pukfm Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 What kind of personality will decide to move from the most reputed club (Barcelona) and probably the best league (spanish) in the world, to a lower reputed club (PSG) and the 5-6th best league (france) in the world ?? A personality who loves MONEY more than anything !! A personality like Neymar's! If i'm not wrong there is 36 different personalities in FM ?? Which one of the personalities is a greedy / money loving one ? I will not discuss Neymars transfer decision in real life - just answer my question please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Something linked to low loyalty and high controversy probably. But then I don't think FM coding covers the "hey here's 300m, use 200m of it to buy out your contract, keep the rest and the club we own will then sign you on a free transfer to get round FFP" scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Not sure I buy the argument that PSG is a massive step down, but I have always wondered what (if any) FM personality attribute combination makes top players particularly disposed towards moving to genuinely rubbish leagues like China or the UAE in mid career. Low ambition? But wanting lots and lots of money is an ambition of sorts... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 10 hours ago, pukfm said: A personality who loves MONEY more than anything !! A personality like Neymar's! Which one of the personalities is a greedy / money loving one ? 10 hours ago, pukfm said: I will not discuss Neymars transfer decision in real life The game rightly hasn't gone full mental yet, it's not going to cover cases like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ji-Sung Park Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I have had one PSG save in my life, on FM17 as it happens, and I signed Neymar first week in. So you can look at Neymar and his personality in game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortune66 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Isnt it ironic that you complain about a transfer that in fact is just what is happening right now IRL, i.e. Neymar to PSG? Edit: I do think it´s a clear indication on how well programmed the game is when it reflects on the spot transfers. But then again, throw a coin in the air enough times and you´re bound to get 10 heads in a row eventually. But still. Nice to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinook2000 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 How rigorously does FM 17 enforce FFP in European Comps? I believe this deal would take PSG over Uefa's real life FFP but they don't bother enforcing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 16 hours ago, pukfm said: What kind of personality will decide to move from the most reputed club (Barcelona) and probably the best league (spanish) in the world, to a lower reputed club (PSG) and the 5-6th best league (france) in the world ?? A personality who loves MONEY more than anything !! A personality like Neymar's! If i'm not wrong there is 36 different personalities in FM ?? Which one of the personalities is a greedy / money loving one ? I will not discuss Neymars transfer decision in real life - just answer my question please The claim that Neymar loves money more than anything says a lot about cynicism. Not Neymar's cynicism, though, but yours. In the game, a personality like this would probably have high ambition, high controversy and low loyalty. Low professionalism might also enter into it. (High ambition only enters into this if loyalty is low.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Chinook2000 said: How rigorously does FM 17 enforce FFP in European Comps? I believe this deal would take PSG over Uefa's real life FFP but they don't bother enforcing it. FM FFP is much stricter & lacks the depth of real life finances & penalties Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I wouldn't say he's greedy - he's already a millionaire many times over from his career at Barcelona. He'll never be Messi though - he'll never have the status he has with fans. But he could have that at PSG - he could make them great and put them on the map. I don't think his move is financially motivated, however, it's definitely something he can command no matter what club he goes to. Any other club in the World could meet his buy-out clause and offer him similar wages - but nobody else is willing to - it seems. Remember Maradona did it when he moved from Barcelona to lesser known Napoli. Admittedly Maradona left on less than impressive terms - in a mass brawl in the Copa Del REy final. I just think Neymar wants to be top dog at a club - and he will never ever replace an irreplaceable player like Messi as the club icon. He will get that at PSG though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinook2000 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Smurf said: I wouldn't say he's greedy - he's already a millionaire many times over from his career at Barcelona. He'll never be Messi though - he'll never have the status he has with fans. But he could have that at PSG - he could make them great and put them on the map. I don't think his move is financially motivated, however, it's definitely something he can command no matter what club he goes to. Any other club in the World could meet his buy-out clause and offer him similar wages - but nobody else is willing to - it seems. Remember Maradona did it when he moved from Barcelona to lesser known Napoli. Admittedly Maradona left on less than impressive terms - in a mass brawl in the Copa Del REy final. I just think Neymar wants to be top dog at a club - and he will never ever replace an irreplaceable player like Messi as the club icon. He will get that at PSG though. On his own part it might be to be the No 1 at a Club while in his prime years. But his agent and Father are certainly seeing £££££££££££££££ signs. Total outlay is reputed to be £450,000,000. How many shirts will that count for. Ligue 1 will see ever bigger TV deals, they may see an increase in prize money from CL Semi-finalists to Finalists. This is a statement signing by PSG saying ''we can & will buy anyone we want'' ''Just name the price'' I don't know why anyone is getting upset about the fee (Perhaps Barca fans) it cost them nothing does it? Are PSG fans complaining? If tickets were increased 1,000% I'd understand. But transfers of this size are almost exclusively backed by the Sheiks, TV and Commercial income. The money gets recycled, Barca pass a % to Liverpool for Coutinho, Liverpool pass there's too Swansea/Everton. The only gripe is the agents fee yet if it wasn't for the agents then the transfer fee or sale wouldn't happen. Maradona left Barca to what was the strongest league in the world think the EPL in the mid-late 00's but a bigger gap & larger number of title contenders and an Italian lifestyle, Footballs never been as glamorous. Serie A bought the best players in the world even if they played for Barca, Real, Bayern, Liverpool or United. Maradona, Batistuta, Van Basten, Gullit, Ronaldo, Figo, Weah, Klinsmann. Were added to a strong Italian contingent. And all for free on CH4 in the 90's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Every player I try to sign is a greedy git! