Is FM2017 the best ever?

[Worldclass]

Me and my friend believe that FM2017 is probably the most balanced FM game to date. The match engine could be better, but I can't think of another FM game more balanced than the current one.  Older FM games may have been more enjoyable (for some), but FM2017 (Final patch) probably has the least major bugs and most balanced match engine to date. Would you agree?

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, Worldclass said:

Me and my friend believe that FM2017 is probably the most balanced FM game to date. The match engine could be better, but I can't think of another FM game more balanced than the current one.  Older FM games may have been more enjoyable (for some), but FM2017 (Final patch) probably has the least major bugs and most balanced match engine to date. Would you agree?

personally I disagree, not keen on FM17, still playing FM16 as I prefer it, but it is all a matter of opinion.

[KingCanary]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

personally I disagree, not keen on FM17, still playing FM16 as I prefer it, but it is all a matter of opinion.

Odd as I found 16 awful- only time I've ever gone back to the previous version. 17 is a real step forward to me. 

[Tony Wright 747]

17 minutes ago, KingCanary said:

Odd as I found 16 awful- only time I've ever gone back to the previous version. 17 is a real step forward to me. 

 I know I am in the minority, but as I said It is all about personal opinion

[Roy Race 9]

Nope

[iMan]

An average addition to the FM series.

Most notably flaw being the ridiculous positions wide players take up off the ball resulting in huge gaps. 

 

 

[sedge11]

10 hours ago, Worldclass said:

Me and my friend believe that FM2017 is probably the most balanced FM game to date. The match engine could be better, but I can't think of another FM game more balanced than the current one.  Older FM games may have been more enjoyable (for some), but FM2017 (Final patch) probably has the least major bugs and most balanced match engine to date. Would you agree?

I agree, love and addicted to the game, more than I have been the previous couple of years. I never really have any problems with it, that affect playing the game like some people do.

[Bigpole]

the best ever ? I think no (12 and 15 were my favorites)

Better than 16 - a lot better.

[aditya]

FM17 is the best ever, but it is not the most enjoyable. I think its unfair on the developers since there are no difficulty settings available, it really is made for the real FM fans. As for the the hardcore FM players, this is equalivent to playing a simulation racing game where you can customize engine, brakes, tyres and in comparison, FM did a far more in depth version of the game at a larger database. Thats where I have to compliment FM, its their effort to improve players accuracy, database each version. Even though the ME is not perfect, its is not awful either. Ever since I played FM, i havent touch my other A++ titles on my steam library, theyr that good.

[qwerty22]

It's the most balanced and bug free to date, But isn't fun to play due to the weak ME and the poor AI of opposing clubs.

[samuelawachie]

People are just going ahead and saying personal subjective opinions as though they are FACT. 

Personally, I feel FM 12 and FM14 have the most balanced M.E's. Most of the problems that I read about in FM 17 didn't even exist in FM 14. I was of the opinion that they should just 'lift' the ME of 14 and merge it with the other parts of the game of FM 17. 

But bottom line is that, you ask 45 people, you'd get 45 or maybe even 90 answers. People have good saves or their team performs great, then it's a superb ME. That's the demerit of these kind of discussions. Having said that, that is no reason why the discussions shouldn't take place. Just that they are pointless. 

[Thorqemada]

 I like FM13 more - FM13 with CaC would be pretty perfect to me!

 

Atm i lost my Motivation anyway having played FM17 around 2300 hrs or so.

I played the FM13 more than 3000 hours and the FM16 also more than 3000 hrs but for FM16 i have hundreds of hours were i simply did not switch off my PC as i consider it a pretty weak part of FM.

Now my FM17 has the second Season (won the Relegation in the first Season so i did stay up) in the highest League, being on of the very weakest outifts, especially in the defense, my av.Age is 23 and my av.Wage is 240.000 Euros p/a which is around 1/9 of the av.Wage in the "Bundesliga" and i have doubled my Wage Budget from roughly 10 to 20 millions and a Transfer Budget around 10 millions but due to my low "fame" i dont get good Player, only expensive Players if i want, so i stay with loans and underrated hidden gems i get sometimes for 50k.

