Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[herne79]

6 hours ago, jasonbuids said:

I have a question about player's PA.
Is it a fixed number at the new game, or it will change after some time?

It's fixed.

[b101]

So I've just come up against a properly defensive formation that I couldn't work out how to attack and wondered what others might do. It's not that odd of a formation, but it was one of those where I could not get through and create any chances.

Both systems originally, with Porto's very defensive 3-4-3 - I normally have an IF (A) on the right wing and a BBM at MCL, but changed due to injuries. The aim is for the DLF (S) to drag the CBs around for space for the IFs to attack. I originally thought that it would make more sense for my right winger to actually attack the byeline and try to put a cross in for the striker to profit from. 

:

So, my thought was then to try to draw the two DMCs out of their holding slots using our CMs and DMC before attacking that space or leaving the striker one on one with the centre back in the middle. I changed to this:

DLP (S) should push further up, necessitating someone to close him down. Both WBs pushing up more should mean that their WBs and AML/AMR have a choice to make. The CM roles change to give us a bit more movement and the striker moves to a CF (S) to occupy the centre backs more. I think I probably changed way too much, but there was a sort of logic - more movement with role changes meaning their defensive players have to make a choice or we could make space...

Our shots at the end of the game and the match stats:

 

All in all, we got very lucky in that our one mistake at the back didn't cost us and one of the long shots scored. We did create a couple of other decent chances that the game didn't recognise as half/clear chances, but still got away with one.

So, two questions:

1) Is there a better formation than mine to attack this sort of formation?

2) Should I have tweaked the shouts rather than the roles? We don't really have quality wingers or full backs, as my other thought might have been to really pummel the wings.

Any help or thoughts much appreciated! 

[ZoDiAC_]

On 09/08/2018 at 11:02, herne79 said:

Potential doesn't really impact Traits.  A few things may be happening here:

1) Your coach might be wrong.  Even the best coaches aren't infallible and you're free to ignore their advice.

2) The player may have low Versatility.  Versatility is a hidden attribute and can affect the likelihood or amount of Traits a player may be able to learn.

3) The player may have low Ambition and Determination.  As with Versatility, low ratings here can affect a player's ability to learn Traits.

I just want to add the stats of the latest player this happened with

"He already has enough about his game", well, he doesn't!

 he has great versatility:

 

 

My Assistant Manager advised

Edited August 12, 2018 by ZoDiAC_

[herne79]

8 minutes ago, ZoDiAC_ said:

he has great versatility:

He also has great CA for an 18 year old...

[ZoDiAC_]

4 minutes ago, herne79 said:

He also has great CA for an 18 year old...

So why is this response coming up, any ideas?

Edited August 12, 2018 by ZoDiAC_

[herne79]

2 minutes ago, ZoDiAC_ said:

So why is this response coming up, any ideas?

The coach could still be wrong.

Also - and this is pure speculation on my part - perhaps once a player's CA gets so high (regardless of age) your coaches do indeed think he has enough about his game.

@Seb Wassell  Is there some form of CA threshold which could generate a coach's response of "he already has enough about his game" to a Trait training request?  Above we have an 18 year old player with a CA of 166 where coaches make this response to Trait training requests.

[ZoDiAC_]

Good idea. I have tested this.

I edited his CA down a lot:



But no difference. Whatever it is, it's not CA of the player.



I find this VERY easy to reproduce so if you think I should post in the bugs forum just say!

[herne79]

29 minutes ago, ZoDiAC_ said:

I edited his CA down a lot:

There's a difference between CA and RCA, which is generated by the attributes.  Just dropping the CA won't immediately drop the high attributes (and thus the RCA) unless you edit them down as well.

Lets wait and see if Seb can shed any light on this.  In the mean time and to help progress your game, you could always edit in the Traits you want.  Or just tell your coach to do as you want and see if the Trait training does work.

[MaxAlegri]

So I'm playing FM in a while and get a bit confused about the tactics...