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesington Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 23 hours ago, Smurf said: I wouldn't say he's greedy - he's already a millionaire many times over from his career at Barcelona. He'll never be Messi though - he'll never have the status he has with fans. But he could have that at PSG - he could make them great and put them on the map. I don't think his move is financially motivated, however, it's definitely something he can command no matter what club he goes to. Any other club in the World could meet his buy-out clause and offer him similar wages - but nobody else is willing to - it seems. Remember Maradona did it when he moved from Barcelona to lesser known Napoli. Admittedly Maradona left on less than impressive terms - in a mass brawl in the Copa Del REy final. I just think Neymar wants to be top dog at a club - and he will never ever replace an irreplaceable player like Messi as the club icon. He will get that at PSG though. Totally agree with this. After Neymar won the champions league game againt PSG last year the front cover of the paper had a picture of Messi, who had a poor game by his standards. I think this move makes sense for neymar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvielis Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I really don't understand why you call him greedy? It's his job after all! Are you saying that you won't switch your current employer if the other employer would offer you almost two times bigger salary then your current one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, dvielis said: I really don't understand why you call him greedy? It's his job after all! Are you saying that you won't switch your current employer if the other employer would offer you almost two times bigger salary then your current one? But that would be the definition of greedy - moving from a perfectly good employer to another one for more money. Yes, money is a factor and it's nice to get it. But if Neymar got those wages at Barcelona then at least 3 other players would demand the same. His main motivation is to be the star at a club and become the club legend - even if he says it's not. But if he goes on to win 10 league titles and 5 champions leagues with PSG he will be immortalised at the club. He could have done that at Barca - but it's Messi who gets the statute and a stand named after him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 There is a thread in the Football Forum already open that's discussing Neymar's real life transfer https://community.sigames.com/forum/16-football-forum/. This forum's for Football Manager stuff . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 We are talking about football manager - and how personalites can shape a transfer to other clubs - like a motivation for a new challenge. How will SI integrate this sort of behaviour and pricing into FM? What are the traits that need to be adapted and changed to capture this new emerging transfer market? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Smurf said: We are talking about football manager - and how personalites can shape a transfer to other clubs - like a motivation for a new challenge. How will SI integrate this sort of behaviour and pricing into FM? What are the traits that need to be adapted and changed to capture this new emerging transfer market? Very simply they already do. As I said, every player I sign is greedy. They are on 3m per annum and I have to pay 7m, if a bigger club comes sniffing a year later they either put in a transfer request... or demand a pay rise from me. Basic functionality of the transfer engine. Not sure what you expect to suddenly start happening differently? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvielis Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Smurf said: But that would be the definition of greedy - moving from a perfectly good employer to another one for more money. Are you saying that you won't switch your current employer if the other employer would offer you almost two times bigger salary then your current one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, dvielis said: Are you saying that you won't switch your current employer if the other employer would offer you almost two times bigger salary then your current one? To be honest, I'd play for Barca forever, no amount of money would change my mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Smurf said: We are talking about football manager - and how personalites can shape a transfer to other clubs - like a motivation for a new challenge. How will SI integrate this sort of behaviour and pricing into FM? What are the traits that need to be adapted and changed to capture this new emerging transfer market? Its a one off transfer so far, so nothing to integrate. One example doesn't make a new emerging market. As for Neymar to make the move: high ambition, relatively low loyalty, open to playing in Ligue 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigd84 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Smurf said: To be honest, I'd play for Barca forever, no amount of money would change my mind. See im this way about Liverpool! 