Is the FM series fast becoming 'The Sims - Football edition'

[GeordieG1971]

Strange, I played just last night and there was an actual football game. Also I bought and sold a few players.

Well it's hardly just me having these problems. Feel free to do a search on transfer problems or offer play to clubs. Yes i know there is a football game there...and i do like the vast majority of the game. I just feel that some things are very poorly implemented.

I'm not here to bad mouth people, or SI, or the game. I'm merely pointing out my opinions and dissapoinment of some aspects of an otherwise wonderful game.

[Kyouya]

OP's comments ere funny, but far from describing the situation here.

Players go to their bosses regarding these kind of situations every single day. A player is unhappy from the lack of discipline, and you've got the chance to talk to him. What's wrong here? Even in regular day of non-football managers you see people talking about issues like salaries, etc.

The system is far from flawless and reminds me of a "quiz show" as someone suggested above. The idea is good, but I'll wait for proper implementation.

Btw, if you want marriage and stuff you can always play FIFA Manager. It's got stuff like that.

[Deejaydoubleyou]

Possibly the best ever OP! Not only was it funny but I would love to play the game!

[Sad Git]

Strange, I played just last night and there was an actual football game. Also I bought and sold a few players.

God, boring! Why do you want to play a game like that?

[ARSENAL]

Hats off to the OP, brilliant post and captures exactly all the problems wrong with the game, some of its fanbase (as evidenced by some of the replies in this thread) and SI.

Nearly all the "features" they have introduced in the last few years have made the game worse. SI is a company going in the wrong direction, alienating its true fans in the stupid search for new target markets, going for quantity over quality, and producing regular *****, year after year. The only reason the company survives is that is has no competition. But competition or not, any company that behaves as SI does at the moment has no long-term future. Once the apple cart is overturned, the apples can't be put back.

Ironically, the game could be made ten times better just by repealing all the guff they've introduced in the last few years. Get rid of all press conferences, player interaction, team talk, media, agents and other rubbish. None of these areas in its present form is anywhere near fit for purpose. Just leave the core game of players, training, transfers (once fixed obviously), tactics and the match and you'd have a much better game since those are the bits that actually work.

Agree completely, the core of the game is fine...even the match engine has improved greatly but my god - teamtalks and press conferences are possibly the most boring tedious and unfun thing I've ever come across in a game. In their quest to become the ultimate simulation, I th

[toon army 06]

Am I the only person who feels that with every release of FM that the game is becoming less and less about football/winning games and more about everything else? Maybe it's me but what happened to building squads, searching for young players and you know actual football.

I spend more time trying to work out why my star striker is 'unhappy' or 'lacking confidence' than I do doing anything else. This along with the guessing game of press/agent interactions where I prey I can decipher the 'right thing to say' just so my entire team don't lose any kind of morale they have.

What's next for the FM manager series, I have come up with the following suggestions. I think it's time to move away from all this football rubbish and place more emphasis on morale/confidence and generally just playing Russel Grant or Mystic Meg. Here's my top suggestions:

1. I want the ability to talk to players about their marriage/girlfriends and children. I should be able to sit a player down on my sofa in my office and make him a cup of tea and just talk and get to know him. Maybe you can add another stat, call it 'Listening'. Of course all possible response need to be as vague as possible, for example:

Player: I think my wife is cheating on me

Possible Replies:

1. Buy a new dog

2. I'm sorry I don't like Pokemon

3. This is Chewbacca, Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor

4. Cut in from the left and take more shots at goal

2. Why not add the ability to park the players cars, kind of like a minigame. The better you park the car, the more confidence their morale will be for the next match!

3. Food/Drink. For every player at the club I want the ability to make them their own food. Each player could have a hidden attribute that dictates what type of food they like (Pasta/Fish/Chocolate etc). It will then be upto the manager to decide what to give them before each match. Of course you could talk to the players and get hints/tips from as to what they like.

Manager: So what type of food do you like the best

Player Replies:

Well it can be hot or cold, but not to hot or cold, and of course it needs to be crunchy with a slight softness to it, with a touch of spice and a something cool to balance it out

The manager then chooses from a list of 87 different items, the correct choice will cause the players morale to shoot up but the wrong choice will see him depressed for the next 6 months and ask for a transfer.

4. Haircuts. Sadly a neglected aspect of the FM upto now, for a game that strives for realism, this is a disgrace. The manager should be able to cut each players hair (mini game potential!) and the result of which should effect not only how they play on the pitch but also their stats. For example you can shave your forwards hair to make them more aerodynamic and run faster, of course if he like his hair long then you need to decide what is best for the team.

