Off Topic Thread: Hey lurkers, post ffs!!

[Gizmo7]

True, but it's a huge gamble Man United have taken on him. A season out on loan to a Premier League club where he'll be playing week-in-week-out would do him the world of good, really hope he doesn't just sit on United's bench playing 10 games a season. At these early stages I just can't see him turning in to a £15M+ player that United rate him as.

[AcidBurn]

Admittidly I haven't seen much of Wickham so hopefully he impresses me, but the other two are just dire.

Don't get me wrong he's not great or we'd play him every week.

I think Zaha will be decent enough he's still young and once Man United iron out what he's poor at and if he improves his end product he'll be a very very good players, he's no Nick Powell though.

[D0bi]

Sordell's alright on his day, it's just he's usually to busy tweeting to bother about what's going on on the pitch.

[SRL88]

AcidBurn's Nick Powell love is on similar levels to my Gylfi love .

[AcidBurn]

It certainly is! Gylfi was also at Crewe for a while took a decent penalty but didn't look like he'd turn out as good as he has.

[SRL88]

He just came from out of nowhere really. Had a fantastic season at Reading, went to Hoffenheim and just developed massively there before making a name for himself to everyone in England with Swansea. Gutted he didn't join us instead of Spurs.

[AcidBurn]

I'm just gutted he didn't join anywhere where he would actually play wasted at Spurs.

[tomtuck01]

I'm just gutted he didn't join anywhere where he would actually play wasted at Spurs.

The problem he has at Spurs is that they signed him after seeing him perform so well for Swansea in one position/role, and then played him in another. That's why he's wasted.

[AcidBurn]

The problem he has at Spurs is that they signed him after seeing him perform so well for Swansea in one position/role, and then played him in another. That's why he's wasted.

Always a gamble to do that with a player, sometimes it works and sometimes it fails.

[fmFutbolManager]

Is Martinez really that good though? I know you can throw stats around to prove any point you want really, but the same net Spending as Everton over the last five years but with a win percentage less than 25% is a pretty damning poor in comparison. Is that down to his scouting network not being as good, or him not getting the best out if his players, I don't know. However, injuries are costly as you say.Only time will tell and if Everton are in the bottom half next season I guess that'll be conclusive enough for me. If he gets a top 6 then job well done.

What he's good at you can't teach, what he's poor at can be taught.

I had exactly the same argument with some moron on twitter. Claiming he's all tricks with no end product. I seem to remember the same being said about another winger of ours...

[retrodude09]

I'm with Cleon if I've read it correctly, I'd rather see Martinez go to Malaga. Everton aren't the right club for him to enhance his reputation as unless they get investment, they've gone as far as they can go but Malaga would be a nice little project for him.

[ssestig]

AcidBurn's Nick Powell love is on similar levels to my Gylfi love .

Nothing compared to my love for Powell

[Cleon]

This Dutch u21 side is sheer brilliant. Not quite sure why they haven't been made favourites by the bookmakers. This Dutch side could win the next world cup they are that good.

[Cleon]

Is Martinez really that good though? I know you can throw stats around to prove any point you want really, but the same net Spending as Everton over the last five years but with a win percentage less than 25% is a pretty damning poor in comparison. Is that down to his scouting network not being as good, or him not getting the best out if his players, I don't know. However, injuries are costly as you say.Only time will tell and if Everton are in the bottom half next season I guess that'll be conclusive enough for me. If he gets a top 6 then job well done.I had exactly the same argument with some moron on twitter. Claiming he's all tricks with no end product. I seem to remember the same being said about another winger of ours...

I see you've took that stat out of context. The same net spending which averages around £12.1 million a season spent? Peanuts that. You can't compare Everton to Wigan because one is a lot bigger and had good players and didn't lose their star man every season. The other club is a small club who have been punching above their weight for past 5+ seasons. Just as they make improvements to the team they yet again lose their star man to a bigger club. They are forced to spend due to needing to find a replacement.

Not sure why you'd blame poor scouting or not getting the best out of players for that issue. You could argue their scouting Network is better because they always unearth a gem every season and then make a sizeable profit when they sell him. That's how the smaller clubs stays afloat.

[fmFutbolManager]

I see you've took that stat out of context. The same net spending which averages around £12.1 million a season spent? Peanuts that. You can't compare Everton to Wigan because one is a lot bigger and had good players and didn't lose their star man every season. The other club is a small club who have been punching above their weight for past 5+ seasons. Just as they make improvements to the team they yet again lose their star man to a bigger club. They are forced to spend due to needing to find a replacement.

Not sure why you'd blame poor scouting or not getting the best out of players for that issue. You could argue their scouting Network is better because they always unearth a gem every season and then make a sizeable profit when they sell him. That's how the smaller clubs stays afloat.