10k a week for the rest of my life no questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvielis Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Smurf said: To be honest, I'd play for Barca forever, no amount of money would change my mind. That question wasn't about football, but for your real life employer, because, let's be honest, you would pay out of your own pocket just for an opportunity to play for Barcelona, so that is only a fantasy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, Smurf said: We are talking about football manager Not everyone . But anyway, according to the man himself the move isn't motivated by money and greed. It's for a new challenge. So how does that manifest itself in FM? Loyalty? Professionalism? Controversy? Reputation also can't be ignored I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Yeh but I'm not a multimillionaire working for one of the best companies on the planet, am I? The question has no relevance. I think it is a new emerging market - 100m for Pogba - supposedly 120m for Keita - 100m Coutinho - potential 222m deals in the future - there could in theory be a 300m transfer out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Smurf said: Yeh but I'm not a multimillionaire working for one of the best companies on the planet, am I? The question has no relevance. I think it is a new emerging market - 100m for Pogba - supposedly 120m for Keita - 100m Coutinho - potential 222m deals in the future - there could in theory be a 300m transfer out there. It wasnt 100m for Pogba (who wasn't that much more expensive than the previous holder Bale - £85m to Pogba's £89m) and the other transfers haven't happened yet. You can't model a trend that hasn't occured yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 €100m - sorry i didn't post currency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 23 minutes ago, Smurf said: 100m for Pogba - supposedly 120m for Keita - 100m Coutinho - potential 222m deals in the future - there could in theory be a 300m transfer out there. In my Paris save I had to pay these kind of fees anyway. Pogba 120m, Dybala 180m, Alli 180m, Isaak 65m when he was 18 and in Dortmund II !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, Smurf said: €100m - sorry i didn't post currency. No worries, makes much more sense. But as Westy says, this kind of current inflation is well modelled already. Neymar's transfer is unique rather than a trend, as I suspect Mpabbe's will be, though Mbappe'd potential move would be more "traditional" than Neymar's. Ultimately i think we will have to wait a season or two first and see if there is a ripple effect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I charted the top 10 transfers in the since 2001 - and it's true - it's quite even up to Neymar - to be fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 2 hours ago, herne79 said: But anyway, according to the man himself the move isn't motivated by money and greed. It's for a new challenge. So how does that manifest itself in FM? Loyalty? Professionalism? Controversy? Reputation also can't be ignored I think. Media handling style: "highly professional". It's not about "greed" [at least, by official accounts, leaking numbers oft show a different picture of football business on this level], it's about taking decent job opportunities same as in any other profession, and who wouldn't appreciate the raise atop of it? How it's communicated isn't exclusive to Neymar though. Any such statement that money played no part typically makes a mockery of any listener's intelligence, but then most football fans would rather believe in Santa even if they know deep inside that he doesn't really exist. I think the game has a tough job in modelling it all though not only due to the lack of transparency, which is legion (from my end, it shouldn't aspire to), ... starting with creative ways to circumvent paper-thin regulations in place. In FM there is no match rigging, there is no WAGS, there is no disguising of what's going on behind any transfers and officials forced to resign over any such later on (Rosell->Neymar's initial moveo to Europe), there is also no slanging matches behind parties involved and personally I'm glad for it. The generally question how a player would take up any opportunity just as long as the money serves right is an interesting one. How far can you stretch? Which attributes? For legal reasons, personalities that may be perceived as less favorable typically only shine in new-gens later on. Even if you would be able to edit Neymar in a way that should make him switch allegiances as soon as he earns a penny more no matter where, he may not do so. And if he were to behave that way in-game, SI may be dragged to court. Nobody would want to see his public imagine tarnished. To me that is a loss. Due to an error made in research, still fondly remember the iteration where Podolski four seasons in always had declined this much he wasn't even fit to compete for spots at then Cologne anymore -- his supposedly lack of ambitious on the training ground was a bit of a story then. It's that one version where negative public image (deserved or undeserved) showed through, albeit in unintentionally, humorous and exaggerated ways, and it hinted at how the game could be more colorful if money "legal challenge" weren't such a bloody effin' bitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 On 8/4/2017 at 15:38, craigd84 said: See im this way about Liverpool! 10k a week for the rest of my life no questions. without getting too personal, are you earning around 10k a week now? i agree with the sentiment, but 10k a week for me is like saying yeah, i love the club, but i still want a 500k a year pay rise. perfect example of trying to fm the real world lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 On 8/2/2017 at 22:42, herne79 said: Something linked to low loyalty and high controversy probably. But then I don't think FM coding covers the "hey here's 300m, use 200m of it to buy out your contract, keep the rest and the club we own will then sign you on a free transfer to get round FFP" scenario. tax is a lot of that extra 100 million im gona have to stop reading these threads. not been online for a few days and they are just everywhere lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigd84 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 On 8/5/2017 at 17:06, lemeuresnew said: without getting too personal, are you earning around 10k a week now? i agree with the sentiment, but 10k a week for me is like saying yeah, i love the club, but i still want a 500k a year pay rise. perfect example of trying to fm the real world lol LOL no of course not, but i mean this when i say it... 10k a week at Anfield would be more than enough. The passion i have for the club is something special. I have never been driven by cash, even in my current job i refuse to do night shifts despite the fact i would earn ALOT more than i do doing days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordieboy52 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 This would be hard to do from a legal POV, there was a thing a few years ago, where newgens would be seen falling out of clubs before training etc. but nothing could be done to current players due to the legalities of it. The same applies if a player is labelled greedy, it is essentially libellous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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