Overall I feel that these changes would benefit the game far more than making changes to the ME, or fixing bugs etc. SI needs to concentrate on what players want, we all want to mirco manage everything, it should imo take a full week of sitting at your PC preparing your team for a match. This is the kind of realism that SI should be striving for!

what a daft post this is not the tweenies computer game and what so you don't want fm to be like reallife football.

[ArranoBeltza]

It's very obvious the OP has never played Football Manager.

[Ozie]

@OP

you be trolling?

[chris2403]

i agree with just about everything here BUT if a player became unhappy about something in a previous fm then it was tough, you either had to just get on with a player potentially upsetting the squad or sell him, at least this year we have the chance to talk to the player to try and avoid having to sell or potentially upsetting the squad and keep the player, its not perfect granted but surely its better than being able to say nothing at all?

[matthewsoles]

I don't check this forum outside of work hours (shhh), but I'm pleased to see this is still being contributed to

[Lindhoffen]

- I like yoghurt.

I'd go for this. Especially if it's the Tesco lemon one.

[Mansleg]

I don't know if it is possible having not bought FM11 yet (still really enjoying FM10.3), but is there not just an option to ignore the player interactions and carry on regardless (much like sending your assistant to do all press conferences) or is it a feature that you are forced into using? Having played the demo I thought the player interactions were pretty poor. Not against the idea being included in the game nor anything that increases the ability to manage a team (interaction being a crucial form of management in any profession) but I do feel SI really have not made a satisfactory effort in creating it. Would be interesting to know how much time went into testing the feature before release.

Oh and the OP was the funniest thing I've ever read on this forum.

[stonini90]

1. Buy a new dog

[Lindhoffen]

3. This is Chewbacca, Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor

That's not true! Chewbacca comes from the planet Kashyyk!

Anyway. Yeah. Funny post.

[Death Ball]

Oh, boy, you've not seen the "what would you want in future releases" threads, have you?. Now that is asking for SIMS: The Football Shopper.

I think it's not yet gone that far, I would call sims the FIFA with his family life, blergh, yuck!, so they end wasting a huge lot of computer resources for non football things.

Obviously, there's a point regarding the player interaction right now, that will always be there: Player interaction can't really be simulated perfectly, and if it could, it probably would demand too much from the computer to be worth using as it would take too much off the tactical side, which is the meat. So the fact managers have to work with managing the player egos (the big problem spoken about ManC) makes it a reasonable feature to have player interaction and morale; but then the fact that the simulation can't be perfect and the conversations can't be as deep as one would like (which doesn't mean we have to settle with bare childish talks), means the talks will have to be somewhat schematic, but also that there's many kinds of shades to each meaning and that wrong answers shouldn't provoke huge and long results (neither the right ones of course) with just being used once (unless it's a clear extreme, like someone getting a 10 and an average of 9.5 then telling him he plays like rubbish).

Player interaction obviously needs improvement. Surely each phrase can be given more varieties, it could be added a couple more degrees to each option, tone down the consequences of single answers, etc.

Of course, the ME should receive the focus, because that's what the game is about. The rest is part and ddeserves being there, naturally.

Now, buying cars, houses, wives?. Hells, call the insane asylum!.

[MrPompey]

you only have to read the papers to see what a manager in real life needs to cope with.

Comparing this to sims is a bit of joke...nice one

[grade]

Thank you to those who complimented me about the post.

A lot of the comments I made were exaggerated, but the main crux of the post is how I feel. I honestly feel there has been far to much emphasis made of the interactions between the manager and the players. I understand completely that man management and the ability to motivate players is vital to modern day football. However unless SI can come up with a system that is totally transparent to the user then I don't feel it is remotely fair to have the effect be so important.

I also believe that the FM series has got to the point of information overload. I remember seeing a documentary about the American military, they have developed what is called a 'electronic battlefield' where they gather information from a multitude of sources to enable their commanders to make the best decisions etc. During test they actually found out that it was possible to overload soldiers/commanders with information causing them to make poor decisions. I think this is currently the case with FM, there is far too much *stuff* thrown at the player, most of which is very unintuitive.

Take the team talks for example, this whole area is incredibly confusing, with managers worried what to say to players incase they lose their motivation. This is something that if it is going to play a vital role in results that needs to completely transparent, none of this guesswork stuff.

