England vs Italy - Sunday 19:45

[Grand]

It was an interesting match, but the Italians were just way better for most of the match.

Italy had 64% ball possession and 20 attempts on target compared to England's 4. (According to UEFA's site)

Although I was hoping we'd see a more even match, I think England did alright, but I can't help wondering if it'll change anything in regards to FM statistics. I guess not, since England is probably the biggest market for the game.

Pirlo completely dominated the midfield and the only place England seemed best was in the air.. Especially when passing towards Andy Carroll. Judging by the IRL matches, England just isn't a world class team.. And the game certainly disagrees with that. It seems like the Italian and English 'scouts' judge players using completely different standards.

Now, I'm not saying England is a bad team or anything.. Not even close. But having a player like Gerrard (Who I actually like.) on the same level as Xavi is just silly. "Even" Pirlo is playing way better than Gerrard IRL and Pirlo's been in decline in the game for a while already. Even some of the Italian subs were consistently beating the English players, and while teams like Napoli aren't bad teams, they're certainly nowhere near the standard of the English teams in FM.

I have no experience judging players' abilities on a scale to 20, but something just seems way off.. Or maybe the consistency stat just needs to be lowered by 10 across the team.. They're just not playing on the same level as a team like Italy today, and Italy aren't even one of the favorites this year for most people. If they were, the match tonight wouldn't have been thought of as being relatively equal.

[georginho_juventusygr]

What a game. What an evening. What ... . Well, no words.

Roy Hodgson's football for England is good. England were solid, especially the defending. Terry and Lescott are a world-class pair. Gerrard and Parker are magnificent. What the team needs is two wingers to replace disappointing Milner and ineffective Young. I think the fitness is the issue of the whole team today. Rooney and Welbeck closed Pirlo down in the first 20 minutes, and they couldn't do it anymore. The whole team also stayed deep and couldn't help the attack. Luckily, luck was with them.

Italy were also solid today. Buffon made several good passes. The defenders did their job well, and Marchisio, De Rossi, and Montolivo helped Pirlo. The only thing missing is the sharpness in front of the goal. Diamanti played well today.

Perhaps some words for the shootouts. Had Italy not won today, I would have dumped Montolivo into the list of officially rubbish players, but he impressed me today with the best game in his career in front of my eyes. Pirlo is legendary and confirmed his status today. Nobody else will have that nerve to do what Antonín Panenka did legendarily. Young was unlucky when the ball hit the bar. Cole should have done better, though. It wasn't even a penalty, and we saw a rare occasion from Buffon that he saved in shootouts. Well done to Diamanti, a hero of one night.

Thumbs up for England. They can go home with their heads held high. Hodgson should be kept, and a house should be build on this strong foundation. I'm looking forward into Italy's match with Germany. I want to say that if Italy go home after the semifinal, I'll not be upset or disappointed. It's now far enough, and with two days fewer to rest, Italy need more than just work to go further.

[football_master_94]

Says nothing about the quality of English players, does it? England basically have no 'world class' players, maybe exactly because the best league in the world is the biggest mercenary gathering world-wide.

Tbf, England have - arguably - 3 world class players in Hart, Cole and Rooney but yeah, not amongst the elite international sides

[DJ]

Maybe yes, maybe not...

You are OFF!!!!

Poor England, so arrogant...

But do no worry, you have several more years to learn

UP ITALY!!!

Pffff, you're a very poor troll. Big mouth, waaaay after the match. Big hero

Go on big man, come trolling like that in the Germany-Italy thread. Before it starts.

[Nottingham Forest]

Carroll is just awful technically. He'll always be dangerous because of his physique, obviously.

England don't have the players to be technical so we're sorted.

[RBKalle]

Hahaha, RBKalle

Come on...

I gave credit to the team, although most of it must be shared with the worst English side I've even watched.

