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Solid from the back 451 tactic

andrjam48

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neilez2

neilez2

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Almost half a season played with the following defensive set up:

Fullback's mark the posts.

The Centre Backs mark tall players.

The two smallest/quickest players, stay forward.

Remaining players should man mark. 4 of them man marking in total.

Seems to be going well so far.

Attacking set up. I've tried to copy what I think the AI does to me with deep corners:

Corners set to far post

One centre back (presuming they are good in the air) stands on the far post

The other centre back attacks the far post.

A player with good strength to challenge the GK

Next best in the air attacks the near post

Best long shots and first touch as lurker

Everyone else default

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Just finished the season was extremely close finish between me and Man Utd with me needing to win at Man City if Man utd were to get a result at stoke .

And as the first half finished it was not looking good man utd where 4-0 up at stoke and i was 2-0 down at man city ..... until this happened

out of desparation i went all out attack and got a penalty and then managed to get a 2nd to bring it level with the clock counting down and just seconds left i needed to get a goal if i was to lift the premier league trophey

14bmglw.jpg

i nearly fell off my chair !!!!!!!!!!

CHAMPIONS!!!! and we also won the league cup :)

but in all honesty the only down fall was the points we dropped in the 8 games we drew and the damn corners i reckon i shipped in at least 10 goals from corners...

but with the defensive corner set up sorted with the set up im using now i have gone over 50 corners without letting one in

sw36u0.jpg

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thegooner

thegooner

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ok mate which version are you using buddy forst of all ?

the first one i used in the championship with swansea and the latest one is more for a better class of team (although i have not tested it lower than the premier league)

Using your original version from post 1 which seems ages ago :-)

I was actually thinking of using the settings and implementing them into the wizard as then able to use the shouts etc, the the original version is based on the classic style tactic, would this still work?

Also i do concede goals but this is down to only having an average defence with Huddersfield so no fault of the tactic there still convinced its due to the 2 stars in tactic training area, as when the oppersition play a ball down eother flank my centre back and full back chase the same ball causing huge gaps which they exploit, otherwise a very solid tactic.

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Using your original version from post 1 which seems ages ago :-)

I was actually thinking of using the settings and implementing them into the wizard as then able to use the shouts etc, the the original version is based on the classic style tactic, would this still work?

Also i do concede goals but this is down to only having an average defence with Huddersfield so no fault of the tactic there still convinced its due to the 2 stars in tactic training area, as when the oppersition play a ball down eother flank my centre back and full back chase the same ball causing huge gaps which they exploit, otherwise a very solid tactic.

I think when using the tactic creator and you actually tick any individual player sliders and alter them then the shouts dont change anything if you see what i mean they will stay the same no matter what strategy or shouts you use mate

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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great set of results there mate !!

what tweaks etc do you make mate?

Did you alter the base tactic much?

Things i found helpful were

Hold onto a lead move the amr/l back into mr/l position

moving the d/line up and lowering the width down a few notches if playing a team with a AMC in the formation

Would really like to know what if anything you changed during the season !!:thup:

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Management

Management

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I just started a Chelsea save from 2014.. (Started 5 years in holidaying :p)

Looking at my roster I decided to go for a 4-5-1 tactic and thought I;d give yours a try...

So these are my results (up to /01Sept/2014)

3-0 vs Chelsea Res. (I use it as a trial game so teams are relatively spread even)

5-1 vs Legia. Expected the win but not by so much.

3-0 vs Charlton Trialed a couple of variations on your tactics.

After the pre-season I think I managed to get my instructions to how I see my squad playing better.

1-0 vs West Ham. I think the adjustment to the new instructions may have affected this result.

3-0 vs Birmingham. We played like we wanted it... Added a couple more tweeks.

2-0 vs Stoke. No pre-match adjustments made, looked good

Admittedly they're not the toughest of competition but it was a great way to asses my final tactical decision.

These are the changes I have made (As a preference)

*The only MAJOR change would be pushing the DM into a CM position but keeping the back-arrow.

