Leicester City - Tactical Journey

[-Ironhide-]

So I've decided to start a Leicester save - I know its late - and this is kinda a Career Update thread but I'm focusing more on tactics = good results, not buy players = good results. My goal is to win the Premier League by 2026. Set the clock ticking.... now!

 

I think we've all realised (Claudio Ranieri included) that Leicester's reputation has shot up following their shock title win in the 2015-16 season. So sitting back, defending tight and hitting teams on the counter with Vardy and Musa, is no longer an option against the mid table sides. Leicester are now expected to beat the mid table sides 3 or 4 nil.

 

[-Ironhide-]

As you can see we have 4 great players and the rest are quite average. But this is not how a manager looks at his time - more detail is needed.

This means I could implement a Fluid system, as most of my players will aspire to get around the field to do other jobs. So maybe Kante wasn't needed. The squad is also very aggressive - which is also a bonus, but carelessness could lead to the red mist descending.

This means that the squad can be pushed around a lot - and maybe that needs to be improved with a signing or fitness training. (Going with the training) - The first touch is quite bad - and I'll need to look at that - and also the passing - that can be trained with Ball Control Training. Also our squad is quite short, and I'll need to maybe buy some taller defenders.

 

Two pros, we're a good team together and we have strong characters, so we won't succumb to pressure, right?

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So I set up a view for the Attributes I Need To Look At

And the correlation between Attributes, Positions and Height is usually similar; tall striker Slimani is good at jumping while short winger Musa is not. The good thing is that the lowest Teamwork rating is 10 by Mahrez, while the highest is 17 by Vardy. Mahrez is usually allowed creative freedom. And it also turns out that Passing is good where it is needed, and the same with First Touch and Strength. So not all is bad from the Team Report - lesson is Don't Trust Your Assistant's Advice All The Time!

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Next post is Tactics

[-Ironhide-]

Tactics:

A word of warning: I am not a self-proclaimed tactical genius, on the contrary, I'm quite bad at FM... so don't expect fireworks..

I've decided to start with a 4-2-2-2, or 4-4-2 attacking in FM Mobile terms.

I've gone with a Counter mentality with a Structured Team shape, because the creativity is in Mahrez and Musa. Nowhere else - just get the ball to them and let them do their thing.

These are the arrows of movement: http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=d90l

Fuchs is a WB-D, so he won't be getting up the pitch as much. Musa is a RMD-At, and so (I hope) the space left behind him will be covered by Andy King. 

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I'll now be going through all of the Team Instructions and debating whether I need them or not. I will hope to base them around my team having solid defense, narrow, and then direct to Slimani, who'll knock it down to Vardy to score. So direct football.

Team Instructions:

My verdict will go like this: Instruction: Meaning: Verdict

Tempo:

Much Higher/Higher Tempo: Will ask the team to go about their business in an urgent fashion, moving the ball about quickly and decisively, using the intensity of their approach to unsettle the opposition: Not wanted because of the first touch of some of my players, and my players' passing isn't really up to scratch either.

Much Lower/Lower Tempo: Will ask the team to go about their business in a considered and patient manner, taking their time with the ball and often retaining possesion in order to retain control of the game: Not needed because if we play slow and low tempo, we'll be tackled and we won't get the ball to Vardy/Mahrez/Musa/Slimani

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Width:

Pretty self explanatory, but since we have two attacking roles that cut inside to do their jobs, and when we defend I want to be compact, I choose Narrow.

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Defensive Line:

Deeper: Will see the defense play much closer to their own goal, retreating into a more compact shape to prevent the opposition making gains in the spaces behind them: Might be needed, but teams may play deep against us so may be dropped.

Higher: Nobody wants to see Leicester get a taste of their own medicine, not needed.

Offside Trap: Should go hand in hand with a higher d-line, which is unused, so bye-bye.

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Closing Down or Pressing:

Less: Instructs the players to adopt a patient approach, waiting for opposing teams to break them down rather than forcing the issue themselves : Might be needed, I won't choose it because playing a deeper defensive line limits the amount of pressing that can be done.

