mrmeee17

I mean there is terrible punditry all the time but surely the discerning amongst us would have known even before yesterday that it was no Southgate tactical masterclass that got us to the final. If the players had somehow managed to sneak a win it would have been in spite of rather than because of Southgate.

Rice is not a playmaking 6, the sooner we stop thinking he will play like Rodri the better. Whether Wharton is the answer or whether it's someone else, it means Rice, Bellingham, Foden and Mainoo are competing for the 2 midfield positions ahead of the 6 if we want to play a proper system with players in their proper positions. There is going to people's favorites out of the XI and some are not going to like it.

Doesn't fit the narrative as well though.

Reckon it's 50/50. Spain have been good but when the big teams face off, like in the Germany game, there's a lot of luck and randomness involved.

Not sure why that's your takeaway from my entire post tbh. Probably could read the entire post or even just the line before that.

I'm with kopsy, not sure I can agree with this. He has been good to very good considering his age and the fact that it's his first international tournament. But if we are to hold him to the same standards as everyone else then I don't think he's necessarily been at a level above everyone else as some are trying to make out. Even in the most recent game (which was probably his best game), the whole team was generally good in the first half with Foden, Saka and him being the better players. In the second half no one really did too much of note up until Watkins' moment of brilliance at the end. So considering the overall game (which is based mostly on the first half) I'd personally say Foden was our best player considering he almost scored twice. Or you can give it to Watkins for his match winning brilliance in the limited time he had.

At this stage I don't really care anymore how we win as long as we win. But based on everything I've seen so far this tournament, we have been winning in spite of, rather than because of, Southgate.

It is something the eye test also confirms; he frequently passes it backwards, sideways or immediately back where it came from and often very quickly when sometimes he does actually have the time to properly assess his options and play it forward. I did wonder if the problem was progressive passing why Wharton wasn't the midfielder picked to partner Rice.

Does Holland go if Southgate goes?

In fairness we look better today than in any of the previous games. Need to offer more than just hoping Saka beats the 1v2 though because at some point they are going to realise and either triple team or kick the **** out of him.

At least he has the sense not to put Saka at LB.

Is it not just Konsa in for Guehi?

0-0 to pens is my guess.

Surprised to see so many hoping for Portugal to win; they are my least liked team because they have a number of detestable characters. For me if not England probably France or Germany because of their Arsenal players.

Nobody's going to completely change the formation in the knockout stages of a major tournament. Even in club football where you have more time managers usually just choose their favored formation and largely stick with it with a few tweaks here and there. So the best we can hope for is Southgate moving/dropping Foden but he's not even going to do that. Expect Konsa for Guehi and that's probably it.

If we are talking on paper we should be referring to how good the players usually are. Because obviously if we are talking about how they've been playing this tournament under Southgate we all know they've been playing ****. Still think England have the best or at worst second best (behind France) team on paper.

Walker went RCB when Saka went RWB.

Probably mentioned thousands of times already but we are suffering from no one (except Saka) running at defenders or even just making runs behind the defence. Saka tries to, but because Kane doesn't and Foden just keeps coming inside, he gets double teamed and our attack is completely stifled. One of Kane or Foden (ideally Foden) needs to be dropped or moved to midfield.

It's coming home

Actually winning in normal time wound be fantastic. Fully expecting them to grind it out via extra time/penalties.

I think Southgate will have underachieved if he does poorly in this tournament, also considering the fact that he will have failed to win any of multiple tournaments with one of the best teams of players in world football. Just like the managers of those underachieving teams as you have astutely highlighted. I can see that you are clearly very much more invested in this topic than I am willing to be so I will just leave it at that for today

There is a difference between being defensive and being badly set up tactically. Greece was set up well by Rehhagel considering the players he had relative to the competition. We are set up poorly and look to struggle bringing the ball from defence into threatening areas, much less actually creating good chances.

Quoting you Rob but also applies to a few others who made a similar point. Sure, but why limit yourself only to the abject failures of (most) previous England managers? Why not also include managers who have actually won things with good groups of players (Deschamps with France, etc.) or even worse teams (Rehhagel with Greece, Fernando Santos with Portugal)? Tbh I think on paper the starting XI and bench we currently have is arguably the best or second best in world football. Edit: I see that you have written 'England or someone else' but your defence of Southgate seems to be mostly centred on comparing him to the failures of previous England managers

Think Saka gets subbed because Southgate's managing his minutes. He's probably playing with a minor injury or something.

Also second worst in xG created