The Manchester United thread 2006/2007 - featuring BBB leaving early

[Keyser]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ryno:

Maybe it is just me, but I really can't see where the defending of Ronaldo has come from?

He has blantantly acted on pure selfishness against memeber of his own football club who pay his wages. He did it to Rooney and he did it to Gary Neville. If he thinks that all is going to be forgot and forgiven when the season comes, then he is still very immature and that is just something that we don't want.

If he is still at our club at the end of August, I am personally going to hunt him down and shoot him on his doorstep. Yes the guy showed where his heart may be, but winning games in that manner doing something which you shouldn't have got involved in was just plain idiotic and something which many people, including you lot have wanted to stop/be cut out of the game.

Rio, Gaz, Rooney and Ruud shold take it in turns kicking the crap out of him in training now, especially if it turns out he might be leaving the following week or something.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, he should have just given the ball to those players as much as possible, he should have helped ensure that England go out and Portugal lose, after all, an English club pay his wages

At the end of the day, he knew Rooney was easy to wind up, they ensured he got wound up enough to get sent off. Its sad, but its part of the game. Surely we should be looking at Rooney's temprament and how we can stop him overreacting like he does rather than just blaming another of our players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you take away Rooney's temperament and he's an eigth of the player he is now.

take away Ronaldo's snideyness and he's a better player all round.

[BBB]

I hadn't heard much of them either tbf, Gregg just bought himself longer blocking time

[BBB]

I might make the *Official OTF MUFC trip to Amsterdam* thread

[Barry Cartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB:

Any of the Manchester lot fancy Altrincham V FC Utd next Wednesday at Moss Lane? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You not going to try and arrange a meet up for the Maine Road v FCUM game?

Going to be big time kicking off there

[BBB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> UNITED’S DEBT BURDEN DOUBLES

Refinancing of crippling PiK debt gets the Glazers out of a hole, but

hugely increases the risks for our football club

MUST statement 14 July 2006

*

United debt set to more than double to £575m

*

Interest rate bill set to almost double to £42m p.a.

*

Glazers shift their personal debt onto United, as they can't afford to pay it themselves

*

Stakes raised in Glazer debt gamble, banks to take tighter grip on Old Trafford

So we are back to where we were in October 2004, when Malcolm Glazer submitted his first takeover plan to the MU Board, which involved the club taking on over £500m of bank debt so Glazer could buy it. The then United Board rejected the plan as“not being in the best interests of the company†because of the level of debt.

In his next attempt in February 2005, Glazer was forced to reduce the amount of debt leveraged on the club from £500m to £265m. The remainder he proposed to borrow from hedge funds at a blended interest rate of 18%. The United Board still rejected his second proposal as being “aggressive†and “potentially damaging to the clubâ€. Glazer eventually succeeded in his takeover by buying out the Irish – but only with the hugely expensive debt.

It is the spiralling cost of the hedge fund debt that is forcing the Glazers to refinance, which is why we are seeing the original debt plan back in play. And it is the club which will carry the huge burden – as Glazer originally intended. The Glazers clearly can’t afford to repay their own hedge fund debt, so Manchester United is expected to do it for them.

According to credible City sources, the new plan is to raise some £575m of senior debt, borrowed by (and secured against the assets of) Manchester United, the proceeds of which will go to pay down not only the existing JP Morgan senior secured debt currently standing at some £250m, but also the amount Glazer borrowed from the hedge funds - £275m. There will also be a revolving working capital credit facility of £50m – bringing the grand total of new debt loaded onto Manchester United to a staggering £575 million.

In addition, the Glazers will have to raise a further £130m from other hedge funds just to pay the accrued interest on the PiK debt for the two years commencing May 2005. They will consider this a more comfortable level of debt for their family, but will still have to pay interest on this debt at around 15% a year.

All this to get the Glazers out of their hedge fund debt “holeâ€, which in their desperation, they took on so they could win their ‘prize’. A massive gamble that they took with our club, and on which they have now upped the stakes. Using our club as the biggest gambling chip in the world.

The new debt to be carried by United now comfortably exceeds the amount which was so firmly rejected by the previous Board in October 2004. It will be interesting to see how David Gill now describes this debt – is it still “serviceable†and are you still “comfortable†with it, David? Do you now think it is the interests of the company?

Certainly the interest rates are lower than those applying to the current JP Morgan debt. The new rates range from 6.8% at the bottom end to 10.2% on the second tier loan of £150m. But since the total debt has more than doubled, the interest and repayment terms mean higher annual outgoings to the banks.

We don’t know the annual repayment terms yet, but the interest is calculated as follows:

First tier senior secured debt

* A loan 7 year term £75m 2.125% over LIBOR = 6.825% p.a.

* B loan 8 year term £150m 2.625% over LIBOR = 7.325% p.a.

* C loan 9 year term £150m 3.00% over LIBOR = 7.7% p.a.