Have a new Stadium that is in process to be stocked up from 15k to 20k seats and put millions in both my Youth and Senior Training facilities which soon/by now are impressive.

I know that from here on ist pretty much a road upward and i lost further motivation already...

 

Usually i would not buy yearly updates but did this bcs FM16 right out sucked and i wanted to Play a CaC with a better more refined FM Version for that FM17 was good for.

Dont know yet if i buy 18 or wait for 19 or 20...

[ilkork]

Match Engine: 6/10
Tactics System: 7/10
Training System: 7/10
Financial System: 8/10
Interactions System: 5/10
Negotiations System: 6/10
Scouting System: 6/10
Staff Help: 3/10
Database: 9/10
Newgen System: 4/10
Bugs: 5/10
Help System: 2/10

EDIT: Just to clarify.
For "Staff Help", I mean how much your staff help you in-game and for "Help System" I mean how much is explained in-game for the various aspects.

[Maw74]

Nope, not for me anyway but just haven't played it enough as I'm still enjoying my FM15 save.

[vikeologist]

As I've made fairly clear recently, I think that this is the worst FM (or SI version of CM) ever, but that's just because of the competition bugs. Quite possibly from a match engine point of view, I might think that it's certainly amongst the best.

It's weird that people can have such wildly different opinions about this year's game. It's like we're a divided nation along the lines of the UK or America (which is weird because it's pretty clear that the one thing almost all of us on this forum can agree on is the left-winginess or progressiveness of our political opinions.

I'm now playing a youth save, started on the latest version, and if that was my only experience of FM, then I might think that the game was ok, (though not by any means bug-free, not even close), but that's because I'm just playing in one nation and therefore not encountering new and serious bugs every couple of seasons as one does (and did) with a journeyman save.

But it's interesting to read the above comments. At first I thought the OP was just flat out delusional, or worked for SI, but it's interesting that some people, maybe two thirds of players, have had a positive experience of the game. I think though that you don't appreciate just how widespread some of the bugs are. I oversee a journeyman challenge and it looks as though the Copa Libertadores has stopped in just about every single player's save at some point.

But as some people have said, with so many elements implicit in a judgement of this kind, any opinion is subjective.

 

[upthetoon]

i'm still enjoying my FM16. never bought 17 as i'm not interested in the '1 million new features!' aka bloatwares.. 

[RorysRocketThrow]

No version of FM will be the best for me until they sort out the clarity of the tactics creator, without the need for hundreds (thousands?) of people to come on here and other forums for more clear instructions of what each setting intrinsically does.

[Georgik]

You must be having a laugh mate ... The ME is the worst i can remember, hopefully FM18 will be an improvement as FM17 looks like a patch to FM16.

[Scrench]

In terms of features, and overall balance i think it is the best ever, however this years match engine issues made me really frustrated. The tactical side of the game definitely needs a lot of improvement, especially the defensive side of the game and the overall balance.

[GR Choke]

gets better every year

[enigmatic]

Player whinging seems to be much more convincing and less excessive in FM17. Some of the new features like the team overview screens and the inline scouting recommendations are actually pretty nice.

On the other hand I prefer FM16's match engine flaws to FM17s (i.e. overpowered but attractive-to-watch wide play is much better than it being easy to control a game by clogging the centre and inverting fullbacks). On the plus side, raw pace seems to be a little less overpowered than it was before.

 

[BallHogging]

On 06/06/2017 at 20:24, iMan said:

An average addition to the FM series.

Most notably flaw being the ridiculous positions wide players take up off the ball resulting in huge gaps. 

 

 

So they fixed what I considered to be a problem in FM15? (which I'm still playing)

I've been bemoaning how narrow my supposed wide players sit when the ball gets in and around the final third. Especially full backs. I want them to stay wide on the touchline. But I haven't found a way to force them to using the range of instructions, without possibly affecting how the rest of the team plays overall.

[BallHogging]

On 10/06/2017 at 05:41, qwerty22 said:

It's the most balanced and bug free to date, But isn't fun to play due to the weak ME and the poor AI of opposing clubs.

