Very low number of created chances

[Bakiano]

Hello fm fellows,

 

I have problems with creating chances. You can see on screenshot, I am 19th at created chances. The first one have about 30, I want to play high possession, pressing football with more attacking minded play but also with stable defence. I have all of it, but I am not creating chances. 

 

PIs are:

SK(d): none

CWB(s): cross more often, close down less, mark tighter

BPD(d): none

CD(d): take fewer risks

FB(s): cross more often, cross from deep, run wide with the ball, close down less, mark tighter

DM(s): take fewer risks, dribble less, shoot less often, hold position

CM(a): Pass it shorter, take more risks, dribble more, move into channels, close down more

DLP(d): take more risks

IW(s): roam from position, close down more

IF(s): shoot more often, roam from position, stay wider, close down more

CF(a): close down more

 

 

Please, help me. I am playing FM20 beta.

[RTHerringbone]

The system is very, very restrained. There are no real attacking outlets other than Cristiano and that might be because you're focusing too much on possession to the extent that you compromise attacking movement. Watch your attacks develop and see how Ronaldo moves and how the supporting cast move. You'll see that he's largely isolated and often pushing too high up by himself and is disconnected from the team. You need to get them working closer together.

[Bakiano]

20 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

The system is very, very restrained. There are no real attacking outlets other than Cristiano and that might be because you're focusing too much on possession to the extent that you compromise attacking movement. Watch your attacks develop and see how Ronaldo moves and how the supporting cast move. You'll see that he's largely isolated and often pushing too high up by himself and is disconnected from the team. You need to get them working closer together.

Sometimes, I put Ronaldo on left and make him IF(a) and Higuain as a CF(s), but it is the same.

 

What do you suggest to change some roles?

[RTHerringbone]

I'd change some Duties to get more forward movement and consider easing off the possession oriented team instructions. You also need to watch matches and diagnose what the issue is, as you've just said "We aren't creating enough chances" - why not? What is the root cause?

[Bakiano]

6 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

I'd change some Duties to get more forward movement and consider easing off the possession oriented team instructions. You also need to watch matches and diagnose what the issue is, as you've just said "We aren't creating enough chances" - why not? What is the root cause?

Will try to put the right CM(a) into AMC position and play him as AM(a). 

 

And remove the work ball into box instruction.

 

Will see are there any changes.

[RTHerringbone]

You need to understand why you are making the changes you are making. Watch how your attacks evolve and don't just make changes for the sake of it.

[Robson 07]

2 hours ago, RTHerringbone said:

I'd change some Duties to get more forward movement and consider easing off the possession oriented team instructions.

Pretty sound I reckon.

[Experienced Defender]

On 02/11/2019 at 20:44, Bakiano said:

Given that you are managing a top team - and btw the strongest in Italy - I would definitely remove the following instructions:

- lower tempo

- hold shape

Because with shorter passing and play out of defence, your attacking build-ups are already patient (and possession-based) enough, so any instructions that slow the play further - such as low tempo and hold shape - will only make it easier for the already very defensive opposition to defend against you.  

On 02/11/2019 at 20:44, Bakiano said:

I want to play high possession

In that case, passing into space makes little sense. Plus, given Juve's reputation, it's highly unlikely that there will be enough space left by the opposition to pass into. Instead, you can use passing into space situationally. For example, when you get a lead and notice that the opposition are trying to attack you, you can drop the LOE slightly and add the "Pass into space" TI to try to take advantage of the space they are now leaving behind/between their lines). In such situations you can also add the Counter TI as an extra attacking weapon meant to exploit the newly more attack-minded opposition.

If you are struggling to break down the opposition and create chances (or score goals anyway), then an instruction I would consider adding is Be more expressive, so as to encourage more creativity and movement up front (which your players at Juve should have in abundance). 

I also don't understand why you opted to use the "Dribble less" TI with such a top team as Juve? Why would you want to deprive your players of a potentially very useful attacking weapon (assuming that Juve have great dribblers and technically gifted players overall) ???

In terms of roles and duties - your left flank looks too conservative, whereas the right one is needlessly risky (although the quality of Juve players might counter-balance that risk somewhat). 

Also, DM on defend (or HB) and DLP on support would make a lot more sense than the other way around IMHO (especially when you have a world-class playmaker like Pjanic).

 

[Bakiano]

9 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Given that you are managing a top team - and btw the strongest in Italy - I would definitely remove the following instructions:

- lower tempo

- hold shape

Because with shorter passing and play out of defence, your attacking build-ups are already patient (and possession-based) enough, so any instructions that slow the play further - such as low tempo and hold shape - will only make it easier for the already very defensive opposition to defend against you.  

I was thinking about speeding the tempo up and removed the hold shape option later and added Counter TI. So, will remove also Counter to see how they behave. Also added play through middle, but it is not so effective.

 

9 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In that case, passing into space makes little sense. Plus, given Juve's reputation, it's highly unlikely that there will be enough space left by the opposition to pass into. Instead, you can use passing into space situationally. For example, when you get a lead and notice that the opposition are trying to attack you, you can drop the LOE slightly and add the "Pass into space" TI to try to take advantage of the space they are now leaving behind/between their lines). In such situations you can also add the Counter TI as an extra attacking weapon meant to exploit the newly more attack-minded opposition.

90% teams I play against are parking the bus so it is logical to remove the option. But will try to add it when I have the lead.

 

9 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

If you are struggling to break down the opposition and create chances (or score goals anyway), then an instruction I would consider adding is Be more expressive, so as to encourage more creativity and movement up front (which your players at Juve should have in abundance). 

I had so many TIs added in transition, so to add this TI I thought it would be too high. 