Do you guys use to switch your starting tactic on a weekly basis or you play with one(successful) tactic every week?
I asking about this because I realize that no matter how good my tactic is and how many wins it achieved me, after a few rounds it is not working good enough. My explanation is that the opposite manager has made his homework preparing for the match and I should change something to surprise him.

[herne79]

33 minutes ago, MaxAlegri said:

So I'm playing FM in a while and get a bit confused about the tactics...

Do you guys use to switch your starting tactic on a weekly basis or you play with one(successful) tactic every week?
I asking about this because I realize that no matter how good my tactic is and how many wins it achieved me, after a few rounds it is not working good enough. My explanation is that the opposite manager has made his homework preparing for the match and I should change something to surprise him.

Welcome to the forum .

What tends to happen is AI managers may change how they play against you based on your form and/or reputation.  So if you have a period of good results your opponents may play a little more cautiously against you for example.  This can even happen during a match - the AI may switch to a more defensive system when trying to defend a lead for instance, or take more risks when trying to get back on terms with you or nick a late winner.

Different people will react to that in different ways.  Some will have a 2nd or 3rd tactic to use.  Others will chop and change things before each match.  Some will stick with one core tactic and make small changes during the course of each match if needed.  There's no right or wrong way to go about it, just whatever you are most comfortable with .

[mikcheck]

Hello all,

I have a question  that it's more related to FM17. I've created a strikerless tactic with 3 AM's  but it was with surprise that i've read that  strikerless systems can be considered cheating or overpowered. I've never thought that could be possible nowdays.

Do you feel the same? Because if it does, then I dont want to play that tactic.

Edited August 13, 2018 by mikcheck

[kingjericho]

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

Hello all,

I have a question  that it's more related to FM17. I've created a strikerless tactic with 3 AM's  but it was with surprise that i've read that  strikerless systems can be considered cheating or overpowered. I've never thought that could be possible nowdays.

Do you feel the same? Because if it does, then I dont want to play that tactic.

As far as I remember there wasn't a 'cheat' tactic for FM17. This year using 3 strikers and wing backs seems to exploit the match engine, but that's about it.

[Hovis Dexter]

We know that the IA changes its formation, mentality and team shape. Do we know if it uses TIs and PIs?

[herne79]

1 minute ago, Hovis Dexter said:

We know that the IA changes its formation, mentality and team shape. Do we know if it uses TIs and PIs?

It does, yes.

[Hovis Dexter]

2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

It does, yes.

It would be fascinating if we could see what they are

[Seb Wassell]

13 hours ago, herne79 said:

The coach could still be wrong.

Also - and this is pure speculation on my part - perhaps once a player's CA gets so high (regardless of age) your coaches do indeed think he has enough about his game.

@Seb Wassell  Is there some form of CA threshold which could generate a coach's response of "he already has enough about his game" to a Trait training request?  Above we have an 18 year old player with a CA of 166 where coaches make this response to Trait training requests.

There is a maximum number of Player Traits that a player can learn, which varies based on Versatility. This indicates that player has reached that number.

[herne79]

@ZoDiAC_  See Seb's reply above.

[mikcheck]

5 hours ago, kingjericho said:

As far as I remember there wasn't a 'cheat' tactic for FM17. This year using 3 strikers and wing backs seems to exploit the match engine, but that's about it.

Because now that I'm playing a strikerless formation i've created I feel like i'm cheating somehow lol and that takes the fun away from me.

[herne79]

20 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Because now that I'm playing a strikerless formation i've created I feel like i'm cheating somehow lol and that takes the fun away from me.

I know you've commented in my Strikerless thread.  That uses the game's mechanics to create a system originally inspired by Roma's strikerless 41410.

It's not cheating when you use game mechanics to create a winning formula.  Were Roma cheating when they beat (almost) everyone in 2006?  Was Pep cheating when he won everything with Barcelona?  So how are you cheating if your system is successful?  Unless you are somehow manipulating the data using an Editor or you've hacked the code...

