Mr Hough 4-1-1-2-2 FM11.1 Tactic

[Bahumat]

Mr Hough, I can't feel my face! what is wrong? am I too attacking?

[dking]

Basically, if you play with 2cm's or dm's and your up against a good side that plays with 2cm's and a player in the hole, you're going to get found out. I've dominated most teams that don't play this way and the minute I come up against a team that does, my team struggle.

For instance, I won the title and went unbeaten for 17 games in the league and champs league, I then come up against a good side in the champs league semi's (Arsenal) who play with 2cm's and a player in the hole and I got absolutely spanked 5-0. I was 3-0 down in 5minutes. They have destroyed me every game this season, 4 matches and 4 heavy defeats.

I lost 3-1 to Juve.

I lost away to 1-0 to Villa and scraped a result at home against them.

I scraped a 3-2 win to Chelsea which was undeserved. They battered me.

I lost home and away to Tottenham who played the same formation as Arsenal

I got slaughtered by Man city but got away with a 2-1.

All these loses and poor performances came when the other team played with a man behind the striker.

I've tried packing out the middle but I just can't get anything to work. Any suggestions?

[lozzer4]

I think if you try two centre midfielders and a defensive midfielder it could work better. I did this with Wolves first season and won the leauge, the midfield was excellent and solid. They may be only one striker but it is definetley enough with two ADVANCED wingers so there is a great balance

[Elhan]

Having played for a while and created both a 4-1-1-2-2 and a 4-2(DM)-4 formations, there is one big difference in the defense. With 4-1-1-2-2 it is a bit harder to cover the wings, especialy if the MC is playing centraly, exactly in front of the DM. However, it does give you more pressure in the center of the pitch and prevents some long shots and through balls. On the other hand, playing 2 DMs, it's much easier to cover the flanks. Both closing down wide players and droping in the fullback's position when he gets skined or overloaded makes this formation much better against teams playing from the flanks.

Offensively, 4-1-1-2-2 is hands down better, no question about it.

As far as 2 striker formations go (excluding 4-5-1 that is), the one I feel might have the potential to work really well with FM 11's ME is a traditional 4-4-2 (wide) diamond. Not only does it give you excellent offensive and defensive cover on the wings (since wide midfielders are generally better defensively than wingers), but you also have the AMC to support your strikers, and an anchor man at the same time. The main drawback of the formation would be an overeliance on the AMC to both defend, link up play, and attack. Just my 2 cents.

[someguyvoom]

lozzer please upload

[SuSSex_GuNNer]

I started a new save with Man Utd as i thought they had the correct type of players to use without having to add any new faces.

After about 10 games i started to noticed all the flaws that people have been mentioning, especially the big gap in the middle of the pitch.

I have made a couple of tweeks and have been using them for 5 games now and have won 4, lost 1 (very unlucky conceded in 92nd minute), scored 17, conceded 1.

These results included a 4-0 win over Real Madrid.

Will be giving the tweeks a few more games to see how they do and will repost with hopefully some positve results.

[Silverfiress]

With all due respect, this is not a lower ter team tactic

Im playing fulham, got a few signings, and im doing ok.. but still in the first 5 after 27 games.

Its decent imo, but you need to watch the games on full highlights and swap your players if they are tired.

You need 2 very good dm`s

[albanie.]

not been getting great results so far with aston villa.

inverness (a) 4-2 win

red star (h) 2-0 win

millwall (a) 4-1 win

bradford (h) 2-0 win

scorelines slightly misleading. the performances have been poor. big hole in the middle of the park. very susceptible to long range strikes. through balls are also quite effective for AI.

on a positive note, the tactic makes very good use of wingers + crossing in general though. alot of my goals so far have come from crosses.

[Silverfiress]

Another thing i noticed.

I was using OI's and team talks alot, i let my assitant do them after a while and my game improved, i think OIs just limits this tactics capabilities.

[albanie.]

i think OIs do have a negative effect upon the tactic (and most tactics). sort of like conflicting ideas.

