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Solid from the back 451 tactic

andrjam48

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Mr Hough

Mr Hough

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Nice Little tactic this, Creates alot of chances but i think alot of the seem to be rushed and end up off target. This problem wouldn't need tweaking much maybe tempo slower to try and make them not rush the shot.

COuld also take the long shots off the mid players and the wingers see if that helps keep the striker off target ratio down.

The defence is awesome though which i'm surprised and i'd like to know the reason behind some of the settings like why have you not put tight marking on the central defenders well on any player for that matter. And what is your theory behind man marking as you seem to prefer that to zonal?

All in all though a really nice winger formation tactic and a great contribution to the communtiy, Well done amberjam

Dave

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Nice Little tactic this, Creates alot of chances but i think alot of the seem to be rushed and end up off target. This problem wouldn't need tweaking much maybe tempo slower to try and make them not rush the shot.

COuld also take the long shots off the mid players and the wingers see if that helps keep the striker off target ratio down.

The defence is awesome though which i'm surprised and i'd like to know the reason behind some of the settings like why have you not put tight marking on the central defenders well on any player for that matter. And what is your theory behind man marking as you seem to prefer that to zonal?

All in all though a really nice winger formation tactic and a great contribution to the communtiy, Well done amberjam

Dave

Im humbled to be honest your the reason why I decided to figure out how to use or create tactics in the first place Mr Hough as you tactics (classic for some reason i really hate looking at the way the new tactics look i like the arrows etc yes I know I`m just plain odd :D)

Your tactics the 433 ones got my Swansea side into the premier and id won the champions league in 3 years :eek:

Then I was a bit gutted after the elation had worn off as I kept thinking you had done it for me basically all I had done is pressed the space bar etc and read the commentary so I read every single post of your`s also trawled the forums for advice on how to set up tactics and so began my long often infuriating discovery of tactic making

I put this tactic up more for advice than praise so was totally shocked with some of the posts it started getting :)

With regards to zonal marking I ALWAYS seemed to get carved open with through balls between my two central defenders and putting it on tight marking seemed to make the matter worse.

Man marking just seemed to be better at cutting these problems out (could well be that im not well educated enough about closing down settings though)

Ive got the wingers on easy tackling as i dont want them to attempt tackles as such just chase the attackers all the way back and be an annoyance to any crosses or passes they attempted

Tight marking well to be honest I figured the closing down on all From the MC`s to the strikers is pretty high so they would be on top of the players anyhow so just never ticked it on anyone

TIght marking on Central defenders never really tried it to be fair ill look into it further

Anything else you can see that needs improving Mr Hough I would be extremely grateful for any further comments from you good self mate

Mr Hough Im sure many more people would agree when I say many many thanks for the helpful posts and time you spend helping people out on many topics

Sir you are a legend

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Mr Hough

Mr Hough

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Im humbled to be honest your the reason why I decided to figure out how to use or create tactics in the first place Mr Hough as you tactics (classic for some reason i really hate looking at the way the new tactics look i like the arrows etc yes I know I`m just plain odd :D)

Your tactics the 433 ones got my Swansea side into the premier and id won the champions league in 3 years :eek:

Then I was a bit gutted after the elation had worn off as I kept thinking you had done it for me basically all I had done is pressed the space bar etc and read the commentary so I read every single post of your`s also trawled the forums for advice on how to set up tactics and so began my long often infuriating discovery of tactic making

I put this tactic up more for advice than praise so was totally shocked with some of the posts it started getting :)

With regards to zonal marking I ALWAYS seemed to get carved open with through balls between my two central defenders and putting it on tight marking seemed to make the matter worse.

Man marking just seemed to be better at cutting these problems out (could well be that im not well educated enough about closing down settings though)

Ive got the wingers on easy tackling as i dont want them to attempt tackles as such just chase the attackers all the way back and be an annoyance to any crosses or passes they attempted

Tight marking well to be honest I figured the closing down on all From the MC`s to the strikers is pretty high so they would be on top of the players anyhow so just never ticked it on anyone

TIght marking on Central defenders never really tried it to be fair ill look into it further

Anything else you can see that needs improving Mr Hough I would be extremely grateful for any further comments from you good self mate

Mr Hough Im sure many more people would agree when I say many many thanks for the helpful posts and time you spend helping people out on many topics

Sir you are a legend

Wow what a compliment i wasn't expecting that at all, Thanks so much for trying your own way and tweaks because it is really hard to understand what to do with the sliders and things but with patience and some logical thinking it can be acheived like you have certainly done here.