* Working Cap - Revolver 7 year term £50m Undrawn, rate not known

* Second tier ‘lien tranche’

10 year term £150m 5.50% over LIBOR = 10.2% p.a.

* Total loans £575m

Without the working capital revolving facility, the annual interest rate bill on the senior debt is £42m as of today. This will increase as interest rates rise all over the world. This compares with the current interest rate bill of £24m – almost double.

And this does not include the annual repayments of principal on this debt which the club will have to pay on top of the interest bill. This element could add at least £20m to the initial annual debt cost (and rising), depending on the terms of the loan agreements.

What has changed to allow the Glazers to tap the corporate debt markets with such an aggressive financing?

Well it isn’t the current financial performance that’s for sure – EBITDA (cash operating profit) to 30 June 2005 was down to only £46.5 million, not nearly enough to support this level of debt. And this year is not going to be much better, with the early exit from Europe amongst other things. We estimate EBITDA at around £50-55 million for y/e June 2006. These figures will be available when United’s accounts are filed at Companies House early next year.

So what is making the banks (JP Morgan is leading the refinancing efforts again) so bullish? They are basically ‘forward projecting’ to next financial year, 2007-8, when the new TV deal kicks in with another £14m or so, added to the additional £5m from AIG for shirt sponsorship. Then there is the new capacity at Old Trafford, which combined with the inexorable ticket price rises, give the Glazers the hope of adding a further £16m this year (and rising) if all seats and corporate facilities are sold out every game. But there are early signs that this will not happen, same as last year, as United struggle to sell all the executive ‘Super Suites’ at the new reduced price and the marketing techniques they are using to try and get rid of unsold season tickets grow ever more inventive and desperate.

Based on the leaked numbers, United are forecasting EBITDA of £80m for F/Y 2006-7 and £96m for F/Y 2007-8. Much of this, they will argue, is fixed income from contracted revenues. But it must be pointed out that the senior loans are for terms between 7 and 10 years – the contracts being relied on terminate well short of this. So the future of United and its finances are being mortgaged (again) on a promise of ever rising income streams which may not materialise. Our club is the ‘pot’ on the gambling table; the stakes have been raised; and the Glazers and the banks are about to roll the dice again.

Is this all sustainable? Can the TV revenue keep increasing? Will there be enough cash available long-term as well as short-term to build & maintain a competitive team? Whether they are aware of it or not, the pressure on the manager and the team to produce results and trophies is massively increased by the new level of debt on the club. Failure on the pitch will not find forgiveness from banks at this level of debt.

And of course the fans will continue to be expected to pay for the debts, through the turnstiles, at the catering outlets, for parking and for merchandise and programmes – all of which are slated to rise to unheard of levels over the coming years. Those who doubt the Glazers’ capacity to milk fans at sporting events should track what has happened (and continues to happen) at the Raymond James Stadium in Tampa Bay.

The Glazers are re-making the debt bed – and it is the club and the fans who will have to lie in it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Taz & The Devil]

Lou Macari missing the point on Sky.

[Ryno]

Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bojinov on loan elsewhere next season.

[Razor Eddie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"There's always huge expectation at our club, and it wouldn't matter if we had won the league the previous season or two years ago," he insisted.

"We always have to win the league." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Feckin' right, too.

[Taz & The Devil]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by No Longer Bling:

tell us your tales of misery taz, if its one thing you can count on its solidarity and support from your fellow reds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its the parents splitting up.

[Mika]

I just think that the defence is fine as it is for the moment, I don't want to change that area at the moment. Given that we'll get say £15m for Ruud, £12 for Mikel and we haven't signed anyone, I don't see what huge difference getting about £3/4m for Silvestre will do, I'd rather just keep him for now.

[Anonymous User]

Ah. No chance of a final confrontation with Ruud before Ronaldo finalises move to Valencia then.

[Jongi]

That's gonna be a hard one to settle. So with the Carrick signing, who is winning?

[CM GOD 69]

I've laughed quite alot tbf. Carrick was worth 13 million at the most, he's a good player but we have just mugged you tbh.

[BBB]

Pete, I'm gonna hit you at Fulham mate

[Baptista_8]

is the game on Sky?

[mrgrapefruits]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by No Longer Bling:

hargreaves alongside carrick would be quite nice tbf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Going from O'Shea and Fletcher - It'd be like finding gold to be honest

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ACou2000:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

For all that Taz always liked to compare Fletcher to how Scholes and Beckham were at 22, he's better than Carrick was at that age. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but Taz doesnt like Carrick either.

Seemed to be quite happy to say he'd written him off already iirc.

Tax ifc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC Taz didn't have a problem with Carrick as a player, just that we overpaid and that he wasn't the type of midfielder that should be our priority, both of which i agree with.