[Silverfiress]

Mr Hough, in your sneak peak thread you were using fellaini as a DMCR and Rodwell as an MCL .. is this the same tactic?

[will8578]

my liverpool game, im now into feb, 16 points clear, bought benitez in jan for 1.5mill, scored 6 in 7 games so far, this tatic is amazing for me esp the defence, out of roughly 30 games iv had 19 clean sheets, torres and gerrard still playing amazing for me

[someguyvoom]

where are you playing gerrard?

[Barnetta]

I'm getting far better results in my second year with the tactic. Right now I'm in the mix for a first or second place finish (the pre-season prediction was relegation!) with 8 games to go.

[Crewe_Alex]

Not having any luck with this one Mr Hough. But youve done an amazing job for this community, and Im sure that you will improve it with the feedback from all of us here

[will8578]

where are you playing gerrard?

playing him as right winger, i have also played him in the left striker position a couple of times, scored a hat trick in 1 game there

[Pryku]

OK I'm tessting for Schalke 04

[Bebetu]

It did not work for my Blackpool side,I conceded to many goals.This tactic indeed is good offensively but i think is not for teams who start outsiders every match.After 6 games in EPL i conceded 21 goals and this is too much for my taste even if i play such weak side as Blackpool.With this system most of goals i take are from flanks and long shots.

Thx for your efforts to build a tactic that should work for every team Mr.Hough but i believe that this tactic is made for mid-high teams.

I will try to make my own tactic a 4-5-1 system with more defensive wingers(MR,ML) 1 anchorman and 2 AMCs(1 insideforward as second striker and an advanced playmaker or trequaertista).

PS:sry for my bad english but i think is understable what i wrote and i hope that u will work to make a good tactic for "low tier teams" in the near future .

[NaRaYaN]

17th with Blackpool is to be expected. In my current game it's nearly the end of the season and they are on 3 points all from 0-0 draws.

[Mr Hough]

I feel kinda sad to be honest, I wanted this tactic to be top class, I really thought it was because you would if you won the Treble with Everton in your first season wouldn't you!

Anyway i'm working on something else now, same formation but i'm gonna instead of testing iot with mid table team, I'm gonna test it lower league first then high team after

[Jovetic]

it good on attacking but poor on defending , too much gap in defence n midfilder i often win 4-2,3-2,4-3 eventhough i have world class back four . i hope u figure it out . i tweaks as many i know but still leaking . its good to win and its bad to concede !!

[jib]

Don't feel sad Mr Hough! It's working well for some, and you've brought us awesome tactics in the past and get nothing in return. To be fair I see that alot of the tactics gurus have struggled this year, I think it's just tougher, or more realistic this year, so there's no master tactic that everyone can do well with. That being said I look forward to the differences the tweaks make and thank you for shairng all your hard work!

[maddison hoops]

hi there! can anyone help, im looking for all player photos and team badges and also a nicer game interface! backround picturing. can anyone nice soul link me something to go along with my new tactic please! oh and maybe a small description on how to apply them to the game! thankyou so very much!!!.

[dking]

I feel kinda sad to be honest, I wanted this tactic to be top class, I really thought it was because you would if you won the Treble with Everton in your first season wouldn't you!

Anyway i'm working on something else now, same formation but i'm gonna instead of testing iot with mid table team, I'm gonna test it lower league first then high team after

I really don't think 2midfielders is the way forward on this version. It gets found out every time against people who play with 3CM's or an AM or somebody playing in the hole. I've tried maybe 7 or 8 different tactics with 2cm's or 2dm's and they just don't work well against that type of formation.

Seems this years version of FM11 is a tough nut to crack. Maybe waiting for the match engine to be a bit more stable before trying to make a tactic could help. Just an idea.

[RichG]

I have found the beta sneak peek a more reliable tactic.

I switched to your new one and got hammered in my first game. Switched back and won 2 games with the beta version. I seem to find wizard tactics a lot more leaky in def than classic ones.

