[SUGGESTION] Tweaks for transfer dealings

[Weston]

• It seems like these days clubs very often reach deals with players before negotiating with clubs, but FM requires you to have the selling club accept an offer before you can offer a contract to a player. I suppose in order to better reflect current trends, this should be changed.
• You can work out preemptive transfer deals that get enacted once the window opens, but not for loan deals. Why is that? That should be allowed.
• I’ve NEVER been offered a player trade ever (and only ever had one accepted once or twice), and that seems like it should happen more often, especially as I usually play lower league teams.
• Allow real life methods of clever rule bending. For example, if your non-EU quota is full, make it so you can do those shady deals where you pay a smaller team to sign the player for you and then have the club send the player to you on loan with obligation to buy, etc.
• In that same vein, real life clubs often sign a player only to ship him back out immediately either as part of a loan deal or otherwise, but I find this hard to replicate in the game as the player will refuse to leave so soon after arriving. It also seems unrealistically difficult to sell players who are currently injured - they're just temporarily hurt, not perpetually damaged goods (unless this is an issue of them failing a medical? Can that happen in the game?).
• Can we delay deals for less than a week? If I have two deals going on at the same time, a first choice and a backup, but the backup gets confirmed first, it would be nice to be able to delay it for just a few days to see if I grab my first choice, as opposed to getting stuck delaying for a full week.
• And lastly, and maybe most importantly, I always start my games without the first transfer window, as I find it too unrealistic to add a whole separate set of transfers on top of the current updated squad which reflects that after the previous transfer window already. This way it's as if I took over the day after the window ended the day before the season started, and I have to guide this squad for a bit before I can impose my own vision. That being said, when this option is checked I usually get absolutely NOTHING, not even enough spare change to hire a better Assistant Manger or pay the nominal wages for a Serie B free agent. Is there not way to maintain the integrity of keeping off the first window, but still allow for some funds to pick up some free agents and staff without having to wait til January? That would be realistic, especially considering managers often get to bring in new staff and free agents are often picked up outside of transfer windows anyway.

[Tiozaa]

I agree, the tranfer negotiation system does need some tweaking. I would love to see something where CPU clubs look to take advantage of high interest from a number of teams. If you are a mid-table Premier League side, yet a number of big Champions League clubs are interested in your player you would look to sell to the highest bidder, enabling you to recieve a larger fee for him. However, I dont see the CPU clubs doing this at all. On one of my saves Bayern Levurkusen signed Isco for £15mil, he had an unbelievable season and they won the league ahead of Dortmund and Bayern. In the next transfer window they sold him for £25 mil though???

I think you can bring foward a delayed transfer any time within the week. On the transfer tab of the player I believe.

[Weston]

56 minutes ago, Tiozaa said:

I think you can bring foward a delayed transfer any time within the week. On the transfer tab of the player I believe.

Really?? Will have to look into this later. Would've saved me a lot of trouble if true.

[Fer Fuchs Ake]

Good idea. I love sognibt and selling players, so it would be nice to see an improved system.

[Weston]

Could also add to this:

• Rework the way you ask the board to consider signing a player outside of the prearranged budget to make it more dynamic. Say scouts tell you to "sign someone whatever the price," it would be nice to have that scout attend the meeting with you to attest to the board the importance of working something out much in the way you introduce an older player to the discussion with a younger lad seeking tutelage. Say you can debate future terms, like asking for a deduction in the next window's budget to compensate, or promise a sale afterwards to compensate if the deal goes through, etc. In general I feel like over all the years I've played FM I can't remember ever getting the board to actually successfully sign someone by request - even when it was an exceptionally exciting prospective deal they didn't even seem to realize the gravity of the situation. Maybe it worked once or twice back when I used to manage very large clubs...

