The Manchester United thread 2006/2007 - featuring BBB leaving early

[Coldberg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

blimey, even the sainsburys shelf-stacker is having a pop </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The term is replenishment assistant & that isn't what I do. I thought you cared

[Nick OGS20]

i'm lashing out

[mark g]

Don't worry about crummy jobs. THe main thing when you've not done anything for a while is to get something. Employers are always suspicious about people who aren't in work, so even a crummy job will make it easier to get a decent one.

[Nick OGS20]

yeah, definitely. gonna try going down the temp route i think. been out for a drink with my sister tonight and she said she'd lend me a couple of hundred towards next season's ST if i get some kind of work by the renewal deadline \O/

she's younger than me, i really should be more embarrassed about that than i am.

[Saha]

Choking up at 'replenishment assistant'

Could anyone be a darl and find what our transfer record was roughly the few years before Glazer, as compared to the +4m profit this season?

Just curious really.

[Coldberg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saha:

Choking up at 'replenishment assistant'

Could anyone be a darl and find what our transfer record was roughly the few years before Glazer, as compared to the +4m profit this season?

Just curious really. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Display technician infinitely cooler but the yrefused to put it on my contract

[mark g]

Pop quiz. Last united player to score an FA cup hat trick?

[mark g]

Transfers. You'll have to do a bit of playing around, as what constitutes which season is always a bit screwy, but it's a start.

[Confused Clarity]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

yeah, definitely. gonna try going down the temp route i think. been out for a drink with my sister tonight and she said she'd lend me a couple of hundred towards next season's ST if i get some kind of work by the renewal deadline \O/

she's younger than me, i really should be more embarrassed about that than i am. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

New Depths Nick. Even for you.

[ericcantona7]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Pop quiz. Last united player to score an FA cup hat trick? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scholes?

[Crilly]

new kit?

[ACou2000]

slight improvement on this years

I think

if its even close to what we'll actually wear next year

[theis]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ericcantona7:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Pop quiz. Last united player to score an FA cup hat trick? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scholes? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just done a quick search and as far as I can see nothing since 1990. So no doubt its some match that only Mark and Razor Eddie have seen.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ericcantona7:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Pop quiz. Last united player to score an FA cup hat trick? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scholes? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ericcantona7:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Pop quiz. Last united player to score an FA cup hat trick? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scholes? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just done a quick search and as far as I can see nothing since 1990. So no doubt its some match that only Mark and Razor Eddie have seen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was during a campaign where we went on to lift the trophy, if that helps.

[SLO_Fila]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Transfers. You'll have to do a bit of playing around, as what constitutes which season is always a bit screwy, but it's a start. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mikel is missing from that list.

[theis]

Haha, found it

As I thought most of the thread was either still in nappies or not even born when the last hattrick by a Man Utd player was scored in an FA cup match.

[SLO_Fila]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ACou2000:

slight improvement on this years

I think

if its even close to what we'll actually wear next year </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't like it.

I actually love this year's kit. Probably the only one i will like with the big AIG logo on it.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

Haha, found it

As I thought most of the thread was either still in nappies or not even born when the last hattrick by a Man Utd player was scored in an FA cup match. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was looking for something else when i stumbled across that. I was amazed it was so long ago.

[theis]

Forgot to post who it was

Norman Whiteside v. West Ham in the 1984/85 season.

[mark g]

Go on then, a more recent one. Without looking it up this time, most recent hat trick in a champions league/european cup away game.

[ericcantona7]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Go on then, a more recent one. Without looking it up this time, most recent hat trick in a champions league/european cup away game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

someone v Brondby?

Yorke?

Solskjaer got one somewhere I seem to remember, might have been at home though.

Don't remember Ruud getting one away from home.

the other option would be Cole?

[player_65]

Cole vs. Feyenoord?

[player_65]

'twas either 97/98, or 99/00 (think probably the former) also the game where Bosvelt made that 'tackle' on Denis irwin.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by player_65:

Cole vs. Feyenoord? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct

[James07?]

