mikelfc8 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Pukfm - I'd just like to respectfully ask you if it is possible that some others may have insights on the subject that you do not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfmnoob Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 mate just make your club rich in the editor and pay them what they want. then you wont have a problem paying the wages Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 There seems to be a greater difference in contract requests from different agents now as well I had Monreal's agent demand a new 3 year deal and a payrise when I came to renegotiate his deal. I wasn't willing to offer more than a 2+1 year deal and I wasn't prepared to nearly double his wages, after only 2 counter offers his agent left the negotiating table. I asked him to sack his agent, he agreed, instantly taking a new agent, who was much more reasonable in his demands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I've lost count the amount of times I've discussed negotiating deals down and not just settling for the first or second comeback you get... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 10 minutes ago, Welshace said: I've lost count the amount of times I've discussed negotiating deals down and not just settling for the first or second comeback you get... I work on three attempts. If I have an offer accepted before three attempts I feel like I could have been tougher unless its something like an extension of a current deal and the player isn't asking for much more than he is currently on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Unless I'm desperate for the player, I will happily discuss the deal over a season even.. or at the very least until the end of the window when teams get slightly more elastic in their negotiations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelfc8 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Welshace said: Unless I'm desperate for the player, I will happily discuss the deal over a season even.. or at the very least until the end of the window when teams get slightly more elastic in their negotiations. Which reflects real life Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingdinho Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 As I read it, and I am simplifying here, SI seem to have had 3 options when handling transfer offers from players to the AI when the AI doesn't want to sell: 1) Reject the offer outright with no negotiation (issue: surely every player has a price) 2) Allow the AI to accept offers around or above the player value (issue: obviously ridiculous, too easy to buy any player) 3) Allow the AI to counter with a very inflated price. This option best reflects the AI not wanting to sell, but the fact that any player can be bought if you chuck enough cash at the club Is that about the sense of it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamf Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, Pingdinho said: As I read it, and I am simplifying here, SI seem to have had 3 options when handling transfer offers from players to the AI when the AI doesn't want to sell: 1) Reject the offer outright with no negotiation (issue: surely every player has a price) 2) Allow the AI to accept offers around or above the player value (issue: obviously ridiculous, too easy to buy any player) 3) Allow the AI to counter with a very inflated price. This option best reflects the AI not wanting to sell, but the fact that any player can be bought if you chuck enough cash at the club Is that about the sense of it? Pretty much... My memory of it is that clubs used to say a player was not for sale at any price end of discusion. Forum members complained that wasn't realistic. So they changed it to clubs saying "ok, if you want him then he will cost you at least 100 million." Now people complain that isn't realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottGooner Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 The only issue I have with the transfer system is this; in FM16 I was playing as Milan, noticed Inter made a bid of £4.1 million for a player(he was on my shortlist) so I made the same bid for the player but my bid was rejected and AZ wanted £11 million for him from me. The only thing I can think off is AZ and Milan have some issue IRL that I'm not aware of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, ScottGooner said: The only issue I have with the transfer system is this; in FM16 I was playing as Milan, noticed Inter made a bid of £4.1 million for a player(he was on my shortlist) so I made the same bid for the player but my bid was rejected and AZ wanted £11 million for him from me. The only thing I can think off is AZ and Milan have some issue IRL that I'm not aware of. Or you only hear half the story and that bid didn't include any add ons etc.. or they managed to negotiate down to that and obviously they'd ask for more from you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingdinho Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, ScottGooner said: The only issue I have with the transfer system is this; in FM16 I was playing as Milan, noticed Inter made a bid of £4.1 million for a player(he was on my shortlist) so I made the same bid for the player but my bid was rejected and AZ wanted £11 million for him from me. The only thing I can think off is AZ and Milan have some issue IRL that I'm not aware of. I know for sure that I have accepted an offer on one of my players then another club comes along so I chance it and try to cream them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