"Ive got the wingers on easy tackling as i dont want them to attempt tackles as such just chase the attackers all the way back and be an annoyance to any crosses or passes they attempted "

I think the above statement says it all because you are thinking about how you want your team to play what what you want your players to do, Thats exactly how i set my tactics up i don't just put sliders anywhere theres a reason behind it like you have shown here.

The things i've commented on are just observations really if it's working for you and others then theres no need to change it, The old "If it ain't broke don't fix it" motto.

Seriously though i'm delighted that you have took it upon yourself to try and make the tactic better you have definatly succeded and all credit to you for that.

Dave.

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headshotbg

headshotbg

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Nice tactic, gave it a fast try with west brom. Bought a lot ot young future stars though. Got promoted 1st season, 13th in Premier League in the second, gave a late challenge for the title in the 3rd season, but finished in 3rd behind Man City and Chelsea (two teams that have dominated the league).

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Flohrinho

Flohrinho

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This tactic is insane. I tweaked the defenders a bit and went for a slower tempo but used your core to get to 21 games won in a row in the PL in my second season with Manchester United. Players I bought are: Gourcuff, Neuer and Rodwell in my first season, Toni Kroos, Holger Badstuber, Chris Smalling and Hernandez in my second season. So I bought no stars and no player over the age of 22 apart from Neuer and still I'm ripping the league apart. Absolutly the best tactic for me these days.

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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not had much time to play FM due to the Mrs keeping me busy so hopefully soon can get back to seeing if i can improve the tactic in anyway

@Flohrinho thanks for the kind words mate what tweaks did you make to the defence if I may ask?

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Flohrinho

Flohrinho

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not had much time to play FM due to the Mrs keeping me busy so hopefully soon can get back to seeing if i can improve the tactic in anyway

@Flohrinho thanks for the kind words mate what tweaks did you make to the defence if I may ask?

I basicaly used the settings form Mr. Houghs tactics. I gave both centerhalves different closing down settings that fit their mentality and also put the player with the more offensive closing down and mentality on man marking while I have the more defensive defender to zonal marking.

The reasoning behind this is, as far as I can remember, that you have one defender who pushes up more to interrupt strikers form receiving the ball while the other defender covers for him. Usually you need to let the faster defender take over the covering part and the more aggressive defender take on players early.

That's basically all I changed in defence.

With team settings I changed the tempo to one tick above slow and the width to the same amount of mentality. Everything else I left untouched apart from changing my standard settings where I gave one defender the "challange keeper" setting and the one that is better with headers the attack far post. I then set in team settings the corners to "far post".

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gav1979

gav1979

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I basicaly used the settings form Mr. Houghs tactics. I gave both centerhalves different closing down settings that fit their mentality and also put the player with the more offensive closing down and mentality on man marking while I have the more defensive defender to zonal marking.

The reasoning behind this is, as far as I can remember, that you have one defender who pushes up more to interrupt strikers form receiving the ball while the other defender covers for him. Usually you need to let the faster defender take over the covering part and the more aggressive defender take on players early.

That's basically all I changed in defence.

With team settings I changed the tempo to one tick above slow and the width to the same amount of mentality. Everything else I left untouched apart from changing my standard settings where I gave one defender the "challange keeper" setting and the one that is better with headers the attack far post. I then set in team settings the corners to "far post".

you using any oi's mate,i have been using this tactic with man utd not creating many ccc'c though and starting to leak a few goals in

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dakin116

dakin116

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This tactic was good but I'm going with my own 4-4-2. The thing that bugs me is that my striker plays like absolute ***** with this tactic regularly getting below a 6.0, yet when I play him in a 4-4-2 he gets above 8.0 with regularity. He's top class so I'm not so sure its him. Good tactic if you can find a striker that works with it.

This is my guy when he was at dortmund playing in a 4-4-2

http://img251.imageshack.us/i/glucio2.png/

my other strikers play like ***** as well with this

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Flohrinho

Flohrinho

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not had much time to play FM due to the Mrs keeping me busy so hopefully soon can get back to seeing if i can improve the tactic in anyway

@Flohrinho thanks for the kind words mate what tweaks did you make to the defence if I may ask?

you using any oi's mate,i have been using this tactic with man utd not creating many ccc'c though and starting to leak a few goals in

No I don't used any OI's so far I didn't see any reason to do so as my team defended very well. I only conceded 11 goals in 26 games in my second season. I usually play Vidic as my right defender which is the one that pushes up higher to get to the strikers as soon as the receive the ball and Ferdinand is covering due to his better positioning, pace and acceleration.

