The Great English Switcheroo Experiment

[Shakes]

I think its more the point that players like rooney will want to play in the premier league, and Europe, or even go abroad, but no one has.

And the game has a reputation system in place to make that happen. If Man U had actually slid down to tier 6 through 5 relegations, their reputation would have tanked along the way and Rooney and co would have bolted. The game isn't designed to cope with someone just putting Man U in tier 6.

Not saying the game models this perfectly, but it models it a lot better when you play the game the way it's designed to work rather than with a rather artificial experiment. Not knocking you, the experiment is interesting, but really shouldn't be taken as anything more than good fun.

[SuperDan!]

And the game has a reputation system in place to make that happen. If Man U had actually slid down to tier 6 through 5 relegations, their reputation would have tanked along the way and Rooney and co would have bolted. The game isn't designed to cope with someone just putting Man U in tier 6.

Not saying the game models this perfectly, but it models it a lot better when you play the game the way it's designed to work rather than with a rather artificial experiment. Not knocking you, the experiment is interesting, but really shouldn't be taken as anything more than good fun.

That is a valid point. I just thought that after a few seasons out of the premiership they would want to bolt, and some have. I'm only doing this as a bit of fun anyway, but I think its interesting to see how the game copes with it and I wanted to see how the game copes when put in different situations. Kinda got the idea off the Rangers scenario anyway, because I'm sure the lack of revenue will affect them, and in this experiment it has too with QPR, Wigan etc.. The fact that it is so unrealistic makes it quite a bit unpredictable.

[SuperDan!]

UPDATE 2015/2016

This would be the season where I think we will now start to see the formation of the new Premier League in terms of consistency. If I guess correctly, I would say that it will consist of the big Premiership teams, with some League One and League Two teams making up mid table, and the non league teams who were successful initially and bought well making up the rest, (ie Maidenhead, Dorchester, Sutton Utd, maybe Solihull).

The Premier League had a surprising outcome, you would expect Sheffield Utd or Portsmouth to just walk the league. However, this years Premier League was won by... Macclesfield. Their signings seem to be making a difference, and high attendance figures, such as 11000 on average mean that they won the league this year. The most interesting factor was the position of Sheffield Utd and Gillingham. Solihull Moors dropped to a new low; they havent spent enough to merit a decent enough finish in the Premier League, and with better teams approaching the league, they will have to improve if they want to stay in this league. Tonbridge sold all their best players and as a result got relegated.

The Premiership transfers were the most interesting part of this season. Including:

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD] From [/TD]

[TD] To [/TD]

[TD] Cost [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Pajtim Kasami[/TD]

[TD]Fulham[/TD]

[TD]Portsmouth[/TD]

[TD]£16.25m[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]James Tomkins[/TD]

[TD]West Ham[/TD]

[TD]Macclesfield[/TD]

[TD]£13.5m[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Jay Rodriguez[/TD]

[TD]Burnley[/TD]

[TD]Southend[/TD]

[TD]£7.5m[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Jonjo Shelvery[/TD]

[TD]Liverpool[/TD]

[TD]Portsmouth[/TD]

[TD]£1.2m[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Jose Baxter[/TD]

[TD]Free[/TD]

[TD]Wrexham[/TD]

[TD]Free[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Danny Drinkwater[/TD]

[TD]Wrexham[/TD]

[TD]Man Utd[/TD]

[TD]Free[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Wayne Routledge[/TD]

[TD]Free[/TD]

[TD]Sutton Utd[/TD]

[TD]Free[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

The fact that Man Utd are buying from Wrexham is very interesting, the gradual shift of teams is starting to take place.

And onto the Championship. Man Utd and Liverpool raced to the top early on in the season and didnt look like losing out on the opportunity to return to the top flight. Now starts the real interest for this game, the formation of the Premier League will properly start to take place. Something to note is Salisbury, who have now consistently finished in the top half of the Championship for a few seasons.

League One saw Arsenal and Man City dominate to gain promotion to the Championship, so expect them in the Premiership the season after next. The former Conference teams are starting to adapt to life in the League now, mid table positions are now consistent for many teams. Note Brackley, who finished bottom of the league, were in the Premiership at the start.

League Two saw surprise Champions in Swansea, overcoming Chelsea in 2nd place. This league is starting to form up of Conference rejects, and will probably stay this way for the next few years, considering the poor flow coming from the Blue Square Premier and the poor quality coming from the league above. I always feel sympathetic for the relegated teams, they will now continue to suffer in the high quality of the lower leagues.

[SuperDan!]

