Weston Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I posted about this in the feature request forum asking for a sort of "fix," but I thought I would put it here as well for a more general discussion on why this is how it is, etc. I'm a bit confused by the combination of coach reports and scout reports. When looking at a player you have on trial, for example, why are they kept separate, and why do the coaches' reports just disappear once the trial ends (which there is no reason they should when they could just be filed along with the old scout reports)? Also, the scout reports show the percentage of knowledge they have reached, but a coach report does not, leaving you no way to know how complete a picture the coach currently has. You can see how much knowledge of your squad each staff member has, but it would be unfeasible to flip screens and extrapolate that into a guess on how accurate each individual reports are without it telling you. This also brings me to wondering why scouts (especially those who have a higher "judge current ability" attribute than my coaches) are not able to give me a report on my own team on the squad depth screen - if you can force your assistant manager out on an assignment to scout someone else surely you can have your own staff hired specifically to judge players look internally as well. Ironically it seems your scouts do in fact have reports on your players, they just aren’t visible. This is evident in the way when they scout a player you can see that player compared to your own squad members in the same position in the report, but you can’t see the reports of your own squad members being used for said comparison and there’s no good reason why that is unless I’m just completely missing something. Can we just make scouting a little more consistent and clear across the board regardless of who is doing it and when or where, and put all staff reports in the same categories, kept and sorted the same way regardless of the type of staff they are? Trials are often a good way to work around scouting difficulties, though they used to be considered a bit of an exploit as players would suddenly become 100% scouted the second they came through the door. Now I feel like now we've swung the other way a bit too far and trials are a bit underwhelming... I mean, if you get a lad on trial for a week it's just that - you're trying him, meaning that after 7 days on your training ground and a friendly or two played you shouldn't still have absolutely no clue (even a range of) how pacey he is, for example. Surely when you are testing a new recruit you would intentionally make a point to have him go through the motions of determining his attributes, even if it takes the whole week to get a fairly complete picture, no? I'm currently giving a 6th tier side a go while I wait for the new release and so I'm pulling in a lot of trialists looking for frees and it's just a bit slower going than I anticipated, but perhaps it's only reflective of just how poor my staff are at this particular level? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 Apologies for bumping my own post, but I'm still at a loss here, so if someone more knowledgable than I could shed some light on this for me it would be a big help... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eborg Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 This is something that I would like to know more about as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 9 hours ago, Eborg said: This is something that I would like to know more about as well. Maybe someone will help us soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Coach reports are just an opinion based on your own coaches attributes on the abilities of a player. Same goes with scout reports. As far as how I play the game. I don't really care, what I want (in terms of staff attributes) is high scouting ability, determination and adaptability from my scouts. When they come back to me with results all I look for in reports is natural fitness and professionalism for youngsters. And then I have a list of key attributes that are peculiar to how I like to play. Then i sift through the reports by creating a filter. This filter lists out what I specifically am looking for in a player. Once a shortlist is made I then bring them to the club. When I trial players i have them in there for at least 6 weeks. By then I should be able to assess if they fit into my way of playing, once again, as long as the fit my list of key attributes then I am fine. I prioritise players with higher potential ability over players that don't. Its really quite simple. At then end of the day, my scouts and coaches give me the numbers I make the assessment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I kinda agree with Weston on a couple of his points. A) Scout reports are saved for a period of time after being "written", I can't think of any reason why coach reports on trialists shouldn't be available for a period of time after the trial is over as well. Its probably more of a coding oversight I suspect. B) While scouting your own players seems a little gamey and I doubt it happens IRL within FM it kinda makes sense to some degree, particularly for trialists. I don't see any real harm in letting scouts give their opinions on your current players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I think having the option to tell a scout to spend a week watching your own players would be stupid, but they could be made available on the same dropdown list that allows you to choose which coach you want to get a report from. Surely'll already have an opinion on your own players, they're scouts, they're paid to have opinions on players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 6 hours ago, Cougar2010 said: I kinda agree with Weston on a couple of his points. A) Scout reports are saved for a period of time after being "written", I can't think of any reason why coach reports on trialists shouldn't be available for a period of time after the trial is over as well. Its probably more of a coding oversight I suspect. B) While scouting your own players seems a little gamey and I doubt it happens IRL within FM it kinda makes sense to some degree, particularly for trialists. I don't see any real harm in letting scouts give their opinions on your current players. Exactly my thoughts. At a higher level you probably wouldn't have your scouts scouting your own squad, but if you're lower league and have only one or two staff with good CA/PA ability you would be wasteful to not ask their opinion on players, especially ones that are being trailed. I always find it silly that I have to sort of decide between offering a player a trial or scouting them when they should be able to work together. 