Silk & Steel - The Quickening......... exclusively for 14.3

[MTM1977]

I agree. Majority of the goals were such that opponent passed either between FB/CB or CB/CB and then there was someone free to score. They also converted those situations in to goals really effectively. On one match opponent had 3 shots on goal (all such as described above) and they also had 3 goals...

One thing that also might help is to drop the DLP in to DM position, that might reduce at least the pass between CB's goals. Maybe...

I have also started to think that Hassle Opponents might do more harm than good with the latest ME. It was really effective before, but now it seems to make the defenders too aggressive. They charge at the opponents, miss their interception and again, someone through on goal.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Am i the only person that thinks that 4th place isn't too shabby? Juve almost always run away with the title 1st season and you're only 4pts off 2nd. I get there's certain issues with the defence, but overall that's pretty good going results wise. Chievo and Samp (along with Livorno) are always difficult teams to breakdown and I have always struggled against said teams, particularly in the 1st and 2nd seasons. Other than that, losing to Juve is to be expected, especially in the 1st season.

[MTM1977]

Am i the only person that thinks that 4th place isn't too shabby? Juve almost always run away with the title 1st season and you're only 4pts off 2nd. I get there's certain issues with the defence, but overall that's pretty good going results wise. Chievo and Samp (along with Livorno) are always difficult teams to breakdown and I have always struggled against said teams, particularly in the 1st and 2nd seasons. Other than that, losing to Juve is to be expected, especially in the 1st season.

That's true. The fact however is that if our defending would have been a bit better, we wouldn't have lost some of the games and would probably have won all the matches which ended in draw.

And like said before, it was mainly two kinds of goals we were conceding. Surely something can be done to reduce the amount of those through balls (although they seem to be quite high in this ME)?

[Mr U Rosler]

There's definately room for improvement defensively.

You cant do too much about strikers missing good chances but if your tighter at the back your strikers dont need to score that many to get a result.

Rebuilding tactic now from ground up.

I also want to get away from 'broad sweeping' team instructions i.e tight marking, roam from positions etc. I might want certain players doing those things but not the whole team all the time. Going to do more via player instructions.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Edit: Having re read this post, I'm coming across as argumentative when that's not my intention at all, so I'll scrap this reply.

[Paggioram]

I am running a test with Glasgow Rangers. Had some interesting developments. My preseason was 6 friendlies and 4 of these were away against top teams in Holland and it ended with Won 5 Drew 1 Scored 11 Against 3.

As the season kicks off my first 5 games against league Clubs and also League Cup and challenge cup we look as I would expect from Rangers really strong Won the lot Scored 10 and none against

But then....

The first real test Home to Aberdeen. Obviously we were favourites and we dominated the match from start to finish and lost 2-0.

What I found of interest is most of the Rangers shots were from outside the box and both of their goals were beating my keeper at the near post.

I have not made any transfers, I will let you know how it progresses but it did worry me how easy they got to the near post to score and the long shots.

[Jorgen]

At the moment I use S&S-Q with my Ajax team in 2nd season. (1st season was RM2 and S&S2 which got me to the 2nd place in the competition and losing the EL final)

Now, after 5 matches, I've won 2, lost 3; scored 10, conceded 10; so ended up with only 6 points and a GD of 0 at the 10th place right now.

Won in the CL qualification with 2-0 from AC Milan, after a 1-0 loss away.

Also, I receive far more yellow and red cards than last season (with the above mentioned RM2 and S&S2) and have a lot more injuries.

I think I'll give it another 5-10 competition matches (hoping they won't fire me by then) to see if it gets better or not.

Otherwise I think I'll return to RM2 and S&S2 until S&S-Q will be more solid.

Passing seems very nice in my matches, but opponents score at will sometimes. I lost my 1st competition match vs PSV with 6-3 (!!)