Seriously, Italy scored twice from corners, once from free kick and only once in open play... And that goal was DIRECT football, what Italy should have done all along... Balotelli may be a moron, but he's a beast... he can run and he can protect the ball. Play him through and he'll score.

Instead Prandelli is fixated with that useless possession-oriented style, despite missing a couple of key players for playing that way.

I maintain Italy didn't impress me one bit, despite reaching the semis. With a different style of play they'd be so much better, but until then, they're still a rather average team, smaller than the sum of its parts.

That being said, England sucked big time, so a laborious win against them, after a criminally wasteful game, is the exact opposite of what used to be Italy's strong suit.

Winning with the minimal effort.

[Juve4EVA]

Did Rooney have injury problems before the tournament? Or was he just not match fit? I was expecting to see him around Pirlo a lot more often.

Hahaha, RBKalle

So stubborn

Although I have to agree with him about Montolivo, doesn't have the balls for penalty shootouts.

[Marc Albrighton]

Lets not make excuses for rooney please, hes generally rubbish for england for a reason yet he always gets the match fitness/injury excuse.

[Philip Rolfe]

Only way forward for England is root and branch reform of penalty taking. Smaller sided shootouts at junior level, all that stuff.

[Gambino316]

Pirlo's the best passer in world football, and has been for a decade. Yet we game him 5 seconds on the ball every time he touched it? Completely ridiculous.

Literally doesn't make any sense. Surely we should have started with 3 in midfield, and put a man on Pirlo to shadow him all game?

[DMaster2]

How can you honestly define Italy a Top Side?

England's awfulness made Italy look like a million bucks tonight despite playing their "poor man's Spain" football while having no end product whatsoever against bland opposition.

Exactly like they did against Croatia til they ran out of fuel and against Ireland, where they scored two rather casual goals (from set pieces).

Italy are CLEARLY the weakest semifinalist and are there mostly thanks to their opponents being even weaker.

That being said, England might have been unlucky with injuries, but you'd think a bit of an injury crisis shouldn't turn the nation with the best league in the world into a pathetic rehash of Ireland circa WC 1990.

Again, negative tactic, anti-football and all you want, but I just knew it was over once Gerrard and Rooney had taken their penalties because there was no other player able to comfortably score from the spot.

Italy could have probably sent 8 players with enough skills and mental strength to score. [obviosuly the wussy Montolivo was the one who fluffed it]

LOL

We played with Spain and we deserve the draw, and we're talking about the best team in the world. We have some issues on attack with Balotelli and Cassano which is not very fit, but we play a solid football and we deserve to be a semifinalist. We'll see against Germany, i believe it will be a balanced match.

[deerokus]

Pirlo was a joy to watch tonight, time slows down when he has the ball. He's got time to kill the ball, slow down the game, get out his pipe and slippers, stroke his chin, decide what Italy's next attack will be, and pick an inch perfect pass. Football porn.

England gave him an ocean of space mind you!

[davidel]

Not just us jocks that are saying this is a poor England team, plenty of you are stating the same thing.

With the facilities and coaching available to the players in the premier league and with the abundance of exceptional foreigners that the players play with week in week out, you'd think that the english players would at least pick up some basic techniques. This appears to be beyond them.

Only 3 players can take any real credit from this tournament, Gerrard (just overrun tonight), Ashley Cole (bar the penalty obviously) and whether you like him or not John Terry, the rest have been meh.

[Marc Albrighton]

Pirlo's the best passer in world football, and has been for a decade. Yet we game him 5 seconds on the ball every time he touched it? Completely ridiculous.

Literally doesn't make any sense. Surely we should have started with 3 in midfield, and put a man on Pirlo to shadow him all game?

Realistically we didnt have 3 starting midfielders, the centre mid was picked by default with parker/gerrard unless anyone counts henderson as a realistic option? You could argue milner but he clearly had a job on the wing.

