Total Football: Tic-Tac Magick

[zinedremomeri]

Real Madrid_2007!!!Mate where r u?

By the way i keep on having huge success w/tic-tac home and away (won everything w/Galatasaray and Man. city.back to back and time and time again with both.i'm yet to lose a finals game with the away vers.)

knock on wood lol

[mibsweden]

witch of all the tactics in this thread is the best?? can inte be used by team like Leeds =???

I used the Standard tactic from the OP with great success with Leeds. You need a GOOD striker though in my experience.

[Sweez]

Very nice mate !!!! I use this Tactic with Hamburger SV and Ze Roberto has the first 5 Games 70 passes average ... In Cup agains Nürnberg he had 115 Passes and 103 complete .

happy to see you have success with it too , only thing i changed now is creativity MLC i kept like it was instead of the +1 ( not a lot of change tough )

[hsvruled]

happy to see you have success with it too , only thing i changed now is creativity MLC i kept like it was instead of the +1 ( not a lot of change tough )

[Sweez]

gonna start season 4, till now i've every cup possible to win

lasts seasons i had setup like this :

VDV (Canales ) - Sandro ( Hargreaves ) - Lamela ( Grenier )

now i 'm gonna reshape my midfield a bit as VDV didnt impress me lasts seasons and it's gonna be like this :

Huddlestone ( ? ) - Sandro (Kouyaté ) - Canales ( ?)

main reason : Lamela is better as amr i think

MCR dribbles more then mlc so Canales will fit better in mrc then mlc role i think

any ideas / tips who i could buy to fill the questionmarks ?

i'm thinking to buy pastore for the aml ( retrain him ofc) and then i could replace modric from aml to mlc .but pastore costs 50 mil . Hazard i don't need yet as i have Modric who's better i think . another name i think of is Gourcuff.

edit : might go for Alaba & Holzhauzer ( 2 austrian kids )

[shaunwwfc]

Want to use these tactics but reading through it all is very confusing and it seems people are talking about different versions so could someone please tell me which to download? Are the standard, possesion and attack versions the most up to date and have all the latest tweaks in them? or do i download and make changes to them? If so, which changes need to be made?

Thanks in advance for replies, sooner the better as very keen to use these. I love tactics that have a set.

[Sweez]

Want to use these tactics but reading through it all is very confusing and it seems people are talking about different versions so could someone please tell me which to download? Are the standard, possesion and attack versions the most up to date and have all the latest tweaks in them? or do i download and make changes to them? If so, which changes need to be made?

Thanks in advance for replies, sooner the better as very keen to use these. I love tactics that have a set.

take a look at post 836 . playmaker is the left centre mid . enjoy !

[weenathers]

Want to use these tactics but reading through it all is very confusing and it seems people are talking about different versions so could someone please tell me which to download? Are the standard, possesion and attack versions the most up to date and have all the latest tweaks in them? or do i download and make changes to them? If so, which changes need to be made?

Thanks in advance for replies, sooner the better as very keen to use these. I love tactics that have a set.

Home and Away are the most up to date from the OP, as far as the best one in the thread, that's opinion, I have used Bakermushs and fraklins, they both worked well for me. What I like about this thread is that alot of people have used the OP as a base and built their own through that, there's also been alot of debate which is why this thread is so long, only way to find out which one is the best for you is to try them all, different tactics work better in different situations, there's no one tactic that is better than all the rest.

[zinedremomeri]

Home and Away are the most up to date from the OP, as far as the best one in the thread, that's opinion, I have used Bakermushs and fraklins, they both worked well for me. What I like about this thread is that alot of people have used the OP as a base and built their own through that, there's also been alot of debate which is why this thread is so long, only way to find out which one is the best for you is to try them all, different tactics work better in different situations, there's no one tactic that is better than all the rest.

i agree with my friend here.that's why i favor this thread and this tac. over any other.(i'm using home and away to great success)

[Sweez]

i have switched mlc & mrc instructions at start of the 4th season (2013-2014 )

-> i will switch every 3-4 seasons to fool the AI .

