José Mourinho - 2002-2010

[WayneRomney]

For me, there is no manager quite like José Mourinho. I've never been a fan of the Spanish soft touch football and I have always liked managers with no playing pedigree to lean on. However, when José joined Real Madrid something changed. His fear of failing far outweighed the will to risk. His demeanor changed drastically as his high stakes clashes with Pep Guardiola intensified, as did his tactics. This post is about replicating Mourinho from Porto and all the way up to 2010 - when his transition into a Sith Lord began.

Sources, besides my own memory:

uefa.com, wikipedia, various tactical sites, torrents and youtube.

The last 4-5 years we have gotten to know the extremely defensive and calculating José. He wasn't always like this. In fact, his greatest achievement of all was done by deploying two strikers and Deco behind them, not exactly a workhorse by any means. He was very flexible in his approach, but rarely sought possession and almost always let the opposition have the initiative. During all his major finals or semi finals, only against Celtic in the 2003 UEFA Cup final did he have a marginally higher possession than the opposition, of course winning the game in the end.

Tactical Background

Reading interviews with players from his Porto days is extremely interesting. Winning the UEFA Cup and CL back-to-back with a Portuguese team is so impressive it's mind boggling. José would predict all the moves his managerial counterparts would do during the 90 minutes. He would tell the players beforehand how the game was going to end. His calculating and manipulative behavior back then was mostly for the good of the team, though, and all the players responded to it. His antics and his team's heroics at Old Trafford in 2004 is the stuff of legends.

Here are his teams for the 2004 CL final win against Monaco, the 2010 CL final team against Bayern, the 2007 FA Cup final against Man Utd and the 2010 Coppa Italia win against Roma:

For instance, Monaco had a total of 8 shots in that game, 0 on target. In the first half against Bayern, van Gaal's men had 10 shots, 1 on target. That changed in the second half, but they were in complete control of the match all along. The key was always a very solid defensive midfield and scoring goals from quick transitions.

Next post is about translating this into FM!

[WayneRomney]

The Tactic in FM

One of the best threads here is the "Art of Attacking Football" by Cleon. Until recently it was the most underrated in the Art of-series, now it's a five star thread. In it we learn that in FM terms attacking mentality doesn't really mean gung-ho, 8 men going forward. It means that you can design a tactic where a few key players have attacking duties and that the ball moves very quickly between these players. If we then add Rashidi's excellent shape theories into the mix, we can explore how to set up a defensively sound tactic that moves the ball quickly around. So my take on the mentality aspect in FM is really transitions, how risky you want to play and how fast you want to play.

I chose San Lorenzo of the Argentine Primera because I wanted to test it with a team in an evenly contested league, with the right players: solid DMs, good fullbacks and decent strikers. We also need a creative outlet in midfield, the Deco/Sneijder role. Transfer budgets disabled and holidaying between matches. I payed no attention to prep or training.

First; the diamond formation used predominantly at Porto:

You can argue that the CM(a) can be slotted in the AM position. The reason why I went like this is that I want the Sneijder role to stay deeper when out of possession, which is 60% of the time.

Then the 4-2-1-3 used often at Inter and Chelsea:

Team Shape: Normally I go with 'flexible', either because I'm not sure or I just want a 'flexible' shape. This time however we go with 'highly structured' simply because Mourinho is the embodiment of structured football. Especially at Porto and Inter, where there were only a handful of players responsible for attacking play - the rest stayed in position.

Mentality: You can easily say that Mourinho will shy away from everything else than counter. I disagree given the confines of what we have in the ME. I briefly explained my reasoning in the previous post. I want the ball to go super fast forward, especially from our CM(a) or roaming playmaker (Sneijder/Deco/Lampard). We want to be as direct as possible, without resorting to long balls hoofed from our DCs. To use an example from real life Mourinho: the first Milito goal in the final against Bayern started with a goal kick from Julio Cesar, Milito won the aerial duel with van Buyten and Sneijder put him through on goal: 1-0 and game over.