Has the ME/AI improved much since FM15?

I ask because I felt the AI on 15 was lacking in respect to the way in which almost every team so notably changed their tactic at half time, usually regardless of how the game was going.

Flesh this out a bit and teams didn't seem to change at points in a game when most would expect a change. Like a 451 team not chasing the game. I could feel the mentality changing perhaps, but nothing with formation. 

[Chris22]

For me FM15 is the best i never bought 16 or 17

[BallHogging]

On 11/06/2017 at 04:54, vikeologist said:

....the one thing almost all of us on this forum can agree on is the left-winginess or progressiveness of our political opinions.

 

Sounds quite a broad statement, but then I'm not here often and haven't seen much discussion on it.

However if it is true...then I'd have a stab as to why that is....

But I'm not going to be talking about politics when we all have such a lovely common ground as it is: life ruining addiction to a managing a database 

[LloydCortes]

Cool!

[westy8chimp]

Decent ME - but not as fun as some of the older FMs or indeed CMs. Brexit and Social feed have wrecked it for me.

And something intangible ... like I feel things are more calculated [as in right and wrong way to approach each aspect] than ever, OR something's are having more impact than previously [such as team talk, form, morale]... even though im sure they aren't.

[Svenc]

5 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

And something intangible ... like I feel things are more calculated [as in right and wrong way to approach each aspect] than ever, OR something's are having more impact than previously [such as team talk, form, morale]... even though im sure they aren't.

And they likely aren't. Not to drag this OT, but I think that feeling may only increase alongside how they improve AI manager decisions all by itself (that is unless one day they stop this). It's not long ago that you occasionally faced AI playing Kroos as the main defensive guy, regularly had them with no proper holding players in generally gifting you attacks (and a few goals) on a break. Factor in weaker squad building , less pronounced in-mach management, and the margin for error becomes slightly smaller by the iteration. See also recently Rashidi arguing that in public beta a few years ago already defending was toned down as a majority of players found it too hard to score/win. Aside of a few revamps in particular as for the Tactics modules, I still maintain that the key in balancing is in the assistants... as brought up in prior discussions, viably so, the game assumes you to have a bit of basic knowledge (you got that management job in the first place), which is where the assistant could plug some of that gap between you and the AI out of the box (in particular as the AI assistants itself can do decently anyway if you delegate all).

Maybe by implementing an optionally "coaching course", acting as a separate optionally tutorial complete with final tests and and online ranking of points, supplemented by a few videos as to how to recognize key in-game events. They key is in not making this feel like a chore/busy work, and thus can only go into the basics, and still leave room for bad decisions (in fact, the other side of the argument throughout was that players who don't have a clue should be heavily burnt, at the end this comes down to which target group you aim at). Seeing the random Workshop stuff this could already go a long way, and going back to those no holding player AI, it's surprising that you can find players with hundreds of hours across the iterations that still haven't gotten that particular simple message. Same as  (and this is an UI issue not making this explicit enough) how many long-term players don't actually know what putting guys on auto duty actually de facto implies. Or that fielding a Target Man wouldn't be just selecting a role, but has implications as for the passing patterns. Etc. etc. Sorry for having dragged this OT regardless.

[BallHogging]

3 hours ago, Svenc said:

Or that fielding a Target Man wouldn't be just selecting a role, but has implications as for the passing patterns. Etc. etc. Sorry for having dragged this OT regardless.

Hah yeh, this old chestnut!

I remember the first time I tried the target man 'role'. And I put the supposed quotes around role because I realised it changes the whole tactic!

At the time I tried it I was pulling off my best Louis Van Gaal impression. Contain > play even safer > short passing > retain possession > play out of defence > work ball into box > take a breather > + all individual instructions set to pass short and less risky.

 

Cue change of striker role.

Sam Allardyce of Bolton era turns up.

Players passed short again never.

[qwerty22]

15 hours ago, BallHogging said:

Has the ME/AI improved much since FM15?