[Flohrinho]

I also have changed back to this tactic since I somehow got bored with unrealistic tactics that made my team score 150 goals per season and beat Barca 7-1 in the CL semi final.

As said by many on here the opening post is also a great for building your own versions of the tactic which I did making a 4-1-2-2-1 (defending), 4-3-2-1 (standard/control) and a 4-2-3-1 (attacking), this way I have a lot of varity to play with without giving up the core mentality of this tactic but I feel I enjoy this way of playing much more then the plug&play way of using tactics.

[cragswfc]

I also have changed back to this tactic since I somehow got bored with unrealistic tactics that made my team score 150 goals per season and beat Barca 7-1 in the CL semi final.

As said by many on here the opening post is also a great for building your own versions of the tactic which I did making a 4-1-2-2-1 (defending), 4-3-2-1 (standard/control) and a 4-2-3-1 (attacking), this way I have a lot of varity to play with without giving up the core mentality of this tactic but I feel I enjoy this way of playing much more then the plug&play way of using tactics.

Like you say it what people prefer yes some tactic are very un-real but some people like that.

any how have you got he amc and the striker linking up well in your 4-2-3-1 formation

[kenek]

witch tactic is best for a team like Basel ???

[Realmadrid_2007]

Sorry I haven't been around in a while, but I am still working on improving this tactic.

To improve it, I feel I have to increase my understanding of how the mechanics of the ME work.

**

For example, Closing Down may seem quite simple, but on closer inspection you see how it is affected by Defensive Line and Mentality:

The player's Closing Down is essentially how far out of position that player will move to close down an opposition player with the ball. If you imagine Closing Down as a circle around the player's position; when an opposition player moves into this circle with the ball then your player will move to close down the opponent. The more you increase Closing Down, the greater the area of the circle becomes, so the further the player will move out of his position in order to win the ball from the opponent. Conversely, the lower the Closing Down of the player, the smaller the circle; thus, the player holds his position more.

But, if Closing Down is based on a player’s position, then what determines a player's position on the pitch? Primarily, there are 4 factors which determine the position of the player:

- Formation

- Mentality

- Defensive Line

- Width

The formation is simple, as it determines how your team shapes up on the pitch.

Mentality does two things; it positions a player AND it determines how attacking the player's passing is. Thus, a player on an attacking mentality will be positioned further up the pitch AND he will play more forward balls. For my system (as described in the OP) I like to set a base mentality for the team (11, 15, 18, etc) then reduce or increase some players' individual mentalities by 3 clicks so that they are more advanced or digressed in relation to the team (look at the average positions in the analysis section after a match. You'll see how the defensive minded midfielder will be digressed in his position when compared to the other two midfielders). Hence, we can see that the formation sets the shape of the team, but mentality determines where your player lines up in relation to the rest of the team.

For Defensive Line and Width, I want you to imagine the pitch as a 2D object (like that shown in the tactics screen). The length of the pitch we will call “X” the width of the pitch we will call “Y”.

Defensive Line roughly determines how high up the pitch your team plays. Therefore, the Defensive Line also determines the position of your players in the “X” direction. The Width determines the position of the team in the “Y” direction (with the ball).

So, it’s my belief that the ME calculates Closing Down in the following way:-

Team loses possession  Defensive Line value kicks in  The Mentality value for the player is then taken into account, thus the ME determines the player’s starting position on the pitch  Closing Down is then based on this position. Thus, your player will retreat back until the opposition player enters his closing down area.

**

I’ve rushed through the above explanation a bit, so it might not make much sense. Just trying to let you guys know I’m still working on this

By knowing the mechanics of the ME, we can then implement more effectively our ideas as to how we want our team to play. It’s taking FM to a whole new scientific level…hopefully.