As I said, lets see how he does with Everton next season.

[tomtuck01]

That's just a cracking comeback there, what an argument.

[fmFutbolManager]

I made my point. I didn't really have anything more to add. I could throw more stats at an argument, and more would come back. All our opinions are relatively subjective, with some stats thrown in for good measure. None of us are football experts.

His win percentage isn't great. He's been fighting relegation the past 4 seasons with only 38 wins in over 150 games. West Brom, Fulham and Swansea spent the same amount of money on players, if not less and they're all doing okay with finishes in 8th, 15th and 9th respectively last season.

As I pointed out you can pluck out any stats you want to put an argument in your favour. For example, this is last years significant injuries...

Doesn't show Wigan to be suffering too badly.

That's why I finished with 'we will see how he does at Everton' as the benchmark is there, with Moyes finishing in the top 8 in the past 5 seasons compared to Wigan finishing 15th or lower (except for their 11th place 5 years ago).

[SRL88]

Back to work today. Got a job to apply for in Wallsend which I will be doing today.

[tomtuck01]

I'd love to know what you define a "football expert" as?

[Cleon]

I made my point. I didn't really have anything more to add. I could throw more stats at an argument, and more would come back. All our opinions are relatively subjective, with some stats thrown in for good measure. None of us are football experts.

His win percentage isn't great. He's been fighting relegation the past 4 seasons with only 38 wins in over 150 games. West Brom, Fulham and Swansea spent the same amount of money on players, if not less and they're all doing okay with finishes in 8th, 15th and 9th respectively last season.

As I pointed out you can pluck out any stats you want to put an argument in your favour. For example, this is last years significant injuries...

Doesn't show Wigan to be suffering too badly.

That's why I finished with 'we will see how he does at Everton' as the benchmark is there, with Moyes finishing in the top 8 in the past 5 seasons compared to Wigan finishing 15th or lower (except for their 11th place 5 years ago).

Again though you are throwing stats about but using them out of context. The injuries Wigan had last season where nearly all at the same time and for around the same length. So yes they did suffer badly. Plus every single squad in that list had bigger squads than Wigan.

Your comparison isn't a valid one either using the Everton benchmark against Wigan. That's like comparing Arsenal to Stoke. Both teams had different goals and where fighting different battles. Everton have been a decent squad for years and it took Moyes time to build it to the point where it was last season and this one.

Everton have been a top flight side forever, only spending 4 seasons out of the top flight in 120 years. Where as Wigan are new and was still playing in the lower leagues 17 years ago. So there rise has been relativity quick in comparison because Everton are already established. They haven't had the same backing as Everton have finance wise either. Now I know Everton don't have lots of money but they are a much bigger club with a bigger fanbase. The income both teams get are drastically different and the only way for Wigan to make money is through player sales because the club doesn't make anything from gates.

And if you actually look at it Moyes sides actually went backwards following the 2005 season and went from 4th to 11th. The same can be said the end of the 2009 season, Everton have finished lower in the league ever since until this season. So you can't even compare the 2 clubs against each other, its ludicrous to even attempt to do so.

Even though he has a low win percentage he's still won more in his short managerial career than Moyes has and what job has Moyes just got? ;)

Like I said originally though, whoever got the Everton job has a hard task. Not replacing Moyes and the great job he did but the biggest struggle is the ageing squad as I feel the squad has peaked now.

[fmFutbolManager]

I wasn't using Everton as a benchmark against Wigan. I was using Everton's finishes under Moyes as a benchmark for Martinez taking Everton forward. For me, Martinez must finish in the top 10.

Assuming he will have the same budget as Moyes has always had. He will inherit the squad Moyes had unless David decides to take a couple with him to Everton, or Everton decide to sell up. And I'm not so sure Everton are an ageing squad. They have a good balance of youth and experience. Some of their better players are the right side of 30, but their defence is ageing I'll give you that.

I agree it's going to be a struggle for Martinez there, but provided he can keep some of the better players and supplement the ageing defence he should do alright.

Where would you think an acceptable finishing position would be for him in his first season?

[Cleon]

I wasn't using Everton as a benchmark against Wigan. I was using Everton's finishes under Moyes as a benchmark for Martinez taking Everton forward. For me, Martinez must finish in the top 10.

Assuming he will have the same budget as Moyes has always had. He will inherit the squad Moyes had unless David decides to take a couple with him to Everton, or Everton decide to sell up. And I'm not so sure Everton are an ageing squad. They have a good balance of youth and experience. Some of their better players are the right side of 30, but their defence is ageing I'll give you that.

I agree it's going to be a struggle for Martinez there, but provided he can keep some of the better players and supplement the ageing defence he should do alright.