I ask because I felt the AI on 15 was lacking in respect to the way in which almost every team so notably changed their tactic at half time, usually regardless of how the game was going.

Flesh this out a bit and teams didn't seem to change at points in a game when most would expect a change. Like a 451 team not chasing the game. I could feel the mentality changing perhaps, but nothing with formation. 

The AI has improved in dealing with the game situation and you get to see changes in formation and roles.

 

The problem is that its a lifeless and rigid representation of football, Perhaps to keep the bugs under control, But I feel that there are limited sequences happening regardless of the quality of the players or the division standard. No variation and no WOW factor that we had in the older games where a striker would do something sensational. Still see the "he didn't mean it" cross shot highlight. Cricket scores and Cross-fests are gone this year thankgod.

 

Have a Look at the ME highlights from you tubers and judge for yourself, I think it's just a patching up of FM 2015

[HUNT3R]

10 hours ago, qwerty22 said:

The AI has improved in dealing with the game situation and you get to see changes in formation and roles.

 

The problem is that its a lifeless and rigid representation of football, Perhaps to keep the bugs under control, But I feel that there are limited sequences happening regardless of the quality of the players or the division standard. No variation and no WOW factor that we had in the older games where a striker would do something sensational. Still see the "he didn't mean it" cross shot highlight. Cricket scores and Cross-fests are gone this year thankgod.

 

Have a Look at the ME highlights from you tubers and judge for yourself, I think it's just a patching up of FM 2015

I find it hard to believe that you don't ever see anyone doing anything special.

[Saundersauras]

I agree, couldn't really get into the last few versions of FM, not since FM13, but now I find myself enjoying it again!

It could be cause I've got for a challenge to make TNS in Wales a European Powerhouse, rather than going to the big nations and trying to keep the average age of the squad below 24.

[Smurf]

I think I'll buy myself a nice new computer next year and buy the latest iteration. 

I am still playing FM12 and quite enjoy it. I don't get bored with it at all but at times I feel I am missing out. 

Maybe a new computer with the latest version would get me through another 7 years of FM! 

Would love to see it go to a subscription model. Maybe paying £4 a month (if the game is £50 retail then that covers the costs over 12 months). You of course would need to keep paying to play - and if you miss a month you can go back into it again. 

Alternatively a yearly subscription of perhaps £45 a year for the latest versions of the game, just have to keep your account current to avail of it. I think it would be a great opportunity to give subscription people a few goodies via Steam as a reward for being subscription players.

 

And I wouldn't dream of getting rid of the outright 1 version for £50 still an option - it would have to be still an option, of course.

 

 

[BallHogging]

16 hours ago, qwerty22 said:

The AI has improved in dealing with the game situation and you get to see changes in formation and roles.

 

The problem is that its a lifeless and rigid representation of football, Perhaps to keep the bugs under control, But I feel that there are limited sequences happening regardless of the quality of the players or the division standard. No variation and no WOW factor that we had in the older games where a striker would do something sensational. Still see the "he didn't mean it" cross shot highlight. Cricket scores and Cross-fests are gone this year thankgod.

 

Have a Look at the ME highlights from you tubers and judge for yourself, I think it's just a patching up of FM 2015

Cheers for the reply.

Yeh I might do that, have a look at the ME on Youtube. Cricket scores and cross fests lol, for sure. Those early crosses from the opposition where one striker beats 3 CB's... oooh 7 times out of 10 is my estimate. 

But I second your thoughts about the overriding feeling of there being limited sequences. I really think first touch, composure, decisions, team work etc have a real impact for sure. But as for defined differences in leagues and so on I'm somewhat in agreement with you.

I tried the 16 demo and started to build a decent team with Arsenal. I liked it but not enough to buy. I felt some ME complaints were fixed, but I didn't like the changed tactical interface. So if 17 is 15 improved in some respects, then I may take the plunge.

[BallHogging]

6 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

I find it hard to believe that you don't ever see anyone doing anything special.

It's usually the opposition

[BallHogging]

6 hours ago, Smurf said:

I think I'll buy myself a nice new computer next year and buy the latest iteration. 