As far as the striker problem goes you need to have at least one midfielder who is a very good passer to supply your striker with good through balls. Also a striker who is fast and good at the header helps a lot. Rooney is just perfect for that though I have given Rooney 15 in terms of heading since he dramatically improved his heading this season which isn't reflected in the game so far.

Other then that you might want to try the "roaming from position" option, more through balls and less running with the ball when your striker seams isolated. This way he will play more passes to the wingers.

Also this tactic needs a bit more time for players to get used to in my experience then Mr. Houghs tactics. It took my team a good 10-15 games before they really started going with this tactic.

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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been quite busy mate:mad:

Spent a few hours tryin a few things with everton got it quite sweet if u scroll up you can see the 5games i played screen shot i think i ended up playing about 13 games and conceeded about5 goals from open play but it was so late i was really tired and turned the game off without saving the bloody tactic lol:eek:

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Boysie

Boysie

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hi,

firstly great tactic, one question though, why do my players get tired so quickly, im Everton using tugs training, and i cant remember my players starting a game 100%... Is it the formation or the training?

thanks

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Quick update on the latest tactic I posted after 20 games in the league I think besides Chelsea giving me a right old hammering 4-0 all their goals where 30 yard screamers within the first 35 minutes , i im sitting in 7th place and just made it through the group stages of the champions league ( valencia , OB and Galatasry) in 1st place with 4 wins and 2 draws :thup:

In the league though the tactic seems to do well against teams that im not as good as but when i came up against weaker sides like Bristol City who are bottom of the league when i played them they beat me 1-0 where i had 70% possesion but hardly any CCC or shots on goal so i think im going to go back to my old tactic and refine it more and use the counter attacking tactic as a shut up shop or just to run games out where i am winner but under pressure

Will post the two tactics up later and some other stuff :)

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uclazy31

uclazy31

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What i really like about this tactic that i have not been able to reproduce on my own is actually defending above the half line. i have really wanted to create a high pressure tactic that doesnt really let the opposition press on me as much and none of the settings i have tried have made it work. no matter how high the line or the mentality or closing when i use the new tactical designer it doesnt work. i noticed that this tactic was designed in the classic style, do you think that this makes a huge difference?

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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What i really like about this tactic that i have not been able to reproduce on my own is actually defending above the half line. i have really wanted to create a high pressure tactic that doesnt really let the opposition press on me as much and none of the settings i have tried have made it work. no matter how high the line or the mentality or closing when i use the new tactical designer it doesnt work. i noticed that this tactic was designed in the classic style, do you think that this makes a huge difference?

Use the TC as a good starting point then swap it to classic thats what I do anyway :thup:

For some unknown reason I hate looking at the tactic screen with the new tactic creator symbols on it much prefer the arrows of old :confused:

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Stevo_1967

Stevo_1967

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Andrjam, tried to create my own 451 formation while stumbling opon this thread. Don't have an Internet connection at the moment (iPhone to read the forum) so I'm unable to download your tactic to compare.

Just a question regarding the mentalities of the players using your tactic. I've started an Estudiantes career in Argentina (good league for nice football) Created 451 formation with veron as the playmaker right of the mc's. Conceded more goals than I would have hoped for. I've struggled to setup the correct settings for my CB's. What mentality have you given the CB's and MC's? I've set the CB's to man mark, tight marking no, no runs, men 8, Closing down 12

any advice would be great

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Andrjam, tried to create my own 451 formation while stumbling opon this thread. Don't have an Internet connection at the moment (iPhone to read the forum) so I'm unable to download your tactic to compare.

