Classic wingers and crosses

[Bebetu]

Can classic wingers be effective in fm2012?I think ME doesnt allow this ,mostly because strikers come to late in area or because wingers aim always defenders or they are waiting to get tackled.

[Sussex Hammer]

I have massive issues with this. I bought Raheem Sterling and for 3 games he was brilliant and my strikers scored 4 headers in 3 games, now he just keeps doing what others do and runs down the line before waiting to play a safe pass (if I am lucky) to the full back.

[Cleon]

I have massive issues with this. I bought Raheem Sterling and for 3 games he was brilliant and my strikers scored 4 headers in 3 games, now he just keeps doing what others do and runs down the line before waiting to play a safe pass (if I am lucky) to the full back.

In what season? Because he has quite bad attributes on my games for crossing, anticipation, teamwork, technique and decisions. All of which is needed to be accurate at crossing.

To score from crosses you also need to make sure you have someone in the box who is unmarked or who is capable of getting on the end of a cross to begin with.

[Bebetu]

The problem is that in some matches i have crosses completed under 5 % with very good wingers and a good target man.Even a winger with crossing 1 should have better percentage because of randomness(like throwing a coin to see if is tail or head for example).The biggest problem from what i see is that when a winger is making a fast run/dribble central striker just doesnt keep the same run as winger or he is to lazy to run to receive the cross and he arrives too late in area.

[ham_aka_stam]

Make sure your striker is a) playing with a high mentality, b) has mixed or often RFD and c) (most importantly) isn't set to roam. Setting a ST to roam causes him to drop back behind the ball too much.

You need the TM pushing the line.

[PeeKay]

In real life, I don't think the Cross Completion percentage is as high as most people think. Just thinking about what make a Complete Cross and you wonder why so many pundits rave about "putting crosses into the box".

1) The winger makes a cross - need to be a good cross it needs to be into the danger area but most are long, short or wide

2) It needs get past the full back - crosses deflect off the full back a lot

3) It needs to get past the waiting defender - Central defenders job is to head away crosses and corners

4) Past the keeper - depending on the cross the keeper can collect

5) Strikers needs to be in the right place - anticipation of where the ball it going to be and then connect with the ball

Thats just a Cross Completion and then getting the ball into the net is another matter.

At a guess, the average Cross Completion IRL is probably about 15% - 25% (some real stats would be good). The 5% you are getting is poor but is that just one match or a group of matches?

[Bebetu]

The only thing that bothers me is that strikers have a late reaction in making his run or they stop on the way and they are not connected well with the wingers,u clearly can see this by watching full match and observing atacking movement(doesnt matter tactic or sliders).Beside this i think u are right Peekay many factors are involved when it comes about cross completion percentage and a realistic and average percentage should be ~ 20-25 %,and i never reach such percentage the higher i get is ~ 10-15%.

[Cleon]

The only thing that bothers me is that strikers have a late reaction in making his run or they stop on the way and they are not connected well with the wingers,u clearly can see this by watching full match and observing atacking movement(doesnt matter tactic or sliders).Beside this i think u are right Peekay many factors are involved when it comes about cross completion percentage and a realistic and average percentage should be ~ 20-25 %,and i never reach such percentage the higher i get is ~ 10-15%.

Whats ur strikers anticipation, teamwork, workrate and off the ball like?

[PeeKay]

One thing that has just occurred to me that the percentage can fall if you are taking a lot of crosses.

Also, what formation and strategy are you using? I find that 2 striker formation have a better chance of completing a cross. That also leads to just getting more bodies in the box gives you more chance to complete the cross. Also, a more patient strategy could result in less crosses (but I don't think thats a problem you are having).

I'm not going to look at player atrributes as there are better people on this forum that can comment on that. However, the better atrributes in key areas will give you a better completion percentage.

[Marsupian]

I think it's sadly a problem with the match engine. When a winger is making a run out wide the striker just doesn't attack the defensive line no matter what you try. He will almost always be a little deeper and the winger will almost always cross the ball on top of the defensive line after which the striker is in no position to even contest the cross. The striker off the ball movement in the final third in general is just not good at all. Forward players tend to clump up together instead of making runs towards the short post or far post or staying central. For instance when playing a poacher up top he generally moves to the far post when a cross is coming in. This makes no sense at all as there is another winger coming in who will naturally also go to the far post while there is nobody at the short post as the other winger is out wide trying to get a cross in. This also puts the two most attacking players behind two central defenders which makes even less sense.