Cole got a hat-trick in that game? Can't remember that at all, and I was there!

[James07?]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">maximise revenue generated through ticket prices and enhanced stadium facility </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More exec seats on the way? Surely not, as they struggle to sell the ones they have?

[Confused Clarity]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crilly:

new kit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didnt pay attention to it when it was first posted, but as it's been posted again....

Why are we getting a new kit next season? Surely there's another year to go with the current one?

[James07?]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The borrowers make United fans pay for success

Man Utd fans will be counting the cost of the Glazer takeover next season, with ticket prices increasing by 14% to service the club's debts.

David Conn May 16, 2007 2:45 AM

Manchester United's players ended their lap of honour with the Premiership trophy on Sunday at the stand formerly known as the Stretford End, where the fans waited to pledge a devotional "We love you United / We do". Only then, as the players disappeared down the tunnel, did the Glazer brothers finally leave the Old Trafford directors' box, smiling, although for Florida millionaires they looked a little pale.

After the furious fans' battle against their 2005 takeover the Glazers are now the great unspoken. In the strangely subdued atmosphere at that match against West Ham, nobody chanted for them or against them. The fans concentrated on the football, as they have all season, singing only of Rooney, Giggs and Ronaldo. Sir Alex Ferguson thanked "everybody, all these players, all my staff" in his headmasterly speech at the end but did not mention the directors or owners. "Come back next season for more," he smiled to the fans.

Despite the brilliance of his team, more fans will be hesitating about whether to accept Fergie's invitation, given that there will be up to 14% rises in season-ticket prices for 2007-08. On top of that, season-ticket holders will have to buy a ticket for every cup match, a possible extra £300.

All the talk in early spring, encouraged by the sports minister, Richard Caborn, that next season's bumper £2.7bn Premier League TV deal should enable clubs to reduce ticket prices, has wilted. There is no collective Premier League will for football to be more affordable; every club has apparently come to its own commercial decision. Those that struggled to fill their grounds this season, such as Blackburn, Manchester City and Bolton, have announced reductions whereas United believe they will keep attracting a phenomenal 76,000 to every game and so have decided to squeeze more money from their fans.

The Glazers may sensibly be keeping their personal profile low and letting the team do United's talking but these price rises are connected to their takeover and the need to pay off the massive £660m debt with which it has saddled United. The Glazers moved last summer to repay those original borrowings with other loans at less stinging interest and to attract the banks they promoted the current season's 14% price increase. In refinancing documents circulated in the City, which I have seen, the club promised that with the extra money from fans, along with increased TV income, boosted sponsorship deals with AIG and others and the drive to make more money from United's estimated 75m fans globally, the club would be able to repay the debts.

The documents show that the Glazers paid a total of £831m for United - £790m for the club and £41.3m in fees to banks and other professional firms. The family paid only £272m of their own money, borrowing the other £559m. Of the latter, £284m was arranged by the merchant bank JP Morgan and £275m came in much riskier "preferred securities" from three hedge funds, Citadel, Och-Ziff and Perry Capital, charging eye-wateringly high interest.

When the Glazers refinanced, after only a year, those hedge funds had accumulated a further £79.1m in interest and other payments, meaning the total owed to them had swollen to £354.1m. The family managed last summer to negotiate £525m in new loans at lower interest - still over 8%, about £42m a year. That replaced the money they originally borrowed to finance the takeover, except for £138m still owed to the hedge funds. The interest on that is running at 14.25% - £19.66m a year. That makes the total borrowed by the Glazers £663m, more than six times the loans which have proved the ruin of Leeds United. The annual interest alone adds up to £62m.

The warning by the supporter groups about this kind of "leveraged" takeover turned out to be true: the debt borrowed was then loaded on to United itself. The legendary football club, previously - famously - the only English club free of debt, now has to service £663m borrowings and annual interest of £62m. The season-ticket price increase now being charged to fans will go, partly, to service that, the cost of a takeover none of them wanted.