6 hours ago, Rashidi said: Coach reports are just an opinion based on your own coaches attributes on the abilities of a player. Same goes with scout reports. As far as how I play the game. I don't really care, what I want (in terms of staff attributes) is high scouting ability, determination and adaptability from my scouts. When they come back to me with results all I look for in reports is natural fitness and professionalism for youngsters. And then I have a list of key attributes that are peculiar to how I like to play. Then i sift through the reports by creating a filter. This filter lists out what I specifically am looking for in a player. Once a shortlist is made I then bring them to the club. When I trial players i have them in there for at least 6 weeks. By then I should be able to assess if they fit into my way of playing, once again, as long as the fit my list of key attributes then I am fine. I prioritise players with higher potential ability over players that don't. Its really quite simple. At then end of the day, my scouts and coaches give me the numbers I make the assessment. And that's fine and well but does it not bother you when, after trial-ing someone for 6 weeks you lose all of your coach reports on them the day the leave the club? What if you haven't made a decision yet? What if you want to revisit them later? I suppose you could take pictures of your own screen for your own records but that seems silly. I am seeing, though, that I should be trial-ing for longer, which I will take into account for sure. 5 hours ago, noikeee said: I think having the option to tell a scout to spend a week watching your own players would be stupid, but they could be made available on the same dropdown list that allows you to choose which coach you want to get a report from. Surely'll already have an opinion on your own players, they're scouts, they're paid to have opinions on players. And that's exactly my point. If you have your scout scout a player that is not at your club he gives you a list of where that player falls relative to your own squad, so clearly he has reports on your own squad and uses them in this context, but you cannot view them any other way, which is simply unnecessarily restrictive. It's also very unsettling when they seem to be different from your coach reports and you know the scout is more accurate but you can't delve deeper into his thoughts... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted October 6, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 6, 2016 From a 'realism' perspective your scouts are generally seen as being 'off-site' so wouldn't really be around to scout the player. That's one way it could be seen anyway. I suppose if a scout isn't on assignment then there should be the option to use them to look at your own squad. Probably one for the feature requests forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 23 minutes ago, Weston said: And that's exactly my point. Yeah, which is why I'm agreeing with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 13 minutes ago, Neil Brock said: From a 'realism' perspective your scouts are generally seen as being 'off-site' so wouldn't really be around to scout the player. That's one way it could be seen anyway. I suppose if a scout isn't on assignment then there should be the option to use them to look at your own squad. Probably one for the feature requests forum. I understand, which is why I also am tackling this from the angle of hoping to improve coach reports as well by having them also show percentage of knowledge complete (how do I know how much longer I need to trial them?), having them be kept after trialists leave, and by grouping them together with the scout reports in the same "Reports" tab, etc. And sadly I originally put this in the feature requests forum but no one ever responded to it ? Another way to think of this instead of asking your scout to scout your own squad is wondering how your scout knows how good your own squad is in the first place when he gives you relative comparisons of a new player he is scouting? I mean, surely he must periodically check up on your own squad to get a benchmark with which to formulate these rankings? Why can't we just see them? 10 minutes ago, noikeee said: Yeah, which is why I'm agreeing with you. And that's why I'm agreeing with you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 This comment horrified me, and a more realisatic gaming as non realistis Trial as many players as you can..at one point I had something like a 1000 trialists in the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eborg Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Trials have to be sorted out in a number of ways. I believe it is highly unlikely to have 18-year-olds from Uganda on trial in the UK within 24h notice for a number of reasons. 1) Travel, accommodation and visa procedures all incur costs. How can an average 18-year-old from Africa without a club afford a week-long trial in the UK, not to mention longer? It is a cost of at least 1000 GBP, something that would even put off some of the clubs willing to pay for players' costs. If the clubs do not pay for those costs, then the players' agents are the ones to do it or the players themselves - but only if the potential contract offer can justify the investment. There would hardly be an agent willing to fund a trial for a South American youngster going to a trial in the Slovakian 3rd division or English 6th division team offering him a side-job as a grocery store clerk. But if Juventus is calling him - that another matter. Therefore, trials should be paid for either by clubs (and reflected in their finances, perhaps even rejected by boards in clubs scrapped for money) for players without agents or at the start of their careers who are based in far-away locations or by their agents who either have a high profile or a potential contract offer would be high enough for them to invest. How can I get dozens of young Brazillian teenagers from favelas on trial if I am a semi-pro club from San Marino? A Honduran player who had been playing US college football and is expecting to return to his home country and possibly find a club there would be far more available for a US/Canadian trial rather than for a trial in the suburbs of Katowice or Jakarta. If this were so easy - I am sure my local club would get 50 or so Africans and South Americans on trial and pick at least one who is good enough for their squad. 2) When taking non-EU players on trial or when playing outside the EU, visa issues are something that should be taken into account. Even if the club pulls all the strings and pays for an urgent procedure, it is almost impossible to get a visa under 7 days. Now imagine getting a visa for places like the UK, USA or Saudi Arabia where the procedures are extremely strict. 3) Travel and preparation take time as well - if not chartering a plane that only the top clubs would do for their SIGNINGS, it would take at least 48h from the moment you get a message: "Pack up your boots son and come to Nuneaton for a trial. We've heard that you're killing it in football on steppes of rural Mongolia." to actually getting where you're supposed to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Eborg said: Trials have to be sorted out in a number of ways. I believe it is highly unlikely to have 18-year-olds from Uganda on trial in the UK within 24h notice for a number of reasons. 