 when he played twice in the top flight with very little impact.The Attribute distribution suggests a tiny CA increase from very inexperienced u21 player to England international. The u18 ratings are an absolute joke, with players known for their speed off the mark with accelleration and pace of 8 or 9, players heights and weights inaccurate - random stats at 1 or 2 which bear no relation to the players in question. Its like they are purely based on vague archetypes and then totally randomised. u21 players tend to be more fleshed out, but again there are multiple examples of players whose attributes are almost entirely unchanged in 2-3 years. Of course its far better than 10-15 years ago when every half decent youth prosepct had a chance of being a top international player, but given how much of the DB is pre-established and just needs updating year on year, its a LONG way short of acceptability when data update is such a huge part of what we pay for, and to my view is actully getting worse year on year. It also calls into question, as does the training elements, and the changing trends in football, whether the current CA/PA and attributes model is suitable for purpose any more. Although I appreciate moving away from that would be a HUGE undertaking and would probably take years of work to achieve.

There used to be a specific part fo the forum for this, but I can't find it now. Despite knowing that this current season won't be taken into account, I am really disappointed with some of the player research. Obviosuly I am more focused on the teams I follow/play with, but there seems to be a LOT of copy/paste in the player data, which has been an ongoing issue for 2-3 years. Mutiple players whose attributes are either identical or very similar to 2 or 3 years ago, despite said players going from fringe options in mediocre teams to every day starters in vastly improved sides. Or players now playing massively different roles not remotely reflected in their attributes. Or so lack of obvious traits. And of course the youth player attributes, for all but a few top prospects, seem almost randomly generated - which for a big follower of age groups is frustrating. Its not so much a question of CA/PA levels (dont know what those are for the beta anyway), but for so many players I might as well still be playing FM20. Really disappointing. I didn't by FM22 (the first I'd missed since the old Domark days with fake players) for this reason, and unless there are big changes afoot, I can't see myself buying FM24. Given that 75% of the reason to buy every year is for updated data (the new features annually are nice touches that do add, but hardly revolutionary), when the amount of work on this front is so uneven in levels of detail or effort put in, this seriously needs revolutionising.

Looking at the FM23 beta its another utterly half-arsed effort from the Arsenal researcher. There are players on there whose starting attributes haven't changed in 3 years. Still far too many kids with attributes that bear little relation to the players. Players who had really good seasons last year with worse or the same attributes than before. Have to edit it every year because its so poorly done. Not so much CA/PA levels but a highly regarded player with 2 good seasons under their belt shouldn't have the same attributes as they did with barely any top league time - not to mention the traits always being under-defined and never changing.