[zinedremomeri]

wow realmadrid_2007 is back...

welcome back mate!!!

[Flohrinho]

Sorry I haven't been around in a while, but I am still working on improving this tactic.

To improve it, I feel I have to increase my understanding of how the mechanics of the ME work.

**

For example, Closing Down may seem quite simple, but on closer inspection you see how it is affected by Defensive Line and Mentality:

The player's Closing Down is essentially how far out of position that player will move to close down an opposition player with the ball. If you imagine Closing Down as a circle around the player's position; when an opposition player moves into this circle with the ball then your player will move to close down the opponent. The more you increase Closing Down, the greater the area of the circle becomes, so the further the player will move out of his position in order to win the ball from the opponent. Conversely, the lower the Closing Down of the player, the smaller the circle; thus, the player holds his position more.

But, if Closing Down is based on a player’s position, then what determines a player's position on the pitch? Primarily, there are 4 factors which determine the position of the player:

- Formation

- Mentality

- Defensive Line

- Width

The formation is simple, as it determines how your team shapes up on the pitch.

Mentality does two things; it positions a player AND it determines how attacking the player's passing is. Thus, a player on an attacking mentality will be positioned further up the pitch AND he will play more forward balls. For my system (as described in the OP) I like to set a base mentality for the team (11, 15, 18, etc) then reduce or increase some players' individual mentalities by 3 clicks so that they are more advanced or digressed in relation to the team (look at the average positions in the analysis section after a match. You'll see how the defensive minded midfielder will be digressed in his position when compared to the other two midfielders). Hence, we can see that the formation sets the shape of the team, but mentality determines where your player lines up in relation to the rest of the team.

For Defensive Line and Width, I want you to imagine the pitch as a 2D object (like that shown in the tactics screen). The length of the pitch we will call “X” the width of the pitch we will call “Y”.

Defensive Line roughly determines how high up the pitch your team plays. Therefore, the Defensive Line also determines the position of your players in the “X” direction. The Width determines the position of the team in the “Y” direction (with the ball).

So, it’s my belief that the ME calculates Closing Down in the following way:-

Team loses possession  Defensive Line value kicks in  The Mentality value for the player is then taken into account, thus the ME determines the player’s starting position on the pitch  Closing Down is then based on this position. Thus, your player will retreat back until the opposition player enters his closing down area.

**

I’ve rushed through the above explanation a bit, so it might not make much sense. Just trying to let you guys know I’m still working on this

By knowing the mechanics of the ME, we can then implement more effectively our ideas as to how we want our team to play. It’s taking FM to a whole new scientific level…hopefully.

Hey great to have you back Realmadrid_2007 and even better to see you working on the defensive end of your tactics philosophy because this is because this is a field where I usually do everything by trial and error and don't really understand the mechanics all too well, so looking forward to what you have to say about this.

One thing I noticed though is that in order to get your team to close down like Barcelona your defenders will need a very attacking mentality, high closing down and hard tackling which unfortunately will have them also play very risky in defense and make a lot of mistakes. I had a thought about combining this personal attacking mentality with an overall more careful team approach, that tries to keep possession in attack, might balance out the very risky attacking mentality of your defenders when it comes to offense.

So I hope you can develop something that comes close to Barcas closing down style of play.

[drhay53]

I don't it's possible to mimic barca defensively because you can never really get more than one player to close someone down at a time.

[Gee_Simpson]

Great to have you back, Realmadrid_2007

[Realmadrid_2007]

Good to be back

[krytter]

Wow. How did you manage to get so many passes with Ze Roberto? In my Inter side in 2014 I have Sneijder as mcr and Thiago Motta as MCL (and playmaker, I use the tactic by Sweez). But it is very rare that Sneijder get more than 65-70 passes a game?

[UPNATEM]

Beat Olympiakos 2-1 away with the mighty Linfield and qualified for Europa League.. easily my greatest achievement so far!

