Joey Numbaz Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I realize I don't have Neymar and Gabriel Jesus and company, but I've got some pretty good players. Trying to build a very tough in the back, and score enough tactic. So I've gone for solid defenders as the DMs and BBM. Played around with it a little. Tried IFa - DLFs - IFa for the front three. Also APs - CFs - Ws Also tried out retain possession and changing between Counter and Control mentality. I've settled on this for now. I'm just not generating much offense at all. In my first game against 20th place Brentford, it went pretty well; 32-5 shots, 12 on target to 3. We only won 1-0, but we out-chanced them 7-1. I was encouraged. Bournemouth, we outshot 17-11, but it was 6-6 on target. 4-4 chances. That's not so good. We lost 1-0. West Brom away, outshot us 14-9, 4-3 on target. Beat us 5-2 on chances, and we salvaged a 1-1 draw at 90+3 with an own goal. Granted Davies blasted one at the net and it bounced of their guy, but still not good. Chelsea in the league cup semi, 2nd leg. Entered down 1-0 from the first leg, and won 1-0 in 120 minutes. They were much more tired, but we played a couple of kids so I think that evened it out. We outshot them 14-12, 4-4 on target, and 4 chances to 3. It was a very even game. We won on penalties (not that that matters). I realize it's January and I'm throwing a new tactic at this team, but we've played a lot of 4-3-3 and they are mostly familiar with it even with the tweaks. Are there any glaring holes here? I'd appreciate any suggestions for how to give this a little more attacking punch, while maintaining a defense first posture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Numbaz Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 Also, I have no PIs at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Numbaz Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 And I used this article from Spielverlagerung, some things I heard on the Double Pivot podcast, and @Rashidi's takes on the formation from the first two games Brazil played for inspiration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lam Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 In a little bit of a rush for my take on things but you have justone player on attack duty. They are all supporting.....but who are they supporting? Personally I'd look at IF(A). MCR-MC(A) so he is moving into space generated by the winger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Low mentality and no attack duties (iwb doesnt count! )... And the title is help me get more attack? Doesnt matter what roles... But you need to up the mentality and add some attackers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodder Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 10 hours ago, westy8chimp said: Low mentality and no attack duties (iwb doesnt count! )... And the title is help me get more attack? Doesnt matter what roles... But you need to up the mentality and add some attackers! You can generate good quality attacking footy on the counter mentality, but you sure as heck need more attack minded players. I'd guess this is defending Ok, transitioning and then stalling leading to a rash pass or recycling possession without intent. Have a runner from the midfield line, and two of the front three should probably have an attacking mentality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 52 minutes ago, khodder said: You can generate good quality attacking footy on the counter mentality, but you sure as heck need more attack minded players. I'd guess this is defending Ok, transitioning and then stalling leading to a rash pass or recycling possession without intent. Have a runner from the midfield line, and two of the front three should probably have an attacking mentality. Agree. You can create good attacks on defensive too and probably contain. But on simple terms he is on an attacking scale of 3/7 and add to that just 1/10 attack duties (and that being a defender)... So how to add more attack? Two very simple things jump out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summatsupeer Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I don't think they are a Counter mentality, I think they're more a possession style, the deeper players play safer and let the front 5 take the risks running/dribbling/passing. My TI setup would probably start as Control + Structured + Lower Tempo + Shorter Passing + Play Out of Defence. Personally I don't like IF-S + MEZ-S, I feel thats two roles doing a similar job in the same areas too often. I also don't think Coutinho plays as a MEZ, he's the teams playmaker and distributes to the front 3 plus Paulinho gets forward. Probably a AP-S, maybe a DLP-S as sometimes he looks more patient with his passing waiting for the right runner. Not really a RPM-S as he stays mostly central and doesn't dribble. Not really a AP-A again doesn't dribble lots and is more patient and deep. I've seen more of Brazil with Filipe Luís than Marcelo so can't really say if IWB-A is accurate, but I do think your team would be better with a FB that stays wide, if using Galloway i'd keep it simple so he doesn't waste it as a FB-S or FB-A. I think Paulinho takes more risks with his running than a BBM-S, especially for his goal (crap closing down by Matic/Savic (? I forgot) on Coutinho and a lovely pass. Probably a CM-A for me with Willian a W-S outside of him. Casemiro I think could be either a DM-D or DM-S (as you have him), I think he doesn't take risks in that system. Sits, plays it simple and lets the front 5 do the risky stuff. As i'm using a more risk mentality i'd use DM-D initially, especially if the LB is more a Marcelo than Luis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