Player Instructions: Here is where we have to be diligent. We keep the TI's to a minimum in order to have a perfect shape, but we also need to replicate the play of especially the DMs. If we can say that José prefers a type of player it is mentally strong DMs. Cambiasso, Costinha, Tiago, Mikel, Muntari, Motta +++. The list is huge with players limited to defensive play. At San Lorenzo we have guys like Juan Mercier:

I put all CMs and DMs to tackle harder. Also the fullbacks. Remember that with our very deep D-line we invite the opposition into our half, we fly in tackling and win the ball back. We combine this with low closing down - we will see some nice play in our own half.

The CDs must be tinkered with a little. I set them to ease off tackles after some testing - you're experience may differ.

Player Roles:

GK: Nothing out of the ordinary. Intentionally not set to roll it out.

RFB: The Ferreira/Maicon role. Both players were transformed into fullback demigods after meeting Mourinho. We set this duty to attack.

CDs: Nothing spectacular. Can be modified.

LFB: This role I change during a game, from support to attack if needed. Nuno Valente would be high up the pitch, while Chivu was a CD until JM changed his role into a fullback.

DMs: We've covered this. Tackle harder is key here.

RPM: This is the CM who is the only player with real creative freedom. With the attacking mentality he will pass the ball from deep long, behind the enemy's d-line and such. Important attributes will be the classical #10 with mental stats.

LW: The left sided winger will be the Joe Cole/Pandev of the team. We can also experiment with an inside forward here.

RW: The Eto'o role. Easily a right footed inside forward who also must defend. His goal scoring ability is also important.

CF: Milito, in my mind one of the most underrated strikers in recent history. Poacher, complete forward, target man. Great striker who moved into channels, drifted wide, set up Eto'o and Sneijder, scored himself tons of goals. We deploy him as a DLF(s), with move into channels and roam from position. It is rather important to have a good finisher here, along with the deep lying forward attributes.

In addition to this, I set all players to restrict long shots. This will reduce the number of hopeless efforts a little, since we already have attacking mentality.

I found the most success with the 4-2-1-3 really, so I focused a little more on that as the season progressed. The 4-1-3-2 was vulnerable to certain tactics and it was difficult getting the midfield to work.

Next we can look at the analysis!

[WayneRomney]

Analysis

The back four is in line. If you change either FB to WB it won't be that compact and when defending the WB will often rush out to close down a player leaving the CDs in the lurch. Our three midfielders are lying in wait. Our RPM, Belluschi, will be the first to attempt to close down Ortiz. The other two are holding position. 9/10 times the opposition CM will now get the ball out to the right winger and he will in turn attempt a cross. Cerrutti, our Joe Cole, will close him down.

Here's another example of forcing them to shoot from out far.

What are Colman's options here really, besides going for it? In about a nano second Ortigoza will be all over him. He shoots, it goes high up into the stands.

How does it behave going forward? Well, with our attacking mentality we waste no time. The counter attacks are typically launched by the RPM, either directly up to the striker or out to the wide players first. Let's look at this example against Rosario:

[video=youtube_share;H5i9RJ6rpHQ]

https://youtu.be/H5i9RJ6rpHQ

First we lose the ball, but it is impossible for them to launch a counter as we have 3 or 4 players already at the back. Then Belluschi snaps up the ball and on one touch it goes forward to Blanco, two touches and then our makeshift Milito is through on goal. Of course, I make it sound ridiculously easy here. You need the players, especially in midfield, to make this tactic work. Do not whine about bad results if you do not have the material!

For me (and Mourinho), this is an ideal statistical game (their CCC and goal came from a penalty):

We won the game 2-1. These are interesting stats, and one that you'll see pretty much all the time. Shots/shots on target ratio of the opponent, tackles won, fouls committed etc. We have less possession of course, which is the plan. The obvious side effect of playing with attacking mentality is that the passing will suffer. I don't mind that much, we are Mourinho and extremely results oriented.

Here's another one against less glamorous Olimpo:

Another thing worth noting is the player ratings. Your DMs will look very average in the ratings system. This is because they won't make that many goal points or key passes high up the pitch. Don't worry about this, because like I said - we are result oriented to the core. We only care about the points.

League table in the end:

You will notice the clean sheets of Torrico.