1) Travel, accommodation and visa procedures all incur costs. How can an average 18-year-old from Africa without a club afford a week-long trial in the UK, not to mention longer? It is a cost of at least 1000 GBP, something that would even put off some of the clubs willing to pay for players' costs. If the clubs do not pay for those costs, then the players' agents are the ones to do it or the players themselves - but only if the potential contract offer can justify the investment. There would hardly be an agent willing to fund a trial for a South American youngster going to a trial in the Slovakian 3rd division or English 6th division team offering him a side-job as a grocery store clerk. But if Juventus is calling him - that another matter. Therefore, trials should be paid for either by clubs (and reflected in their finances, perhaps even rejected by boards in clubs scrapped for money) for players without agents or at the start of their careers who are based in far-away locations or by their agents who either have a high profile or a potential contract offer would be high enough for them to invest. How can I get dozens of young Brazillian teenagers from favelas on trial if I am a semi-pro club from San Marino? A Honduran player who had been playing US college football and is expecting to return to his home country and possibly find a club there would be far more available for a US/Canadian trial rather than for a trial in the suburbs of Katowice or Jakarta. If this were so easy - I am sure my local club would get 50 or so Africans and South Americans on trial and pick at least one who is good enough for their squad. 2) When taking non-EU players on trial or when playing outside the EU, visa issues are something that should be taken into account. Even if the club pulls all the strings and pays for an urgent procedure, it is almost impossible to get a visa under 7 days. Now imagine getting a visa for places like the UK, USA or Saudi Arabia where the procedures are extremely strict. 3) Travel and preparation take time as well - if not chartering a plane that only the top clubs would do for their SIGNINGS, it would take at least 48h from the moment you get a message: "Pack up your boots son and come to Nuneaton for a trial. We've heard that you're killing it in football on steppes of rural Mongolia." to actually getting where you're supposed to be. I get what you're saying and agree that would be accurate, but how often do those things actually happen though? Whenever I play as a small club and look for trials I can neither sign, nor even scout players from abroad because of league and board restrictions already. Have you ever actually managed to carry out any of those scenarios you listed in the game or are they just hypotheticals? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eborg Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I always get dozens of out-of-contract players on trials, most of them from abroad. When I am with a small club, it is highly unrealistic. My local club failed IRL to get some players on trials from Africa because their airplane tickets were too expensive and visa procedures were too complicated to have them come over within 10 days. But the money was the biggest deciding factor - some of those players went on to have some decent careers but could not afford a trial in Europe for themselves at that time since the clubs did not want to pay those costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 Thought I'd try this out on the new game. Same problem. Once my trialists leave the club my staff seem to have inexplicable burned all the reports we compiled on them over the 4 week course simply because coach reports don't carry over with players no longer at the club. And because my best CA judging coach is only an 11 whereas my chief scout (you know, the people you hire for being best at judging ability but can't judge ability of players unless they are far away from your own training ground, even if they're still potential signings) is an 18, for some players I'm really interested in I actually terminate their trial and send them back just so I'm allowed to ask my more capable staff to judge them! I should not be able to get a better picture of a player away from home. Imagine my surprise when one of them wasn't even scoutable because, though he's Italian, they sent him back to Brazil where I'm not allowed to scout. So the only way I'm allowed to look at him is to ship him to my club, but then I'm only allowed to have a mediocre coach judge him. I get the living in Brazil bit, sure, but overall the structure and unnecessary differentiation of reports based solely on who made them, etc is all just so arbitrary and counterintuitive it's ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
qDizzy Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Bumbed into this post.... Fiugured i just add some comments along the way From what i understand is once a player is in your team, his true stats are revield. So there shouldn't be a reason to scout the players in our team because we have their true attributes at hand. I am just going to throw this out there... Once a player is on trial at out club for a week or month, our judgement of the player should be pretty solid... Totally agree with you that the reports should be included.. Another though is they are adding social media to FM 2017... Ummm honestly in this day and age if i was a manager "assuming we have access to video games and youtube and actuall footage of games played across the league"... Lol i mean real managers use FM to identify players in real life.... I mean i can go online right now and use a FIFA video game website and filter players according to speed and stuff.... Dude i think FM should have some kind of background on players from almost every professional league and filter pretty quicky some players they may want to target.... Like they shoudent be totally clueless... At least some key words like.... The player is said to be fast mediocre finshing.. The scout can watch 5 full games of the player in 1 day and man i should have an idea within a day what type of player he is..... Lol... Love the game... Rooting for them to get this game right... I could imagine its alot of work... But i hope these threads with people posting their dis-likes and thoughts would really help them get things better... Cheers guys... Like the saying goes.... Well if we're at the park playing with a flat ball... Well its flat for all of us... Lol make da best of it... Good luck gaming yall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnip Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I have found that reports about half-decent players I've had on trial are filed by my scouts once they've left the club. I mean, it seems to be random who files the report and they don't show up in the regular update news items, but they're there if you look on Scout Reports. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Yeah, if you look in "scout reports" after leaving the club you should be able to find a report filed by one of your coaches. Also tend to find that quite a few attributes get uncovered as they leave the club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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