UPDATE 2015-2016 CONTINUED

The Blue Square Premier is now becoming more unpredicatable. There is a good mix of teams, and the teams who tend to dominate in the top flight are now leaving the league. Spurs are the last team I would consider that causes intent to finish in the top 5 of the Premier league to get promoted, and that they have this year. It will now be a dogfight between the lower Premier League teams and Championship teams for the two promotion spots. The relegation spots are pretty much reserved for the League rejects, Boston United and Gloucester biting the dust.

The Blue Square North is similar to the Blue Square Premier, without the diverse cross section. It is now consisting of lower Premier teams and Championship teams waiting for promotion, and teams who havent made it in the league. Shrewsbury were the surprise team to get relegated here, Guiseley, just and only just surviving. Blackburn and Derby enjoyed a promotion to a league which will slowly become harder to get out of. Sunderland, Villa and Everton are now still stuck in this league and Wigan are just in mid table oblivion.

The Blue Square South saw Southampton and Millwall go up. Carshalton, who have now become a team I am hoping progress better in the league, have improved over others. QPR and Brentford financially struggle, but end up in mid table. But with big players starting to leave them, they may struggle even more if their reputation dwindles.

Cups

FA Cup- Definate shift in English powerhouses now with Maidenhead's Marouane Chamakh scoring the only goal in front of 48450 against Macclesfield.

Community Shield- Chelmsford beat Chesterfield on penalties after a 1-1 draw.

Paint Trophy - Rochdale beat Braintree 1-0

FA Trophy- Sunderland overcame Notts County.

Europe

Another uninspiring season in Europe for the English contingent.

Champions League

Chesterfield crashed out the group stages, beating Panathanaikos and losing the rest.

Macclesfield could only muster one draw in the group stages, losing the rest.

Southend lost to Marseille in the Best Placed Playoff, thus entering the Europa League.

Europa League

Southend drew one game in the group stages and lost the rest. Surprise surprise!

In the 4th Qualifying round, Wrexham lost 6-0 to Sevilla, Chelmsford lost 6-1 to Leverkusen and Luton beat Olimpija Ljubljana of Slovenia in the third round to lose 3-0 to Lazio in the 4th Qualifying round.

European Qualification Next Season

Another poor lot of performances ended up in a demotion in qualification spots.

Macclesfield enter the group stage of the Champions League.

Portsmouth enter the Best Placed Playoff.

In the Europa League, Maidenhead and Southend enter the 4th Qualifying round; Chesterfield the 3rd and Luton the 2nd.

Next season sees the return of the big guns to the Premier League. Will they be able to buy decent players on average finances, or have they got to the league in time to dominate? It is also starting to appear that teams in the Premier League are buying well. So could Macclesfield improve on their dire performances in Europe?

As I say, if anyone wants to see anything in particular, I save all the leagues on back up before I holiday a season, so I can print off any screenshot you like.

[sebs]

ok, want to see the premiership predicted finishes for next season.

i'm betting man utd win the league. they've steamrollered everything in their path so far.

[sebs]

incidentally, who is the man utd manager?

[toonbalmy87]

did you touch the reputation of the old PL gang

[SuperDan!]

Here, as requested is the predictions for the next season:

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]Predicted

Position

[/TD]

[TD] Team

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1st

[/TD]

[TD]Portsmouth

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2nd

[/TD]

[TD]Man Utd

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]3rd

[/TD]

[TD]Liverpool

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]4th

[/TD]

[TD]Macclesfield

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]5th

[/TD]

[TD]Sheff Utd

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]6th

[/TD]

[TD]Chesterfield

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]7th

[/TD]

[TD]Southend

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]8th

[/TD]

[TD]Gillingham

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]9th

[/TD]

[TD]Luton

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]10th

[/TD]

[TD]Exeter

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]11th

[/TD]

[TD]Maidenhead

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]12th

[/TD]

[TD]Wrexham

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]13th

[/TD]

[TD]Sutton Utd

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]14th

[/TD]

[TD]Solihull Moors

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]15th

[/TD]

[TD]Chelmsford

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]16th

[/TD]

[TD]Dorchester

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]17th

[/TD]

[TD]Basingstoke

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]18th

[/TD]

[TD]Bath

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]19th

[/TD]

[TD]Welling

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]20th

[/TD]

[TD]Bishops Stortford

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

The Man Utd manager is currently Carlo Ancelotti.

And nope, the old PL gang has the same reputation as it did in the Premier League. I figured changing it wouldn't result in anything, just a bunch of crappy teams in a low division with big stadiums they can't fill. I wanted the game to self destruct their reputation itself through playing in lower leagues. As I say, its literally like the Rangers situation, theyre still well known, if not more televised now than they were before. Their reputation is still high, hence why players are still signing for them. I just did that on an extreme scale.