Now having better players will help a bit and you can adapt your strategy a bit to make them more effective (especially playing on the counter or playing high tempo attacking football) but still crossing and the movement of forward players when a cross is on just never feels right.

I have played with wingers for a while now and the only goals scored from crosses are:

1. Winger to winger who is unmarked at the far post.

2. On the break when the defense is outnumbered and there is a free man in the box (usually played into the free mans feet instead of to the head)

3. Cross put in low behind the defensive line or on top of it and the striker doing the typical sliding goal

Never have I seen a cross put on top of the D-line and a striker contesting it in the air or getting free with good movement to give him a free header. It might have happened once or twice tho, probably from a cross by a fullback if it did.

[Sussex Hammer]

In what season? Because he has quite bad attributes on my games for crossing, anticipation, teamwork, technique and decisions. All of which is needed to be accurate at crossing.

To score from crosses you also need to make sure you have someone in the box who is unmarked or who is capable of getting on the end of a cross to begin with.

Not just Sterling Cleon. Had Di Maria, Samir Nasri and Adam Johnson and most of the time they just stop and pass the ball back.. I have Steven Fletcher up top and I think he has only scored about one header. Johnson did it for about 3 games and was top notch. Then he picked up an ankle injury and was pretty much finished at 27.

[Bebetu]

I was trying to build a tactic based on wingers but every time i fail and irony is that crossing are working better when u dont push the plays on wings and u dont want to base your game on them.I also see that crosses have a chance to reach their targets after a throw in,but mostly i see this at AI because my striker is pulled to give short option wich i cant prevent this in some tactic modules.

[TeeWee]

I've had very similar issues with wingers playing a 3-man attack (4-3-3 family or 4-2-3-1). But in my experience, it's a lot better once you go with a 2-man attack.

At a guess, it means the winger "sees" more potential targets (the two strikers plus the opposite winger and maybe even a CM storming in) so the risk/reward ratio is better.

With a 3-man attack, you get fewer potential targets, or equal at best (the lone forward, the opposite winger, maybe the AMC player, and sometimes a CM storming in). If the lone forward is more the fast, nimble type instead of the strong tall dude, the risk / reward ratio will drop even further.

That said, the alternate decision where the winger just keeps on running or passes the ball back even after he's dribbled past the defender is a bit silly. It happens IRL, but a bit too often in FM for my tastes. Maybe there should be more Hail-Mary type crosses that at least have a chance of connecting just because the cross was fired off?

[Fabian Jonsson]

I haven't had much success with late crosses into the box, but early crosses to players running towards the posts are very effective in FM12. I score frequently on those, not to mention that a big chunk of the goals I concede are from counters where a winger hits an early cross to onstorming centre forwards...

EDIT: Try a really quick, technical winger set to winger/attack, a pacey striker with a high mentality (advanced forward, poacher, etc), set crossing to "drill crosses" and you should see a few decent crosses.

EDIT 2: An inside forward on the opposite flank is a big plus. He will often arrive just in time at the far post.

[Karnage94]

I don't have too many problems. I'm playing as Tenerife and Kiko Raton is my TM. Good in the air but slow. I play with one winger and one AP on the flanks, both on attack. Odd thing is that my winger has scored 4 times more goals than my main AP (20-5) through crosses and through balls across the defence. However Raton has scored a wide variety of goals in a TM-Attack role. About 8-10 goals from his head I'll guess. You just need to right combination of players for it to work, players who are of the crossing mould and a big fella to get on the end of it

[LlamaZA]

Just read this and thought of this post.

Haven't got round to translating into FM terms, but this could have some impact on how to combine your wingers and forwards with the correct settings:

How does this affect tactics? Different strikers who are ‘good in the air’ require different crosses. The type of cross can be broken down into three specific areas – where it is crossed from, where it is crossed to, and whether the cross is driven or lobbed into the box.

...

