FM17 and away games

[Alerion]

Hello guys,

so I am not sure whats going on. Since FM17 I cannot seem to get a decent tactic for away games, I tried everything from 4-1-2-3 to 5-3-2 to 4-4-2, each with either completly defensive TI´s, or counter tactics or just going straight out offensive when opposing weaker teams.

I tried it with different teams in different saves, big clubs and small clubs and no matter what I cant seem to get past a 30% winrate, no matter how strong my opponents are.

I did not have the problem in FM16, had my solid tactic for away games and did fairly well but right now in FM17 its just a pain to play.

 

Does anyone have the same problem or does know how to fix this ? Does someone have a solid tactic that puts me atleast around the 50% win rate in away games ? 

Lets discuss this and hopefully find a good tactic together, lets brain-storm !!

[-Ironhide-]

Yeah I have the same problem. I use a 4-4-2 home and I tried to use a 4-2-3-1 away but to no avail. I think if you play as if you are in control away you will lose on FM 2017. I think you should be defensively solid, and then look to exploit weaknesses. 4-5-1, 4-1-4-1, 4-4-1-1, idk what do you think?

[Alerion]

I think there is a fine line that I am not able to find right now. If I go with a "counter" tactic, I just concede one after another. If I go defensive and just park the bus I mostly get draws with next to no offensive chances. Obviously not losing is a good but if you draw most of your away games you won´t win aswell. 

[RTHerringbone]

I don't like the whole idea of an "away tactic".  You shouldn't need a specific tactic based on venue. It sounds like you are assuming that you do, and that will be the majority of your problem. I play the same system irrespective of venue, and will amend things in matches if I need to, not in advance because I think I have to.

[MadCatPT]

Used a 4-5-1 counter, was the underdog most games and was 3rd at home and 22nd away.

[cfcx.1]

I agree completely with RTHerringbone above, I used to always think that I MUST have a system for at home and something completely different for away. Best thing that you can do is completely forget that as it's cobblers.

I started with Villa in November they were 17th and 18 pts off of 6th. I went in as usual and set up a simple system with offence in mind mainly for home games and when favs away, and then a counter system for when I expected to struggle. We were winning one then losing one etc and away form was still terd. So I first went and looked at the formation first purely as how we are without the ball, and I settled on 4-1-4-1, then I thought about how I want the players moving on the pitch and the jobs I want them to do and I had my roles and duties set, then I realised that I can afford to press with these players and the shape but importantly I still wanted to exploit spaces quickly on the counter so I went with a attack mentality for this. Apart from a crazy 3-3 away to Newcastle defensively it's excellent and great at the other end too.

So yeah long waffle short don't get hung up on I must do this at home and then something completely different away, little things in game on before if you notice but never a complete new approach. One more little example, I use a regista with bwm and b2b and I noticed that against 442's we look better when we change the regista to dlp-d and the bwm from defend to support.

 

 

[Alerion]

Look. I did not create this thread because of theories. I tried using the same tactic as in home games, did not work. Then I tried to use the same tactic just with counter mentality, it did not work. Then I tried changing things up to a more defensive and counter-ish lineup, did not work. Its not like we always got completly rekt its more like we always lose to stupid things away. A last minute concede, not using clear cut chances. Its always the game gets harder on purpose just for the heck of away games. Feels like the game tries to manipulate certain things just to make you lose, I mean if you hammer the worst team in your league at home 7-1 once, then 3-0 againt at home, but lose 1-2 and 0-1 away with the SAME tactic and same players, something is not right. And thats not just only this one team, I had a HORRID season due to away games but I beat the best teams in the league at home.

[herne79]

You wanted to brain storm.  By default that will involve different theories and opinions to your own - and they're not even theories, they are proven working methods.  So no need for that tone when you are simply getting what you asked for.

Now, if you want specific help regarding your own tactic, that's something else.  If you do, please read the asking for help sticky at the top of this forum, and help us to help you by telling us the information needed.  Thanks.

[moolochicken]

I can certainly assure you that the difficulty of away games is going up. I have played fm 15, 16 and 17 and felt that away games are getting worse. However I managed to still win in away games.

I have only started 1 save of Overload 2440 Arsenal until April, using the same formation with only 1 tweak in mid season. That means 90 minutes of an overload tactic in every away game, including the last minutes where i never switch to contain. I have managed to get (excl. friendlies):

24 Home games, 21 win 3 draws

23 Away games, 13 wins 7 draws 3 loss (1 penalty shootout loss)

So thats 56.5% away games victories. I  have also got the injury curse for being Arsenal, so the save could have gone more smoothly. Away games are bad, but probably not as bad as you think. The fact that you are getting 30% win rate in away games can only make me conclude that your tactic does not have enough quality. Maybe it is not your fault. Maybe when you transfer your tactic from 16 to 17 you need more fine-tuning? 

I strongly suggest that when you design a tactic, always design it for away games. Always think of the tactic being in a away game. Since home game is relatively easy, if your tactic can win a away game, then it will always win a home game. From that point of view, you probably don't have to do a away tactic.

Contain or defensive would not transform a tactic into a away tactic. If you want to do work on defense you should do it altogether with roles and number of peoples in defense. I personally like to do offensive work on away games. I can clearly observe that the problem in away games lies in offense, where passes just goes wrong all the time.  I always do attacking training on away games and defensive training in home games.

Hope that would be of some help!

[Alerion]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

You wanted to brain storm.  By default that will involve different theories and opinions to your own - and they're not even theories, they are proven working methods.  So no need for that tone when you are simply getting what you asked for.

