[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

7 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

I don't think its ignoring user feedback. It could also be to protect players from building a state of the art facility when you can't afford it and ruin your save/team. Obviously if you're a top team it shouldn't be an issue generally. But by incrementing it you can't completely break a save years down the line because your club can't afford the upkeep.

The challenge is more the financial projections of the game than it is "not hard to implement". The idea is easy yes. I don't know if its easy to make sure all the right things are taken into account if you're going from level 10 to level 20.

With facilities I suppose it won't be unreasonable to have them upgraded to match the situation irl during a major update or next version. 

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

11 hours ago, decapitated said:

"If people are expecting FM24 plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, they're not going to be getting that with FM25."

Reading and (kinda) dissecting the interview -- top line says is clearly: it's a whole new game for us, like how Civilisation has always been evolving, from a clean slate  and then building further from there.

11 hours ago, decapitated said:

"So when we're looking at that and going, well, do we port something across from our old game that isn't good enough? The answer is 'no'."

This was for Shouts and International Management for instance.

11 hours ago, decapitated said:

"They've got their tablet, and they've got their phone, so we wanted to move into that more. The football world never really had email!"

So the UI will definitely look more tablet like (we've seen a hint of it from the tiles they've posted).

11 hours ago, decapitated said:

"There is a lot of muscle memory involved," he says. "And some of that muscle memory is going to have to be relearned. Some people are going to pick it up straight away, and for some, it's going to be a curve."

So it'll work out kinds similar gameplay wise, just slightly different way to access what we're used to. Hopefully each of us will be able to develop our own style with much more variety (I found out about modifying the default skin late on in FM24, and it's working well for me without needing other packs).

11 hours ago, decapitated said:

"When you move to an engine, there are lots of 'known unknowns', and there are lots of 'unknown unknowns'." What that means, in development terms, is changing scope. Some of those scope changes come in the form of those aforementioned cuts this year.

Unfortunately that's the nature of the Unity beast, or moving to any other platform.

11 hours ago, decapitated said:

"It's not only de-scope. Sometimes it's re-scope, and sometimes up-scope." One example Jacobson did share was the new UI itself, a system of "tiles" and "cards" which, he tells me, the studio had initially aimed to make identical across all platforms, from PC to console and even Netflix or Apple Arcade on mobiles. In the end, those plans have changed quite considerably, with the mobile platforms staying on the old engine for now and moving to Unity with later editions down the line.

So once again for those craving for International Management, there's still FM Mobile (I'll be playing Wales, maybe while waiting for my lagtop to process regular FM) 

11 hours ago, decapitated said:

"That's something that generative AI is not capable of, and anyone who's ever used a chatbot will know that it's not capable of doing that, and would also go so ridiculously off-piste and be impossible to QA. And impossible to get signed off by legal. And impossible to get signed off by licencing. So we're not using it in this way."

So yes quite clearly, not for quite a while.

12 hours ago, decapitated said:

For all the talk of what hasn't made it into the game this year, there are, thankfully, some big new features coming. Typically, Jacobson is only willing to talk about these "off the record"

This is probably the thing we're all waiting for.

12 hours ago, decapitated said:

That licence is now shared, with the likes of fellow football series EA Sports FC 25 and others. Notably, EAFC has introduced a range of distinctly Football Manager-like features this year, in its revamped tactics system dubbed FC IQ. It features, amongst other things, a new take on formations that brings in a system called Player Roles - a term that'll be familiar to FM players - that goes as far as to use some closely overlapping concepts and terms, such as 'deep-lying playmakers' in defensive midfield.

So it's a collaboration to seal the licensing deal, which probably explains why FM is catching up really well with EAFC/Fifa recently.

12 hours ago, decapitated said:

The studio realised it had "more than 10 million players on the game then, but 9 million of them are pirating it, and how many of those would have actually bought it?" It turned out to be "a pretty small number," Jacobson said, because they either couldn't afford to, or were young kids "still swapping stuff in playgrounds".