[Guest]

On 10/08/2016 at 04:55, Weston said:

• It seems like these days clubs very often reach deals with players before negotiating with clubs, but FM requires you to have the selling club accept an offer before you can offer a contract to a player. I suppose in order to better reflect current trends, this should be changed.
• You can work out preemptive transfer deals that get enacted once the window opens, but not for loan deals. Why is that? That should be allowed.
• I’ve NEVER been offered a player trade ever (and only ever had one accepted once or twice), and that seems like it should happen more often, especially as I usually play lower league teams.
• Allow real life methods of clever rule bending. For example, if your non-EU quota is full, make it so you can do those shady deals where you pay a smaller team to sign the player for you and then have the club send the player to you on loan with obligation to buy, etc.
• In that same vein, real life clubs often sign a player only to ship him back out immediately either as part of a loan deal or otherwise, but I find this hard to replicate in the game as the player will refuse to leave so soon after arriving. It also seems unrealistically difficult to sell players who are currently injured - they're just temporarily hurt, not perpetually damaged goods (unless this is an issue of them failing a medical? Can that happen in the game?).
• Can we delay deals for less than a week? If I have two deals going on at the same time, a first choice and a backup, but the backup gets confirmed first, it would be nice to be able to delay it for just a few days to see if I grab my first choice, as opposed to getting stuck delaying for a full week.
• And lastly, and maybe most importantly, I always start my games without the first transfer window, as I find it too unrealistic to add a whole separate set of transfers on top of the current updated squad which reflects that after the previous transfer window already. This way it's as if I took over the day after the window ended the day before the season started, and I have to guide this squad for a bit before I can impose my own vision. That being said, when this option is checked I usually get absolutely NOTHING, not even enough spare change to hire a better Assistant Manger or pay the nominal wages for a Serie B free agent. Is there not way to maintain the integrity of keeping off the first window, but still allow for some funds to pick up some free agents and staff without having to wait til January? That would be realistic, especially considering managers often get to bring in new staff and free agents are often picked up outside of transfer windows anyway.

1. Totally agree with this idea.

2. Not sure where this one is coming from as we can agree transfers at any time with the moves completing when the window opens.

3. They are very rare irl & as such are equally rare in FM I do recall seeing clubs offer players as part of a deal in the past, maybe the code has become buried too deep in the options that AI clubs never get to that option in the decision making.

4. SI will never allow this.

5 & 6. When negotiating a transfer there is an option to include a loan back clause while younger prospects will tend to agree to a loan out to a decent sized affiliate club, players signed on a senior squad status (Rotation or higher) are less likely to accept a loan for obvious reasons.

6. You can already do this, one you have the funds go to the transfer centre & there will be an option to complete the delayed transfers.

7. I have no issue with how the game currently works here, I also start with transfer budgets disabled for the first window but I also use the add players to playable teams option to ensure that every club has sufficient player numbers to fill a match squad which is okay by me.

 

1 hour ago, Weston said:

Could also add to this:

• Rework the way you ask the board to consider signing a player outside of the prearranged budget to make it more dynamic. Say scouts tell you to "sign someone whatever the price," it would be nice to have that scout attend the meeting with you to attest to the board the importance of working something out much in the way you introduce an older player to the discussion with a younger lad seeking tutelage. Say you can debate future terms, like asking for a deduction in the next window's budget to compensate, or promise a sale afterwards to compensate if the deal goes through, etc. In general I feel like over all the years I've played FM I can't remember ever getting the board to actually successfully sign someone by request - even when it was an exceptionally exciting prospective deal they didn't even seem to realize the gravity of the situation. Maybe it worked once or twice back when I used to manage very large clubs...

That kind of already happens, the higher rated a player is the more likely the board will agree to push the budgets to do a deal. Having an extra layer to bring in the scout would be a nice touch if the board refused your initial request just to add to the illusion created by the conversations.

[kpsia518]

i think why not more active player's agent ?

when we want loan or sell some one out,agent should do more job for the transfer.

 

[Weston]

8 hours ago, Barside said:

2. Not sure where this one is coming from as we can agree transfers at any time with the moves completing when the window opens.

4. SI will never allow this.

5 & 6. When negotiating a transfer there is an option to include a loan back clause while younger prospects will tend to agree to a loan out to a decent sized affiliate club, players signed on a senior squad status (Rotation or higher) are less likely to accept a loan for obvious reasons.