Hope this information helps you to get your tactic they way you want it, as my comments are solely meant to help and not to criticize you. (Very happy that I finished 2nd in the EL for example)

[danthemanwhocan]

Might I recommend using this tactic with Villa? I think Villa would be th eperfect team for this type of tactic.

[Mr U Rosler]

Might I recommend using this tactic with Villa? I think Villa would be th eperfect team for this type of tactic.

Newcastle, Southampton, Swansea are 8,9,10 in media prediction. Will go for one of them initially I think.

[Paggioram]

As I have continued the Rangers test in the league we are as you would expect a beast. So far in the league player 5 won 5 Scored 10 and conceded 0 already 7 points clear. But another cup against a team in a higher league finished 0-0 but lost on pens but again dominated but could not take chances.

However loving the inside forwards.

Another issue is the amount of red cards but then I sacrifice the false 9 and it still seems strong.

[Mr U Rosler]

I've got a much improved version on the go at the moment.

Altered the formation slightly to make it more solid, changed mentality to balanced/control in line with original S&S which improves defence and i've gone with a minimalist approach to team and player instructions stripping them right down which is also helping.

tweaked player instructions in particular removing get further forward from the CM/a's and they seem to be timing there attacking runs much better.

My main decision now regards retain possession, i've taken it off. We've stopped winning the possession battle and its 50/50 now but we are using the ball better and it hasnt stopped us dominating shots & Clear Cut Chances etc.....

[MTM1977]

I've got a much improved version on the go at the moment.

Altered the formation slightly to make it more solid, changed mentality to balanced/control in line with original S&S which improves defence and i've gone with a minimalist approach to team and player instructions stripping them right down which is also helping.

tweaked player instructions in particular removing get further forward from the CM/a's and they seem to be timing there attacking runs much better.

My main decision now regards retain possession, i've taken it off. We've stopped winning the possession battle and its 50/50 now but we are using the ball better and it hasnt stopped us dominating shots & Clear Cut Chances etc.....

Sounds good.

I think retain possession can be useful command, but maybe not for 90 minutes. My understanding is that the "correct way" to use it is when you are protecting lead at later stages of match.

I admit it has worked well in earlier tactics, but then again S&S v2 worked fine without it also

[Mr U Rosler]

Regarding retain possession.

Just had a game away at Man City, they were dominating possession but i was creating the best chances so got a bit greedy and left it off.

They scored in the 60th minute, but i managed to equalize 5 minutes later, at that point I added retain possession and didnt see another highlight until the end of the game. job done, on the bus home undefeated.

i think I will leave retain possession off and recommend it as a 'shout' when you need it, i.e under the kosh or protecting a lead which i think its actually designed for and not using it all the time.

[Mr U Rosler]

OK,

This is probably not the finished article on the back of a couple of hours work but its a much better tactic than the original.

Note the tweaked formation and minimal team instructions.

Much cleaner tactic, more incisive in attack and retains defensive shape far better.

And the inside forwards now swap positions during match

'Balanced' Tactic

Download here

https://www.mediafire.com/?2byoruvl2ncb3zt

[MTM1977]

If i have time tomorrow, i will make the "Rome test" with this one. See how it compares to the previous version.

edit:

I just put this to training for my career game (still in Portugal).

I will test it once i get it nearly fluid.

[Silverfiress]

Question, might sound silly, would you consider dropping the wingers to MR/ML position to help the Middlefield abit more and track down players?

[MTM1977]

Question, might sound silly, would you consider dropping the wingers to MR/ML position to help the Middlefield abit more and track down players?

Doesn't sound silly to me. I was actually thinking the same thing today

I was even considering flat 4-5-1, could work with right roles and instructions... at least i think so.

[Silverfiress]

Having IF's leaves alot of space behind them and regardless how good your FB's are we will see that odd chance that they're day dreaming while some of the Lennon's of Spurs just jinks past them and passes it in the net

[Silverfiress]

BTW, im currently testing your updated tactic with Spurs with some success, tho i want to finish atleast 20 games.