More: Would drag players out of position, and would tire them getting back... Nuff said.

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Tackling:

Get Stuck In: Basically tackle harder = more cards: We have high aggression levels already, and we don't need a 15 game ban for Vardy.

Stay on Feet: This may be required if too many cards are being brandished at the Foxes.

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Build-Up-Passing:

I may choose pump ball into box, because as Slimani exists, he can knock the ball down for Vardy to capitalise on - so will add, but can be dropped.

Directness:

Retain Possesion is now contrasting with Pump Ball Into Box, but that wasn't going to happen anyway.. Might as well leave it as it is - Mixed.

Creative Freedom:

Not needed to select anything - unless we are getting tackled too much..

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Attack: Final Third

Work Ball Into Box has been negated, but I won't really be getting the ball into the box any other way than Slimani.

Dribbling:

Run at Defence is not needed, or Dribble Less

Freedom of Movement:

Not touched

---

 

 

[johnnyyakuza78]

Should be interesting! 

I still think Leicester don't have a good enough squad to be dominating games, even in FM17, so we'll see what happens.

I will mention that a 424 isn't the ideal countering shape. Your formation is your defensive shape, therefore your wide players will stay high and leave space behind them. I think you could go with a standard 442 and add some tempo or more attacking roles to go at the mid table teams. 

[-Ironhide-]

1 minute ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

Should be interesting! 

I still think Leicester don't have a good enough squad to be dominating games, even in FM17, so we'll see what happens.

I will mention that a 424 isn't the ideal countering shape. Your formation is your defensive shape, therefore your wide players will stay high and leave space behind them. I think you could go with a standard 442 and add some tempo or more attacking roles to go at the mid table teams. 

That is a good point, johnnyyakuza78, but, shouldn't a solitary Central Midfielder on Defend with a Box-to-Box Midfielder cover the space? But that is a good point I will take your advice to create another tactic, similar to the original one.

[-Ironhide-]

This is now the adapted shape, but having Musa as a winger does contrast with his RMD-A role. However, it is fine, and both tactics will be used either side of half time during my first friendly - Columbus (A)...

EDIT: Jeffrey Schlupp will be used in that position instead..

[johnnyyakuza78]

22 minutes ago, -Ironhide- said:

That is a good point, johnnyyakuza78, but, shouldn't a solitary Central Midfielder on Defend with a Box-to-Box Midfielder cover the space? But that is a good point I will take your advice to create another tactic, similar to the original one.

Well a BBM has the roam function selected so isn't a fantastic holding role as its a bit unpredictable. Its still a lot of space to cover for one guy as your wide players won't be doing very much defending at all. 

[-Ironhide-]

10 minutes ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

Well a BBM has the roam function selected so isn't a fantastic holding role as its a bit unpredictable. Its still a lot of space to cover for one guy as your wide players won't be doing very much defending at all. 

Ok thanks for the advice

[-Ironhide-]

Columbus 2 - 0 Leicester  : Review:

I believe that it was going well until I switched from the 4-4-2 (the adapted) to the 4-2-2-2. The goals were due to bad positioning, and an own goal by captain Wes Morgan.

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Our long balls were not reaching Slimani, even after I switched his AF role to TM. We weren't putting in enough tackles either so I'm thinking of having a Ball-Winning Midfielder..

[johnnyyakuza78]

2 minutes ago, -Ironhide- said:

Columbus 2 - 0 Leicester  : Review:

I believe that it was going well until I switched from the 4-4-2 (the adapted) to the 4-2-2-2. The goals were due to bad positioning, and an own goal by captain Wes Morgan.

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Our long balls were not reaching Slimani, even after I switched his AF role to TM. We weren't putting in enough tackles either so I'm thinking of having a Ball-Winning Midfielder..

I'd ask WHY the long balls weren't reaching him, were they misplace, was he surrounded when the ball came to him.