I think as FM gets more in depth with new features drop and play tactics are getting harder to make. I now enjoy mixing it up a little and setting my team up for games. I find Mr Hough's tactics a great basis for my games as i do not have the time to test tactics over many seasons or read the tactical threads so using his tactics then tweaking them to suit my squad and playing style is better for me.

KUTGW Mr Hough

[ZEPTER]

Hey Mr Hough,

As I said before in a previous post of your first version of the is tactic the shape is wrong. Your defenders often hit long clearences everytime your centre forward does not win the header there is no midfielder there to pick up the pieces as hes way too deep defending. This problem cannot be fixed with your current shape. this Fm more so than any other for me requires you to dominate the possession battle and i have only got over 55% in one of my 22 games with this tactics so far.

If you want to keep this shape i would recommend pushing up your D line way up this will have the effect of compressing the game and hopefully getting you defensive midfielders into the game.

For those of you only interested in plug and play downloadable tactics Overall for me this is not a top tactic there are far superior tactics out there to download. Good but not great need to figure out how to hold onto possession.

[RichG]

Strange you should say that ZEPTER the beta version seems to play good football on the deck. My games do not seem to have big clearances from the back. I may slow the highlights a little to monitor this.

Although i do drop a few clicks back on some things when at a lower team. I try to keep passing shorter to compensate for poor passing and remove all long shots from players who can't do it etc. I tend to create level formats of Mr Hough's tactics based on the fact i won't get a striker with 20 finishing in the lower leagues so why do overload and waste 15 shots a game he has no chance of scoring. I am noticing i have a lot of shots off target in my current game so trying to eliminate them from the game is my main issue and retain possession in the areas they would normally shoot from.

[Mr Hough]

Last year i never made a decent tactic till the 2nd patch and that might be the same here, I think there are problems with the ME and that might be why alot of peoiple can't get a decent tactic going.

I'm gonna keep trying anyway though.

[ZEPTER]

Strange you should say that ZEPTER the beta version seems to play good football on the deck. My games do not seem to have big clearances from the back. I may slow the highlights a little to monitor this.

Although i do drop a few clicks back on some things when at a lower team. I try to keep passing shorter to compensate for poor passing and remove all long shots from players who can't do it etc. I tend to create level formats of Mr Hough's tactics based on the fact i won't get a striker with 20 finishing in the lower leagues so why do overload and waste 15 shots a game he has no chance of scoring. I am noticing i have a lot of shots off target in my current game so trying to eliminate them from the game is my main issue and retain possession in the areas they would normally shoot from.

Yes you hold onto the ball okay say from your own goal kick but if you are playing against a strong side and are under a bit of pressure in defence your DMCs "through balls" are basically punts upfield as the defenders are. I have tried this tactic with roma and a burnley side in the premier league basically the same problem everytime I rarely if ever won the possession battle.

For me an effective way of stopping conceding from numerous goals from crosses is to play a higher D line. As this at the very minimum gives the opposition winger a bit of work to do if he is to get the byline and make the killer cross

Also no need for the two dmcs with a higher line you can get away with one.

[Silverfiress]

It did not work for my Blackpool side,I conceded to many goals.This tactic indeed is good offensively but i think is not for teams who start outsiders every match.After 6 games in EPL i conceded 21 goals and this is too much for my taste even if i play such weak side as Blackpool.With this system most of goals i take are from flanks and long shots.

Thx for your efforts to build a tactic that should work for every team Mr.Hough but i believe that this tactic is made for mid-high teams.

I will try to make my own tactic a 4-5-1 system with more defensive wingers(MR,ML) 1 anchorman and 2 AMCs(1 insideforward as second striker and an advanced playmaker or trequaertista).

PS:sry for my bad english but i think is understable what i wrote and i hope that u will work to make a good tactic for "low tier teams" in the near future .

Are you for real ? YOU MORALE IS PROBALY POOR TO VERY POOR BECAUSE ALL YOUR PLAYERS ARE LISTED FOR TRANSFER, YOU CANT EXPECT A TACTIC TO WORK IF YOUR MORALE IS 0.

learm some fm 1 on 1 lessons than come here and say the tactic sucks.