I am still playing FM12 and quite enjoy it. I don't get bored with it at all but at times I feel I am missing out. 

Maybe a new computer with the latest version would get me through another 7 years of FM! 

Would love to see it go to a subscription model. Maybe paying £4 a month (if the game is £50 retail then that covers the costs over 12 months). You of course would need to keep paying to play - and if you miss a month you can go back into it again. 

Alternatively a yearly subscription of perhaps £45 a year for the latest versions of the game, just have to keep your account current to avail of it. I think it would be a great opportunity to give subscription people a few goodies via Steam as a reward for being subscription players.

 

And I wouldn't dream of getting rid of the outright 1 version for £50 still an option - it would have to be still an option, of course.

 

 

Yeh it would be interesting to see how that method might work. Would be good regular cash flow for si.

[ilkork]

1 hour ago, BallHogging said:

Yeh it would be interesting to see how that method might work. Would be good regular cash flow for si.

I really love the mastermind who is behind all this at SI headquarters. So genius.

-He/She (I don't know to whom am I referring to) created a forum where most staff are working for free and they have to deal with annoying people like me almost every day.
-He/She has the researchers who do one of the most important jobs and most of them are working for free.
-His/Her way made people like @Smurf for example (2-3 post above) or the guy with the "Dear Sports Interactive and Sega" make videos or suggestions on "how you can generate more money SI".

[Smurf]

These business models are already in place. I'm a graphic designer by trade, and Adobe moved to a subscription model years ago, and it's proved to be very successful.

Plus - a lot of kids/parents cannot afford to spend £50 on a new game. However, if there was a small monthly fee it might be more manageable for people. 

 

At the moment I'd imagine a lot of sales are made in early November when the game is released, and it dulls down until Christmas, and probably a sales surge in end Feb/start March when the final patch is released. Then possibly little revenue until further down the line.

 

With a subscription model there would be a steady stream of cash flow regularly. 

 

 

I see PES will have Usain Bolt in it for early purchasers - which is a nice incentive. 

 

I suppose with those on subscription models you could have fun incentives too.

[m_fenton]

I wouldn't buy it on subscription, personally.

And who is pending £50 on FM? In the UK at least, you could get it for far less than that at release, never mind Steam sales etc.

[Smurf]

I never said it was exactly £50, I said originally, "if the game is £50" then "x amount" would cover it. Based on simple maths. 

Anyway - on Steam it's €54.99 - at the moment. 

 

Would you buy it on subscription for £2.50 a month? That would £30 a year. Plus you would get a few additional extras that others not on subscription wouldn't get. 

Perhaps the in-game editor for free. 

Perhaps the patches are released early for subscribers, and released a week or two later for non-subscribers (I'm not talking beta testing here)

Perhaps you get a discount on FM Touch 

 

I'm not sure of all the things that could be possible - but there are options - like PSE putting Usain Bolt in to the game for early buyers. 

 

[m_fenton]

Tthose "benefits" of subscribing are not benefits at all, they are just things that would be taken out of the base game. You're not rewarding people for subscribing, you're punishing them for not subscribing.

Personally, the whole idea of paying an ongoing amount for games like FM puts me right off it. Subscription makes sense in certain games where additional levels etc are being continuously created and added to the game (many MMOs for example). That doesn't apply to FM though - you buy a version of the game that does not change (bar minor transfer updates).

It would also presumably bring with it other issues, like having to be online during play (or at least during start up) to check the subscription is up to date. It just seems to me that the subscription idea is trying to fix a problem which doesn't exist.

[Smurf]

Nothing would be taken from the base game. 

Where did I say to dumb down the base game? 

Of course, at the moment you don't have to be online to play FM - and I didn't think of that for the subscription model. But it would suit some people, not all, and it would give a continuous stream of revenue, rather than spurts. 

Probably not a good idea for the moment then - as I know a lot of people don't have access to internet while playing FM. 

 

But hey - this is why I don't work for SI

[Thorqemada]

This Kind of game works in its current Iteration as buy once pay once only.