Be happy!  You're winning!

[mikcheck]

Thanks!

[MaxAlegri]

21 hours ago, herne79 said:

I know you've commented in my Strikerless thread.  That uses the game's mechanics to create a system originally inspired by Roma's strikerless 41410.

It's not cheating when you use game mechanics to create a winning formula.  Were Roma cheating when they beat (almost) everyone in 2006?  Was Pep cheating when he won everything with Barcelona?  So how are you cheating if your system is successful?  Unless you are somehow manipulating the data using an Editor or you've hacked the code...

Be happy!  You're winning!

Wasn't the same year that Man U outclassed Roma with 7-1?

[craiigman]

SK(D)

WB(S) - DC(D) - BPD(D) - FB(S)

DM(S) - VOL (S)

WP(S) ———————— W(A)

AF(A) - DF(S)

Standard / flexible

Play out of defence, pass into space, prevent short GK

how's that look on paper?

[Rashidi]

@craiigmanAsk the FB(S) to sit narrow so he supports volante more than trying to get forward. SK(D) is pointless perhaps consider SK on support, he can help recycle possession. I like the DF role he will ensure that he gets the players behind him into play, this is where the VOL role becomes important, he might need to be on Attack

 

[craiigman]

47 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

@craiigmanAsk the FB(S) to sit narrow so he supports volante more than trying to get forward. SK(D) is pointless perhaps consider SK on support, he can help recycle possession. I like the DF role he will ensure that he gets the players behind him into play, this is where the VOL role becomes important, he might need to be on Attack

 

Thanks mate, I’ll give both those suggestions a go. Inverted wing back when you have a DM doesn’t do that does it?

Edited August 14, 2018 by craiigman

[Luizinho]

Deos Stick to Positions only effect how many players ‘roam from position’? (ie. is it purely an attacking/with the ball shout)

[axelmuller]

If i use DMC man in 433 i have heard the defensive line drops. Is it true or not?

Lets assume im using standard mentality with a DMC man. Does my defensive line drop to the same level than in "Counter" mentality. And if i push higher up it is back to standard and "much higher defensive line" is same as Control?

[herne79]

12 minutes ago, axelmuller said:

If i use DMC man in 433 i have heard the defensive line drops. Is it true or not?

Lets assume im using standard mentality with a DMC man. Does my defensive line drop to the same level than in "Counter" mentality. And if i push higher up it is back to standard and "much higher defensive line" is same as Control?

True.  Using a DM will push your defenders a little deeper.  It won't be exactly the same as a different mentality but it'll be near enough you wouldn't notice the difference.

[Sam Smith2]

Hi ,

 

Quick question regarding scouting.

 

When I send my scout to scout players for 5 STAR Potential from South Europe (for example) does the 5 Star Potential rating mean....

They are rated 5 Star Potential in the country your scouting ?

or

They are rated 5 Star Potential compaired to the players in same positions in your own team ?

or

They are rated 5 Star Potential compaired to players who play in the same position in the League you are managing in ?

 

Thanks.

[Robson 07]

Q.  Why isn't the Defensive Forward role available with an attack duty?

[plcarlos]

@Sam Smith2

Tricky one this - Much can depend on the scouts ratings JAA\JPA etc, as I've had 5 star potential for similar players when compared to the likes of Ronaldo....

If you get 1/2, fair enough, if you start to get 20\30, you either have a mid level squad, or mid level scoout

Edited August 15, 2018 by plcarlos

[Cleon]

32 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

Q.  Why isn't the Defensive Forward role available with an attack duty?

Probably for the same reason there isn't a defensive option for a poacher, because it doesn't fit what the role is. 

Support Duty - With a support duty, the Defensive Forward will press the back line and put pressure on the central defenders.

Defensive Duty - With a defend duty, the Defensive Forward will stay a little deeper and put pressure on the defensive midfielders.