[Bebetu]

Are you for real ? YOU MORALE IS PROBALY POOR TO VERY POOR BECAUSE ALL YOUR PLAYERS ARE LISTED FOR TRANSFER, YOU CANT EXPECT A TACTIC TO WORK IF YOUR MORALE IS 0.

learm some fm 1 on 1 lessons than come here and say the tactic sucks.

Indeed morale is poor but mainly because of bad results lately.I will try to improve their morale by critizing their training and try few more matches and see how my team and especially my defensive aspect of it will manage.I know that team blending and morale is not so good but tactic is fluid.And i never said that this tactic sucks i said that only suits better for teams like tottenham and above for example who have indeed good all arround players.

[ThomasCro]

a draw and a loss so far, can you please explain how does a formation with defensive midfielders and wingers use passing throught the middle, and why is the mentality set to control?

thanks

[maddison hoops]

hi there! can anyone help, im looking for all player photos and team badges and also a nicer game interface! backround picturing. can anyone nice soul link me something to go along with my new tactic please! oh and maybe a small description on how to apply them to the game! thankyou so very much!!!.

[Mr Hough]

god this is so bloody frustrating at the minute

I move a striker in the DM and CM position i create 0 i leave the striker there i create chances but get battered as a team.

I'm gonna try and different formation completly not use wingers gonna try AMC's instead becuase this is Annoying the hell out of me now.

[ZEPTER]

god this is so bloody frustrating at the minute

I move a striker in the DM and CM position i create 0 i leave the striker there i create chances but get battered as a team.

I'm gonna try and different formation completly not use wingers gonna try AMC's instead becuase this is Annoying the hell out of me now.

There is a similar tactic to that below http://www.thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=71459

Dont think it deals with crosses too well from reading the thread although i havnt tried the tactic yet

[ThomasCro]

why is my goalkeeper kicking the goal kicks out when it is set for defender collect? he kicks the ball to the midfield where none of my players are

[jdubsnz]

First of all this tactic is much better than anything I had ttried to put together so cheers Mr Hough. Mixed bag for me so far - I have to say this is the hardest FM I have played. Either that or this save is very tricky. Playing with Arsenal and sitting 9th end of November (was sitting around 17th for a while!). Since using this tactic have managed 4 wins and 2 losses, so it's promising.

I got a stirring in my loins when we spanked Dinamo in the champs league 5-0 with the first use of it - since then though it's only been 1 or 2 goals a game. I am noticing two key things with this - my strikers are missing a lot of shots, and we are very susceptible to late comebacks.

Am going to try one of the DMs moved up to CM (automatic) and see what a difference that makes

[albanie.]

Indeed morale is poor but mainly because of bad results lately.I will try to improve their morale by critizing their training and try few more matches and see how my team and especially my defensive aspect of it will manage.I know that team blending and morale is not so good but tactic is fluid.And i never said that this tactic sucks i said that only suits better for teams like tottenham and above for example who have indeed good all arround players.

if you weren't performing too well, would your morale be improved by criticism of your training?

[chadnw]

From my observation of other tactic threads across various FM sites and my own experience, a bottom diamond (DM, CM, CM) formation seems to be most successful in defence. Not that I am any kind of expert to be advising Mr. Hough. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[chengshou]

great! thanks

[Bebetu]

if you weren't performing too well, would your morale be improved by criticism of your training?

Yes u can,i do that once a month usually in first day when AS will give his reports about training.I tell them to step up their level for most of players except being those who AS will mention as well trained and those who have some green arrows seeing their training schedule.For those i tell the 3rd option with impressive,and if some players have bad responses i tell them that this meeting is over .

[Mr Hough]

From my observation of other tactic threads across various FM sites and my own experience, a bottom diamond (DM, CM, CM) formation seems to be most successful in defence. Not that I am any kind of expert to be advising Mr. Hough. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Thats one i have been thinking about but it lacks in attack

[Mr Hough]

I am trying 2 CM's at the minute but the CM's aren't attacking the are defending, I have always thought that i needed a DM or 2 Dm's but when i think about it now they where too deep and basically on top of my defenders so there might have been confusion between the roles. Maybe anyway.