suncrush Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 It seems like I always play huge clubs, where my budget is largely irrelevant, or the way lower leagues, where it's $0. My transfer judo is seriously weak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottGooner Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, Welshace said: Or you only hear half the story and that bid didn't include any add ons etc.. or they managed to negotiate down to that and obviously they'd ask for more from you. I thought that too, until the transfer went through. Inter paid £3.7 up front and £400k in add ons. But as @Pingdinho said maybe they thought, lets see if we can squeeze some extra cash from Milan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigus89 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 35 minutes ago, ScottGooner said: I thought that too, until the transfer went through. Inter paid £3.7 up front and £400k in add ons. But as @Pingdinho said maybe they thought, lets see if we can squeeze some extra cash from Milan. Exactly this, this happens in real life all the time to big clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 As others have already stated, Tottenham can be a bit misleading if you are looking at existing salaries. A quick bit of research says that Spurs have the 6th highest total salary in the Prem, but they are 35m behind #5 Liverpool this season. Spurs control salaries and don't pay top salaries for the most part. But financially, they can. Whether or not you choose to is up to you as the manager. And looking at real life transfers, players from abroad do expect to be paid highly when they move to a richer league. Look at Leicester. All of their summer signings are on a pretty high wage. The Polish midfielder Kapustka is making 35k a week despite being 19 and not a starting player. Mendy is on 50k/wk and Musa on 60k/wk. If not for the new deals signed by Vardy, Mahrez, and Schmeichel, that would put those two amongst the clubs highest earners. Yet they moved from smaller leagues and aren't "star" players. Salaries escalate, especially as the money coming into the league increases. Comparing to exist players has some value, but it really depends on situation, like how recently that star player signed a new deal. Negotiating a contract is exactly that - a negotiation. The player's agent is almost always going to aim high, because why would they? If they didn't, they aren't doing their job. But its your job as the manager to decide to negotiate it down and then decide if its acceptable for your club to pay that. You always have the option of seeking an alternative. Not saying the system is perfect or can't be tweaked. But to say its broken and utterly wrong is also ignoring the financial realities of football. Its reasonable and realistic to expect a player to want both a high wage and a high squad status. It would be a rather broken system if your new 25m striker was okay accepting a rotation role and low-end money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukfm Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 12 hours ago, jeesh said: Still havent started a save, waiting for launch date. But what pukfm is describing here was one of the few real negatives of FM 2016. Of course this wont be an issue for everyone-wouldnt matter if you dont care about the details such as wages etc. I always play with Valencia, and try to replicate the clubs policies in real life. And one such policy is working with salary caps, strict wage control, and purchase of low value high performance players. In FM 2016 it was very difficult to manage the wage demand of both existing team players and potential transfer targets. Existing players would always ask for improved contract (Which you can shoot down, but still); and their demand was not a 10-20% increment, but a massive one. Cases of 19-20 year olds asking for 50K Pounds per week was not unusual. Buying was not difficult first couple of seasons, but once the regens come in, clubs start demanding unrealistic fees, these guys want lofty wages too. I raised this issue before in this forum. I was told if the club was a lot of wage budget available, players will ask for higher salary. But irl are players aware of wage budgets? I was also told you could still negotiate, use your skill to bring both wage, fee down. Possible, but in many cases not possible. And after 3-4 seasons it really takes the fun out when you cant quite sign players because of exorbitant fee and wage demand. I hope FM addresses this in this issue. To me its one of the few blemishes of the game. So good to see , that i'm not the only one that can see the transfer problems in FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukfm Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 13 hours ago, Barside said: If you want help then take up Cougar's offer to see if you're missing players who are willing to sign less costly contracts, I'm also more than happy to do the same. The alternative is to make a copy of your save available to SI via a bug report along with a list of the players who are attempting to sign but are unable to agree a contract value that you're happy with, the larger the pool of players you provide the more likely it is that the QA /Dev staff will be able to see any consistent behaviour that needs rebalancing & of course SI might be already in the process of doing that following other feedback during the Beta stage. Barside, the problem is not my save game. It's how the FM transfer system works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukfm Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 12 hours ago, Matt ex SEGA said: Flipside is that no matter what you think - sometimes there simply is an occasion where a player isn't for sale. Would Lazio turn down $80m for their defender? It's HIGHLY UNLIKELY if you're looking at first glance, obviously. But there are more factors than simple cost / wages. Are you bidding at the end of the transfer window? Will they be able to get a replacement? Do they have an idea of who that might be, or do they have to go looking? If the manager / board doesn't need to sell, and they don't feel like there's an appropriate alternative - is it going to harm their chances? If they're borderline for CL qualification and