Now, if you want specific help regarding your own tactic, that's something else.  If you do, please read the asking for help sticky at the top of this forum, and help us to help you by telling us the information needed.  Thanks.

Sorry if it sounded like I am angry, english is not my first language so I might not know how to express myself in the right way. 

I do not need specific help for my tactic, I am here to discuss tactics and settings for away games as I think away games have been a lot more difficult in FM17.

 

@moolochicken Thats certainly impressive. I wonder, because I mostly play in the Austrian Premiere Division, if it has anything to do with the teams. 

For example I choose to play Salzburg the strongest team by far in this league, and sometimes get hammered in away games. I do have a save with ManC right now and defeats away are a bit rarer, even against big teams like Bayern, Arsenal etc. I do use the same tactic for both teams (ball possession and high pressing style) with a 4-4-2

[Ji-Sung Park]

I started my first FM17 save with Leverkusen and after some trials I quickly saw that the 4-2-3-1 Wide is very strong this year, both home and away. It seems that the wide players track back a little more and your 2 CMs work nicer together.

With that in mind I created a very standard setup, 'standard' and 'flexible' and adjust only player roles and duties for away matches. Only once did I change mentality, going 2-0 down away to Ajax I changed to attacking and won 3-2 in the end. I also apply more opposition instructions for away games, for instance limiting the wide players etc.

Won the BL and got to the final of the CL.

[Alerion]

I am so frustrated right now. ManC, 4-4-2 with Fullback and Wingers, Fluid - Control. Fullbacks are on support duty. Deep-Lying Playmaker and a BBM to round it out. I smashed Bayern, Dortmund, Arsenal, Tottenham and Leicester at home but just lost with the same tactic 1-0 away against Middlesborough, after a 5-1 loss against West Ham. You guessed it, away.

What am I supposed to do ? Pull out a 6-3-0-1 or what ? I even put in my Fullbacks on defend duty and stood slightly deeper but nothing helped. This gets REALLY frustrating. Its not the tactic, its not the team or players. What the hell am I doing wrong or what can I change to stop that stupid away game losses ?

[HUNT3R]

@Alerion

That's not nearly enough information to give you any good (or even accurate) answers.

If you want specific answers, provide specific information. This is what's needed: https://community.sigames.com/topic/264734-asking-for-help-please-read-this/

I am wondering about how you do against the likes of Middlesbrough and West Ham at home?

[Ji-Sung Park]

4 minutes ago, Alerion said:

What am I supposed to do ? Pull out a 6-3-0-1 or what ? I even put in my Fullbacks on defend duty and stood slightly deeper but nothing helped. This gets REALLY frustrating. Its not the tactic, its not the team or players. What the hell am I doing wrong or what can I change to stop that stupid away game losses ?

Firstly, you should chill out and remember that this is a beta. It is very early still. There will be a slight randomness.

Secondly, how do you know it is not your tactic? I am constantly questioning my tactics even when winning. There is probably tons of changes you can make to get the most out of your team.

 

[Alerion]

@HUNT3R

Against Middlesbrough (sorry for the wrong spelling the first time, new to the Premier League) I won 2-0 at home and 2-1 in overtime in the FA Cup.

Against West Ham I won 3-1 at home. I general I am pretty dominant at home, only lost 2 games at home so far and 2nd best record in the league at home.

Away I only won 2 so far which is the 18th best record in the league. Same tactic for all league games with some TI tweaks here and there, but nothing major that should influence the outcome as heavily as this.

@Ji-Sung Park 

I am, as I stated above english is not my native language so expressing my feelings correctly might come out wrong, excuse me.

Because the tactic works like a charm in home or neutral games. I score many goals and concede rarely, I have yet to get a game where I had worse stats than my opponent in terms of clear cut chances and ball possession. 

[Ji-Sung Park]

5 minutes ago, Alerion said:

I am, as I stated above english is not my native language so expressing my feelings correctly might come out wrong, excuse me.

 

No worries there Alerion. 

I still think the 4-4-2 is a difficult tactic to get consistently right on FM (since 15). I did try out a 4-4-2 with Leverkusen, but it was too unstable in the long run. Furthermore, a 4-4-2 isn't really ideal for what you are trying to achieve, with a possession oriented approach. The 4-4-2 is more brutish, IN MY OPINION.

Is there a reason you use two ball playing defenders? Also, I would lose the prevent GK short distribution since you really don't have any forward players with great work rate and aggression.

You have a fluid shape and more expressive setting in the TIs. Could be too much. I would go for a more cynical approach away.

Like others said, just go with 'standard' mentality away and feel the game out.

 

[moolochicken]

On 2016/10/26 at 02:07, Alerion said:

@moolochicken Thats certainly impressive. I wonder, because I mostly play in the Austrian Premiere Division, if it has anything to do with the teams. 

For example I choose to play Salzburg the strongest team by far in this league, and sometimes get hammered in away games. I do have a save with ManC right now and defeats away are a bit rarer, even against big teams like Bayern, Arsenal etc. I do use the same tactic for both teams (ball possession and high pressing style) with a 4-4-2

Probably choosing a good team will have the effect. But a 30% win rate in away games simply means that the team will not win the league(AT LEAST dropping 36 points for 38 matches) no matter what team you are. So as long as someone won the league, his tactic is more polished than your. How many FM 17 players will win the league? I am guessing a lot, but its only beta.

So what others and I are suggesting is, its completely possible that its not the ME that is wrong with away games, its just your tactic (which I see you accept to a certain extent). On the other hand it could be the ME that is being too unfair on away teams, but I didnt feel it with my second save on Tottenham either. Maybe FM 17 harshly punishes teams at the bottom of the table?