Someone asked whether people just want the old CM with the new database. I want a balance, with the key emphasis being on playability and fun rather than the need to try and simulate everything possible. Marc Vaughan has mentioned numerous times that he see's elements of RPGs in the FM series. I understand that, it's about creating a believable environment for players to be apart of to enhance the feel of actually being in charge of a football team. My only issue with this is that, in RPGs such as Baldurs Gate the developers do not simulate every aspect of the environment to build a believable playing environment. You didn't see Tolkien writing about how Frodo had to stop to take a pee on his way to Mordor because it's realistic. The emphasis has to be on the player, what works for the player, does the player really need to play 'lets motivate player x,y,x' every week to make them feel like Alex Ferguson.

Overall I think sometime less is more. Blizzard made WoW, people complain about it, but it's an insanely polished product compared to the vast majority of MMOs released. Now WoW doesn't constantly throw new features at players, but what they do is make sure that the features that are in the game work amazingly well. Months upon months of play testing, constantly honing, changing little details etc. There is no way that anyone can tell me that months and months went into testing the latest version of FM, it only takes a few days playing to see that there are some stand-out issues that needed fixing.

Overall I just feel disappointed with where I see the FM series going. It really is a shame that there is no viable alternative to FM, I can't help but feel that SI would be far more reluctant to release a product like FM in it's current state if they knew there was a potential for customers to try a different product.

This is the best post ever! You summarize pretty well many of my issues with the last few versions and completely agree with you.

[Loony BoB]

I agree regarding the thought that the idea behind the implementation was good, but the implementation itself was overdone. Not in that there is too much you can do, but more so that the effects of each interaction are over-exaggerated. I didn't do much interaction with players in my first season and did great, but noticed that I was considered to avoid any kind of interaction with my players according to my profile. So I tried to interact and while sometimes it paid off, most times it ended with the morale being affected in ways I would never have guessed or intended. I also feel morale can have too immense an impact on results, or vice versa, but that's another story.

[tottenhamfmo7]

I'm sorry but all those suggestions are pretty much bollocks! xD

[aggressive minor]

Great opening post

There is a market for a CM01/02 (still the greatest ever CM/FM game for me) style game. The game has become too complex and a chore to play (even though I still play it).

I just like tactics and wheeling and dealing. Forget the training, conferences, pointess player interaction, 3D games.

I wish I could wipe my memory and play CM01/02 as a 14 year old again...great times.

[edgar555]

Great opening post

There is a market for a CM01/02 (still the greatest ever CM/FM game for me) style game. The game has become too complex and a chore to play (even though I still play it).

I just like tactics and wheeling and dealing. Forget the training, conferences, pointess player interaction, 3D games.

I wish I could wipe my memory and play CM01/02 as a 14 year old again...great times.

This is also a good post and really exposes the crux of the matter.

There is a market for a stripped down version, but I think that there is not a big enough market. Otherwise things like LMA manager might have stuck around.

Look at threads like the wishlist and others and you see that for every person who wants a stripped down version thats just buy players, make tactics, go! there are 10 people who want more depth, more immersion, more realism, agents, 3d, bells, whistles, etc.

This FMlite that you seek does actually exist, its called FMH. However I can't see SI scaling it up to pc for 2 reasons

1) they would be diluting their own market &

2) you can bet your bottom dollar that people would clamour to make it more, bigger, better and then where will be? Back here, people asking for stripped down redux.

That means that this stripped down version must come from another developer and as CM and LMA have proved, they don't do it well because they try to hard to be FM and don't try and exploit this hole in the market.

It would be good for SI if they had strong competition, nothing makes a company sit up and raise its game like a new kid in town walking their talk.

[Andy Anon]

so im guessing one of your main gripes is the player interaction, where one wrong word could upset someone? Take a look at a very recent real world case. Roy Hodgson criticised Glen Johnson, saying he needs to improve to stay in the team. Something you could do in FM. Now reports are circulating that it's really upset Johnson and he wants to leave in January. So the fact this happens in FM isn't realistic?

If only he would!! Glenn Johnson is the most over-rated footballer I know. And that comes from a Liverpool and England fan!!

He is a defensive liability and if he is worth £15m+ then so am I.

[PoolFan]

Great opening post

There is a market for a CM01/02 (still the greatest ever CM/FM game for me) style game. The game has become too complex and a chore to play (even though I still play it).