[Mr U Rosler]

Question, might sound silly, would you consider dropping the wingers to MR/ML position to help the Middlefield abit more and track down players?

Not silly at all.

But that would leave us with one massively isolated frontman.

I still want an attacking tactic at heart and I love the inside forwards now.

Not saying it couldn't/wouldn't work but not a route i want to go down at the moment.

Now matter how defensive you get you can still concede from a set piece, penalty, killer thru ball or lucky long shot.

I still believe you need to score 2 or more goals in as many games as possible to mitigate that.

I think the updated tactic is a big step in the right direction and we have plenty of time to improve things further.

[Silverfiress]

Not silly at all.

But that would leave us with one massively isolated frontman.

I still want an attacking tactic at heart and I love the inside forwards now.

Not saying it couldn't/wouldn't work but not a route i want to go down at the moment.

Now matter how defensive you get you can still concede from a set piece, penalty, killer thru ball or lucky long shot.

I still believe you need to score 2 or more goals in as many games as possible to mitigate that.

I think the updated tactic is a big step in the right direction and we have plenty of time to improve things further.

Agreed, Lamela is on fire for me. Sadly Soldado has 13h or something without scoring.. :/

[Mr U Rosler]

Agreed, Lamela is on fire for me. Sadly Soldado has 13h or something without scoring.. :/

Funny that, Soldado always score against my Chelsea team, he's 2nd only to Shane Long in my 'annoying' shortlist who i now have nightmares about

[Silverfiress]

Has anyone tried setting OI's or atleast letting the AssMan do them? Any improvement, even slightly?

[Silverfiress]

Funny that, Soldado always score against my Chelsea team, he's 2nd only to Shane Long in my 'annoying' shortlist who i now have nightmares about

I remmember a WBA save on fm12 or fm13, where i managed a top4 finish with WBA, Shane was a beast

[Mr U Rosler]

Don't forget....

Protecting a lead, under the cosh... add RETAIN POSSESSION......

Right, i'm off to bed..... no doubt to have nightmares about Shane Long........... he's so damn quick......... i should just sign him.........

[Mr U Rosler]

Has anyone tried setting OI's or atleast letting the AssMan do them? Any improvement, even slightly?

Don't go there...........

[MTM1977]

Has anyone tried setting OI's or atleast letting the AssMan do them? Any improvement, even slightly?

The problem with OI's is that they often conflict with TI's and/or PI's.

Meaning that you have a certain idea how you want the team to play and you set TI's and PI's to do that. Then assman throws in OI's and it makes the players do something that you weren't planning.

I think the only way to go with OI's would be that they would be part of the tactic. So, depending on opponent formation, you would have different set of OI's built in to tactic.

I tried that with one of my own experiments, but i didn't get any benefit from it. Seems to work well in some tactics though.

[Silverfiress]

I just lost at Stamford Bridge 5-1.

Dawson had 4.9 rating, and Vertonghen had 5.3.. 3 goals were scored by Willian from a through ball from either Oscar or Lampard :/

This is nothing any tactic could have done, my defense was terrible.

[Silverfiress]

I just lost at Stamford Bridge 5-1.

Dawson had 4.9 rating, and Vertonghen had 5.3.. 3 goals were scored by Willian from a through ball from either Oscar or Lampard :/

This is nothing any tactic could have done, my defense was terrible.

Very pleased to say that my team bounced back and we won vs ManUtd at White Heart Lane 4-0

[Eleanor_Rigby]

I went 5-0 down within 20mins against Udinese and I actually had to check to see if i had put an outfield player in goal in error. Then it was my turn to hit them for 6 or ... 7. I actually won the game 7-6 and it's the very, very first time in all my years playing CM/FM that i have ever done that. Call me old fashioned, but I'm kinda jittery about using this tweaked tactic again.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Nah, i can safely say the tweaked tactic isn't going to last long in my save. I just got horsed 5-1 from Genoa (who are bottom). The defence are all over the shot.