If they would manage to create motivating multiplayer content they could then charge 3 to 5 $ a month for maintaining infrastructure etc. but that would need to be something fleshed out and not half assed bcs that would alienate customers and lead to a loss of playerbase.

[craigd84]

26 minutes ago, Thorqemada said:

This Kind of game works in its current Iteration as buy once pay once only.

If they would manage to create motivating multiplayer content they could then charge 3 to 5 $ a month for maintaining infrastructure etc. but that would need to be something fleshed out and not half assed bcs that would alienate customers and lead to a loss of playerbase.

Didn't they attempt that with FM Live?

[m_fenton]

4 hours ago, Smurf said:

Nothing would be taken from the base game. 

Where did I say to dumb down the base game? 

Of course, at the moment you don't have to be online to play FM - and I didn't think of that for the subscription model. But it would suit some people, not all, and it would give a continuous stream of revenue, rather than spurts. 

Probably not a good idea for the moment then - as I know a lot of people don't have access to internet while playing FM. 

 

But hey - this is why I don't work for SI

Well, the patches for a start. Why should they be withheld from paying customers?

[Smurf]

Maybe not such a good idea in hindsight. 

 

[Thorqemada]

8 hours ago, craigd84 said:

Didn't they attempt that with FM Live?

FML played in a way that made to many Players feel like/be losers which is the sure end to any online game...

When i joined FML i never made it to the top leagues bcs of Player loss the leagues were shut down after 2 or 3 Seasons and i had to start anew in another one which was quite frustrating on its own...

Its a Problem to any PvP game and especially a Football Manager and most Soccer Manager Browser Games only work bcs they be Free to Play and People remember that one win more than the 10 losses or be Farm Teams from Multiaccounters or Groups of Friends that exloit the game mechanics b4 they become abandoned and Ai-Controlled.

So you need to find a way that make Players either feel like/be winners or that can be exploited for more success in the offline product for example and the truth is pay to win works best if it is camouflaged well!

[Thorqemada]

I have looked a bit into the past, sales figures, ratings etc.  and it seems FM13/14 were the best received parts of the series and FM13 probably had the most high sales figures.

What baffles me is that FM16 gets better ratings than FM17 but then the development may not be percived as that big maybe so People vote FM17 down in displeasure for that.

But at all history meets pretty well my feelings that FM13 (as i dont know FM14) was the height of the series as far as i am concerned.

 

Germany is historically a big market for Football Manager games but as EA holds the licence rights it cant be sold officially here it is pretty much unknown outside of the nerd base for lack of promotion (FML also was pretty much never promoted anywhere)

In the age of the EU though they can not forbid you to buy it physically or digitally in Austria (Swiss works too ihmo even ist not really EU) or other EU Countrys or Worldwide Onlinshops so you can own yourself a official working steam Version of the game.

I switched to digitally downloading since years bcs modern box games dont offer the value old games had with high quality handbooks, background Infos and other high value box content boxes back in the late 80s and most of the 90s had offered.

 

In the end FM is the last of its Kind with no serious competition so it should still run for a while even if it would starts to become underdeveloped...maybe they can reach out to new markets...

 

[ianscousemac]

Defo for me.  The ME and UI is so much better.

[Sourav B]

On 10/06/2017 at 10:11, qwerty22 said:

It's the most balanced and bug free to date, But isn't fun to play due to the weak ME and the poor AI of opposing clubs.

Mainly the last point but I think fm17 evolved a lot in the gfx and the animation part from the the fm16, but as always not perfect, bad bald headed regens are really annoying to see, but still the animations are much better than the previous one as well as the latest one, when a player accelerates in fm18 it feels gravity is working like a rope tethered to him and in constantly pulling him towards the direction which is so annoying to see and some shots animation are bad, so I think rather than the ME, I am still enjoying a lot in fm17 with some extra patches you can get really good pitch textures and the sunlight reflecting in the turfs are wonderful along with flurry and rainy match-days, with simple and usable screens which is really really messed up in the fm18, cz the ui is awful tbh which is simple and more than usable in fm17, I think they have to improve in many areas in the future iterations at least in the gfx portion.