Incidentally, I have done the holidaying for the next season, some VERY interesting developments I'll have you know.

[BenArsenal]

My guess is that eventually the former PL teams will end up back where they belong (at least the big ones anyway), and things will be restored to their natural order at the top.

I find it a bit alarming though that Villa, Sunderland and Everton can't make it out of the lower leagues.

[SuperDan!]

I would have to agree. Although it won't be easy for the big teams, who have had many seasons without income to satisfy high wages. Think there will be some teams from the Prem with a lot of championship teams and league one too. It'll take a few seasons though. Doubt Leeds or Leicester will become big teams again either. Either way, there will be a massive change in some leagues.

[SuperDan!]

Any predictions on the Premier League winner?

[BenArsenal]

Man U, definitely.

[Rikulec]

United or Liverpool.

[sebs]

ok i'm going to go for an odds-defying second title in a row for macclesfield

[SuperDan!]

UPDATE 2016-2017

Well, there was a lot of development this season. Man Utd and Liverpools first season in the Premier league was interesting, but this season is mainly the season where the English league system gets itself back on track, and neither Man Utd or Liverpool were the reason.

The Premier League was not won by Man Utd, but Liverpool. Man Utd finished 3rd, behind a big spending Portsmouth, who included Ryan Shawcross and Joe Allen to their squad amongst many others. Jordan Rhodes joined Solihull for 10.75m to score 16 goals in his first season. Macclesfield were still up there with a solid finish, but it was another disappointing season for Sheffield Utd, who managed mid table. There is definitely now a distinguishing factor of former non league teams who have spent well are now competing against the top teams in the division. The others are just waiting to be relegated.

The Championship was also an enjoyable season. Arsenal and Man City joined their ex Premier teams in the top flight next season, after both having solid seasons. The most surprising inclusion to the Premier League next season will be Farnborough. Salisbury finished high again but they failed in the playoffs, AGAIN. Tonbridge continued their descent down the leagues with consecutive relegations.

Chelsea and Swansea enjoyed another good season resulting in the inevitablity that they will soon be ending up in the Premiership. Northampton join them in promotion from a league which is still essentially consisting of Blue Sq Prem teams.

Spurs and West Brom were promoted from League Two, with two other League Two teams, who may join them in the Premiership too. It will be these teams that will indicate how far the teams in League One and Championship have come along as the former Prem teams are just steamrolling their way through. Havant and Waterlooville entered administration, the first real life non league team to do so in this gamesave.

[SuperDan!]

UPDATE 2016-2017 CONTINUED

Newcastle and Wolves gained promotion from the Blue Sq Prem. It is these teams that will now struggle to get back into the Premiership if teams in the league above are actually using their spending power now. Also consider the amount of seasons these teams have had outside the league.

The Blue Sq North was surprising somewhat. Wigan, who had suffered midtable obscurity for many years, have finally gained promotion to the Blue Sq Premier, along with Everton. Note Sunderlands mid table problems. They are now on the brink of administration even though they havent actually entered it yet. Aston Villa still suck.

The Blue Sq South is now pretty much a lower league teams league next season. QPR came out of debt to gain promotion, however whether they will survive next season is another matter. Kudos to Carshalton for surviving yet another year! Here's hoping for another season after that!

Cups

FA Cup- Wrexham beat Luton 4-1 in front of 82042. Fans are now becoming more noticable towards the Premier League teams, attendances are on the rise.

Community Shield - Macclesfield asserted their dominance to beat Maidenhead 4-1.

Paint Trophy- Brackley beat Colwyn Bay 3-1

FA Trophy- Newcastle beat MK Dons on penalties.

Europe

Now for the interesting bit. I will do this from the start of the Champions League.

Portsmouth entered the Best Placed playoff from the 3rd Qual Stage and beat Galatasaray 4-2. They went on to play Zenit to try and enter the group stages, yet lost 3-1 overall, thus entering the Europa League. Macclesfield gained a respectable 3rd position in the group stages of the Champions League and entered the first knockout round of the Europa League.

In the Europa League, Luton entered the 2nd Qual round, where they beat Metalurgs of Latvia 7-1. Their third round opponents were Olimpija Ljubljana again, who they beat 4-1. They went on to play Steaua Bucharest in the 4th round, where they eventually lost 4-1.

Chesterfield entered in the 3rd Qual round, where they beat Kopur of Slovenia 7-2, and in the 4th Qual Round they beat Young Boys Bern 3-0 to progress to the group stage.

Maidenhead entered at the same stage, but lost to Partizan Belgrade 3-2.