I just like tactics and wheeling and dealing. Forget the training, conferences, pointess player interaction, 3D games.

I wish I could wipe my memory and play CM01/02 as a 14 year old again...great times.

I honestly feel there's a big market out there for this type of game. It wasn't any surprise to me that when SI split from publishers Eidos they insisted on keeping the code and the database. The database that SI have developed over the course of 10+ years is what makes CM/FM the game it is. Football fans know football, the database adds a huge level of realism. How many people have sat down and watched 'Eurogoals' with a pen and a piece of paper writing down players name so they could go check them up in the database, or watched some youth cup games scribbling down names.

It's not press conferences or team talks that make CM/FM, it's the player database, the level of detail involved in simulating leagues/competitions and also the tactics. These are the core aspects of CM/FM, the rest is just fluff. The problem now is that a lot of that fluff/filler content seems to be effecting the main aspect of what everyone loved about CM/FM.

I've been playing CM/FM for a long time, I remember Marc Vaughan making posts to the Champ Man newsgroup on usenet, it was obvious then that the people involved in CM/FM were proper football fans, the type of guys who you could have a conversation down the pub with about players etc. I don't want the game to lose that fan type appeal and have it get to bogged down in needless areas of simulation that whilst they may add a certain level of atmosphere end up encroaching on what made the game fun in the first place.

I would honestly be curious to see what the developmental roadmap looks like for FM. SI must have long term plans for the game, features they want to introduce, goals, where they see the game going in the next few years. Has anyone got any details about this stuff? There are a million FM sites, has anyone done any interviews with their PR guy to ask them these types of questions?

[PoolFan]

This is also a good post and really exposes the crux of the matter.

There is a market for a stripped down version, but I think that there is not a big enough market. Otherwise things like LMA manager might have stuck around.

Look at threads like the wishlist and others and you see that for every person who wants a stripped down version thats just buy players, make tactics, go! there are 10 people who want more depth, more immersion, more realism, agents, 3d, bells, whistles, etc.

This FMlite that you seek does actually exist, its called FMH. However I can't see SI scaling it up to pc for 2 reasons

1) they would be diluting their own market &

2) you can bet your bottom dollar that people would clamour to make it more, bigger, better and then where will be? Back here, people asking for stripped down redux.

That means that this stripped down version must come from another developer and as CM and LMA have proved, they don't do it well because they try to hard to be FM and don't try and exploit this hole in the market.

It would be good for SI if they had strong competition, nothing makes a company sit up and raise its game like a new kid in town walking their talk.

It is interesting that no other company has stepped up and throw their hat in the ring in terms of developing a alternative product. As I stated in my previous post, the big thing anyone has to get done right is the database and the modelling of the leagues/competitions. I am not sure how SI approach keeping the database updated but I'd imagine it took a LONG time to develop relationships with people abroad to get the kind of information they have in there. Simply releasing a game with the 'big leagues' modelled isn't enough, nobody is going to be interested in a game where you can only buy players from the top 10 leagues in the world.

[Skooma]

I really wish I had more depth in conversation choices. The options now are really limiting and narrow. I'd also really like players to get over it if I make a gaffe with them 4 weeks into my job. Ryan Babel still hasn't gotten over whatever I said to him after he complained too many players play his position, despite against my better judgment in actually playing his punk ass later on.

Best part of it is I transfer listed him like he wanted so everyone is waiting for me to sack him and then buy him up then. It happened with Itandje too.

Funny thing about Itandje as well. He just went and had a massive sulk when I transfer listed him. I couldn't do anything about it. He insisted that he has a right to stay at Liverpool (despite that I'm his boss) but didn't show up to training anyway.

[HHUK]

As long as I don't have to tell Rooney to go to the toilet I don't care how in-depth it becomes.

[Stejo]

Agree with the OP 100%. The added features are not working. Actually they're subtracting. Everyone seems to understand that it's impossible to accurately model this kind of interactions, except the developers. Just take all this nonsense out of the game, work on it for a good 20-30 years, and if it's remotely presentable by then, make a public beta for another 10 years and then release it. Till then just focus on making a proper solid fun game of tactics, training and transfers.

[jayahr]

One may very well argue that the whole interaction side has been made quite sloppily, but it's certainly a very important part of the job in real life.

If I see how often this kind of rl features have been demanded, I can't see how one could seriously argue that they should go. Are they realistic in the meaning that they reflect how it works irl? Hell, no! But would you prefer them to be not there at all instead? That would make a very dull game as well.