Where would you think an acceptable finishing position would be for him in his first season?

He hasn't got the same squad though. They've released a few, Nevilles gone etc and I expect Fellani to be gone in the summer. I think a top half finish next season would be good anything else a bonus. There is a massive rebuild needed at Goodison. Give Martinez the time and some money to play with and I think he can take them to the next step. I'm just unsure Everton can actually progress due to the financial side of things.

[fmFutbolManager]

Who else has left? Their website says only Phil Neville on a free transfer.

As for their finances, they have the 8th highest turnover in the league, and with the TV money coming in next season they should be able to compete with those around them in the middle of the table. They're never going to compete with the top 6 financially, and the wage bill is a problem, spending 78% of their turnover on wages.

If they can move on some of the older players who must be some of the better earners it should free up more money for better young players on smaller pay.

[fmFutbolManager]

Rumours today include Fabregas and Thiago on Moyes' wish list.

[tomtuck01]

Key word is "rumours".

[fmFutbolManager]

Nothing gets past you Tom, does it.

[SRL88]

Better than Sky Sources which can get very annoying when it happens 20 times a day .

[tomtuck01]

Nothing gets past you Tom, does it.

Be a lamb, and stop behaving like an arsehole.

[Cleon]

The Thiago stuff comes from the interview he did in the Spanish magazine earlier in the week. He mentioned that De Gea say's he'd love to see him at United and the papers have picked this up and linked him.

[fmFutbolManager]

You don't think there's any truth to the rumours?

[Cleon]

You don't think there's any truth to the rumours?

Not sure. I think it could just all be tied into the interview and it been taken of out context so the papers just link him to Man Utd because they need a midfielder. personally I don't think he'd be suited to England. He's more a Spanish/Italian player imo.

[tomtuck01]

tied into the interview and it been taken of out context

Would go with this.

However, have read that because some clause of other in his contract, (relating to how much game time he gets), he can leave before July 31st for around €20million.

[fmFutbolManager]

I heard about that clause, too. I've not seen Thiago play so no idea if he's suited to the PL or not. It'll be interesting to see who Moyes has lines up. Hopefully he doesn't go in for Fellaini.

[SRL88]

Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink .

[Nottingham Forest]

So happy for JFH. Liked him when he was with us as a coach. He'll be back at Forest on the 20th July as well.

[tomtuck01]

So a couple of todays papers claim we're among a few clubs willing to pay £80million for Bale. Seriously, where do they come up with this stuff?

[fmFutbolManager]

They're also claiming that Pellegrini has chosen his next project. Appears he had the choice between City and PSG. Not sure what swayed his decision...

[SRL88]

Such awful weather here today .

[Cleon]

Such awful weather here today .

Bloody miserable here too. Gotta take Lily for her injections at half 2 as well

[SRL88]

Bloody miserable here too. Gotta take Lily for her injections at half 2 as well

I think I am taking a half day today. I can't see me doing much when I finish with it being like this.

[RTHerringbone]

Sounds like you Northern guys have the weather we had down South yesterday - proper bobbins.

I found this to be a strangely enjoyable quiz: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/quiz/2013/may/29/football-quiz-name-stadiums-aerial-view

[SRL88]

8 out of 10. Darn.

[tomtuck01]

Poo here in Leeds too. Nevermind, it's not like i was planning on doing much after work.

[retrodude09]

Now we have glorious sunshine. Typical England.

[RTHerringbone]

I've just been told that I walk like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

I took it as an insult, but it apparently means I have a "relaxed gait".

Second pointless comment: Just listened to "Jumping Jack Flash" by The Rolling Stones, cracking tune for a sunny day.

[SRL88]

Glorious sunshine indeed.

Just booked tickets to go to Leeds Festival for the Saturday. Mainly to see System of a Down really .

[tomtuck01]

Just booked tickets to go to Leeds Festival for the Saturday. Mainly to see System of a Down really .

More like you're just eager to be near me. I feel the love.

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And yes the sun is lovely. It's like 21 degrees here.

[SRL88]

That's it Tom. I clearly didn't cover it up well enough .

[retrodude09]

Wasn't impressed on the Leeds line-up this year. Looked to me like they splurged the majority of their budget on three acts and then didn't know what to do from there.

I like the look of V but that's because of Kings of Leon mainly.

----

It's a lovely day and I'm sat inside. Woe is me.

[SRL88]

I'm not impressed with any festivals this year really. Download looks **** which is the one I would have gone to out of any if the line-up was decent. I'm not keen much at Leeds, but Saturday is definitely the better day. Other than While she Sleeps & Bring me the Horizon I am happy to listen to everything on the main stage on the Saturday. If the Friday had been better I might have gone to that because Biffy are fantastic live.