Thank you for your help and explanations in general! Always great to find out something you wish would be implemented is already there haha

Specifically, still have some questions though:

2. I know you can agree transfers at any time, but you cannot seem to agree loan deals at any time except for within a window. Why can you not work out loan deals ahead of time and have them enacted once the window opens like normal transfers? When playing smaller teams I often have to decide between signing outright a mediocre player or loaning a younger kid at a comparable level from a larger club, but that leaves me with the choice of either securing the older guy now or having to just sit around riskily waiting and hoping a loan could materialize because it cannot be planned for solidly.

5-6. This only works if you want to loan the player directly back to the team from which you signed him, though, no? What if I sign a player from Argentina and want to loan to him to a fellow Italian side - often I'd get the message that the kid doesn't want to leave so soon even if the plan was to always immediately ship him out temporarily. And why would he sign if I told him straight up he'd be completely unneeded for the squad? My point is some nuance there would be nice, say for example the ability to specifically tell him in the negotiations, I want you for the future but will loan you out for now.

4. Why not? If it's a real life aspect of the game should it not be emulated by the playable simulation? If I'm Roma what's stopping me from arranging for Sassuolo to sign Sanabria for me?

[Guest]

On # 4 that kind of links to co-ownership in Italy which was outlawed before the start of last season & overall third party ownership/influence is breaches global transfer regulations & in some countries club competition regulation which is why SI are unlikely to ever consider it. 

Your addition to 5-6 about agreeing a loan out during the contract talks is a cleaver idea & one that has a connection to real life & might even help further reduce the ability to stockpile future talent as there will be some players who will rightly reject the idea.  The difficult part will be in coding the AI managers to also use the option when appropriate otherwise it would likely become another user only advantage.

As for pre-agreed loan deals if you can find examples (excluding loans as part of a full transfer deal) it's worth posting links, nothing better to get a new feature in than plenty of real life examples of it happening.

[Weston]

1 hour ago, Barside said:

Your addition to 5-6 about agreeing a loan out during the contract talks is a cleaver idea & one that has a connection to real life & might even help further reduce the ability to stockpile future talent as there will be some players who will rightly reject the idea.  The difficult part will be in coding the AI managers to also use the option when appropriate otherwise it would likely become another user only advantage.

Agreed. Hopefully it's something the team can look into implementing!

 

1 hour ago, Barside said:

As for pre-agreed loan deals if you can find examples (excluding loans as part of a full transfer deal) it's worth posting links, nothing better to get a new feature in than plenty of real life examples of it happening.

I'll have to do some digging and see if I can come up with some examples as evidence. That being said, is there any particular reason why it is currently disallowed if it is in fact legal by the laws of the game? Seems strange FM would specifically allow transfers but intentionally continue to block loans despite that.

[Guest]

It'll most likely be a decision based on available processing resources, for most saves the transfer system demands more system resources than anything else including the match engine so to add in loan offers outside of a valid loan window could significantly increase the minimum system requirements for very little gain in terms of game play.

[Weston]

On 8/23/2016 at 15:05, Barside said:

It'll most likely be a decision based on available processing resources, for most saves the transfer system demands more system resources than anything else including the match engine so to add in loan offers outside of a valid loan window could significantly increase the minimum system requirements for very little gain in terms of game play.

Hadn't thought of that - that's unfortunate. Hope there can be room found eventually, though, as it still seems like an important basic function.

[Weston]

New idea I want to add to this list:

What about the ability to have a first option clauses / pre-arranged fee for a player? I know there are buyback clauses, but similar to first option clauses say for example Team A buys Player A from Team B, the fee could be 10 million + the option to sign Player B for 5 million for a certain time period. Examples include the sorts of deals Juventus has made with Berardi and Vadala. I think in general clauses involving other players are underutilized in the game (like I mentioned before even player trades seem unrealistically rare).

[Neil Brock]

Reviewed so locked.