Norlye Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Just started a save in FM17. Created own club in Vanarame South. Currently on a 6 game unbeaten run( 2wins-4 draws). Anyway my last match was away at league leaders Wealdstone. Thought I would lose but would be interesting to test my team & tatics against them. Then up pops my assistant manager with a whole collection of changes to tactics,mentality & players that he thought would improve our chances. It was so not what I wanted or thought was beneficial to the teams chances. I loaded the set up as he suggested, just out of curiosity, on tactical familiarity alone we went, unsurprisingly to awkward. I dutifully ignored him, set up with a few alterations, dropped a ball winner into central mid to stiffen the team as they say, but played as we have been succeeding at. We drew 2-2. They equalised with 4 minutes to go & we played really well. Now the point of this post, is there a way you can meet & explain to you staff what you want from them & maybe get them to focus a bit more or is it a mixture of their ability plus game programming means you always get the opinion but no understanding of what is starting to work & how to build on it. I know you can get rid of staff, but thats not really a way forward in the short term either, or is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 No. The advice is terrible and there's no way to improve it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, martplfc1 said: No. The advice is terrible and there's no way to improve it. indeed. disable match feed notifications and just imagine the assistant sat beside you saying "memento homo" [remember you are mortal (a man)] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Ironic, considering in FM you're immortal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eple Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 My assistant's favorite formation is a 5-2-1-2 and every week he suggest I change to that. I keep telling him that we're on top and playing 442, but he is wearing me down. If you are talking about the pre-match advice that pops up in your inbox then I would say it's rather useful to have a glance over to i.e see what mentality he suggests (if you don't use a plag-n-play tactic). But take it with a pinch of salt... if you're good at the game you know better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmiles1879 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 43 minutes ago, martplfc1 said: Ironic, considering in FM you're immortal Imagine your assistant manager sitting next to you whispering "Why wont you die" instead then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 "Why won't you die and why don't you age?! You're 101 but still look 35!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriktous Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 8 minutes ago, eple said: My assistant's favorite formation is a 5-2-1-2 and every week he suggest I change to that. I keep telling him that we're on top and playing 442, but he is wearing me down. If you are talking about the pre-match advice that pops up in your inbox then I would say it's rather useful to have a glance over to i.e see what mentality he suggests (if you don't use a plag-n-play tactic). But take it with a pinch of salt... if you're good at the game you know better. The thing is, I'm not good at the game, but I'm starting to get to a point where I am just about able to hang on and squeeze out some results. Now on comes the AssMan, sowing doubt about a tactic I'm just beginning to get some confidence in, and suggesting I change to something completely else, with which I have no experience and wouldn't know where to begin with setting it up in a balanced way (he keeps suggesting I should change to a 3-4-3). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmiles1879 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 In seriousness I listen to my AssMan's advice on training and player issues and thats about it, on tactical matters its my way, as I see it if he proposes a tactical change and it goes horribly wrong it would be me who gets the blame so he is seen but not heard on these issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eple Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 12 minutes ago, eriktous said: The thing is, I'm not good at the game, but I'm starting to get to a point where I am just about able to hang on and squeeze out some results. Now on comes the AssMan, sowing doubt about a tactic I'm just beginning to get some confidence in, and suggesting I change to something completely else, with which I have no experience and wouldn't know where to begin with setting it up in a balanced way (he keeps suggesting I should change to a 3-4-3). Sounds like you are on the right track and I would continue to ignore the assistant. It's just a bit useful to see what mentality he suggest (and ignore the part where he suggest his favorite tactic), because he will basically look at how does the game rates your team with form included and how does the game rate your opponent, and based on that he will suggest an approach to the game (counter/standard/control/etc). You don't have to listen to him of course, but it will give you a heads up on what you might expect the opposition to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugeine Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 If you're talking about the backroom advice, I'm pretty sure that's just whoever telling you his preferred style of play. It doesn't change from game to game and the explanations for why you should play that way don't change either. If you mean in game advice, that's in reaction to something happening during the game. For instance, if he says 'we need to try and retain possession' your pass completion rate is probably a bit low. If I were you, I'd ignore the first part and only use the second part as feedback, not as tactical advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 It just lacks a wider sense of context. The AI is advising what it thinks based on the exact current situation and its tactical proclivities. It'll probably advise the complete opposite at times, because at that time it believes it was the right option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffascruffowitz Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I wonder if FM will ever get to a point where your coaches advice is meaningful. It'd be amazing to be able to speak with coaches about the philosophy/playing style you're trying to install at a club and have them come on board with your ideas, tailoring their advice to match them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 31 minutes ago, puffascruffowitz said: I wonder if FM will ever get to a point where your coaches advice is meaningful. It'd be amazing to be able to speak with coaches about the philosophy/playing style you're trying to install at a club and have them come on board with your ideas, tailoring their advice to match them. Dangerous game though. The more meaningful it gets, what's really the point in playing? You can just go in and do what they say and you're golden. It can definitely be improved, but probably more how it's delivered than in accuracy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffascruffowitz Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, forameuss said: Dangerous game though. The more meaningful it gets, what's really the point in playing? You can just go in and do what they say and you're golden. It can definitely be improved, but probably more how it's delivered than in accuracy. True, but you could have the option to turn it off. And I wouldn't want or expect it to always suggest optimal tactics, but at least to be in the neighborhood of what you're trying to accomplish. For instance I'm using a 4-2-3-1 wide at the moment, the suggestion is always to play a 4-2-3-1 with 2 DM's. Really? That's their suggestion? Couldn't they at least say ok, the manager is trying to get this 4-2-3-1 wide to work. Let me offer some tweaks to that shape based on our upcoming opponent. Not constantly suggest to completely scrap my tactic no matter what our form has been like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, puffascruffowitz said: True, but you could have the option to turn it off. And I wouldn't want or expect it to always suggest optimal tactics, but at least to be in the neighborhood of what you're trying to accomplish. For instance I'm using a 4-2-3-1 wide at the moment, the suggestion is always to play a 4-2-3-1 with 2 DM's. Really? That's their suggestion? Couldn't they at least say ok, the manager is trying to get this 4-2-3-1 wide to work. Let me offer some tweaks to that shape based on our upcoming opponent. Not constantly suggest to completely scrap my tactic no matter what our form has been like. Ah, the usual "just turn it off" option. At this rate FM will have more buttons than a Pearly King's coat. Your example is simply a lack of context. The assistant looks at his own knowledge and what he can see, and says what he thinks. He's not taking into account what you're doing at all. He should, but not to the point where he's telling you the formation that will be successful. Anything before that would be fine by me - if I'm playing a formation that is patently ridiculous, I'd like him to be able to take all context into account and tell me exactly why it's ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 don't improve it ... get rid of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffascruffowitz Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 1 hour ago, forameuss said: Ah, the usual "just turn it off" option. At this rate FM will have more buttons than a Pearly King's coat. Your example is simply a lack of context. The assistant looks at his own knowledge and what he can see, and says what he thinks. He's not taking into account what you're doing at all. He should, but not to the point where he's telling you the formation that will be successful. Anything before that would be fine by me - if I'm playing a formation that is patently ridiculous, I'd like him to be able to take all context into account and tell me exactly why it's ridiculous. That's what I'm saying. I would never want him to suggest the most optimal tactic to exploit an opponent. It would be far too easy. Just to give them some context like you said at least. So as not to render their advice completely useless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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