I don't see how it available on at attack duty would make sense or how it would work, because the role would be more attacking. Attacking roles on FM are extremes of the role and not all roles do have a very attacking or defensive versions of them. 

[Robson 07]

8 minutes ago, Cleon said:

I don't see how it available on at attack duty would make sense or how it would work

Thanks for the reply.  Personally I think it makes far more sense to have Attack Duty pressing the back line + goalkeeper and Support Duty pressing back line + DMs.   A defend duty forward makes no sense to me, it even suggests they make no forward runs. 

[Cleon]

1 hour ago, Robson 07 said:

Thanks for the reply.  Personally I think it makes far more sense to have Attack Duty pressing the back line + goalkeeper and Support Duty pressing back line + DMs.   A defend duty forward makes no sense to me, it even suggests they make no forward runs. 

How does it suggest it makes no forward runs?

Quote

Role Description - The Defensive Forward is becoming more and more important in the modern game. His main duty is to put pressure in the defensive line, chase down the man in possession and loose balls and generally stop the opposing defence having any time on the ball. In an attacking sense he keeps things simple as possible, preferring to bring others into the game rather than create his own chances.

In FM there is no such thing as no forward runs, ever player makes them. All the settings do is either suggest the player does them more or if you go to the other end of the scale, less. But it doesn't mean he can't/won't make them. 

Do you mean the bolded bit? Even that doesn't suggest he makes no forward runs. You can see exactly what he does though by looking at his settings. He holds up the ball and then joins in attacks once play as caught up with him.

I wrote this recently (it's part of a much larger project)

Defensive Forward

Role Description - The Defensive Forward is becoming more and more important in the modern game. His main duty is to put pressure in the defensive line, chase down the man in possession and loose balls and generally stop the opposing defence having any time on the ball. In an attacking sense he keeps things simple as possible, preferring to bring others into the game rather than create his own chances.

Support Duty - With a support duty, the Defensive Forward will press the back line and put pressure on the central defenders.

Defensive Duty - With a defend duty, the Defensive Forward will stay a little deeper and put pressure on the defensive midfielders.

Role Focus

The Defensive Forward is great for chasing everything down and putting pressure on the defenders or defensive midfielder depending on which duty you use. This can make those players rush their decisions and choose the wrong option or give the ball away cheaply. The Defensive Forward is a real bastard of a player and doesn’t let the opposition players rest, he’s a real pit bull type of player.

I think is probably one of the under used roles on the game but it’s one I have a lot of time for on Football Manager. It works best when you pair it with someone who is more static of more forward thinking. The Defensive Forward does and can score goals, don’t be put off by the description. He still gets into good areas, his defensive nature stems from when your side doesn’t have the ball mainly.

Good Pairing

• Advanced forward
• Poacher
• Complete Forward
• Deep-Lying Forward
• Trequartista

While a Trequartista will also drop deep, the pairing works well because it gives the impression of playing strikerless when out of possession. It’s probably one of the best combinations to use if you want two strikers who drop deep.

 

[Gegenklaus]

The TI dribble less. How does it affect say a player playing a role which has dribble more locked in? Does he ignore the TI shout or is toned down? Anyone knows?

[Sam Smith2]

2 hours ago, plcarlos said:

@Sam Smith2

Tricky one this - Much can depend on the scouts ratings JAA\JPA etc, as I've had 5 star potential for similar players when compared to the likes of Ronaldo....

If you get 1/2, fair enough, if you start to get 20\30, you either have a mid level squad, or mid level scoout

Thanks for the reply,but its not really answered my question.

 

If I was managing Real Madrid and had 1 of the best scouts in the game  (20 in Potential) and I sent him to scout the Scottish Leagues for a 5 Star Potential player,would he find anyone ?

 

If not,now is that because compaired to Real Madrid 5 Star players ,Scottish Leagues dont have any players that compare to the Madrid players or will he find a few 5 star players as they are the best in the Scotish Leagues ?