[dking]

Edited away tactic link isn't working.

[ibro46]

AML and AMR as a inside forward ???

mean AML with good right foot and AMR witj good left foot ???

[ibro46]

and wich tactic to use The Standard tactic or Home Tactic ?? whats the diferenc??

soory for my poor english

[Flohrinho]

I don't it's possible to mimic barca defensively because you can never really get more than one player to close someone down at a time.

I think the main problem is a totally different one even closing down with one player can put up enough pressure for him to pass the ball but you can't get your players to close down other players that are not currently involved in the game, which means you can't take away his passing options. One of the major strength of Barcas closing down style is the fact that they don't only close down the player with the ball but also the men around him to take way his easy passing options thus the player has to either back pass the ball or try a long risky ball which can be easily intercepted.

What good does it do you to put pressure on a player when there are so many passing options around

[Realmadrid_2007]

I think the main problem is a totally different one even closing down with one player can put up enough pressure for him to pass the ball but you can't get your players to close down other players that are not currently involved in the game, which means you can't take away his passing options. One of the major strength of Barcas closing down style is the fact that they don't only close down the player with the ball but also the men around him to take way his easy passing options thus the player has to either back pass the ball or try a long risky ball which can be easily intercepted.

What good does it do you to put pressure on a player when there are so many passing options around

I completely agree with you Flohrinho. Barcelona effectively play a basketball style of defence, whereby they pressure the opposition and look for an interception as opposed to a tackle. In FM the only way to do this seems to be by playing a high Defensive Line and high Closing Down. With the high Defensive Line your players are pressed up against the opposition, so you effectively have 1 opposition player being in the "Closing Down zone" of two players. It's still not as effective though and it can lead to players being out of position. To try and prevent this, I dropped the mentalities of the centre backs so as they fall a little bit below the Defensive Line, thus being slightly deeper. BUT, this then leads to opposition AMCs being able to take advantage of the space between defence and midfield!!

I'm thinking the tactics might benefit from being converted to the 4-1-2-2W-1, 4-3-2W-1 and 4-2-3-1. Hopefully, with the different formations we might be able to exploit more situations without having to change our style too much.

In the 4-1-2-2W-1 formation, the DMC could have a more attacking mentality to push him further forward. In the 4-2-3-1 formation, the AMC could have a more defensive mentality so as he drops deeper. By doing this, the midfield trio will still be closely linked.

[Flohrinho]

I completely agree with you Flohrinho. Barcelona effectively play a basketball style of defence, whereby they pressure the opposition and look for an interception as opposed to a tackle. In FM the only way to do this seems to be by playing a high Defensive Line and high Closing Down. With the high Defensive Line your players are pressed up against the opposition, so you effectively have 1 opposition player being in the "Closing Down zone" of two players. It's still not as effective though and it can lead to players being out of position. To try and prevent this, I dropped the mentalities of the centre backs so as they fall a little bit below the Defensive Line, thus being slightly deeper. BUT, this then leads to opposition AMCs being able to take advantage of the space between defence and midfield!!

I'm thinking the tactics might benefit from being converted to the 4-1-2-2W-1, 4-3-2W-1 and 4-2-3-1. Hopefully, with the different formations we might be able to exploit more situations without having to change our style too much.

In the 4-1-2-2W-1 formation, the DMC could have a more attacking mentality to push him further forward. In the 4-2-3-1 formation, the AMC could have a more defensive mentality so as he drops deeper. By doing this, the midfield trio will still be closely linked.

Hey that's exactly what I do I have those three formations in match prep with different mentality, passing, width and tempo settings within 3 clicks from each other. The 4-1-2-2W-1 is has the most defensive settings, the 4-2-3-1 has the most offensive settings. This allows me to have all three formation at fluid and change during the game within a range of 6 steps in those settings as well change between formations if needed. So far it works quite well, allows me a lot of flexibility and prevents me from getting to predictable.