United's spokesman, Phil Townsend, accepted that the debt and interest formed part of United's costs but defended the season-ticket price increase and the cup charges. United's tickets, the lowest still effectively £25, or £10 to under-16s, compare favourably with other clubs', he said. "We know it's a chunky increase but all clubs need to compete and we still offer great entertainment at affordable prices."

The Glazers' refinancing documents, although promising to raise prices overall, did say that it was considered important to keep tickets affordable at the lower end to maintain the "quality of the Old Trafford experience". Presumably that recognises that the less wealthy fans create most of the atmosphere.

Townsend said of the debt repayments that they were "bearable" given United's record-breaking attendances - the highest in Europe - and other commercial earnings which United estimate will take their annual profits every year up to £108.9m by 2011. "We believe the business is sustainable and manageable. The priority is still the team."

The Glazers' plans showed that they wanted United to be clear to spend £25m on players every season, with a further one-off £25m available to splash out on a star. The summer will demonstrate the robustness of that budget and, with the inflation about to hit English football given the increased TV deals, how far it will go to strengthen Ferguson's squad.

Old Trafford may have gone quiet but the dissenters are still around in some numbers. Shareholders United, now renamed the Manchester United Supporters' Trust, has 9,000 paying members and 23,000 signed up to receive information. Those remain enormous figures for any football supporters' group. The Independent Manchester United Supporters Association is still campaigning - its representatives protested bitterly at the season-ticket announcement and warned that many fans would finally be priced out.

Nick Towle, chair of MUST, argues that despite United winning the title the takeover is still a burden hanging over Old Trafford. "The Glazers' business plan looked potentially shaky last season but brilliant performances on the pitch, increased TV and sponsorship deals do make it more likely the club will service these debts. But this is dead money, multimillions paid out in fees, interest and capital, which could be spent on players or used to reduce ticket prices. The Glazers have not brought investment but vast debt to the club."

Such are the ways of business now. Tom Hicks has said that the Glazers showed the other American billionaires the riches in English football. Since the Premier League began in 1992 there has been talk of bubbles bursting, but 75,927 people were at Old Trafford to see West Ham's 1-0 win and United's dance with the trophy, the images beamed around the world. Premiership football is booming, not declining, and the Glazers have captured the game's most romantic, richest name. They are confident the fans will be back, and that season-ticket money, and all the other earnings, will service the cost of the family's takeover.

Still, their financial plan relies on continuing top-three finishes, reaching the last 16 of the Champions League - and retaining the fans' loyalty. On all these fronts they will have to be careful.

The Family Business

£663m

Total debts taken on by Manchester United to pay for the Glazer family takeover

£70.4m

The total spent on banks' and professionals' fees to arrange the takeover and 2006 refinancing

£62m

United's interest payments a year

£25m

The club's seasonal budget for signing new players, plus a possible further £25m to splash out on a star

57,000

United's season ticket holders this season (2006-07)

14%

Maximum season ticket price rise next season

£300

Possible additional cost - if United progress to later stages of cups - of 2007-08 season tickets because buying cup tickets becomes compulsory </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/05/16/the_borrow...ake_united_fans.html

that's the one you need to bookmark for the next time someone like Franny makes the usual 'dunno what you're all moaning about' comments.

[James07?]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

Why are we getting a new kit next season? Surely there's another year to go with the current one? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure you'll be stunned to know that the club announced a little while ago that we'll now be changing kits every year.

Their marker research showed that each new kit is a source of enormous excitement for us fans, so simply to please the masses they’re doing us the honour of releasing more. Nothing whatsoever to do with finding every last opportunity to suck each and every penny of disposable income out of anyone that’s ever heard the name ‘bobby charlton’ honest.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">£62m

United's interest payments a year </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compared to the most important figure, which was not mentioned in that otherwise excellent article

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">operating profit before depreciation and amortisation [i.e before tax] rose to £49.7m in the year to end-June [2006].

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that £62m is purely interest, before we even start reducing the capital. And in a year [june 2005 - june 2006] where we spent a net £11m, less than half the alledged transfer budget.