 

Hope that makes my question clearer.

[zlatanera]

32 minutes ago, Sam Smith2 said:

Thanks for the reply,but its not really answered my question.

 

If I was managing Real Madrid and had 1 of the best scouts in the game  (20 in Potential) and I sent him to scout the Scottish Leagues for a 5 Star Potential player,would he find anyone ?

 

If not,now is that because compaired to Real Madrid 5 Star players ,Scottish Leagues dont have any players that compare to the Madrid players or will he find a few 5 star players as they are the best in the Scotish Leagues ?

 

Hope that makes my question clearer.

Star ratings are always compared to your own players. It should show if you go into the actual scout report. So in your case, that 3 star Scottish youngster isn't actually sub-par, they're being compared to Cristiano Ronaldo.

[Sam Smith2]

35 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

Star ratings are always compared to your own players. It should show if you go into the actual scout report. So in your case, that 3 star Scottish youngster isn't actually sub-par, they're being compared to Cristiano Ronaldo.

Thanks very much Zlatanera,

 

Thats was how I thought it worked, and that is why in the Real Madrid/ Scottish example, if he is only looking for 5 Star Potential players ,he will not find any....which he hasn`t !

[Robson 07]

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

How does it suggest it makes no forward runs?

 

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

In FM there is no such thing as no forward runs, ever player makes them. All the settings do is either suggest the player does them more or if you go to the other end of the scale, less. But it doesn't mean he can't/won't make them. 

Hi.  Thanks again for the reply.  I beg your pardon inferring 'no' forward runs, perhaps better described as rarely.

My understanding might be outdated but in older versions I thought players had three 'forward runs' settings: rarely, mixed and often.  As they game evolved into roles and duties available to us today, I thought all defend duties had forward runs rarely; support duties mixed; attack duties often.  If that has changed I'll happily stand corrected.

To the point we're now have under the microscope, and following the above logic, a defensive forward with a defend duty will make forward runs rarely.   I find that a little odd.  To my original question I'm still not sure why the role doesn't have an attack duty.

[zlatanera]

Things have escalated with Nick Viergever to the point that I just promised to sell him before he leaves on a free. However, I have no outstanding promises to sell him. So is there any chance I can win him back by giving him the first team football he wanted? Or once that "Leaving on a free transfer" text appears is it beyond repair?

[Hovis Dexter]

@zlatanera I’m pretty sure that once he decided to leave on a free transfer there’s no way back. The words imply that he’s made an announcement to that effect. Having said that, players who announce that they are retiring can be persuaded to carry on playing so it may be worthwhile playing him to see if he does change his mind.

[Jonas1987]

Hi,

I have a question regarding regen dates. I have found several online for FM18 (can't recall where exactly) and they seem contradictive. Can someone link me to a correct link or regen dates for FM18 please?

Cheers

[zlatanera]

5 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

@zlatanera I’m pretty sure that once he decided to leave on a free transfer there’s no way back. The words imply that he’s made an announcement to that effect. Having said that, players who announce that they are retiring can be persuaded to carry on playing so it may be worthwhile playing him to see if he does change his mind.

Ah right, yeah that's what I thought. Its weird because in the conversation I had he said "I'm considering leaving on a free unless you sell me", so I said I'd sell him. No promise to sell him appeared in the "promises" section, and in my inbox it said he'd announced "he's considering leaving on a free transfer". Might just be another case of slightly misleading text in FM I guess. Shame, he's versatile, I would have rather lost Mitchell Dijks.

2 hours ago, Jonas1987 said:

Hi,

I have a question regarding regen dates. I have found several online for FM18 (can't recall where exactly) and they seem contradictive. Can someone link me to a correct link or regen dates for FM18 please?

Cheers

From FM15 onwards there's been a mixture of random and fixed dates. If you look at passion4fm's list and wait until the end of the month the intake is meant to be in before looking, 90% of the time you'll find them. If not, it either happened late in the month before, or will be early in the month after the date on the list in my experience.