The overall goal difference is impressive. 0.5 conceded is pleasing and in line with the philosophy of José.

I am very open to discussions about roles and such. This is my interpretation, but it's been ages since the days of the happy and positive José Mourinho, so some things are forgotten.

[WayneRomney]

One aspect I didn't explore a lot is the width of each formation. I left it at standard as it seemed to work, but the Diamond version could be tested a bit further with various width settings. It is very narrow as it doesn't have any wingers, where as in real life Valente and Ferreira would be the width holders up and down the flanks. It's something worth trying maybe, but I've spent two days making thread - I need a break

I will go more in depth into which player types would be ideal - but a good template is San Lorenzo of today. For the true José experience one would probably look for players with high aggression and work rate, like the Essien type player. One of José's most trusted lieutenants at Chelsea was a guy like Mikel. If anything, he is very good at positioning and reading the game. I don't think it's random that he only seemed to excel under Mourinho though.

[jukilo]

Love this. I totally agree with you. He was clearly the best until he left Inter. His Porto team was the most complete I've ever seen play. Everyone knew where to be, when to attack in a direct way, when to keep the ball, etc. Impressive. And I'm a fierce Benfica fan.

Everything seems spot on. The importance of having players who can read well the game, the directness in his football, everyone on their position. It was great to see. In the domestic games at Porto he used the most the 451 so both tactics represent well his side.

Good job mate! I might reinstall FM16 just to play in the same way as you are.

[jukilo]

BTW which torrents did you use? I've found some videos on vimeo that are gold. Specially the masterclass against Barcelona in 2010. I see this videos quite a lot tof see if I can learn a little more.

[WayneRomney]

Very nice jukilo - please leave a few words on how it works for you!

I was offered the Wolfsburg job when the season finished in Argentina, will try to continue a bit with the same setup when time allows.

[WayneRomney]

BTW which torrents did you use? I've found some videos on vimeo that are gold. Specially the masterclass against Barcelona in 2010. I see this videos quite a lot tof see if I can learn a little more.

I watched the semi final against Barcelona in 2010 and the final against Bayern. I won't link it here, pretty sure that's frowned upon.

[jukilo]

The only thing that I might add to discussion without playing some games is that the player who played on the top of the diamond (Deco/Sneijder) was more of a playmaker.

But you know better your system so if this works for you, the better. That's what matters.

Your best line is "1-0 and game over". Love this. For me this is what characterised those teams and made me fan of him.

Some questions:

- how do you approach training and young development? Mourinho trains his teams for the here and now but he clearly launched and changed the career of many players. So his training is really good;

- did you bring some players or sticked to what you have? Mourinho always bring some players after analysing his squad;

- how did you approach the media? This can have some effects on your team on FM do I'm interested on your ideas on this.

Cheers

[WayneRomney]

The only thing that I might add to discussion without playing some games is that the player who played on the top of the diamond (Deco/Sneijder) was more of a playmaker.

But you know better your system so if this works for you, the better. That's what matters.

Your best line is "1-0 and game over". Love this. For me this is what characterised those teams and made me fan of him.

Some questions:

- how do you approach training and young development? Mourinho trains his teams for the here and now but he clearly launched and changed the career of many players. So his training is really good;

- did you bring some players or sticked to what you have? Mourinho always bring some players after analysing his squad;

- how did you approach the media? This can have some effects on your team on FM do I'm interested on your ideas on this.

Cheers

Yes, I had a tough time finding the right setup in midfield. I had to compensate a little with a "runner" instead of a ball playing CM. I might go back to a playmaker with Draxler at Wolfsburg though.

- I left all training to the assistant(s). I holidayed between matches.

- Started without transfer budgets first window, so no transfers in or out. I brought up some prospects as back-ups, but they rarely played. I went for mental stats before anything else, and the young guys didn't have that.

- I attended post match pressers. The regular answers, tried to be as positive as possible.

I always handled team talks in an encouraging fashion, always calmly. I had big problems with nerves as we were leading the table most of the season, so I had to approach it gently.