Southend beat APOEL Nicosia 3-2 to enter the group stage also in the 4th Qual round.

Portsmouth, Chesterfield and Southend all progressed through the group stages to enter the first knockout round, meeting Macclesfield.

Southend bowed out, losing 1-0 to Shakhtar Donetsk, as did Chesterfield, who lost 3-2 to Sevilla.

Macclesfield, however, beat Ajax on away goals to enter the second round with Portsmouth, who beat Catania. Macclesfield did lose out to At Madrid 4-2 in the next round though.

Portsmouth were left. They managed to work their way to the final, where they eventually beat At Madrid 1-0 to win the Europa League. This is the first piece of European silverware for an English team in many a year now. Can they repeat their feat next year?

European Qualification

England keep the same amount of spots.

Champions League

Group Stage - Liverpool

3rd Qualifying Best Placed Playoff - Portsmouth

Europa League

4th Qual - Wrexham

3rd Qual - Man Utd

2nd Qual - Chesterfield

So, the big four are in the Premier League next season. Will they dominate? Or will Portsmouth and Macclesfield have an input?

[BenArsenal]

Well that's pretty interesting that Pompey managed to win the Europa. Could English football be coming back?

As for the lower leagues, I reckon a few former Premier League will end up stuck in Blue Square Premier (look at Fulham), but the rest who make it out, they will definitely progress upwards.

[Sledge]

Ironic how Q.P.R had problems in the financial department. Great idea, looking forward for the next update.

[SuperDan!]

Due to popular demand, here is the database available for download.

I'll have another update soon! In the meantime, enjoy!

[musantha]

Hi SuperDan,

I think you might have gotten busy...any update on the next season...waiting to see if Man U got the league this time around

Cheers,

Mugu

[SuperDan!]

I will have another update tomorrow, I promise! Life has caught up with me at the moment, but when I have some free time tomorrow I will write up the update!

Interesting season in Europe again I'll have you know!

[Kid_Amnesiac1]

Any ermm.... update on the update? Looking forward to seeing where this goes

[SuperDan!]

Haha yes sorry! There will be one tonight, its just been the most hectic few days of my life. Absolutely insane, had no time to myself. Update tonight though, promise!

[SuperDan!]

UPDATE 2017-2018

Sorry for the delay in posts, literally have been so very busy, but now some free time means I can write up an update.

This season saw the return of the big four in the Premier League, so finally we will get to see whether a few seasons in the Premier League for the non league teams has had any effect whatsoever. It was also the season to see whether the English teams could build on their performances in Europe from last season.

The Premier League truly did see the return of the big 4. Portsmouth have shown how they can try and compete with the big boys, but finished 5th in the end. The most shocking thing to see is the slump of Sheff Utd and Macclesfield. Sheff Utd have never really impressed but they haven't done anything to impress in this league. Macclesfield have spent well but haven't done anything this season, finishing in a poor position. In transfers, the big clubs are using their reputation to buy back good players from abroad, most notably Nani to Man City.

The Championship saw the return of Swansea and Chelsea to the Premier League. With 6 of 20 former Premier League teams in the league next season, is the league coming back to normality? Salisbury didnt build on their previous successes, finishing in the lower half. Bath did well though, so maybe they will get promoted next season, but only in the playoffs I reckon.

Tottenham and West Brom dominated League One, with the highly successful Wycombe winning the playoffs to progress. Expect to see these three teams in the Premier League in the near future.

Newcastle and Wolves expected to gain promotion and earnt it with dominant seasons. In terms of other teams, this league is now starting to balance out, with poorer teams getting relegated, Truro and Tamworth suffering this time. Note Wolves' 10 point deduction, although they seemed indifferent to this and still finished in second.

[SuperDan!]

UPDATE 2017-2018 CONTINUED

The Blue Square Premier is now getting clogged with a mixture of League teams. Everton and West Ham were the lucky ones this time, with Wigan following close behind. QPR's lack of income meant they struggled this season, I'm sure itll be a few seasons before they pull of a surprise again.

The BSN is now like a departure lounge for Championship teams waiting to get promoted. Stafford had a surprisingly solid season, overtaking Bury and Oldham in the league. Villa and Sunderland still suck, they look like they will be here for a very long time. The reason for Sunderland sticking where they are is down to the fact they sold many of their best players and cant replace them.

The BSS is a bit more varied than its north counterpart, with a wide selection of teams from leagues. Carshalton ended their stay in this level after entering adminstration. But Hendon looked positive and teams look more likely to survive in this league if they get promoted into it.