Just a question regarding the mentalities of the players using your tactic. I've started an Estudiantes career in Argentina (good league for nice football) Created 451 formation with veron as the playmaker right of the mc's. Conceded more goals than I would have hoped for. I've struggled to setup the correct settings for my CB's. What mentality have you given the CB's and MC's? I've set the CB's to man mark, tight marking no, no runs, men 8, Closing down 12

any advice would be great

Hey steve Im away for the weekend so cant look at my tactic but im sure the its man marking on all players besides the front three, if my defenders are up against slowish forwards i just have tight marking on the 2 centerbacks but when im up against any fast strikers i take it off.

the mentalitys of the 2 centrebacks are 6 or 8 i think mate with the fullbacks being just one or two notches higher and i always set the closing down of the centerbacks the same as thier mentalitys or 1 or 2 notches either side with everything set to rarely and the creative freedom really low

regarding the fullbacks i find even if you tell them to do everything rarely the still get forward quite often so i set run with ball in the middle and everything else rarely , cross from deep

If your using a DM mate try setting his mentality a few notches above the center backs and tell him to close down a few notches higher than your centerbacks so he creates a barrier in front of them so dosent get sucked into the back four and holds his position in front of them

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Daffie

Daffie

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Man oh man, this is some GREAT tactic I have to say.

Using the original one you posted and made some smaller tweaks along the way (dropped def. line a little bit and dropped mentality/CD of the defensive 4 abit along with it). Also dropped tempo abit I think, but like I said all very small changes actually.

I started with Tottenham. First season I won the premier division while the board wanted a first half league position or something :D (which I pushed up to Eur. Qualification through the league to get more money).

Second season I retained the title and was more solid in the back getting the best defence in the league. I also was runner-up in FA Cup losing on penalties and getting to the QF in the CL losing against Barca 4-3 on aggregate :(

For the third season I managed to buy Aguerro so I am ready to make a champions league challenge now. Also my stadium is getting expanded with 16.000 seats! (first season expanded with 2000 seats).

Will post some screenshots of the league positions later.

Thx for the great tactic andrjam48, the thing I like most is how both MC's get involved in the action all the time!

EDIT: another thing I noticed about this tactic is that it scores alot from corners. Averaging more than 1 goal every 2 matches. I looked at how it is set up and I noticed you have set almost everything at "default", something I never did. Seems to make a huge difference, although I notice in the repeats almost every goal comes from the short option so it is kinda using the corner exploit I think. But in the team instructions it is set as mixed so we can not help it, right? :p

I think it is also due to the fact that this tactic creates alot of changes and because of that also alot of corners.

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Man oh man, this is some GREAT tactic I have to say.

Using the original one you posted and made some smaller tweaks along the way (dropped def. line a little bit and dropped mentality/CD of the defensive 4 abit along with it). Also dropped tempo abit I think, but like I said all very small changes actually.

I started with Tottenham. First season I won the premier division while the board wanted a first half league position or something :D (which I pushed up to Eur. Qualification through the league to get more money).

Second season I retained the title and was more solid in the back getting the best defence in the league. I also was runner-up in FA Cup losing on penalties and getting to the QF in the CL losing against Barca 4-3 on aggregate :(

For the third season I managed to buy Aguerro so I am ready to make a champions league challenge now. Also my stadium is getting expanded with 16.000 seats! (first season expanded with 2000 seats).

Will post some screenshots of the league positions later.

Thx for the great tactic andrjam48, the thing I like most is how both MC's get involved in the action all the time!

EDIT: another thing I noticed about this tactic is that it scores alot from corners. Averaging more than 1 goal every 2 matches. I looked at how it is set up and I noticed you have set almost everything at "default", something I never did. Seems to make a huge difference, although I notice in the repeats almost every goal comes from the short option so it is kinda using the corner exploit I think. But in the team instructions it is set as mixed so we can not help it, right? :p

I think it is also due to the fact that this tactic creates alot of changes and because of that also alot of corners.

ive also noticed the goals from corners are usually the same which annoys me as everything connected to attacking set pieces was left as default but i think with the original tactic i was getting ALOT of corners sometimes upto 20 corners a game so taking that into consideration 1 goal every other game was something like 1 goal per 15 corners so not to ME exploiting i think im glad it worked so well for you mate gratz on europe aswell

The changes you made are basically what are included in the latest tactic lowered the tempo

lowered the d line to about 12 i think given the defenders more direct passing, matched the centerbacks closing down to thier mentalitys which i think is around 6 or 8

would be great if you tried out the latest tactic mate and let me know how you find it compared to the 1st one

also slightly altered the inside forwards and the left cm is more attacking in that he runs with the ball alot let me know how it goes for you mate