9 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I also don't understand why you opted to use the "Dribble less" TI with such a top team as Juve? Why would you want to deprive your players of a potentially very useful attacking weapon (assuming that Juve have great dribblers and technically gifted players overall) ???

Well, I just wanted to have high possession, to have the ball most of the time so I added all the TIs to have high possession but I was all doing wrong. Couple of games I just loaded the default Gegenpress tactic, changed just roles of some positions and had about +65%. 

 

10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In terms of roles and duties - your left flank looks too conservative, whereas the right one is needlessly risky (although the quality of Juve players might counter-balance that risk somewhat). 

Also, DM on defend (or HB) and DLP on support would make a lot more sense than the other way around IMHO (especially when you have a world-class playmaker like Pjanic).

Usually Dybala and Higuain are playing as CF(s) and Ronaldo as a left IF(a). Both fullbacks changed to FB(s). I planned that the left winger would be the main goalscorer, the right winger the creator and the striker combination of goalscorer and creator.

 

I wanted to play with DMC at away games and against stronger opponents and with AMC when I play at home or against teams that I suspect they will park the bus. So when I play with attacking trio in midfield is this a good option:

     AP(a)

CM(d) DLP(s)

 

And thank you very much for all these advices, I am not good at tactics as you can see because I always downloaded tactics from others and I this FM I want to make my own tactic. I know that I am playing with a very strong team but want to have a good tactic so when I play with less stronger teams, I will tweak it.

[pheelf]

I encourage you to please watch your games in full for a while and make notes on what your players are actually doing in each phase of play (attacking, attacking to defending transition, defending to attacking transition, defending). Not only will that help you to gain a better understanding of tactics it will make the advice others can offer more concise and relevant to the specific problems you have. As it stands, the advice is very general and theory based because you haven't provided anything which can lead to a more in depth analysis.

You should only make changes based on what you SEE not on theory which @RTHerringbone correctly points out. If you are having difficulty interpreting what you are observing then posting some .pkms on here could help you.

As you want to create a tactic of your own, watching matches is the only way which you are going to learn how to find a balance. You have to move away from the mindset of looking to others to provide the answers (downloaded tactics) if you are to improve at creating tactics. If you still become stuck after trying to analyze the games then at least you have more specific information you can then use to ask for help.

Also, please remove a lot of the TIs and PIs and start from base principles (formation, roles and duties, mentality). It makes no sense to select a load of instructions when trying to get to grips with the basics of tactic creation as it just adds unnecessary confusion.

The more variables you have to consider the harder it becomes to work out which one is causing problems. In the end, you could end up in a loop of circular thinking and make no progress at all. Try to keep it as simple as you can until you gain enough confidence to add further complexity, not the other way around.

Best of luck

[Bakiano]

1 hour ago, pheelf said:

I encourage you to please watch your games in full for a while and make notes on what your players are actually doing in each phase of play (attacking, attacking to defending transition, defending to attacking transition, defending). Not only will that help you to gain a better understanding of tactics it will make the advice others can offer more concise and relevant to the specific problems you have. As it stands, the advice is very general and theory based because you haven't provided anything which can lead to a more in depth analysis.

You should only make changes based on what you SEE not on theory which @RTHerringbone correctly points out. If you are having difficulty interpreting what you are observing then posting some .pkms on here could help you.

As you want to create a tactic of your own, watching matches is the only way which you are going to learn how to find a balance. You have to move away from the mindset of looking to others to provide the answers (downloaded tactics) if you are to improve at creating tactics. If you still become stuck after trying to analyze the games then at least you have more specific information you can then use to ask for help.

Also, please remove a lot of the TIs and PIs and start from base principles (formation, roles and duties, mentality). It makes no sense to select a load of instructions when trying to get to grips with the basics of tactic creation as it just adds unnecessary confusion.

The more variables you have to consider the harder it becomes to work out which one is causing problems. In the end, you could end up in a loop of circular thinking and make no progress at all. Try to keep it as simple as you can until you gain enough confidence to add further complexity, not the other way around.

Best of luck

First of all, thank you for your advice. I watched couple games in full mode and kind a knew where I was wrong. But as you said, I have too many TIs and PIs. I was always thinking, more TIs and PIs the better the tactic but appaerently I was wrong.

 

Whenever I am making a tactic, I just pump a lot of unnecesery TIs and PIs.

[Johnny Ace]

31 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

Whenever I am making a tactic, I just pump a lot of unnecesery TIs and PIs.

Start with none then add as you go along in matches based on what you see & want 

[Bakiano]

16 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Start with none then add as you go along in matches based on what you see & want 

Added now just a few of them and making changes when I am into 10-15min in the game to see how the opponent is playing. Last night played against Fiorentina, they were using high pressing 352 tactic. Two very fast attackers, fast wingbacks and in the midfield there were two bbm and dm. Somehow it finished 0-0 but I was lucky that I didn't lose the match.

 

 

[Nikopol]

Am 2.11.2019 um 21:37 schrieb Bakiano:

Sometimes, I put Ronaldo on left and make him IF(a) and Higuain as a CF(s), but it is the same.

 

What do you suggest to change some roles?

Even if results aren't immediate, a supporting role for the striker in a 4-3-3 is generally the best path, as otherwise he will grow too isolated in attack and waste posession when he is given the ball. The 4-3-3 is very good to create a variety of attacking threats from full backs, wingers and center midfield

[Bakiano]

Just want to say, that I learned some new things from you guys and that I dont have no more problems, I think, with creating chances.

 

But I will stop playing beta until the full release because I made a new save with RB Leipzig and played with attacking 442 tactic where I have about 5-6 clear cut chances where my striker dont score any of them.

 

Thank you guys!