you're removing a key player - it may simply not be worth it to them unless you are going to fund the dropoff for them. The game does consider options like this, to the best of my knowledge. They were able to get a replacement. I tried to buy the dutch defender from Lazio trough 3 years, but they always wanted 80-90M for the defender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukfm Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 11 hours ago, mack4ever said: You seem to fundamentally misunderstand what the game is telling you. When a club quotes you £80m for a player they are simply making it very clear to you that they do not want to sell the player and that it will take a very high offer for you to change their mind. Obviously you should negotiate and if you do then you will be able to drive the price down quite a long way. On plenty of occasions I've signed players for prices in the £35-40m range when I was initially quoted figures of £70m or more. Also how would you know how clubs handle negotiations in real life? Are you associated with a major club? Do you have some insider knowledge that the rest of us don't? As for the wages in FM17, let's break things down and look at it from a different perspective. I'm Alfred Duncan, I'm currently earning £50k per week (I'm guessing the figure because I don't have FM17 yet) and am one of the best players in my position at Sassuolo, starting games almost every week and enjoying life. Now Tottenham have approached me, they want to sign me as a backup member of their squad. Now sure they're a bigger club but I'm happy here in Italy and I don't really want to move to a club where my playing time is going to be massively reduced. So Tottenham want to pay me roughly the same as I'm on at the moment, they want to go no higher than £60k per week. What incentive is there for me to accept that? I'm already earning £2.6m per year, the extra £520k isn't something I desperately need and it's not enough for me to uproot my entire life, move to a new country, leave behind a club that I like, all of the people I know, and go from playing every single week to barely ever getting on the pitch. Of course players are going to want some financial incentive to move massive distances to new countries unless your club offers them substantially better opportunities than they have at the moment and when you're trying to sign a key player at a good sized club to be a backup at a slightly bigger club, where exactly is the incentive for them there? Please read the whole topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukfm Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 9 hours ago, SortitoutsiVP said: Just want to add my recent experience with the system as i cannot understand why people defend the transfers in the game when there has clearly been massive problems with it for at least a couple of years now where the AI wants to buy your players for a little as possible but sell to you at at least 3x the players value. Anyway, first player i tried to sign was Callum Wilson from Bournemouth, initially i'd sold Giroud to Man City, had a value of £19.25m but they wouldn't offer anymore than £15m which i accepted even though its only 3 quarters of his in game value. Now on to Wilson, worth £29m i expected to sign him for around £45m which to me is still too much but never mind. Long story short they wanted £96m for him initially! But no surprise as thats how the game seems to work nowadays. So after some re negotiating the best i could get him for was £78m Plus they even wanted a sell on clause! Now im not saying we should be able to get players for the amount they are showing to be worth (£29m with Wilson) but surely something needs to be done to tone things down a bit as i really had hoped transfers had been fixed this year but clearly they haven't and it really does take a lot of the enjoyment away from playing the game. So nice you are posting this! He will be breaking world transfer record. Haha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urg Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Man, people try to help you and offer you advice and all you do is dismiss them. You can learn a lot about the way transfers and contracts work but apparently you'd rather not put in the effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 The irony of you telling others to read what's been written is not lost on me pukfm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukfm Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 5 hours ago, ScottGooner said: The only issue I have with the transfer system is this; in FM16 I was playing as Milan, noticed Inter made a bid of £4.1 million for a player(he was on my shortlist) so I made the same bid for the player but my bid was rejected and AZ wanted £11 million for him from me. The only thing I can think off is AZ and Milan have some issue IRL that I'm not aware of. I also often get this problem. That is another aspect of the transfer system which should be fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukfm Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 Just close my topic. I think I just have to live with the broken part of the game. Bye.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Thread closed, and if this going to be your attitude, do not open any others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt ex SEGA Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 49 minutes ago, pukfm said: They were able to get a replacement. I tried to buy the dutch defender from Lazio trough 3 years, but they always wanted 80-90M for the defender. Bluntly - there's no way you know that. You don't make their managerial / board decisions, they do - and you've already proven that you're prepared to act in a way that's unrealistic to achieve your ends. They aren't. That's what's happening here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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