[Jean0987654321]

Alright, I got some points to make

1) Jose Mourinho does not have a static system. His system changes from team to team. To even imply that he does Attacking/Very Structured and just two TIs is ridiculous. Jose played a different game everywhere he went. I would call his teams far from Very Structured.

2) I would also believe that his teams always defending in two banks of four. So drop your Eto's/Pandev's and your Duff/Robbens role back into the midfield strata.

3) Makelele is an Anchor Man. End of story. The role was invented because of him

4) Maicon is a CWB (a). He provides the width often and is seen bombing forward from the back constantly.

5) DLF?? Milito was a CF (s), IMO. He was everything and he DID everything.

6) One TI makes no sense. Close Down Much Less? While it was important for Jose to have his teams compact, he was interested in pressuring teams and blocking paths. So, Close Much More/Stay On Feet?

A bit more but I think it is a bad thing to couple every team he coached together into one. Even Sir Alex had to tweak his teams from time to time even if it was the SAME team

[jukilo]

Thanks for your answers.

I understand what you say about the midfield. I believe Mourinho would tell you the same. The most important thing will always be the team and what's best for the team. So if needed to change something for good, there's not much to say.

This could be more developed like training youngsters for the future to fit the chosen model of play, giving them the right personalities, etc. I'm thinking in a certain club in North London who would be a perfect fit for this approach. Specially teaching them how to defend properly and be more consistent...

[bowieinspace]

Alright, I got some points to make

1) Jose Mourinho does not have a static system. His system changes from team to team. To even imply that he does Attacking/Very Structured and just two TIs is ridiculous. Jose played a different game everywhere he went. I would call his teams far from Very Structured.

2) I would also believe that his teams always defending in two banks of four. So drop your Eto's/Pandev's and your Duff/Robbens role back into the midfield strata.

3) Makelele is an Anchor Man. End of story. The role was invented because of him

4) Maicon is a CWB (a). He provides the width often and is seen bombing forward from the back constantly.

5) DLF?? Milito was a CF (s), IMO. He was everything and he DID everything.

6) One TI makes no sense. Close Down Much Less? While it was important for Jose to have his teams compact, he was interested in pressuring teams and blocking paths. So, Close Much More/Stay On Feet?

A bit more but I think it is a bad thing to couple every team he coached together into one. Even Sir Alex had to tweak his teams from time to time even if it was the SAME team

Ufff... bit harsh considering the OP has a put a lot of thought, time and effort into this. I'm not sure if you're just trying to be constructive but it comes across as brash!

Lovely reading OP, I would have to say I'm no expert on Mourinho's tactics at the various teams he managed, but this is a really interesting construct you've gone for and provided some inspiration for a couple of formations I don't often expore!

[tyler16]

Ufff... bit harsh considering the OP has a put a lot of thought, time and effort into this. I'm not sure if you're just trying to be constructive but it comes across as brash!

Lovely reading OP, I would have to say I'm no expert on Mourinho's tactics at the various teams he managed, but this is a really interesting construct you've gone for and provided some inspiration for a couple of formations I don't often expore!

Co-sign this, great thread. Would love to see more analysis if you keep on at Wolfsburg.

[WayneRomney]

Alright, I got some points to make

1) Jose Mourinho does not have a static system. His system changes from team to team. To even imply that he does Attacking/Very Structured and just two TIs is ridiculous. Jose played a different game everywhere he went. I would call his teams far from Very Structured.

2) I would also believe that his teams always defending in two banks of four. So drop your Eto's/Pandev's and your Duff/Robbens role back into the midfield strata.

3) Makelele is an Anchor Man. End of story. The role was invented because of him

4) Maicon is a CWB (a). He provides the width often and is seen bombing forward from the back constantly.

5) DLF?? Milito was a CF (s), IMO. He was everything and he DID everything.

6) One TI makes no sense. Close Down Much Less? While it was important for Jose to have his teams compact, he was interested in pressuring teams and blocking paths. So, Close Much More/Stay On Feet?