facman Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Not sure if you're still looking for comments, but as I'm currently playing an Everton save with a 4-1-2-3 I thought I'd chip in. Here are the things I would consider: Change Sandro to an IF(A) Swap the Mezzala and the BBM to the opposite side Change Galloway to a support duty and Coleman to an Attack duty drop the Sit Narrower and Be More Disciplined TIs Now on to the why?: An IF(A) supported by a BBM(S) should both make attacking runs into the box, the IF(A) as a main goal-scoring threat and the BBM to mop up and provide secondary options. The DR with an Attack duty will look to overlap the right winger, and the two of them together should provide a delivery service for the striker and the two runners from the left side of the pitch. In addition, they should provide a defensive distraction to allow the MCR (now the Mezzala) to have space to run into. Galloway, now with a support duty, will cover the space behind the BBM and provide a recycle passing option, as will the DM. The Counter/Structured mentality/shape already makes your team narrow and less creative, adding in the TIs will only make it harder for your team to generate space as everyone will be crammed into the middle of the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I developed a similar tactic to yours. Been testing it with variety of teams from Everton, Leverkusen to Athletics Madrid and Spurs. False 9 up top with Raumdeuter on left and Wide Targetman/winger on right depending on players. Advanced playmaker(S) in CM strata behind the Raumdeuter. Mezzala(A) to take advantage of space generated by winger and false 9. DM S in front of basic 2 centrebacks. Wingback on support behind the Raumdeuter and fullback on attack behind the winger. Control structured mentality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Numbaz Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 Thanks for all of the great feedback guys. I have tweaked some things along the way. I am such a tinkerer, I can't just let things run their course. I change it a little almost every game. The MEZ/IF on the same side definitely didn't work. I also increased the attack duties. If the opponent plays wingbacks I try to attack down that flank. If they have IF I set the corresponding FB/WB to sit narrower. I go back and forth between Defensive to open the game and Control/Attack if I need to push up. When playing a 4231 I drop the line to normal, take away play out of defense and make the CDd BPDd instead. Also let the DLPd (where the MEZ used to be) play more risky passes to try for balls over the top and I have the front five all close down much more. I took off prevent short GK distribution, because against a 4231 I actually want them to try to play out of the back and not launch it forward over my back line. Here's the updated vs. 4231 I've played a lot of 4231s, so I haven't really used this one in a bit, but this is the more normal tactic when not playing a 4231 or a formation that has 2 strikers: I am not nearly as comfortable with this version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Numbaz Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, crusadertsar said: I developed a similar tactic to yours. Been testing it with variety of teams from Everton, Leverkusen to Athletics Madrid and Spurs. False 9 up top with Raumdeuter on left and Wide Targetman/winger on right depending on players. Advanced playmaker(S) in CM strata behind the Raumdeuter. Mezzala(A) to take advantage of space generated by winger and false 9. DM S in front of basic 2 centrebacks. Wingback on support behind the Raumdeuter and fullback on attack behind the winger. Control structured mentality I really like these ideas, I am going to try them out, hopefully soon. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said: I really like these ideas, I am going to try them out, hopefully soon. Thanks! No problem. If you do you will see some beautifully flowing football. My usual attack, wide targetman receives a long ball and crosses it to advanced playmaker or lays off a safer pass to onrushing mezzala. There's so much space that opens up for the two attacking options of Raumdeuter and mezzala Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Numbaz Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 Do you put the WTM/W on support or attack? EDIT - I am guess support since the MEZ and FB are both on attack behind him, but wanted to be sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Yup on support but sometimes I experiment with attacking roles next to other attacking roles and it works well. Like using AP (a) to actually support the Raumdeuter. It's not like with attack duty they will forget to support other players they will just do so from more advanced position and dribble more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
facman Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 The Raumdeuter and winger options are something I’ve been considering, as Everton have some good right wingers. At the moment though playing Sigurdsson and Walcott as Inside Forwards is working well - just beat Liverpool 3-0 and put another 3 past Palace away from home with Siggy getting 2 of them from runs into the box! 😎 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 40 minutes ago, facman said: The Raumdeuter and winger options are something I’ve been considering, as Everton have some good right wingers. At the moment though playing Sigurdsson and Walcott as Inside Forwards is working well - just beat Liverpool 3-0 and put another 3 past Palace away from home with Siggy getting 2 of them from runs into the box! 😎 Nice! I'm becoming a huge fan of Raumdeuter. Had Pietro Pelligri score 4 against Barcelona in that role on left. Not bad for the first Championship campaign for Everton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Numbaz Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, crusadertsar said: Nice! I'm becoming a huge fan of Raumdeuter. Had Pietro Pelligri score 4 against Barcelona in that role on left. Not bad for the first Championship campaign for Everton Great that we both signed him. I'm excited about his future. I've trained him on the right wing myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Yeah he is a great great player. I just wish I got him younger. He is nineteen but still has a ton of potential Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
facman Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Pelligri, you say? Will have to look out for him! just got Bolasie back from injury so options are opening up. Going to try the Raumdeuter/Mezzala option as an alternative to my twin Inside Forward tactic. 👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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