[Silverfiress]

Yes. after i won vs ManUtd, i lost 2-0 vs West Ham away with the same team that beat ManUtd 4-0. Their two goals actually came from build-up play which just shred my defensive like nothing :/

[heddy]

Your original tactic made me win 7 in a row and with some beutiful football on display. Only using it at home though...usig silk and steal away

[Mr U Rosler]

Not seeing any of that high levels of goals conceded myself?

Firing up a Southampton save now, wont get very far this morning as setting off for work in 30 mins.

Will get a good look tonight.

We have a flat back 4 with no one on attacking duty covered by a DM on defend duty so its not as if i've completely neglected the defence??

Hmmm......

p.s Does keeping retain possession on make any difference ?

[Mr U Rosler]

Yeah, its far too open.

retain possession and hassle opponents needs to go on for starters + shorter passing on team instructions.

Seem to be losing my touch..........

[MTM1977]

Yeah, its far too open.

retain possession and hassle opponents needs to go on for starters + shorter passing on team instructions.

Seem to be losing my touch..........

Nah, you'll get there

Could the AML/AMR be more useful at both end of the pitch, if they had some other role than IF?

[jamesh2k]

This is nothing any tactic could have done, my defense was terrible.

bit like real life then

[MTM1977]

One question.

Have you made up your mind about the formation?

I still think that the "good old formation" is the best one.

I am currently using a tactic, which is based on S&S v2, but i have made several tweaks to TI's, PI's duties and roles. The formation however is the same that S&S v2 has.

So far it has worked really well, used it in 4 matches, won 4 matches. Goals for 12 and goals against 3. I will continue using it for the rest of my season and see how it goes.

[Mr U Rosler]

One question.

Have you made up your mind about the formation?

I still think that the "good old formation" is the best one.

I am currently using a tactic, which is based on S&S v2, but i have made several tweaks to TI's, PI's duties and roles. The formation however is the same that S&S v2 has.

So far it has worked really well, used it in 4 matches, won 4 matches. Goals for 12 and goals against 3. I will continue using it for the rest of my season and see how it goes.

Not made my mind up about anything yet!

I have been thinking about the 41311 I used in Rainmaker v3 with the F9/Shadow Striker combo.

Starting to question the inside forward position.

The AI teams seem to have no problem running straight thru your centre backs and scoring so in theory it should be good for us.

Looks like we're gonna have to pack midfield again with the Anchor in the DM position x2 box to box guys + the cm/a, like back in the day :-)

I'm working again today but will get a few hours in tonight and then have a couple of days off to get things sorted.

[MTM1977]

Sounds good!

The "tweaked S&S v2" still works well.

I have now lost two games with it, but both were such that we were really unlucky to lose them.

First was 1-1 in 88th minute, then opponent got a freekick and one of those "lots of guys in penalty box, let's award a penalty" things happened. Didn't see any foul but apparently still was worth a penalty. Naturally we lost.

Second one was even more frustrating. Again we lost 2-1. Both goals we conceded were own goals. And even replicas of each other. Opponent crosses, it hits our defender and slowly slides in to goal.

Couple of more games to go until season ends. Lets see how the tactic holds.

edit:

Going to do one change. Drop the AF in to SS position. I currently have DLF/AF combo, but it is the same old story. One of them performs in a match, but not both at the same time.

Let's see if DLF/SS combo would do better.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Yeah, its far too open.

retain possession and hassle opponents needs to go on for starters + shorter passing on team instructions.

Seem to be losing my touch..........

With those tweaks my next 3 results were as follows:

Barca away 1-1

Catania - home 2-0 (win)

Palermo - away 4-0 (win)

I'm seeing a vast improvement with my defence. Barca went down to 10 men pretty much straight away, so maybe it doesn't show a true reflection of the tactic, but still I'm happy.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Next 2 results:

Napoli - away 3-1 (win)

Inter - Home 2-0 (win)

I wouldn't go touching too much, mate. Those tweaks have improved it 10 fold.