[Lermon]

well penalties- reason England fail at them is because it's become a deep rooted belief that we're crap at them. So England go up to take penalties, and you can see the sheer nerves of the players. I mean Rooney can take penalties but he was reduced to not looking at all at the goalkeeper. Simply because England have this reputation of being bad at penalties, the players feel twice as much pressure on them. If that didn't exist at all, England players would be more freer in taking the penalties.

-just disagreeing extensive training is needed for English players for penalties.

[Big Geordie]

Tbf, England have - arguably - 3 world class players in Hart, Cole and Rooney but yeah, not amongst the elite international sides

Rooney world class? He's never turned up for his country in a major tournament since 2004. Lives off his reputation at Man United where he is surrounded by good players (mostly foreign)

[football_master_94]

Rooney world class? He's never turned up for his country in a major tournament since 2004. Lives off his reputation at Man United where he is surrounded by good players (mostly foreign)

Don't particularly like him, but yes, on the basis of the last two seasons you have to say that he's world class.

[tony_cfc]

Weird how average Rooney looks for England considering how frightening he was 8 years ago.

[deerokus]

Not just us jocks that are saying this is a poor England team, plenty of you are stating the same thing.

With the facilities and coaching available to the players in the premier league and with the abundance of exceptional foreigners that the players play with week in week out, you'd think that the english players would at least pick up some basic techniques. This appears to be beyond them.

Only 3 players can take any real credit from this tournament, Gerrard (just overrun tonight), Ashley Cole (bar the penalty obviously) and whether you like him or not John Terry, the rest have been meh.

England have always had and still have exactly the same problem Scotland have, (and Ireland, and Wales, and Norn Iron, but those teams rely more on players coming through the English system than we do). Miles behind most countries technically. I get the impression that youth coaching is slowly changing, but it'll take a while to bear fruit obviously.

It actually stands out more for England because they have players who are good enough physically and athletically to get them to this stage, which we just about have if everyone is fit, but don't have in depth. I was a bit surprised the English media lauded that rather fortunate draw against France though. Even Scotland have beaten France in the last 5 years!

Terry has been excellent for them, I'd say Lescott pretty good too. For the ultra-cautious system they were using to work they needed good, quick counter attacking play, which was lacking in every game.

[Chicha_14]

Fully deserved for the Italians, England seriously need to start producing more players like Wilshere (missed massively at the Euros) if we are to get anywhere near winning an international tournament. We was never going to get past top sides the way we play, if we had somehow got past Italy we would of been destroyed again by Germany.

[Juve4EVA]

Lets not make excuses for rooney please, hes generally rubbish for england for a reason yet he always gets the match fitness/injury excuse.

I've not seen England outside an international tournament in a while so I don't know if he generally is crap. Was brushed aside quite easily a few times which isn't something I'd expect though.

[Vynal Seven]

Maybe yes, maybe not...

You are OFF!!!!

Poor England, so arrogant...

But do no worry, you have several more years to learn

UP ITALY!!!

Has nobody told you youre also a pretty poor team, your best player is the wrong side on 30. We made you look much better than you are tonight, fact.

The only difference is we know were ****. As for arrogance well coming from an italian i did crack a bit of a smile there. i must admit.

Someone get the man a pint of bitter.

Think you better join him.

[Lovejoy!]

oh well. unlucky england.

italy to get destroyed by the krauts, portugal to sneak it against spain and then ronaldo to get his trophy :*) :*) :*)

and i still don't understand english football fans celebrating us getting knocked out. bizzare.

[RBKalle]

We played with Spain

Agreed.

and we deserve the draw

Debatable. Torres wasted two ginormous chances... a 2-1 loss wouldn't have been a scandal.

We have some issues on attack with Balotelli and Cassano which is not very fit, but we play a solid football and we deserve to be a semifinalist. We'll see against Germany, i believe it will be a balanced match.

Cassano should have been dropped from the Starting XI already... Solid but unbelievably sterile football. There's a clash of styles between the midfield and the strikers. Also, lack of stamina and pace could be a real issue that hasn't been exploited much so far.