Also, where do you want the tackles to happen. Be aware that if you want to set up a counter style then you kind of want to be trying to maintain shape, possibly a flat 4 in midfield. A BWM will likely move away from that shape and leave you exposed in the centre. 

I would think about what you actually want your tactic to do, is it a counter tactic, attacking, pressing... then set it up for that purpose.

[-Ironhide-]

Just now, johnnyyakuza78 said:

I'd ask WHY the long balls weren't reaching him, were they misplace, was he surrounded when the ball came to him.

Also, where do you want the tackles to happen. Be aware that if you want to set up a counter style then you kind of want to be trying to maintain shape, possibly a flat 4 in midfield. A BWM will likely move away from that shape and leave you exposed in the centre. 

I would think about what you actually want your tactic to do, is it a counter tactic, attacking, pressing... then set it up for that purpose.

1. I looked at the match analysis and went through the highlights again and saw that the Pump Ball Into Box instruction is being misused, as balls are going into Vardy. I'm going to remove it and have Slimani as a Target Man because that role attracts high balls anyway.

2. I want the tackles to happen by the full backs, so I instructed them to Tackle Harder. Both full-backs got booked, I think.. And I instructed Andy King to Tackle Harder, and then more tackles happened in the midfield, which led to the ball going to Slimani, Musa, Vardy and Mahrez.

3. I want my tactic to have a defence that waits for the opportunity when the attacking side make a mistake, challenge for the ball, and send it to the more attacking players.

[johnnyyakuza78]

3 minutes ago, -Ironhide- said:

 

3. I want my tactic to have a defence that waits for the opportunity when the attacking side make a mistake, challenge for the ball, and send it to the more attacking players.

I'm not quite sure what this means. Who is doing the defending in your side? Just your back 4? Where are they doing it, are they pushing up? Is your side a defensive or attacking side, is it a side that keeps its shape and hits teams on the break or does it press heavily high up the pitch.. or is it a middle ground. 

[-Ironhide-]

1 minute ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

I'm not quite sure what this means. Who is doing the defending in your side? Just your back 4? Where are they doing it, are they pushing up? Is your side a defensive or attacking side, is it a side that keeps its shape and hits teams on the break or does it press heavily high up the pitch.. or is it a middle ground. 

My back 4 and Andy King should be doing the most defending.  

I would want my team to keep shape and then hit teams on the break, but I'm not actually sure how I could do that.

[-Ironhide-]

I've signed Daniel Wass for cover in nearly all positions. He is a good player and can fill the void left by Kante (hopefully) - very versatile.

[johnnyyakuza78]

In that case I would suggest taking a look at these threads:

 

and
 

Btw my post in that thread about Leicester had them set up like this:

"

I have tried to create something like this for my Leeds side and it works quite nicely, but to do it I think you need to accept the way counter attacks happen and be aware of the way the ME works, not just looking at the name of the roles you are assigning.

With that in mind:

Fluid/ Counter. Fairly narrow. More direct.

GK - Schmeichel - GK/d

RB - Simpson - FB/s

CB - Morgan - CD/d

CB - Huth - CD/d

LB - Fuchs - FB/s

RM - Mahrez - WP/A

CM - Drinkwater - CM/d

CM - Kante - CM/s

LM - Albrighton - WM/S

ST - Okazaki - DF/d

ST - Vardy - DLF/S

I think the temptation is to look at Vardy for instance and say hes a poacher or Advanced forward, and yes that sounds right. But its a countering tactic and in reality what you want is for your team to sit together in a tight unit. Having him with a more attacking mentality would push him too far forward and you break the unit. Yes he hits people on the break but he does it with his speed. A DLF on support will still break forward when a counter is on. You can even give him more aggression by giving him an attack duty.

I'd also make sure that Mahrez is a wide playmaker because that will cause him to come inside more often, dribble more and have more freedom, hes really your one attacking midfielder.

Kante could potentially be a BWM, because hes a tackling machine, but its a counter tactic and you don't want him breaking shape too often. Support duty will allow him to go forward enough without losing too much shape. Tackle harder I think could work well for him too.