Interesting history, the landscape is much changed now -- a lot more will be paying (or happily waiting for free and legal GamePass)

12 hours ago, decapitated said:

"Everybody says that they want change, right?" Jacobson says. "People are kind of scared of it at the same time and, when change happens, will sometimes react to it negatively just because it's not what they know. So, 'we want change' and then you deliver change, and then, 'well we didn't want this much change!'" he laughs.

That probably sums it up, so like many things irl, it's happening -- let's stand together and move forward bravely into the new era.

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

13 hours ago, Novem9 said:

I played in Uruguay and had a very annoying club owner. I vaguely remember the details, but he irritated me with his tyranny and at the same time it was fun as a change. After his refusals, I was asked at a press conference about the situation in the club. I answered honestly and negatively. When I moved to the next club, the board of this new club made me promise not to criticize them publicly. FM22

Wow, sounds like the interaction has increased your 'controversy' attribute :-p

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Very spursy.

I was actually looking forward to this feature and being forced to change my approach.

But in reality I find it's more an illusion of depth rather than meaningful depth.

I remember in earlier versions if we 'disagree' sufficiently with the board it leads to a (usually) quick dismissal.

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

35 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The board and fans club culture is definitely one.

You can just ignore it play exactly how you want and if you are even vaguely successful they'll just change the entire club culture to how you were playing, irrespective of the original culture.

I haven't been successful enough to challenge the culture in significant ways, so for those saves I find being unsackable helps lol.

But it's also true that results do matter (as they do irl)

As for players and tactics, I don't really go galacticos or 'meta -- but I do find Training quite useful if one makes a little extra effort to actually use the feature ;-)

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

37 minutes ago, trevjim said:

Agreed. Especially when all SI needed to do was remove it from the women's version of that's the area they were worried about 

It's not that, otherwise they would have done so.

Taking the principles which Miles has always mentioned:- 
 

• Would we do it in the same way if we had our time again?
• Would we have done this at all?
• Do we have the time required to do this to the highest possible standard, in our first cycle of a new era

Weight probably doesn't meet any of the 3 criteria.
Shouts and International Management aren't meeting the third criteria, so we'll have to wait unfortunately
After the FifaE collaboration, it's good to review VS and Drafts from scratch

With Unity as the context, leagues including Women's are on track, so it's a go for that.

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

1 hour ago, wazzaflow10 said:

Well small in terms of the game. Not small in terms of the perceived politics behind the reason which is why its attracted the crowd is has.

It's a development (technical) thread, would have been great to have it remain so (what x means to the game of FM).

If the consensus is that discussions about weight/height/etc are essentially political (what x means to humans), would it be better to have it discussed separately? 

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

36 minutes ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

Additionally, 100% of people would have seen weights in the game, and yet nobody seems to point that out and the justification (being made by players, because SI's reasoning is a single ridiculous line) is that it's an irrelevant number and not relevant to the match engine.

This describes weight as used in FM, *factually*.
Transfer values are definitely relevant to the game of FM, though obviously not to the match engine.

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm sure I've read shouts weren't working the way they were planned and when looking at it fully they seemed illogical as your shout wasn't instant and instead waited until the next stoppage in play (which could cause issues of "praising" your players at 0-0 just to actually "shout" it straight after you concede).

I don't use shouts enough to pay enough attention to know if thats true.

Yes, officially mentioned on 27 June:-

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/development-update-football-manager-25

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

6 minutes ago, Birdman10piyu said:

Yea, I bet poor Suzie is absolutely dying to play Football Manager. 

Again, I never said I HAD anything against Women's Football. If you took time to read my post, you'd see that my argument you'd see that I'm saying, it's not a big priority in majority of the playerbases' eyes

Would be good to say it as such; it reads really different first time round imo 

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

34 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

As a partial member of this I'd say catering more to mobile is the bigger issue. Modern mobile games have ruined a lot of game development in my opinion. Everyone is trying to make the next candy crush or clash of clans or whatever dumb p2w gameplay loop mode they can think of.