A bit more but I think it is a bad thing to couple every team he coached together into one. Even Sir Alex had to tweak his teams from time to time even if it was the SAME team

I will definitely explore some more on the closing down part. But to say he closed down "much more" is a bold statement - given that the closing down happened in his own half and he wanted the shape kept as much as possible. With much less closing down, they still close down (of course), but only very deep in the pitch. Stay on feet is a good point, and one I did not tinker with from the start.

Wide players will still drop back and defend when on support duties and a deep line (see pics in post #3).

Yes, Maicon is at least a wingback. Ferreira wasn't. At San Lorenzo I had mainly Buffarini at right back, so the role was more adapted to his skills. I was really more concerned about his wide positioning than anything else, especially in defense.

For the Milito role I had to have a slightly deeper forward than the CF. I had two older strikers with low pace and one quick/weak striker. So I opted for a DLF with 'roam' and 'move into channels', and it worked nicely. Nicolas Blandi eventually become very lethal there.

And yes, it would be impossible for me to replicate JM completely with the constant changes and adapting to the opposition. I do not have enough knowledge about the game to adapt to every single tactic, every substitution etc. I took the most commonly used tactics, especially from the big games, and had a go. In addition, I think one could argue that José would use a lot of OI's in many of his big games.

[WayneRomney]

Thanks bowieinspace and tyler16.

I came in just before the winter break, Wolfsburg in 17th and the board expects a fight against relegation. I immediately lost Luiz Gustavo (huge blow) and Rodriguez to Arsenal and Real respectively (min release). Sold Dante, Bendtner and Bas Dost (unhappy/high wages). Dante is just too weird mentally to work in this system. Concentration 10 and Teamwork/Workrate in the single digits. Plus very high salary and aging. He had to go.

Brought lots of players, which is not good in January, but I had to. Romero, E Mas, Arzura, Aboubakar, Gus Cabral and Berardi. Berardi was a panic buy and I've never had him on FM before, so not sure what to expect. Combined sum of €60M. Sold for €80M.

Results have been... awkward? Not bad, not that good.

The stats show that the games are going as I'd like and we are undefeated in the domestic comps, but rife with personal errors. Gus Cabral has been a disaster, for instance - the fans have turned on him.

We are committing more fouls than I'd like, so I will take Jean0987654321's advice and tick 'stay on feet'. Also, we have a new squad and they need a little more time get to fluid.

[GunmaN1905]

There are some aspects of those formation which are hard to replicate.

Like when Zanetti was playing as DM together with Cambiasso, he'd basically go back to RB when Maicon went forward.

Also, Motta was always the first choice and when he played Zanetti was the LB, not Chivu.

He was suspended for CL finals so everyone will remember Chivu on LB.

Both DMs being so defensive isn't right. Motta was definitely a DLP. When Zanetti played as DM, Cambiasso was more offensive.

And it was never a catenaccio except for on Camp Nou.

Inter controlled like all of their games in Serie A that season.

Sneijder wasn't a roaming playmaker. He was a trequartista with a bit more closing down duties. He never left his position, he was in front of two midfielders all the time. So, AP-S.

Milito was definitely an AF, maybe CF-A.

There are just too many aspects of the real life football which can't be replicated on FM, unfortunately.

[Jean0987654321]

I will definitely explore some more on the closing down part. But to say he closed down "much more" is a bold statement - given that the closing down happened in his own half and he wanted the shape kept as much as possible. With much less closing down, they still close down (of course), but only very deep in the pitch. Stay on feet is a good point, and one I did not tinker with from the start.

Wide players will still drop back and defend when on support duties and a deep line (see pics in post #3).

Yes, Maicon is at least a wingback. Ferreira wasn't. At San Lorenzo I had mainly Buffarini at right back, so the role was more adapted to his skills. I was really more concerned about his wide positioning than anything else, especially in defense.

For the Milito role I had to have a slightly deeper forward than the CF. I had two older strikers with low pace and one quick/weak striker. So I opted for a DLF with 'roam' and 'move into channels', and it worked nicely. Nicolas Blandi eventually become very lethal there.

And yes, it would be impossible for me to replicate JM completely with the constant changes and adapting to the opposition. I do not have enough knowledge about the game to adapt to every single tactic, every substitution etc. I took the most commonly used tactics, especially from the big games, and had a go. In addition, I think one could argue that José would use a lot of OI's in many of his big games.