I'd avoided using limited defenders because there isn't much need, in a countering mentality defenders pass more direct anyway, and you have more direct passing on anyway so this does the job.

I also think that you can play around with roles a little bit to achieve different things. Against sides who are sitting back you can make drinkwater a support mid without losing too much defensively. Against narrow teams you can make Mahrez a winger to make sure hes not running into a wall."

[-Ironhide-]

Ok will look at and implement 

[-Ironhide-]

Orlando City 2 - 1 Leicester City : Review

After implementing some changes based on the above post, we started well, but our lead wasn't to last as in the last 10 minutes Orlando struck twice, condemning us to our second consecutive friendly loss. We started with quite a lot of possession, as they were looking to break against us, using a 5-3-2 WB formation. And Orlando Kaka was too fast for our aging back 4. 

[-Ironhide-]

Peterhead 0 - 2 Leicester : Review 

A more decent result in my opinion - flashes of Leicester's true quality are coming through. My highlight of the match was when from a break, Mahrez put Vardy through one on one - he missed, but it was still encouraging.

[-Ironhide-]

US Orleans 2 - 5 Leicester City : Review

Better attacking performance, less so with defending.

[-Ironhide-]

Leicester City 0 - 3 Paris Saint Germain: Review

A genuinely good performance, as we held the French champions until just after half time. The tactic is working very well.

[Jonny2J]

Very interested to see how you do with this one, I'll be keeping tabs on this thread.

Have a read of this one by Ozil - 

He achieved pretty much what you're aiming to do, albeit with a different formation.

[-Ironhide-]

39 minutes ago, Jonny2J said:

Very interested to see how you do with this one, I'll be keeping tabs on this thread.

Have a read of this one by Ozil - 

He achieved pretty much what you're aiming to do, albeit with a different formation.

Thank you - and I will give that thread a read!

[-Ironhide-]

Leicester City 2 - 2 AC Milan : Review 

Disappointing, but we'll take the draw. Both goals were conceded from crosses down the left... Is that a marking issue or a right back issue?

[-Ironhide-]

Community Shield: Manchester United 0 - 2 Leicester : Review

Great result! After holding them for 20 minutes, I added the Tactical Instruction Drop Deeper, and we hit them on the break twice! Ecstatic with that result..

Also Jamie Vardy is injured with a Hernia - this shows Musa can fill in for him well.

[-Ironhide-]

Pre-Season 2016-17 Review

We switched from a 4-2-2-2 to a 4-4-2, and took very effective advice. Generally the pre-season got better, and great results are sure to follow. I'll update you after every Premier League game with (hopefully) a detailed analysis.

[-Ironhide-]

Premier League - Leicester City 3 - 1 Stoke - Review and Analysis

A good result, however the goals were all from corners, apart from the Shawcross O.G. I think we're missing Vardy quite a bit, because Musa cannot fill in his shoes. We've managed 18 shots with 8 on target, contributing to our 3 goals. I think it was a good performance - although we did get our chances when I added the Go Route One TI , so that may be an option when facing mid-table teams.

Here you can see where it all goes down. Slimani is completing many of his passes as he is a very useful figure in the STC position. Danny Drinkwater is passing a lot - tackling well, but isn't having the same levels of performance. May have to look at this..

[-Ironhide-]

Premier League - Chelsea 3 - 0 Leicester - Review and Analysis

I think we did alright - to be honest - and the referee didn't really have a good game. Chelsea did pick their moments to shine, and let's be honest - every manager in the Premier League is trying to figure out how to stop Chelsea. I guess I couldn't. 

[-Ironhide-]

Premier League - Leicester 4 - 0 Crystal Palace

We were dangerous - that's all I have  to say. Our tactic is really starting to gel in with team mates. All these good results without Vardy...

[-Ironhide-]

Update: 

I've decided to update you after every 6 months instead of every Premier League game, as I can go back and analyse where things went wrong or not without slowing the momentum of playing. So next update will be on the 1st of January 2017 - the day today!