[AlCapone]

still i think this tactick need testing with lower teams and tweaking for lower team then it gona be godlike i know fm14 isnt like fm10/11 where you could pwn evrybody with super small club.

[Mr U Rosler]

still i think this tactick need testing with lower teams and tweaking for lower team then it gona be godlike i know fm14 isnt like fm10/11 where you could pwn evrybody with super small club.

I'm using Southampton as my test tram now.

6 or 7 good players, the rest are pretty average/poor.

Will be much clearer as to what is and what isn't working,

[Mr U Rosler]

Before I left for work this morning I quickly adjusted the tactic to include retain possession, shorter passing, hassle opponents and updated the down load link on first post.

If your not sure it had 'a' on the end of the tactic name.

[AlCapone]

I'm using Southampton as my test tram now.

6 or 7 good players, the rest are pretty average/poor.

Will be much clearer as to what is and what isn't working,

Nice ! cant wait to see resultats i would try with out wing swaping cuz i think lower teams arent good with that options and tweak defence a litle bit more .

[Silverfiress]

May i suggest something, not sure if it is appropiate or not.

But you could try checking a similar formation tactic from the footballmanagerstory site called Screwby's 4-3-3. His defence is leaking as well but not as much as yours (no offence). It is far more solid for my Spurs save, i was almost fired by Mr. Levy, they told me to get 10 points out of my next 5 games ( i was 12th in the league) or its the gutter.

I switched to this tactic and went on to win 14 straight games breaking the record. Currently in 4th place

Also no signings so far.

Might be worth checking his defensive instructions but i could understand if you want this to be all "you"

[Eleanor_Rigby]

May i suggest something, not sure if it is appropiate or not.

But you could try checking a similar formation tactic from the footballmanagerstory site called Screwby's 4-3-3. His defence is leaking as well but not as much as yours (no offence). It is far more solid for my Spurs save, i was almost fired by Mr. Levy, they told me to get 10 points out of my next 5 games ( i was 12th in the league) or its the gutter.

I switched to this tactic and went on to win 14 straight games breaking the record. Currently in 4th place

Also no signings so far.

Might be worth checking his defensive instructions but i could understand if you want this to be all "you"

Have you tried it with the tweaks? I was having huge issues with the one released last night, but after the tweaks, I've only conceded 4 in 8 games. I'm Fiorentina, so you have the better team.

[Finknottle]

Mr Rosler I think that you already have more than enough 'advisers' so I shall be brief.

In all of the variations of your tactics I have not seen a narrow 4-3-1-2 idea put forward. With my rather limited tactics knowledge, with regards to FM, I would start of with a very 'Tactics Creator' set up. thus,

Gk, two full backs, one attacking and one support. The three midfielders are on defend, support and attack. The AMC on attack duty, is just that and the strikers are DLF, support and AF attack, accordingly.

That's it. You will know better than I whether or not it might be successful but I am considering using it in a new save with Liverpool until you finalise your sets. Thank you.

[ipswichjon2]

I've tried this with a tweaked version removing the wingers and using either a regista at the base of a midfield diamond or a 4 man narrow midfield, Shadow striker and DLP. I adjusted the formation mainly to counter the stream of attack through the middle and it seems to have worked, gone from scoring for fun but conceding loads to giving up considerably less CCC chances. Orange is the quickening, blue is the tweaked version:

http://s1.postimg.org/i232jamdb/Ipswich_Town_Fixtures_Schedule_3.png

A swing of conceding 14 in 5 games to just 3 in 5 games. Not conclusive in itself but after watching some full matches, I think this tweak has been effective in releasing the midfield runners and preventing those irritating through balls that seem to slice through the centre of defence at will. I have put retain possession on whenever we're defending a lead in the last 10 minutes and switched formations each game to just to keep the opposition manager guessing.