We'll see... I wouldn't be so optimistic because Germany are IMO more dangerous than Spain

[HOORAY HENRIK]

you do feel sorry for them dont you? England hating is the only sport they have a chance of winning though bless 'em

I don't think anyone in Scotland bothers to hate the England football team anymore. It's more pity now.

[SGartz]

Rooney looks like he needs to lose 2 stone imo

[Andrew_]

I was wondering who the hell that was aswell?

[Hom3r]

All those foreign players surrounding Rooney such as Welbeck, Young and Carrick.

[av3ry]

Ah well, unlucky England. We done well to get to penalties mind, our defence tonight was fantastic. Pirlo's a magiacian. Goodluck against Germany Italy.

[Marc Albrighton]

As if a scottish person could ever "pity" us, laughable

[Leppard]

To be fair if we'd had Valencia instead of Milner we'd have won that...

I remember Rooney playing the ball for Milner to run onto and Milner easily got beaten to it. Wondered if Rooney thought he was playing with Valencia for a moment.

[tony_cfc]

Like the man in the Skoda feeling pity for the man in the BMW getting over taken by the Lamborghini

More about the fact that Scotland can accept their position in world football and dont get their hopes up but England always fall into the trap of thing they are getting somewhere.

England clearly aren't BMW standard anyway

[Marc Albrighton]

More about the fact that Scotland can accept their position in world football and dont get their hopes up but England always fall into the trap of thing they are getting somewhere.

England clearly aren't BMW standard anyway

OR we just support our nation in every tournament like every other country in the world, why bother going to a tournament if you dont want to win it? English football fans who dont support their country are a million times worse than an english fan who expects to actually win a tournament.

[skybluedave]

You'll be hard pressed to find an England fan who thinks they will win something. Hope, maybe.

[DMaster2]

Agreed.

Debatable. Torres wasted two ginormous chances... a 2-1 loss wouldn't have been a scandal.

Cassano should have been dropped from the Starting XI already... Solid but unbelievably sterile football. There's a clash of styles between the midfield and the strikers. Also, lack of stamina and pace could be a real issue that hasn't been exploited much so far.

We'll see... I wouldn't be so optimistic because Germany are IMO more dangerous than Spain

We wasted a couple of chances against Spain too, one against their keeper btw. The draw was the most fair result imho.

[Boltman]

As if a scottish person could ever "pity" us, laughable

OR we just support our nation in every tournament like every other country in the world, why bother going to a tournament if you dont want to win it? English football fans who dont support their country are a million times worse than an english fan who expects to actually win a tournament.

Well the continual self-delusion has eventually lost it's comedic edge. There's a significant proportion of the England fanbase who remind me of those special needs kids who have to wear rubber helmets because they're a danger to themselves. You can't help but feel a certain compassion, pity if you like, after seeing it so often down the years.

[PaulHartman71]

a lot of people I watched the game with were slating Rooney, tbf he obviously wasn't fit, his legs had gone after an hour let alone by the end of the 120 minutes. Fair play to him for scoring the penalty though, was convinced he'd sky it.

[Marc Albrighton]

Well the continual self-delusion has eventually lost it's comedic edge. There's a significant proportion of the England fanbase who remind me of those special needs kids who have to wear rubber helmets because they're a danger to themselves. You can't help but feel a certain compassion, pity if you like, after seeing it so often down the years.

So intelligent, fantastic post. No wait it was exactly the opposite.

[HOORAY HENRIK]

As if a scottish person could ever "pity" us, laughable

I know, it really is a bit embarrassing for you.

[Boltman]

So intelligent, fantastic post. No wait it was exactly the opposite.

^

Verge of tears

Scotland are completely crap, have been for years, which means that Scots are quite comfortable with accepting that fact. England's habit of continually just being crap enough to ultimately disappoint is a torture far beyond anything ever suffered by any Scotland fan. It's practically impossible not to feel a certain sympathy.