The way i have my 2 CM's set up is that they defend higher up the pitch so the defenders do there job too. It is working well to say the least. Here is a result using this set up.

Discipline could be an issue though, I had 2 players sent off in this game.

[dan99]

12 CCC??!!?! Jesus Christ! Will be interesting to see how it does against a team playing a AMC, as that's when the last one struggled for me.

[maddison hoops]

CAN SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THERE TALKING ABOUT PLEASE ANSWER THIS. SORRY!! hi there! can anyone help, im looking for all player photos and team badges and also a nicer game interface! backround picturing. can anyone nice soul link me something to go along with my new tactic please! oh and maybe a small description on how to apply them to the game! thankyou so very much!!!.

[Mr Hough]

12 CCC??!!?! Jesus Christ! Will be interesting to see how it does against a team playing a AMC, as that's when the last one struggled for me.

I haven't come across that i'm gonna use OI's on the AMC see if that helps

[Mr Hough]

CAN SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THERE TALKING ABOUT PLEASE ANSWER THIS. SORRY!! hi there! can anyone help, im looking for all player photos and team badges and also a nicer game interface! backround picturing. can anyone nice soul link me something to go along with my new tactic please! oh and maybe a small description on how to apply them to the game! thankyou so very much!!!.

Right first off don't use Caps, Just annoying, There is a fantastic place called "The skinning section" have a look there, You'll find everything you need and more. If your not sure where to look here is the Link.

http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/17-Skinning-Hideout

[tmbt]

Hi Mr Hough,

I played using this tactic for some hours now. I feel like something is wrong. Here my observations :

The distance between the 2 dm and the wingers is too large and when my wingers have the ball theu are too far from the penalty area. The DM not support them enough and the only thing they can do is run with the ball. If the wingers are in front of hard fullback then they will never create anything.

I think also that when the opponent have 3 men midfield i always lost on of them and usually that guy have 2-3 CCC.

Im working now on a asymmetric formation based on your tactic but with 2 DM - 1 offensive CM and 1 Winger and 2 ST.

I will let you know

[Dirty Harry]

Nice one dude. I've been using winger tactics with my Chelsea team so far (1 seasons: 1 Leagues, 2LC, got knocked out in the first knock out round of CL), and i am about 2/5ths of the way through an new season. So putting this into my current game wasn't any hassle. Lampard is 44 now anyway and i've bought tons of awesome wingers.

So far, in comparison to my old tactics the team is playing better attacking wise without a doubt, the defending seems to be roughly the same so far...i'll need to wait till the end of this season to give a proper evaluation. So far though it looks great, is fun to play with and tinker with players wise and gives you exciting games and tons of goals. Thanks dude, especially for making it a new type of tactic and not a classic, if i was a chick i'd send you newds. ;D lol

To add something useful, if you don't have a good assissant manager to give you prematch advice it's a very good idea to listen to the actual pre-match advice as a bad assisstant manager who doesn't jave good tactical knowledge, man management and motivation won't give you any useful advice. A good one however will give you game changing advice.

ALSO, and probably most important, you've probably noticed this but, if you have a prematch advice session just before a backroom advice session and you attention the prematch one, then all the backroom knowledge will be gone. Wether it was to do with the team you're about to play or about you players in general. For some reason my rota has started giving me backroom advice sessions right after pre-mach advice seassion. If i go to the backroom one first i get the normal suggestions of who to tutor who, what moves to get people training etc. If i go to the prematch one first then i don't get anything in the backroom one.

[lostinmoments89]

Before testing your tactic Mr Hough I was using a rather straightforward 4-4-1-1 formation with attacking fullbacks/wingers and it was quite efficient.I've managed to retain the championship with Twente and had a decent run until UEFAcup's semifinals. It's quite balanced,filling the gaps in attack/defence nicely.I could send it to you for testing/improving if u like.Drop a PM

Cheers and keep up the good work.