Built for console games have their own space that's fun at least and thre's something to be said for just being able to boot up a console without hassle. I wouldn't play a designed for pc game on console though. I don't know how someone plays FM with a controller if that's what they're doing. 

I tried FM mobile for the 15 mins I had it simultaneously with the netflix subscription and couldn't get into it.

Suppose you can ask here:-

and here for console:-
https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/forum/135-fm-console-and-fm-touch-general-discussion/

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

6 minutes ago, scythian12 said:

The PC gaming master race credentials in me would say in an insulting manner: catering to dirty console peasants.

It is easier for the programmers to release the product on multiple platforms. (And crucially, also develop the game on, fix bugs etc for these varying platforms at the same time)

But it being more ubiquitously available and used throughout the industry, there is also quite a few 3rd-party extensions / libraries, e. g. SI can more easily licence / use a physics, face, whatever model if they so desire.

Yeah that and better graphics apparently, likely faster gameplay, easier navigation -- easier to maintain hopefully. 
I suspect the market would really explode positively if and when mobile does come on board (not yet in 2025 unfortunately, but international management will still be available on mobile).

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

2 hours ago, angelo994 said:

I don’t get your thinking here. You make it sound like woman’s football is a totally different game from men’s. It’s just another league to play in. You’re acting like it’s a completely different universe. 

 

Building Lego with my child has been an insightful experience for me. We build a bird that took over 100 steps and little over 2 days. 
The next moment he says, let's build a fish now -- and proceeds to tear down the bird while I was still marvelling at the work!
The fish takes fewer steps, and *excludes several elements* from the bird that we had worked hard to assemble (those elements made the bird a bit awkward, but it is what it is, and I loved it anyways).
And we took slightly longer to build the fish due to unexpected interruptions.

Unity is the completely different universe, partly as it claims to combine the physics etc. to fit all football players realistically.
International football is the block of Lego that's particularly challenging to disassemble (even with Lego brick remover), so it will just have to wait unfortunately.

The previous model is good while it lasts (20 years is a long time) -- but we have to move on.
My 5 yo moved on in a heartbeat; his old man also has done it, even though it took longer (I was going on about the bird even while we were more than halfway done with the fish).

I hope that the good folk in this community (who are much younger than I am for sure) will do the same.

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

45 minutes ago, G81 said:

I can't be alone in being disappointed that fm mobile appears to be the 'ginger haired stepchild' of the 2025 series, given from what I've read it's another basic update with none of the upgrades the other formats are seeing?

FM Mobile isn't running on Unity in 2025 -- good news is that International Management remains intact there ;-)

[FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

This may be related to the new interface. With new/updated modules for clubs. It is impossible to say from the outside what exactly the problem is. But imagine that you had a house made of LEGO, and you want to build the same one using bricks from another company. This is a very rough example, but putting a module from an old constructor into a new one will not be the best idea even for a temporary solution. Because then it will be harder to take it out than it seems

I'm so glad someone has finally use the Lego analogy: it's really an entirely new thing SI is doing with Unity.

I've heard from friends who actually code with Unity on other games, that it really isn't the easiest thing to do -- so I feel we need to let SI take the time needed to sort out what needs to be done to come up with a Minimum Viable Product (not many would like me using this term, but if we're making a new thing from reconstituted Lego, that's exactly what's happening here).

We would all love it to be seamless and 'like previous FMs' but it was never gonna happen exactly as we hope, was it?

To rebuild everything, it is completely reasonable to have it with fewer features, particularly those that have been sticking out like sore thumbs. 

So let's trust that whatever features that remain would work decently with Unity, and let the other stuff (which  I do like for immersion) find their way somewhere along the journey.

 

[*Official* Football Manager 2024 Mobile Feedback Thread]

I just want to say thank you for all the hard work in doing FM Mobile.

I'm just getting my feet wet in FM24 mobile, and I'll probably continue onto FM25 mobile as well (if things go well with Netflix).

Hopefully if I get my international team ported over to FM25 with minimal hassle.