[plcarlos]

I have a few questions on the 4231 i have at the moment.

Attacking phase is my issue at the moment, i notice a few things, So I'll clarify the Roles:

Both fullbacks are on Attack, CD's on defend, 1 is a BPD (Rugani). MC roles need to be refined, as i'm always guilty of role suitability - I think this is part of problem #2, but are DLP-D, AP-S. I've moved the AMC slot to a AMC-S, breaking away role my role Suitability, or i'd have Dele as a SS. W-S on the right, IF-A on the left (Rashford has been insane for me there), Kane as a CF-A.

Standard, Flexible. More instructions than I'd like. It's in my plan to reduce these 1 by 1, now the squad is much more improved.

#1 - Sometimes, we can have too many touches, instead of a shot, especially in the box. I do have work ball into box,, as i found that lead to better results.

#2 - My Full-backs pass the ball inside all the time, Is this linked to the Play-makers being ball Magnets?

#3 Wingers keep cutting in - They don't have this as a PI, although i understand Gelson Martin's Gets into box will play a part in this. Not concerned as much with Rashford, as i understand as a IF, he'll do this. His Goal return makes me forgive him...

We concede from corners\crosses too much, but Full-back roles, and Players are a big part of this - I have a low Jumping rating for the squad, so i'm not going to Dominate here.

[Bunkerossian]

Reasonable or Fairly Strong- what is stronger, when looking at a weaker foot attribute? The entire scale would be helpful to know, too.

[zlatanera]

1 hour ago, Bunkerossian said:

Reasonable or Fairly Strong- what is stronger, when looking at a weaker foot attribute? The entire scale would be helpful to know, too.

Reasonable < Fairly Strong < Strong < Very Strong.

Its on a 20-point scale, I believe someone told me Reasonable varies between 10 and 12 which is why whilst you can't train a weak foot beyond Reasonable, your coaches may still tell you to - the player might have 11/20 weak foot and they want you to spend 6 months going up to 12/20.

 

[pigfacemonkeyman]

First Team, Reserves, Youth - which players make up the club's "Squad Personality"?

Also does their personality contribute if they are away from the club on loan?

I've searched and found only guesses, but nothing official. Some solid info would be much appreciated.

[Lathund]

Perhaps not a stupid question, but didn't want to start a new thread.

I've got a player who I cannot understand why he cannot be tutored by another player. I've looked up the criteria for tutoring (In this case from here), but I've seen them elsewhere too and they seem to fulfill them. 

The intended tutor is Alberto Paloschi, and the tutee Christian Capone. Both are natural strikers, Paloschi is 28 and Capone 19 years old, Paloschi has a higher squad status (Rotation vs hot prospect) and a higher reputation, neither one is training a trait or are injured, Capone has played less than 75 senior matches and both have multiple years left on their contracts. Paloschi isn't tutoring anyone, and I can have him start tutoring other players (Both from his profile and the youngsters). 

When initiating from Capones profile, it says he can't be tutored by anyone; 8 potential tutors are too young, 8 play in the wrong positions and 2 have too low reputation. You can hover over the text and it shows you who those 18 players are. What's interesting is that Paloschi doesn't show up in this list, it's as if he's not being considered at all which is what I'm struggling to understand. 

Anyone know why tutoring isn't possible in this case? 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Lathund

[axelmuller]

How to use the analysis tool. Its so difficult i dont even know where to begin

[Snorks]

16 hours ago, axelmuller said:

How to use the analysis tool. Its so difficult i dont even know where to begin

Some good video tutorials out there on UToob - Look up Fox in the Box I think, did a good series on ProZone in FM

[herne79]

2 hours ago, Analog said:

Haven't played FM18 for very long, so can someone tell me if selecting "clear all" on scouting reports is the same thing as using "acknowledge" for all of them?

Please ask in the General Discussion forum as this thread is for Tactics and Training questions .