Cups

FA Cup- Gillingham overcame Portsmouth 3-2 in front of 90000. No obvious winners in this competition lately.

Community Shield - Liverpool beat Wrexham 2-1. It will be interesting to see the winner of Man City vs Gillingham next year.

Paint Trophy - Wycombe beat Fleetwood 2-0, playing in the Paint Trophy for the last time in a while.

FA Trophy - Scunthorpe beat Brighton on penalties.

Europe

The question is, could the teams replicate their impressive show from last season?

Champions League

Portsmouth entered in the 3rd Qual Best Placed round and lost 3-2 to Panathinaikos, and entered the 4th round of the Europa League.

Liverpool entered at the Group Stage, finishing bottom, drawing 4 and losing the rest.

Europa League

Chesterfield beat Hapoel Haifa 2-0 in the Second Qual Round.

In the Third Qualifying Round, they beat Sarajevo 6-0, and Man Utd beat Portadown 2-0 (ONLY 2-0!!)

In the 4th Qualifying Round, Chesterfield beat Hearts 4-0; Man Utd beat Rapid Wien 4-1, Portsmouth dominated Slaven Belupo from Croatia with a 7-0 scoreline. And Wrexham beat Dinamo Bucaresti 3-2.

So four teams in the group stage.

Man Utd finished top 4-2-0

Pompey also finished top 5-0-1

Wrexham also qualified in second 2-2-2

but Chesterfield went out, finishing 3rd with a record of 1-4-1.

In the 1st Knockout Round, Wrexham bowed out losing to Bordeaux 5-1. However, Portsmouth beat Leverkusen 2-0 and Man U beat PSG 3-0.

The 2nd Knockout saw Portsmouth beat Ajax 2-0 and Man U beat Wrexhams conquerors 7-3.

So onto the Quarters, and England have two teams!

Man U had to beat Dortmund and did so, by winning 6-3 on agg. Pompey did the same, winning 7-2 against Marseille.

In the semis, Man U beat Fiorentina 6-3 to enter the final, where they would meet.... Portsmouth! who won 5-2 against CSKA Moscow.

So the all english final, but who would win?!

Portsmouth beat Man Utd 1-0 to retain their title!

European Qualification

Champions League Group Stage - Man City

3rd Qual Best Placed - Man U

Europa League Group Stage - Portsmouth

Europa League 4th Qual - Gillingham

EL 3rd Qual - Arsenal

EL 2nd Qual - Liverpool

So another great season in Europe for the English. Will the English dominance retain itself now the big boys are officially back?

[18Rabbit]

Nice finish for Portsmouth!

[BenArsenal]

Loving this! Keep going...

[SuperDan!]

Haha I will, moving house at the moment, so been without internet. Update soon!

[arsenalthebest]

keep going this is interesting btw do you have a copy of this from season 1? cause i want to do my own experiment and see how it goes

[sweep17]

More please this is interesting stuff.

[Things Could Get Messi]

Hello Dan. Believe it or not, I have ran this sort of game twice before, once on FM11 and once on FM12. However I never did post my results so no problems with you doing it. I actually found it quite fun but only did about 10 seasons on both games. Just some of the things that I can sort of remember from my experiment...

The teams that do well get promoted from their divisions very early. Those who get promoted 1st season tend to just romp up the pyramid. Relegation early on usually sees a total collapse and 6 drops in a row is very common!

The Premier League clubs steadily buy better players over time. Because the minnows don't spend much money in early seasons on transfers or wages, they end up with huge amounts in the bank from the TV money.

The Premier League prize money drops considerably after a couple of seasons. 6m for the winner was what I seem to remember it being. Places in Europe also drop due to poor showings. Only 1 automatic spot the Premier League in the CL and 2 qualifiers after a while.

The Championship ends up very unpredictable as the game progresses. Clubs getting relegated from the Prem steadily get stronger while the teams promoted from League 1 get steadily weaker.

League 2 becomes possibly the weakest division on the game. With only 2 bad teams getting relegated from it and 4 being dropped from League 1 it generally just fills up with clubs that are totally rubbish!

The BSP is always a hard league with a high number of former Prem and Championship sides in it. The teams in it do generally get weaker over time as they don't buy any players. However, promotion from it does mean a guaranteed romp of League 2!

The FA Cup can almost be won by anybody. Peterborough, Telford and Farnborough are just some of the teams to win it on my saves. Former Prem teams don't seem to care about it and tend to get beat in the early rounds. The League Cup didn't work for me either.

[Guest]

awesome experiment!

[aldojags]

Just read this start to finish, what a fantastic idea! Great reading! You abandoning this and starting again FM13 or keeping it going?