These features are improved step by step, according to available resources and so on.

Funny post, but it doesn't get the point. If you want to see how perfect you can be at the first attempt, go and play CM1. That may teach you how far we have come in incremental steps.

[PjW_JJJ]

“But would you prefer them to be not there at all instead?”

Yes. Surely anyone with more than two functioning brain cells would. Especially something that, as mentioned above, everyone seems to accept is impossible to model to any satisfactory degree.

As it is, I’m back to FM10 and will stay there until the “final” patch (Feb?); even then I doubt FM11 will be worth playing while these sort of sub-Sims, infantile features and their wild effects on players remain. Never mind other lunacies like taking a certain species of dreamworld that regards putting a player in the reserve squad for one second equating to “going out and telling them they’re in the reserves for no reason” and inflicting that on the rest of us.

Personally, I’d be more than happy with FM7 fused with FM10’s match engine with a database update every so often.

As stated before, an adult game is being dragged into the realms of primary school multiple choice.

[padaxes]

I do not post very often on here but i feel like I had to reply to this thread.

I agree 100% with the OP the player interaction sdie of the game is boring and tedious.

I know you can let the assistant manager take control of these but too often you get negative responses to his team talks and press conferences. I would much prefer it if I want my assistant to take charge of these things that he recived no Negative or Positive effects from doing so.

[bilykun]

As stated before, an adult game is being dragged into the realms of primary school multiple choice.

Brilliant reply to a brilliant OP.

[Lankylars]

Am I the only person who feels that with every release of FM that the game is becoming less and less about football/winning games and more about everything else? Maybe it's me but what happened to building squads, searching for young players and you know actual football.

I spend more time trying to work out why my star striker is 'unhappy' or 'lacking confidence' than I do doing anything else. This along with the guessing game of press/agent interactions where I prey I can decipher the 'right thing to say' just so my entire team don't lose any kind of morale they have.

What's next for the FM manager series, I have come up with the following suggestions. I think it's time to move away from all this football rubbish and place more emphasis on morale/confidence and generally just playing Russel Grant or Mystic Meg. Here's my top suggestions:

1. I want the ability to talk to players about their marriage/girlfriends and children. I should be able to sit a player down on my sofa in my office and make him a cup of tea and just talk and get to know him. Maybe you can add another stat, call it 'Listening'. Of course all possible response need to be as vague as possible, for example:

Player: I think my wife is cheating on me

Possible Replies:

1. Buy a new dog

2. I'm sorry I don't like Pokemon

3. This is Chewbacca, Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor

4. Cut in from the left and take more shots at goal

2. Why not add the ability to park the players cars, kind of like a minigame. The better you park the car, the more confidence their morale will be for the next match!

3. Food/Drink. For every player at the club I want the ability to make them their own food. Each player could have a hidden attribute that dictates what type of food they like (Pasta/Fish/Chocolate etc). It will then be upto the manager to decide what to give them before each match. Of course you could talk to the players and get hints/tips from as to what they like.

Manager: So what type of food do you like the best

Player Replies:

Well it can be hot or cold, but not to hot or cold, and of course it needs to be crunchy with a slight softness to it, with a touch of spice and a something cool to balance it out

The manager then chooses from a list of 87 different items, the correct choice will cause the players morale to shoot up but the wrong choice will see him depressed for the next 6 months and ask for a transfer.

4. Haircuts. Sadly a neglected aspect of the FM upto now, for a game that strives for realism, this is a disgrace. The manager should be able to cut each players hair (mini game potential!) and the result of which should effect not only how they play on the pitch but also their stats. For example you can shave your forwards hair to make them more aerodynamic and run faster, of course if he like his hair long then you need to decide what is best for the team.

Overall I feel that these changes would benefit the game far more than making changes to the ME, or fixing bugs etc. SI needs to concentrate on what players want, we all want to mirco manage everything, it should imo take a full week of sitting at your PC preparing your team for a match. This is the kind of realism that SI should be striving for!

I will say that, while I feel you are way-off with your assessment of FM heading in a "Sim-sy" direction, I did have a good chuckle reading your "suggested" improvements.

[Yoav17]

Since the introduction of 3D, the direction is younger EA users.

Shame.

But it remains a nice game.

[thebluesigns]

Haircuts - yes!

I seem to remember the Argentina manager insisting in 1994 that his squad all had neat hair for the World Cup, forcing Batistuta to initially refuse and risk being dropped for USA94.

