SI should include the 'Out and Out' winger role in FM16

[hoddle1404]

I think there's isn't any changes to player's role in FM16 however i feel SI should include a new role of an 'out and out' winger or the traditional winger. i think a classic example would be Gareth Bale when he was playing at spurs under Harry Rednapp. The game against Inter where his dribbling down the left flank and providing crosses was a classic example of an traditional winger of the 80s and 90s. I think in the current FM we have to train a winger to have PPMs that can him play like a traditional winger instead of giving instructions. I strongly feel the inclusion of an 'out and out' winger role would useful for those who prefer the old school wing play especially in the traditional 442 formation.

[Guest]

That describes the winger role with an attack duty, especially if placed on the AM strata.

[Bababui]

That describes the winger role with an attack duty, especially if placed on the AM strata.

Very informative. There should be a sticky that tells us in plain language like ^ how to create certain types of roles. Not everyone is a FM Maourinho.

[Skw91]

Very informative. There should be a sticky that tells us in plain language like ^ how to create certain types of roles. Not everyone is a FM Maourinho.

Yep I agree, tell us everything so we don't have to think or work stuff out. Have a sticky to tell me why we concede loads of goals and don't score any.

[Guest]

Very informative. There should be a sticky that tells us in plain language like ^ how to create certain types of roles. Not everyone is a FM Maourinho.

There are already text descriptions on the tactic & player instruction screens that tell the user what behaviour to expect from each role & selected duty assignment.

Not sure what more SI can do.

[Bababui]

Yep I agree, tell us everything so we don't have to think or work stuff out. Have a sticky to tell me why we concede loads of goals and don't score any.

No one would force you to read it, would they?

[Bababui]

There are already text descriptions on the tactic & player instruction screens that tell the user what behaviour to expect from each role & selected duty assignment.

Not sure what more SI can do.

From the OP and many other confused people including myself, it would be nice to know specifically how to set up a player in the role we would like. The in-game language is vague. You wrote two sentences that clearly explained how to set up a role. Lets try to eliminate some of the unnecessary frustration surrounding the game.

[Lawlore]

I agree wholeheartedly with Bababui. There is still a disconnect between what you want to tell players to do and what your input into the game is actually telling them to do. And that's an issue with the game, not one that occurs in real life- if I want to tell someone to play as an Out and Out Winger, I'd just tell them that, and if they didn't understand, I'd explain what I wanted them to do as the OP posted. The fact that the OP thinks this role can't currently be created goes to show that there is still a fair way to go in terms of clarity of the language the game uses in relation to roles, duties, positions and other tactical instructions.

[hoddle1404]

There are already text descriptions on the tactic & player instruction screens that tell the user what behaviour to expect from each role & selected duty assignment.

Not sure what more SI can do.

If that's the case then why is there a wingback and a complete wingback role. Can't we just set assign the defend support attack to a wingback and set up his instructions. I do admit there are text descriptions which are clear enough to understand but that those descriptions don't seem to reflect on players playing according to their role. Many a times i've seen a winger attacker attacking towards goal and making my fullbacks providing crosses no matter how many times i tweak my tactics. Here is a suggestion to include a out and out winger role which clearly defines the what is an 'out and out' role for a winger which is in the similar scenario of the wingback and complete wingback.

[Lucas]

Always good to hear areas you might think could be better improved for communication but remember this is a simulation not a walkthrough. I'd recommend taking a look in the Tactics forum there's some good resources there already that provides more detail on roles than the game can if you are unfamiliar with them.

[Ackter]

I would like a Limited Winger role - ie a role that is literally about running like hell and whacking it into the box. Absolutely nothing else.

[Bababui]

Always good to hear areas you might think could be better improved for communication but remember this is a simulation not a walkthrough. I'd recommend taking a look in the Tactics forum there's some good resources there already that provides more detail on roles than the game can if you are unfamiliar with them.

Before we can simulate we must know what specifically our players are assigned to do. Also, just where should we look in T@T? Why cant there be one official place where these things are simply spelled out? I cant see how setting up our tactics like we want them would be a cheat in any way.

[Bababui]

I would like a Limited Winger role - ie a role that is literally about running like hell and whacking it into the box. Absolutely nothing else.

Not sure if this is possible but I would like my winger to be able to read the defense and if it isnt marking him sufficiently he will do this on his own. Or is this covered in creative freedom?

[Cougar2010]

I cant see how setting up our tactics like we want them would be a cheat in any way.

If you are using roles/settings that aren't available to the AI teams then it unbalances the whole game.

[Bababui]

If you are using roles/settings that aren't available to the AI teams then it unbalances the whole game.

You have it backwards. Only the AI knows exactly what the roles/settings actually do and can make in game changes that reflect this knowledge. BTW..just what roles/settings (created by SI) would be unavailable to the AI?

[Lawlore]

Always good to hear areas you might think could be better improved for communication but remember this is a simulation not a walkthrough. I'd recommend taking a look in the Tactics forum there's some good resources there already that provides more detail on roles than the game can if you are unfamiliar with them.