*I moved the D line back a couple of clicks.

*I moved the Longs shots slider to "sometimes" for the wingers and t outside CM as I was sick of them passing the ball back to the CB instead of shooting from 20 yrds.

*I used the Strikers adjustments you suggested on the 2nd page.

And the "hold your lead" changes on the previous pages.

9of my starting 11 have an average rating of over 7.00

So I'm happy with it so far...

I'm not sure as to how it should be adjusted for away games, if at all...

Any suggestions?

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neilez2

neilez2

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After, what I would consider, great success at Besiktas I decided to test this with my beloved Partick Thistle. They have no money to spend and are predicted to finish 3rd but have the oldest and slowest squad in the league. The Scottish First Division is very difficult with the likes of Dundee, Inverness Caley Thistle and Queen of the South.

Final League Table

Home Record

Away Record

As the original Thistle squad is so poor I had to become Harry Redknapp and sign more players than anyone else in world football!

Transfers

Absolutely delighted to get a 'surprise' promotion.

I got the Mali international job and have won every game with them so far.

This is by no means a 'super' tactic, you won't win the league with poor players. It is a solid base from which to tweak as necessary and you must improve your squad at every available opportunity. I am very much enjoying FM 10 using this. I'll try to write down what tweaks I do and post them up.

I had my assistant manager handle team talks other than saying 'have faith' to individuals at halftime if they were performing well.

My assistant also managed the reserves and U'19s. The reserves won their league comfortably using the base 451 tactic and the U'19s did well finishing 3rd behind Rangers and Hibs.

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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try this corner set up mate 21 corners so far and no goals!!

2zir3o8.jpg

What defensive corner set up are you using then mate?

This one dont want to jinx it but no goals from corners thus far....

I just know that the first game i play now ill concede from a corner lol:p

Also i have put the team passing onto 10 mixed

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mrhairyman

mrhairyman

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Am Managing Zaragoza and Holland in 2016. Was doing well with Mr Hough's tactic, but have just taken over both teams, and neither have a wealth of strikers, but have lots of attacking mids. So I thought I'd look for a good 4-5-1.

1st Game: Croatia v HOLLAND: Lost 2-1, deserved to lose

2nd Game: Deportivo v ZARAGOZA: Drew 2-2 against 19th in the table side

3rd game: ZARAGOZA v Villareal: Won 3-2 - deserved win.

4th game: Murcia v ZARAGOZA: Lost 0-1 against 15th team

5th game: ZARAGOZA v Espanyol: lost 2-0 when I was 1-6 favourite to win

Obviously I know 5 games is not a lot to bed in, but I dont have faith that the results will turn around. This formation seems to either work for people or it doesn't. I'm not slagging it off as I nearly always rely on other peoples hard work, and I'm always curious to try out formations, but this hasn't worked for me. Bah.

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neilez2

neilez2

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Am Managing Zaragoza and Holland in 2016. Was doing well with Mr Hough's tactic, but have just taken over both teams, and neither have a wealth of strikers, but have lots of attacking mids. So I thought I'd look for a good 4-5-1.

1st Game: Croatia v HOLLAND: Lost 2-1, deserved to lose

2nd Game: Deportivo v ZARAGOZA: Drew 2-2 against 19th in the table side

3rd game: ZARAGOZA v Villareal: Won 3-2 - deserved win.

4th game: Murcia v ZARAGOZA: Lost 0-1 against 15th team

5th game: ZARAGOZA v Espanyol: lost 2-0 when I was 1-6 favourite to win

Obviously I know 5 games is not a lot to bed in, but I dont have faith that the results will turn around. This formation seems to either work for people or it doesn't. I'm not slagging it off as I nearly always rely on other peoples hard work, and I'm always curious to try out formations, but this hasn't worked for me. Bah.

I'm surprised by that mate, I really am.

I've never had a run of results like that with either Besiktas or Partick Thistle!