[PoolFan]

Haircuts - yes!

I seem to remember the Argentina manager insisting in 1994 that his squad all had neat hair for the World Cup, forcing Batistuta to initially refuse and risk being dropped for USA94.

LOL I remember that, that was awesome.

[Sarmatian]

Thank you to those who complimented me about the post.

A lot of the comments I made were exaggerated, but the main crux of the post is how I feel. I honestly feel there has been far to much emphasis made of the interactions between the manager and the players. I understand completely that man management and the ability to motivate players is vital to modern day football. However unless SI can come up with a system that is totally transparent to the user then I don't feel it is remotely fair to have the effect be so important.

I also believe that the FM series has got to the point of information overload. I remember seeing a documentary about the American military, they have developed what is called a 'electronic battlefield' where they gather information from a multitude of sources to enable their commanders to make the best decisions etc. During test they actually found out that it was possible to overload soldiers/commanders with information causing them to make poor decisions. I think this is currently the case with FM, there is far too much *stuff* thrown at the player, most of which is very unintuitive.

Take the team talks for example, this whole area is incredibly confusing, with managers worried what to say to players incase they lose their motivation. This is something that if it is going to play a vital role in results that needs to completely transparent, none of this guesswork stuff.

Information overload - fantastic wording mate!

Is player playing badly because it's just not his day, because you're not using him properly, because opposing player has a game of his life, because he doesn't handle pressure well, because he's upset because of the press conference, because he's upset because of the team-talk, because he's upset about personal issues, because he's upset about a talk he had with you, because he doesn't like his team-mate, because he doesn't like his training, because his personality is so different than other members of the squad, because of some other of his hidden stats (consistency, professionalism, important matches) etc...

You don't get all of the information needed and even if you did, it is an information overload and leaves you unable to make a correct decision.

I agree that press conferences and player-manager relation strongly influence player performance but it is impossible to simulate it properly. Also, I find that it is always the manager who needs to adapt to his players, while in real life, it usually players who adapt to his manager. After all, manager is The Boss, A Player is a worker. Barring tutoring, players have set in stone personalities that can't change. There is 0% chance that a player will ever become more professional if coached by a manager who demands professionalism from his player, even if he was coached for 10 years...

[Sinner264]

Haha, great OP.

[el sid]

Great OP

[Quads]

wp OP, but gtfo. FM definitely needs to be WAY more Sims-ish than it is right now. Managers basically do nothing but buy players (IRL managers don't actually do it) and play matches. There's long way to go if you wanna get a TRUE Football Manager game.

[docklanders]

Fantastic OP

[BiggusD]

Nice sarcasm there in the OP

I agree that players are too mentally unstable in this game. SI could keep all these new features if they reduced the acute sensitivity of the hidden mental stats as well as creating a whole tab for personality only. A sentence from your scout/assistant and a single word in the "Personal" screen is simply not enough!

[CsAtlantis]

heh, every couple of months I find my players coming to me unhappy and wanting to move to a big club

I should be able to offer ice-cream or candy to my youth players, but instead, I tell anyone that "the club will grow and I want you to be part of that" and they accept most of the time, without realizing that I am also telling them to grow up............................

[HarryMills]

spot on OP! Every year it gets further away from where i would like to see it headed. First time i've not bought an edition since CM2.

[CFish]

Champ Man quiz......

[Guest]

Ha Ha, its funny because its so true. Captures my thoughts exactly.

[Marty_Abs]

spot on OP! Every year it gets further away from where i would like to see it headed. First time i've not bought an edition since CM2.

Then how do you know?

[crouchaldinho]

Maybe he played the demo.

[dking]

Very funny OP.

I would have to agree that it's getting a bit 'simsy'. A bit too much going on with a bit too much realism. I think a better balance needs to be found.

[Svenc]

Very funny OP.

Rather very much uncalled for. Fair enough not to like how FM handles certain aspects of the game - but not a single duty simulated by Football Manager strays off. The OP is making it sound as if SI were trying to add personal life aspects into the game, let players customise their avatar, design your own club ground Sim City style, when they're doing neither. It's a purist approach, honest. The OP would be funny if it wasn't that off. (And if it wasn't oh so tragically close to describing features of many management games that actually exist.. and Football Manager doesn't belong in that list of gimmick managers, never did).

[LCFCEaves31]

I did laugh reading this...but...if you don't like it, go play sims 3