Therefore, it’s possible to replace one striker that is ‘good in the air’ with another who also fits that description, and for them to be completely different players requiring different deliveries and forcing a side to play in a different way. “Good in the air” is a decent starting point, but often doesn’t tell the whole story.

[brussels]

I have played with wingers for a while now and the only goals scored from crosses are:

1. Winger to winger who is unmarked at the far post.

I have had a lot of success floating crosses, and I was playing with average wingers. 10-15 league goals for each winger, finished mid-table after promotion.

Tactic was 4231 deep, wide players were wingers/support or attack and striker was poacher.

just my 2 cents

[Karnage94]

Just read this and thought of this post.

Haven't got round to translating into FM terms, but this could have some impact on how to combine your wingers and forwards with the correct settings:

I read this about an hour ago and the conclusion that I got to it was that the lower of the jumping of your striker, the more bias towards the near post you would go (and vice versa).So on that basis I should be floating my crosses with my 6ft 2, 14 Jumping striker in the Segunda B division in Spain.

[Bebetu]

I've tried some tactics and i can tell that crossing is working better on tactic that aplies on counter strategy in wich defense is pulled or badly positioning.My conclusion is that big target man doesnt work well and wingers cross more offen to each other rather than crossing to a 1.90+ cm tall guy.Other than that crossing coming from a positional play,or those in wich wingers is speeding with a dribble at byline and in attempt to cross to strikers is extremely poor,because most of the time lazy striker come to late in area and either cross doesnt reach him or the winger is tackled/blocked because forced to wait the striker.

[Seule]

Have to agree with this, I play two main tactics, one as attacking and one as counter. In the counter tactic, my wingers play as pure wingers, they fly down the outside and cross back for the striker/mid arriving in the box, but those are all quick players, no lumbering lunks there. In my attacking tactic the wingers play as inside forwards and don't cross much, they make more lateral runs and lay off through balls, or get right to the byline in the penalty area before cutting it back.

But in a traditional sense, the crossing is far more effective when there is space in the middle and this usually only happens when you can catch your opponent out of position, ie on the break.

[GIMN]

I feel that my wingers crossing is effective enough. Using Team Report -> Goal Analysis -> Goal Assists I can see that 18% of my goals come from crosses (if you include corners and free kicks, then 38% of my goals come from crosses).

I don't know how that compares to real life stats nor how many of those were from my wingers.

[Bebetu]

Other thing that is annoying me is how central defenders from team with much better reputation wich are covering their bombarding fullbacks(Mertesacker for example pace 13 acc 7) they manage to block my much faster winger near byline(Kusnir Pace Acc and agility above 18) and this is because they need to bloock my wingers from Norwich otherwise they would not be world class right? ,this is very unrealistic really.From what i see just better reputation have bigger impact higher than attributes of players and SI must fix this to be realistic,attributes should be the one who matters 99 % and not other factors.

Same is at corners,free throws and free kicks,teams with better reputation become beastly(if compared with the lesser reputation team),doesnt matter if they are midgets the ball will land too offen on their heads just because of the unrealistic impact of ME that is helping teams with much better reputation.

[Bebetu]

Cannot believe SI did nothing with wingers and goals coming from headers with this latest patch.I tell myself that maybe its my tactic but really i tried everything and every option available in tactics sliders that could influence crosses.Im about to give up because its no point.If u dont have a Gotze,Di Maria or someone with pace 18+ and cross/flair >16 its better to forget about crosses.Also if u want a normal tactic that doesnt exploit counterattacks its better to forget also about wingers.

I really dont get it,wingers should be used also to open and crack defenses even in positional plays not just on counters.If my striker would have at least 5 % chance for a header or a chalange at head at every cross i would not moaning about it.Really im so bored about wingers and this silly crappy counter goals that wingers cross to each other or into space where pacey strikers are diving with feet in front like some maniacs .

[sirfletch2006]

I don't think you can set up a team just to score from crosses, you need threats from other areas or you will be too one-dimensional.

I play a 4-2-3-1 as Arsenal with Chamberlain and Bale as wingers, but I also have RVP playing just behind the striker playing through balls and taking long shots.

My advanced forward scores plenty of headers from crosses.