[johnnyyakuza78]

6 hours ago, -Ironhide- said:

Update: 

I've decided to update you after every 6 months instead of every Premier League game, as I can go back and analyse where things went wrong or not without slowing the momentum of playing. So next update will be on the 1st of January 2017 - the day today!

Probably a good idea, would be hard to get much out of looking at every single game like this. Better to look at trends and identify long term problems.

[-Ironhide-]

Emergency Update:

I've had a run of 4 games without a win, and I've realised that teams are starting to figure out how to stop my 4-4-2.

These are the overviews and formations of my current results. I suspect that the opposition are marking my taller striker - who I play at DLF-S, so that there is no supply to Vardy or Musa. What do you guys think?

[-Ironhide-]

Ingame: 1st of January 2017

I've trundled on with no help from that Sunderland game, and have experienced a devastating run of 2 or 3 wins in 4 months... Help is needed.. I switched tactic from 4-4-2 to 4-1-4-1, in the aim of not sitting back so much - Leicester will undergo a transformation in the summer, but first I need to ensure Premier League survival. If I am sacked, I will create a new manager to take Leicester on... if I am relegated, the challenge continues but the aim is to win the Premier League by 2026. The reason why that is a challenge is because I cannot (repeat CANNOT) deal with longetivity, and hopefully this save will bring out the hours of FM I've been craving. I've already nearly played more than FM 2016, and already won more trophies and titles (because I never won any in FM 2016  )

This isn't a rant at FM but I am finding it SO difficult. But like any resilient person - I enjoy this challenge...

It all went downhill. The small jots up were a 2-2 draw with Middlesbrough and some other good results.

We sit in 11th after 20 games, which is 3 places higher than Leicester IRL (02/01/2017, played Middlesbrough for early kickoff drew 0-0).

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Tactics and New Players will follow

 

[-Ironhide-]

We got knocked out of Europe and the EFL Cup, so the FA Cup's our only chance at more silverware, and trust me - the future is looking bleak.

Tactics:

We've completed a switch to a 4-1-4-1, which is aimed at the wingers getting the ball into the box. Our 4-4-2 has been figured out and that has lead to a run of really poor results. If anyone wants to see any particular screen, I'll be happy to post it because I really want to figure this game out.

Really, really poor results..

Transfers

We made a signing from Leeds. Enter stage left RONALDO VIERA!!!

He's 18 but does fit the philosophy of trying to strengthen the squad in the attributes that we are lacking. Passing and First Touch.

I'm also trying to sign Riccardo Meggiorini, a journeyman striker from Italy. He's good... but he'll probably be backup to Vardy once he returns from injury...

So my initial targets are to:

• Not get sacked or relegated
• Develop Viera, Chilwell and Gray to become star Premier League players, and any more potential wonderkids that come through the system
• Win the Premier League before 2026

This challenge will be hard for me because I'm not great at FM.

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Also if you're lurking please comment or reply because it's really disheartening to post and nobody replies - like talking to a wall.. so just show some support and it'll make my day...

- Ironhide

 

 

[Fosse]

I think one of your problems is the personnel you're selecting, I'm conscious that some of the team selections might be because of rotation. For example, in one of the screenies you've got two winger crossing to Musa who's what, 5'6 and strength rating of 8? 

 

Have you read the pairs and combinations guide that's stickied on the forums?

[-Ironhide-]

6 minutes ago, Fosse said:

I think one of your problems is the personnel you're selecting, I'm conscious that some of the team selections might be because of rotation. For example, in one of the screenies you've got two winger crossing to Musa who's what, 5'6 and strength rating of 8? 

 

Have you read the pairs and combinations guide that's stickied on the forums?

Not thoroughly.. thanks for the advice, but also I was instructing my players to put in Low Crosses, so I figured that since he wasn't that tall he would make up for it by reacting to the lower ball.