Defensive wise I think your tactic is actually as good as it I manage to keep a clean sheet in most of my games with it and usually have the best defense in the league. I sometimes set my fullbacks more offensive against weaker oppositions since I feel it's sometimes necessary to have some width in order to break down those teams that play very defensively against me.

[ibro46]

whick tactics is better standard or home ??

[theboot]

Very early days i know but 25minutes into my very first game with this tactic and im currently 4-0 up!

[Corkey]

I completely agree with you Flohrinho. Barcelona effectively play a basketball style of defence, whereby they pressure the opposition and look for an interception as opposed to a tackle. In FM the only way to do this seems to be by playing a high Defensive Line and high Closing Down. With the high Defensive Line your players are pressed up against the opposition, so you effectively have 1 opposition player being in the "Closing Down zone" of two players. It's still not as effective though and it can lead to players being out of position. To try and prevent this, I dropped the mentalities of the centre backs so as they fall a little bit below the Defensive Line, thus being slightly deeper. BUT, this then leads to opposition AMCs being able to take advantage of the space between defence and midfield!!

I'm thinking the tactics might benefit from being converted to the 4-1-2-2W-1, 4-3-2W-1 and 4-2-3-1. Hopefully, with the different formations we might be able to exploit more situations without having to change our style too much.

In the 4-1-2-2W-1 formation, the DMC could have a more attacking mentality to push him further forward. In the 4-2-3-1 formation, the AMC could have a more defensive mentality so as he drops deeper. By doing this, the midfield trio will still be closely linked.

Are these somthing that your working on?

[Realmadrid_2007]

whick tactics is better standard or home ??

Home and Away tactics are the newer versions. Personally, I believe the Home tactic is the better one because the striker seems to score more (I took off the Hold Up Ball option). There are quite a few modified tactics because people have been tweaking them to suit their teams -- This is the best way to use the tactic.

Flohrinho: Yeah, I think the fullbacks are key for Barcelona in the sense that they allow the game to be spread. Good to hear you've created these tactics and had success with them

Corkey: I haven't made them yet. I think I'll try it tonight and play a few games with them. I've just finished my 2nd season and Villa had 70+ goals for all competitions. He'd played in 60 odd games, but I'm happy with 1 goal/game average

[mibsweden]

I thought the point of this thread was to play to the strengths of the match engine, not weaknesses. I always liked this tactic becasue it tried to treat FM like football, not a football game. I really hope you don't turn it into such a tactic Realmadrid.

[theboot]

Ah Home and away are the newer versions then are they? Will download right now,just won Wigan 5-0 with the original attacking formation but i will move with the times.

Great tactic!!

[ibro46]

tnx to explain

[Sweez]

AML and AMR as a inside forward ???

mean AML with good right foot and AMR witj good left foot ???

yes mate thats right

[Sweez]

Wow. How did you manage to get so many passes with Ze Roberto? In my Inter side in 2014 I have Sneijder as mcr and Thiago Motta as MCL (and playmaker, I use the tactic by Sweez). But it is very rare that Sneijder get more than 65-70 passes a game?

new tweaks : playmaker fwd runs rarely

D-line +2 ( on 2nd notch of "push up " )

[Corkey]

Deos this work with poor quality teams for their league, ie. Blackpool?

[dan99]

Deos this work with poor quality teams for their league, ie. Blackpool?

I got it working very well with Newcastle in the first season. A couple of good signings, but nothing special.

[Corkey]

I got it working very well with Newcastle in the first season. A couple of good signings, but nothing special.

Thanks mate, hoping to possibly use this as Career Save over lots of different clubs. I would never drop below Serie A, La Liga, Ligue 1, Budaslega or Premier League... So Blackpool would probaley the worst team that I would ever go near...

I was wondering what the best version is? as there are soo many different links and such that I'm struggling to keep up!