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andrjam48

andrjam48

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Am Managing Zaragoza and Holland in 2016. Was doing well with Mr Hough's tactic, but have just taken over both teams, and neither have a wealth of strikers, but have lots of attacking mids. So I thought I'd look for a good 4-5-1.

1st Game: Croatia v HOLLAND: Lost 2-1, deserved to lose

2nd Game: Deportivo v ZARAGOZA: Drew 2-2 against 19th in the table side

3rd game: ZARAGOZA v Villareal: Won 3-2 - deserved win.

4th game: Murcia v ZARAGOZA: Lost 0-1 against 15th team

5th game: ZARAGOZA v Espanyol: lost 2-0 when I was 1-6 favourite to win

Obviously I know 5 games is not a lot to bed in, but I dont have faith that the results will turn around. This formation seems to either work for people or it doesn't. I'm not slagging it off as I nearly always rely on other peoples hard work, and I'm always curious to try out formations, but this hasn't worked for me. Bah.

Sorry for the bad results mate have you tried both sets of tactics and implemented the defensive corner routine i suggested let me know where it falls flat for you and we can try and sort some of the issues out :thup:

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andrjam

andrjam

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This is andrjam my account is messed up since they changed the forum :mad:

So just completed my greatest ever season in FM history won all four trophys !!

avkn4g.jpg

Premier League

jre7eo.jpg

Only conceeding 17 goals!!!! personal best for me so i was well happy !!

could have sold my star striker for 60 million aswell if i had wanted to so thats like the biggest offer for one of my players ever playing fm haha

Actually got some good regens through this season aswell

my under 18 striker Glyn storrie went on loan to portsmouth in the championship and tore the league apart also got wonderkid

status !!!

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andrjam

andrjam

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Here some highlights from how this tactic plays I really enjoyed watching it this season

Overloading and interplay

f0tuu.jpg

Here you can see we have the ball out on the left wing and there are 4 players breaking into the box overloading the defence. Two of our players make crossing runs making it hard for the defenders to pick them up also the fullback (cicclred) is another passing option if the aml gets closed down

This is a constant with the tactic as players make various darting runs in attacking play pulling defenders out of position. Very good to watch.

Intelligent runs

2janj7q.jpg

see how the Striker (circled in blue)Drops off the centre-backs, laying the ball off and then making his move.

Banks of four

nxjmle.jpg

It was incredibly hard for teams to break us down. Like the pictures shows the team on the attack have little options or places to go

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polistus

polistus

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I downloaded your latest tactic (23/06/2010) and changed team passing to 10 (is it the tenth notch from the beginning?) and applied your new defensive corners setup. No more changes! I have high hopes for this tactic because the 4-5-1 tactic I used for some 20 games before was high-scoring but quite unstable: one day won 4-1, then lost 1-2, then again won and lost, won and lost... Thanks for making the tactic and I hope it will work for me as well. :)

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neilez2

neilez2

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End of 2010-2011 season update

Final League table

Home Record

Away Record

Transfer History

I was predicted to finish 2nd bottom. I was so close to getting a UEFA Cup spot through the league. Fortunately I had an easy Scottish Cup run and WON IT! Biggest team I faced was Aberdeen.

As my club rep is so low I have to sell on players at the end of each season to make profit, stadium can't be expanded and I'm running at a loss most months.

My weekly wage budget is the same as Celtic's top earning player!!!

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neilez2

neilez2

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End of 2011-2012 season update

Final League Table

Home Record

Away Record

Tranfer History

After my Scottish Cup win the previous season I only had one qualifier to play in the Europa League. I was drawn CSKA Moscow. Gutted. Their team was incredible! I was pleased with how I did but ultimately went out.

I held 2nd spot for a long time, which would have meant Champions League football but the Rangers and Celtic squads just proved too stong.

So I am delighted with how this tactic has performed for my Partick Thistle team. I am a very small club, overachieving. I've only signed 3 players for cash in all the seasons I've played and the players I've got are still of a 3 star standard.