But maybe he didn't say any of that and i'm just using it as an excuse to tell you what i think instead

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mika:

How has Carrick done? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2 or 3 times he's randomly headed the ball up in the air and for me hasn't got involved in the way that we'd want. Getting on the ball and passing it about.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ACou2000:

Ole too hasn't got involved enough :/

We look good in patches. Just not for long enough tbh </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that's still the same after 60 minutes, we could swap him for Park and put Ronnie up front. Or even Giggs, as it worked OK on wednesday.

[Scatter]

gravesen to celtic

[alibaster]

First game at OT - somewhen this season hopefully.

I hate living so far away.......to hard to get to games.....

[14AlanSmithifb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

Basically the best quotes to with football. EVER. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"He's got a foot like a traction engine!"

"The goalkeepers got football-pie all over his shirt"

"**** did you see that!?"

"Yes...Yes...Yes....Yes....YEEEEESSSSS, That was a goal!"

[Champmanlover]

How long was/is he suspended for?

[James07?]

our place

[Young Jimlad]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldberg:

What did it say the last ballot you entered was?

Sounds to me like they have no record of you applying which happens a lot. Happened to me about 5 or 6 times last season. When I rang up explaing they emailed me letting me know they had received my application they basically told me the email was pointless & that there was nothing they could do.

So unless it tells you that the last ballot you entered was Liverpool then you are pretty screwed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it didn't say what the last ballot I entered was but I'm no longer surprised. As you say the TO is a shambles.

Guess I'll just have to wait for an email saying yay or nay & keep an eye open for when the inevitable last few returned tickets go on sale to OU members about 3 days before the match.

[Mika]

Ooh good, we've been chosen as game of the day on Football First, full 90mins on later

[Weststandred]

Did you lot see Savage in the Executive Box to left of United fans?

[pjburrage]

Actually looking at my comment, I think I covered myself well enough with the 'at the moment' part. I'd have to say though that even a team of Scousers would have missed that chance on Saturday.

You know if a Sunday tabloid published a story about some Scouser cheating on his bird, they will get done for libel, as no Scouser can score away from home at the moment.

[Taz & The Devil]

Defoe is crap kid, he is way too greedy, way past the point when he was promising and scores about as often as Robbie Keane. Add in the fact he is 3 foot tall so no good in the air and he cant hold the ball up and you realise why we are rumoured to be ready to offer Spurs £12m for their back up striker.

[Saha]

previous page acou my man, taz posted them. fo portuguese sides for awhile too.

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldberg:

But but but Bentley scored a hat trick against us last season so he must be awesome? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

let's buy Edgar too. a goalscoring left back basically Fergie's wet dream.

[ACou2000]

richardson hate couldnt be any more justified.

sh*t sh*t sh*t footballer. gtf out.

[Coldberg]

I got the feeling James was wanting to appluad Rooney from his reaction

[Mika]

Great.

[Rb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gazz22:

I think I read somewhere that Pique was in the Spain under 21s squad to play England tonight. Is this true? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It most certainly is, skysports say here

[Mika]

whs.

Someone text me the draw please *halo*

[James07?]

The Liverpool caveat obviously means it’s the latter, but given a straight choice between the two, I’m leaning towards the league.

[gonch19]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

that europe xi squad looks a bit good now

i'd have definitely gone if it were in may. useless c**ts. mon crippling mancini anyway </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mancini to spend the whole game trying to injure ronaldo tbh

[Mika]

[Weststandred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB:

haha wsr </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it's not funny.

hopefully if we beat watford, the gods will repay me and get me final tickets.

villa park ifb btw.

[Coldberg]

If sitting in the ground for 90 minutes after fulltime means I don't get my face slashed then I am all for it.

Way to pretty to be scarred.

[JulesMUFC]

what channel bling? harry potter will brighten up my day. silver lining and all of that malarky

[fredthered]

4-1 ole!!!

good work from park and rooney to set it up

[Richie J]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saha:

reported bbb for making a mockery of the reporting system

how the times managed to mix up a smallish stocky scouser with a lanky former west ham player born in peckham and with a st. lucian background, who also has cornrows, is amazing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rio has no hair.

[Terry Cheung]

Great and much needed confidence boost now for the run-in. Only hope that United don't get carried away like Arsenal and think they are going to walk the ball into the net against other teams. Need a lot of grit and determination against Watford and Sheffield United in the next 2 games and we'll see off Chelsea.

[RedBlood]

How do the ***** who run football get in the positions in the first place

[Pickles]

Just bought 2 more tickets for tomorrow night for £100 :/ One in West Stand Upper and one in the 4th row of the South Stand.

Can surprise my mates tonight now - with the price of the bloody tickets Been hassling me all weekend to get them a ticket so should shut them up for the rest of the season

[No Longer Bling]

i dont buy the mongy jinx thing but i really think we will struggle at city so the arsenal game still important. hopefully they will be right up for it.