[ibro46]

what arw you say about this:

--------------------Iaquinta-----------------

Giovinco---------------------------------Hulk

---------Sahin(PL)----Sissoko-----Pjanic-----

De ceglie------Chiellini---Bonucci------V.d.wiel

-------------------Buffon--------------------

???

[dan99]

Thanks mate, hoping to possibly use this as Career Save over lots of different clubs. I would never drop below Serie A, La Liga, Ligue 1, Budaslega or Premier League... So Blackpool would probaley the worst team that I would ever go near...

I was wondering what the best version is? as there are soo many different links and such that I'm struggling to keep up!

I personally use Barkermush's version.

what arw you say about this:

--------------------Iaquinta-----------------

Giovinco---------------------------------Hulk

---------Sahin(PL)----Sissoko-----Pjanic-----

De ceglie------Chiellini---Bonucci------V.d.wiel

-------------------Buffon--------------------

???

Not too sure about Iaquinta, I like a quick little striker. Gamerio is perfect. Rest of the team looks good, Hulk should rip teams apart on the right.

[Corkey]

I personally use Barkermush's version.

Okay, is it a single version? or deos it have a Home and Away format? Playmaker?

Any Match Prep?

Cheers

[dan99]

Okay, is it a single version? or deos it have a Home and Away format? Playmaker?

Any Match Prep?

Cheers

Yeah it is. Playmaker is the left of the 3 midfielders. I used Joey Barton there for the whole of the first season, although he tires 70 minutes into the game. Saying that, he did have the highest average rating in the Prem, so I wasn't complaining! I had match prep on team blend, nothing beats a well blended team.

[Corkey]

Yeah it is. Playmaker is the left of the 3 midfielders. I used Joey Barton there for the whole of the first season, although he tires 70 minutes into the game. Saying that, he did have the highest average rating in the Prem, so I wasn't complaining! I had match prep on team blend, nothing beats a well blended team.

Okay Brilliant, and finally, any useful OIs to help this tactic?

[dan99]

Okay Brilliant, and finally, any useful OIs to help this tactic?

Sometimes if a player has low bravery and tackling I'll hard tackle him, sometimes if a player is one footed I'll force him onto his weaker foot, but never tight marking/closing down. It's detrimental to the settings used.

[ibro46]

I personally use Barkermush's version.

Not too sure about Iaquinta, I like a quick little striker. Gamerio is perfect. Rest of the team looks good, Hulk should rip teams apart on the right.

for iaquinta i agree i have paloschi talented striker but i need to buy one good striker!!

and another thing: can i give in opposition instruction tackling and show onto foot to my opponent?

[dan99]

for iaquinta i agree i have paloschi talented striker but i need to buy one good striker!!

and another thing: can i give in opposition instruction tackling and show onto foot to my opponent?

Don't understand the last question. I personally use it only occasionally, so it's certainly not a must.

[ibro46]

i mean if i can use OI for opponent players ( but only show onto foot and tackling!!! ) ?

[ibro46]

Barkemush: What is the difference between your tactics? 4-5-1 Sexy (Bradford, Aug 2019) and 4-5-1 Sexy (Liverpool, Dec 2026) ?

[Realmadrid_2007]

mibsweden: No, I'm definitely not trying to exploit any weaknesses in the ME. Personally, I believe the ME is too good to exploit weaknesses because its strengths outweigh its weaknesses. The only possible exploitations are from corners, but I haven't used this. I'm just trying to find out how the ME works so that I can better implement real life football. The poll is there to show this isn't a cheat tactic.

For Barcelona, I increased everybody's Creative Freedom by 3 clicks -- It caused Messi (full creative freedom) to start cutting inside and my fullbacks began to carry the ball forward and into space. I guess Barcelona in real life actually allow Messi, Xavi, etc to do whatever they want. But this is truly a world class team, so I'm not sure how lower teams will perform when given such freedom.