*Sorry for the double post but I had difficulties viewing/writing on the bottom of the previous post.

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andrjam

andrjam

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ok mate i have not had a chance to upload the tactic with the better defensive corner routine but if you scroll up you will see what it is just change it to that and you will hardly concede from corners

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neilez2

neilez2

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If I'm playing a big team away and I'm the underdog I'll do the following:

Time wasting to middle

Defensive Line 2 nothces left to last notch of deep.

Full Back settings changed - Run from deep set to rarely, cross from set to deep, Wide play set to normal.

If I am really struggling I'll put the width on team settings to narrow.

If its raining:

Team settings, passing to 15, direct.

If I'm at home against a tough opponent:

Time wasting to middle.

If I score, I'll change the Full Back settings as above.

To hold onto a lead, 75-90mins:

Time wasting to max.

Width to last notch of narrow.

Full Back settings as above.

Defensive Line to last notch of deep.

I forgot to mention that I've been the USA manager for the past couple of seasons. Really enjoying it. Using the same tactics and tips as listed above. I've qualified for the 2014 World Cup and I won the Gold Cup against Mexico, a far superior opponent.

Freddy Adu is immense as the AML!

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neilez2

neilez2

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Any signs of this tactic getting cracked???

What do you mean cracked?

I just won the 2014 World Cup as 33-1 outsiders USA!!! Beating Brazil and Argentina on the way. Get in!

Used the 4-5-1 with Direct passing and using the tips I posted above.

World Cup Fixtures

Team

As you can see the defence is pretty poor.

Altidore won the golden boot scoring 8 goals! He was immense as the striker.

Donovan played wide right and cut in, with Adu going wide as the AML.

The assistant manager doesn't seem to offer 'opposition instruction' advice for me at International level. I've always used them before, so I'll see what effect it has not using them with my Partick Thistle team.

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neilez2

neilez2

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I've just played a game with the biggest odds against me so far in my career.

Season 2014-15 vs Genoa away in the Champions League Group stage.

After the success of not using 'opposition instructions' with my USA team I tried it in this game.

vs Genoa

I dropped the defensive line to the last of deep.

I put time wasting to middle.

I put width to middle.

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neilez2

neilez2

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You want to use the latest version, make sure you have the passing on direct (mentioned earlier on this page I think).

Both Andrjam and I posted defensive corner setups. Use either and you should be fine.

Don't use OI's either. It seems to make the attacking much more potent.

Look forward to hearing how you are getting on.

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shaunwwfc

shaunwwfc

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I am still using the first version of this tactic. Does anyone strongly recommend the 2nd version over the first? When looking at it, i wasn't keen on the huge difference between the two wingers, i didn't like it and it didn't make sense to me. What are the differences in play? Why are the wingers set up the way they are??

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dking

dking

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Have I missed what stats you need for players? If not, what stats should players have for there positions?

With the greatest of respect, guys, I think you should have a lot more info on the OP if you want more people to get involved.

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neilez2

neilez2

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Have I missed what stats you need for players? If not, what stats should players have for there positions?

With the greatest of respect, guys, I think you should have a lot more info on the OP if you want more people to get involved.

I just use the basic filters that are mentioned in the booklet that comes with the game.

I've had both target men and fast strikers work.

Left CM has to be a good passer of the ball, as does the DM who has a lot of the ball.

I've got more updates coming on my use of this tactic. Playing in New Zealand at the moment.

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andrjam

andrjam

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first off sorry for the delay in replies but i have just moved house and i wont have the bloody internet for around another 2 weeks ....

i have staggered the mc and aml/r instructions to try and confuse the AI defense , also if you look at the mentalitys its in layers so the formation retains a good shape and areas of the pitch are covered at all times from the AI attacking into space

also you will see if you watch the game highlights when using this tactic the aml and rcm are more inclined to attack and as such pull the opponents defence out of position for the lcm and amr to run into to cause havoc

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