Yes, but if you really want to emulate Jose, two banks of four is the way to go.

And from the other part of this post, seems to be then you are not trying to emulate Jose's tactics. Instead, you are building a system inspired by it, then.

[jukilo]

José didn't played always with 2 banks of four. In Porto, 1St time at Chelsea and the first season in Inter the most used system was the 451. He always used a midfielder in front of defence and then a line of four. The diamond was the other system.

The 2 banks of four are more recent, beginning to be used on the second season at Inter.

It's almost impossible to replicate his tactics. You need to adapt it to FM and building from there. Unless you pick a specific game and even then it's hard.

[Jean0987654321]

José didn't played always with 2 banks of four. In Porto, 1St time at Chelsea and the first season in Inter the most used system was the 451. He always used a midfielder in front of defence and then a line of four. The diamond was the other system.

The 2 banks of four are more recent, beginning to be used on the second season at Inter.

It's almost impossible to replicate his tactics. You need to adapt it to FM and building from there. Unless you pick a specific game and even then it's hard.

Well, that is what I meant by two banks of four. A back four on top of a back four but an Anchor Man in between at times.

[johnnyyakuza78]

José didn't played always with 2 banks of four. In Porto, 1St time at Chelsea and the first season in Inter the most used system was the 451. He always used a midfielder in front of defence and then a line of four. The diamond was the other system.

The 2 banks of four are more recent, beginning to be used on the second season at Inter.

It's almost impossible to replicate his tactics. You need to adapt it to FM and building from there. Unless you pick a specific game and even then it's hard.

I think there has to be a little acceptance of how the game interprets your instructions and what it means rather than looking at the titles of roles or mentalities.

Having said that, Mourinho is a Cautious manager. There can be little doubt of that and it shouldn't even be up for debate. A mentality of Attacking doesn't really represent the risk level that he works at. If all your players have high mentalities like that they will be making high risk moves. Mentality would probably be a mix from Defend to Standard for me, most often somewhere in Counter.

And with that, I'd suggest looking at Cleons counter thread as well, because his 451 is pretty close to how I would set up Chelsea in particular, he first stint there any way. I think you could easily set it up correctly with a couple of TIs and nothing more.

Something like:

GK

FB - Support or attack.. either way one fb is the one to go forward the other sits back.

FB - Support

CD

CD

DMC - Anchorman

BBM / CM Attack

CM Support

LWM - Cut inside

RWM - Cut inside (maybe run wide instead, however you wanna set it up)

CF - Defensive Forward Defend.. or Complete forward support, depending on who you have in your side.

Even with mixed passing on it would be quite direct with counter mentality, the fast pace would come when you have a counter on. You could add Pass into space to make it a bit more edgy too.

Close down more when you want to push up and take hold of a game, close down less and stay on feet when you wanna park the bus.

Jose has used a variety of systems over the years, loads of formations, and has gone from quite attacking at the beginning of his career, to a cautious manager, to trying to be a bit more adventerous.. to falling back to being defensive when things go wrong. His default is counter attacking. So no matter what formation you use, the way he plays is pretty similar each time.

[EuanDewar]

any progress from anything in this thread?

[UnitedRoad]

Second this. Really enjoyed reading this. Instituted the base tactic here (and adjusted to my squad) - sitting second in the league now and was projected for mid table. Really nice pragmatic set up that achieves results.

[neonshaker]

I´m having a real problem with this. I´m playing with Southampton with more or less the same squad as you start the game with but found myself getting torn to shreds. They were very anemic going forward and with the crosses in this match engine I found that having the CB and DM foursome it would drive the play out wide which was asking for those dangerous crosses. I must admit that I´m struggling with any tactic other than a 4123 DM wide in this version and just playing tiki taka which I´m sick of now but I can´t seem to get anything working unless I have lower tempo, shorter passing and retain possession team instructions. I´d love to be able to play as the dark arts master himself but really found it difficult. Anybody else found this Mourinhoesque style seems to struggle?