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Stevo_1967

Stevo_1967

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Thanks for the reply andrjam! Your info has helped. I've lost alot of goals from wide players getting crosses to the box. Switching my full backs from zonal to man mark might help me stop the supply of the cross, making the team face less danger

I notcied in one of your earlier replies in the thread. you've altered your wide players setttings to cut in more and help the lone striker? I've faced this problem with my 4-5-1 setup. My players are setup in the exact formation as your tactic. I've realised that if the striker gets isolated and isn't playing very well, my team struggles to create chances. I've changed the aml & amr to wide play cut inside, slighty more creative freedom, so they try and beat the opponents full back and either attempt a thru ball or have a strike on goal. What settings do you put on your wide players?

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Thanks for the reply andrjam! Your info has helped. I've lost alot of goals from wide players getting crosses to the box. Switching my full backs from zonal to man mark might help me stop the supply of the cross, making the team face less danger

I notcied in one of your earlier replies in the thread. you've altered your wide players setttings to cut in more and help the lone striker? I've faced this problem with my 4-5-1 setup. My players are setup in the exact formation as your tactic. I've realised that if the striker gets isolated and isn't playing very well, my team struggles to create chances. I've changed the aml & amr to wide play cut inside, slighty more creative freedom, so they try and beat the opponents full back and either attempt a thru ball or have a strike on goal. What settings do you put on your wide players?

inside forwards i set to cut inside , run with ball often through balls often or in the middle of the slider , cross ball set to rarely , creative freedom just above mentality so they attack with the ball more.

the striker is a few notches lower than the aml/r depending on wether you want a michael owen type striker who will hang on the shoulders of the defenders and beat them for pace set him to run with ball often and through balls rarely or if you want your forward to drop deeper and help build attacks from further infield set him to roam from position through balls often and run with ball rarely but you need to have more attacking midfielders with this to work

also bare in mind you could have the most perfect settings for your back four but if your midfielders arent helping close down threats then your defence will be overrun

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Stevo_1967

Stevo_1967

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Yeah I've checked the team settings for my side and had a look at the screenshots, you put up of your original tactic. I've set the team closing down to a pretty similar level. Wingers and striker are on zonal, easy tackling. I've the set the 2 centre mids on a high closing down around 16, both man mark. the DMC on 12 or 13 so he's sits a little deeper than the MC's. The high closing down means the players are tiring very quickly, il be looking to replace half the team with fitter stronger players in the close season

When I get my Internet connection established I hope to download your tactic, and have look at the individual settings of your players etc. Thanks for the info mate, your advice has been appreciated

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Yeah I've checked the team settings for my side and had a look at the screenshots, you put up of your original tactic. I've set the team closing down to a pretty similar level. Wingers and striker are on zonal, easy tackling. I've the set the 2 centre mids on a high closing down around 16, both man mark. the DMC on 12 or 13 so he's sits a little deeper than the MC's. The high closing down means the players are tiring very quickly, il be looking to replace half the team with fitter stronger players in the close season

When I get my Internet connection established I hope to download your tactic, and have look at the individual settings of your players etc. Thanks for the info mate, your advice has been appreciated

no problem mate my team manage to cope with the demands of the high closing down as they are all young with good levels of stamina if you need anything else just ask and ill try and help out :thup:

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Yasko75

Yasko75

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I have the latest tactic, its a wonderfull tactic if you have a good team. I use the "counter" tactic against better teams and push if i have to win a game late in the games.

But i do have problem when i lead away agains stronger teams, does anyone have advice or alternative 4-5-1 when the team is outplayed and have to defend a lead? My current team is Besiktas, so i dont have problem in the league, but away against strong team i struggle a lot. Yeah, i know i cant win every game against those teams, but it would be good with a very defensive tactic which gives you al better chance to survive.

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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I have the latest tactic, its a wonderfull tactic if you have a good team. I use the "counter" tactic against better teams and push if i have to win a game late in the games.

But i do have problem when i lead away agains stronger teams, does anyone have advice or alternative 4-5-1 when the team is outplayed and have to defend a lead? My current team is Besiktas, so i dont have problem in the league, but away against strong team i struggle a lot. Yeah, i know i cant win every game against those teams, but it would be good with a very defensive tactic which gives you al better chance to survive.

Maybe drop the tempo and raise the time wasting , drop the aml/r back into the midfield line so its more of a 4-1-4-1 formation see how that goes mate

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