[Leppard]

This Marc Albrighton dude needs to go to bed.

[Marc Albrighton]

^

Verge of tears

Scotland are completely crap, have been for years, which means that Scots are quite comfortable with accepting that fact. England's habit of continually just being crap enough to ultimately disappoint is a torture far beyond anything ever suffered by any Scotland fan. It's practically impossible not to feel a certain sympathy.

So you'd rather not compete in a tournament purely because you expect averageness? Not really the point in supporting your team/nation is it?

[foolsgold]

He speaks the truth ^

[Marc Albrighton]

This Marc Albrighton dude needs to go to bed.

Probably shouldnt be on a forum if you dislike someone having an opinion, dont see anything that outrageous in what im saying tbh.

[deerokus]

So you'd rather not compete in a tournament purely because you expect averageness? Not really the point in supporting your team/nation is it?

That's not what he's saying.

We have no expectations because in international football terms we're basically a large city that has sometimes had some very good players. Even when Scottish football was great, the Scotland team's achievements were limited. We always expect to lose, so it doesn't really hurt so much when we do. Doesn't mean we don't want to do well.

England are in a rather pitiable situation where there's the lurking shadow of '66 and all that that seems to convince the media (and many fans) that the England team is capable of something it's not, even when you know they're not up to much. It's a weight of expectation that is incredibly hard to fulfil. It would take a miracle for England to do that ever again, not quite on the scale of Denmark or Greece winning the Euro, but not a bawhair off it. It is quite painful to see normally level-headed England fans get caught up in.*

*My club have the exact same problem btw, any Celtic fan knows it is completely irrational, but in his heart still believes we'll win the European Cup again one day

[Leppard]

Probably shouldnt be on a forum if you dislike someone having an opinion, dont see anything that outrageous in what im saying tbh.

No, you're embarrassing yourself with all that bitterness.

[Marc Albrighton]

No, you're embarrassing yourself with all that bitterness.

The bitterness is not coming from me mate, move along.

[benjaminpeter]

I think what England football fans have is called ambition and optimism, and I would gladly keep those attributes rather than the bitter schaudenfreude of our jealous neighbours. Some of it is blind, and if I didn't know better I would think the idiots (not on here) who said we'd 'do Italy 3-0' actually had a detrimental effect on the result this evening, but I wouldn't change it for the world, let alone Scotland.

[cms186]

I think what England football fans have is called ambition and optimism, and I would gladly keep those attributes rather than the bitter schaudenfreude of our jealous neighbours. Some of it is blind, and if I didn't know better I would think the idiots (not on here) who said we'd 'do Italy 3-0' actually had a detrimental effect on the result this evening, but I wouldn't change it for the world, let alone Scotland.

if there was a "Retweet" button for these forums, i would use it for this post

[Marc Albrighton]

That's not what he's saying.

We have no expectations because in international football terms we're basically a large city that has sometimes had some very good players. Even when Scottish football was great, the Scotland team's achievements were limited. We always expect to lose, so it doesn't really hurt so much when we do. Doesn't mean we don't want to do well.

England are in a rather pitiable situation where there's the lurking shadow of '66 and all that that seems to convince the media (and many fans) that the England team is capable of something it's not, even when you know they're not up to much. It's a weight of expectation that is incredibly hard to fulfil. It would take a miracle for England to do that ever again, not quite on the scale of Denmark or Greece winning the Euro, but not a bawhair off it. It is quite painful to see normally level-headed England fans get caught up in.*

*My club have the exact same problem btw, any Celtic fan knows it is completely irrational, but in his heart still believes we'll win the European Cup again one day

Mircale maybe, dont think it will stop people hoping/expecting. If you dont have the hope/expectation of winning a match whats the point in competing? Anyway its hard not to get caught up really for me anyway, think a lot of people me included act very different immediately after a tournament exit but again i dont see a lot wrong in what im saying basically. Certainly dont think we need to be pitied by other nations.