[Fosse]

The balance of the side isn't great regardless of who is upfront. Two wingers will look to stay wide (and not that high up on support) and cross to one striker who on a support duty won't always be in the box and midfielders who aren't going to bust a gut to be in the box so at time you're crossing to nobody. There's not a lot of variety in the team. Try a WM on attack duty as they'll offer more support to the striker as well as not being confined by always running wide and crossing, a wide midfielder will still cross but do a bit of everything so it adds more variety and ultimately more danger.

[-Ironhide-]

7 minutes ago, Fosse said:

The balance of the side isn't great regardless of who is upfront. Two wingers will look to stay wide (and not that high up on support) and cross to one striker who on a support duty won't always be in the box and midfielders who aren't going to bust a gut to be in the box so at time you're crossing to nobody. There's not a lot of variety in the team. Try a WM on attack duty as they'll offer more support to the striker as well as not being confined by always running wide and crossing, a wide midfielder will still cross but do a bit of everything so it adds more variety and ultimately more danger.

Good point.. I will give that a try

[-Ironhide-]

1st of June 2017

We've just completed a decent season with the Foxes, finishing 10th. We won the Community Shield, but we were knocked out of everything else.

We've also arrived at a new tactic, aimed at getting us higher in the table. A 4-2-3-1 Wide formation, and I will train my players with a 4-1-2-3 DM Wide as well. Possession football may have arrived at Leicester City, and two new signings will hopefully help us achieve that.

Our targets for this season is to finish 9th or higher, to establish Ben Chilwell as a Premier League left back and to morph Leicester into a possesion side.

[Fosse]

That midfield pairing is very vulnerable (verging on suicide tbh), have a proper read of this.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375632-Pairs-amp-Combinations-FM2015-UPDATED

[-Ironhide-]

Ingame: 1st January 2018

As you can see, we are in 11th, sandwiched between two other failed teams. The board were going to sack me, but after a 5-2 win over Burnley, a 1-1 draw with Hull and a 2-0 over Tottenham we're OK.

Tactic from forums has saved us:

 

[Fosse]

That seems more balanced but I'd question why you need so many team instructions. Do you want your strikers to do almost exactly the same thing?

I'd swap Drinkwater and Max Arnold around, Arnold is a better finisher and more suited to a CM A whereas Drinkwater is more rounded and a better box to box player.

Danny Simpson is about as far from a complete wing back you can get too 

[-Ironhide-]

20 minutes ago, Fosse said:

That seems more balanced but I'd question why you need so many team instructions. Do you want your strikers to do almost exactly the same thing?

I'd swap Drinkwater and Max Arnold around, Arnold is a better finisher and more suited to a CM A whereas Drinkwater is more rounded and a better box to box player.

Danny Simpson is about as far from a complete wing back you can get too 

Ok I'll swap the CMs around - this is a forum downloaded tactic so I didn't want to adjust anything..

[-Ironhide-]

13th of January 2018

I guess that's it then?

I've changed Leicester's style to one of the best possession sides in the Premier League, but unfortunately not good enough. I'll continue on in this save, and maybe start an FMCU thread... Wish me luck!

[johnnyyakuza78]

I know the temptation is to just keep changing things when it doesn't go right but I think you would have been best sticking to the 442 and making it work. 

I think a better understanding of WHY your tactic works or doesn't work is more important that swapping tactics in and out randomly. Ones you download from sites are basically worthless because they only work with certain players and situations.

you would do better making tiny adjustments to a tactic that is suited to your players. Maybe your next save will go better.

 

ps. Don't expect to get loads of replies to every post. 

[DaveRollo]

Ironhide, I very much enjoyed reading this thread, especially with the input from others as well, as to how you could tweak and change things.

good luck in your next job 

[-Ironhide-]

1 hour ago, DaveRollo said:

Ironhide, I very much enjoyed reading this thread, especially with the input from others as well, as to how you could tweak and change things.

good luck in your next job 

Thank you, it was very interesting and it has certainly helped me with FM 2017.