But there is an important difference between having a flawed tactical setup and having a tactical setup that you do not know how to implement in the game. The first is what the TTF should address- to make people improve their tactical thinking. The second means the game isn't accessible.

Think of an excellent tactic being like a beautiful ice sculpture. The game gives me a block of ice and a chainsaw. If I don't know how to use the chainsaw, it doesn't matter how good my artistic eye is for creating beautiful works of art. There's a good chance that I'll probably end up chopping my finger off and giving up the whole shebang. I like my fingers. Once I do know how to use it, sure, my first work of art might be terrible. But then I can go online, read about how to improve next time (in the Tactics Forum), and have another go at creating something.

[Lucas]

Before we can simulate we must know what specifically our players are assigned to do. Also, just where should we look in T@T? Why cant there be one official place where these things are simply spelled out? I cant see how setting up our tactics like we want them would be a cheat in any way.

The Tactics forum (see the sticky threads), manual and in-game descriptions (not to mention in-game visualisation of the match and analysis tools) are all official sources to help you to understand the roles better. They can't be simply "spelled out" in strict terms, they have to be general in a sense as tactics are open to interpretation and change depending on other settings you have set and the opposition and match in front of you as it plays out. There is no one to one relationship with what a role is, it inter-relates with your formation, tactics and instructions.

I've not suggested that setting up tactics in the way that you want would be a cheat at all, I'm explaining that this is possible.

[Cougar2010]

You have it backwards. Only the AI knows exactly what the roles/settings actually do and can make in game changes that reflect this knowledge. BTW..just what roles/settings (created by SI) would be unavailable to the AI?

Your previous posts were implying you wanted the ability to create your own roles which the AI couldn't then use.

If you are talking about the roles defined by SI that the AI do use then I have to agree with the likes of Hunt3r. Each role & duty has a description associated with it on the tactics screen which is fairly extensive + you can see it in action on the pitch.

If you want more clarity on what settings are used for each role I guess I wouldn't have a problem with it but SI really seem to be moving away from the micromanagement style we've had in the past.

[Bababui]

The Tactics forum (see the sticky threads), manual and in-game descriptions (not to mention in-game visualisation of the match and analysis tools) are all official sources to help you to understand the roles better. They can't be simply "spelled out" in strict terms, they have to be general in a sense as tactics are open to interpretation and change depending on other settings you have set and the opposition and match in front of you as it plays out. There is no one to one relationship with what a role is, it inter-relates with your formation, tactics and instructions.

I've not suggested that setting up tactics in the way that you want would be a cheat at all, I'm explaining that this is possible.

Thank you for your replies Lucas. Ill take advantage of the resources you mentioned.

[iAlwaysWin]

I think there's isn't any changes to player's role in FM16 however i feel SI should include a new role of an 'out and out' winger or the traditional winger. i think a classic example would be Gareth Bale when he was playing at spurs under Harry Rednapp. The game against Inter where his dribbling down the left flank and providing crosses was a classic example of an traditional winger of the 80s and 90s. I think in the current FM we have to train a winger to have PPMs that can him play like a traditional winger instead of giving instructions. I strongly feel the inclusion of an 'out and out' winger role would useful for those who prefer the old school wing play especially in the traditional 442 formation.

no your problem is most wingers in fm15 and the modern game itself like to play on the opposite flanks, so alot of them have cut inside, so they tend not to be so rigid when playing winger duty, often cutting inside to there perfered foot or even weaker foot without instruction, as you said if you properly train a winger then he will perform like a winger.

[Cougar2010]

no your problem is most wingers in fm15 and the modern game itself like to play on the opposite flanks, so alot of them have cut inside, so they tend not to be so rigid when playing winger duty, often cutting inside to there perfered foot or even weaker foot without instruction, as you said if you properly train a winger then he will perform like a winger.

The opposition could also be playing a role by forcing your winger inside onto his weaker foot by using the OIs.

[iAlwaysWin]

The opposition could also be playing a role by forcing your winger inside onto his weaker foot by using the OIs.

even more so for a winger with 'cut inside' to be easily contained.

[samdiatmh]

I would like a Limited Winger role - ie a role that is literally about running like hell and whacking it into the box. Absolutely nothing else.

is that a defensive winger though?

edit: not that i actually use that role (or have read that description), so correct me if i'm wrong here

CWBa are actually similar to that (all about dem crosses) but I do admit that would look a bit weird

[Ackter]

Nah, defensive winger sits high up the pitch and attempts to win the ball back themselves.

[dSquib]

There should be a What I Like To Call A True Old Fashioned Centre Half role and a Real Midfield Hard Man Who Likes To Stick It To You role.

[Bababui]

There should be a What I Like To Call A True Old Fashioned Centre Half role and a Real Midfield Hard Man Who Likes To Stick It To You role.

Call the second DeJong D and DeJong I(njure)