That figure will rise for this year due to the increased attendance kicking in, and again next year due to the increased TV money. But if the same trend is followed as has happened with every other increase in the TV money, a lot of that will be swallowed up by a significant rise in the wage bill. And we still have to find £12m a season just to make up the shortfall to pay off the interest on the loan. And just consider, that £62m is money that has brought zero benefit to the club. The stadium increase was paid for, the sponsorship deal would have happened with or without the Glazers. With the exception of the dividend payment which would have gone to shareholders, that would have been money which would have been plowed back into the club.

[James07?]

I can’t help but think all this ‘they’re in it for the long term’ is bullsh*t. They’ve taken a punt, and will be more than happy to offload if they can make a half decent profit. I just don’t see how they can get their returns through the natural business cycle.

[davidbowie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

Why are we getting a new kit next season? Surely there's another year to go with the current one? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure you'll be stunned to know that the club announced a little while ago that we'll now be changing kits every year.

Their marker research showed that each new kit is a source of enormous excitement for us fans, so simply to please the masses they’re doing us the honour of releasing more. Nothing whatsoever to do with finding every last opportunity to suck each and every penny of disposable income out of anyone that’s ever heard the name ‘bobby charlton’ honest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Told you guys so.

[gonch19]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

I'd also like to think that the final standings in that table are pretty representative of our respective knowledge about football.

I'll take being the second most knowledgable user in the Man Utd thread tbh </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i am king

[EmmYouEffSee]

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has confirmed that Louis Saha will play no part in Saturday's FA Cup final, a game which can be seen live on Sky Sports 1.

The France international has been struggling with a combination of knee and hamstring problems and he has now joined the definite absentee list for the Wembley showpiece.

A scan on Monday confirmed that the injury-plagued front man will not be fit to figure, with news of his unavailability coming on the back of captain Gary Neville being ruled out by the necessity for ankle surgery.

Ferguson has reportedly grown exasperated by Saha's injury problems this term and while his absence has come as no surprise, it will likely only heighten speculation with regards his future.

"Louis is out," said Ferguson.

"He picked up the knee injury in Milan and we did another scan on Monday to identify the problem for clearly.

"With Louis now, it is a matter of deciding what to do next. We will be making a decision next week but we are considering an operation."

[gonch19]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB:

sorry dude, steven.hall@manutd.co.uk it bounces back though

Man United Vs Urawa Red Diamonds

Pre-season.

17/07/2007. Kick-off: 12:00:00

another friendly \o/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey mart cheers, who is this steven hall character? is he fairly senior?

[James07?]

'eh? Told us what? (that we didn't know already)

[Weststandred]

Steven Hall is the Ticketing General Manager.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

'eh? Told us what? (that we didn't know already) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's extrapolating Gregg's dimness to the entire thread.

[Confused Clarity]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

'eh? Told us what? (that we didn't know already) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's extrapolating Gregg's dimness to the entire thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

eh? Because i didnt know we'd changed our new kit policy?

[gonch19]

dudes do any of you know much about law? mika around?

basically if you pay for something but dont receive it, what is it a breach of? retail law? or something..

[Confused Clarity]

Contract law.

[Confused Clarity]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract

[Confused Clarity]

could also fall into category of a tort.

[gonch19]

awesome cheers

[EmmYouEffSee]

I thought we were on a two year kit rotation thing?

Aparently not

Any idea when said new kit's comin' out?

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

could also fall into category of a tort. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a type of dessert.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EmmYouEffSee:

I thought we were on a two year kit rotation thing?

Aparently not

Any idea when said new kit's comin' out? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

we were.

we're not now.

[Confused Clarity]

That's a torte you tart.

[EmmYouEffSee]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EmmYouEffSee:

I thought we were on a two year kit rotation thing?

Aparently not

Any idea when said new kit's comin' out? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

we were.

we're not now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So are all three kits being re-done? I knew the home was only for this year, and the blue kit was goin' because it's at the end of it's cycle....but the white one? Awesome kit