Advice needed on scoring more goals.

[Elitee]

So I am managing Real Madrid and struggling to score goals. How right? I have read guides and watch BTN videos and maybe I am trying to many things at once, I don't know. However when I manage Real Madrid I can get good results with most formations bar 41221. I can have great success with other clubs, just not with Madrid.

 

PI's and how I view them:

 GK - Take short kicks, fewer risky passes. - I hate them kicking it long just to lose it. 

RB - Sit narrower, cut inside with the ball, dribble less. - I have a winger out wide, and a Mezzala supporting him, having the full back inside gives a passing option in midfield. 

CBs - Fewer risky passes, pass it shorted - Same as GK really, play it safe.

LB - Run wide with ball - Give width on the left. 

 

Swapped to this tactic at the Leganes game and as you can see I have great success defensively conceding just 4 goals however the other end is scoring not so many. Quite a few goals come from set pieces also so it's even less from open play. 

From my last 15 matches, I have created 25 CCC only scoring 9. I'm at a loss as to how to improve the attacking play whilst keeping it great  defensively. Normally I would just make a new tactic and hope for the best on that one but I'm currently in the process of trying everything such as Training, making my own tactics and sticking with it.  I am currently sat with 36% shots on target ratio which is horrendous, mostly are from Bale and Asensio I would imagine. Benzema has scored my last 3 goals to which he hadn't score for 20 hours...

Normally I just plug and play. I apologies if I am looking like a noob .

[westy8chimp]

You have identified an issue - lack of goals.

Forget your current setup. Assume you are creating a 4123 wide from scratch with 1 goal only - to score a lot. Before reading on, I would actually do this... be it on paper or in the game.. even if it's really aggressive in terms of roles, duty, mentality

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To me this again has elements of "I've read a mixture of theories... I'm going to apply good balance" (one WB one FB, one IF one Wing, A defend midfield, a static mid, one runner).

It's not your fault... there is a plethora of conflicting info 'out there'

But try and think more clearly.. you are RM ... teams will be defensive/cautious/deep vs you... is the slow build up with a bottom heavy formation really going to break the door down? Who is Bale crossing to? Is an IF and DLF going to score more goals than a Poacher/AF/CF (a)

I'm using fluid in my current 41212 narrow - because I actively want to bring my strikers a bit deeper to the midfield - the reason... I have aggressive roles and a lot of pace. Benzema is a DLF, a pretty slow one at that, do you really want a fluid setup reducing his mentality and start position further?

Bale as W on support will look for early balls.. will the IF and DLF be in the box? Would a winger on attack crossing from the byline give more time for the Mez, DLF and IF to get in the box?

Do you need a back 4 and a DM on defend duty? The DM could be your playmaker and the AP could be a CM(a) for instance... perhaps you are being overly cautious... DM could at least be support so he is more available as an out ball when you attack... Mez could then be attack.

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Even after you assess all that... what made you choose 4123, is it aggressive enough to beat packed defences?

[Elitee]

I hear you. I will have a think and adjust things when I get back on. What you say makes sense perfect sense about the roles and how the interact. 

As for the 4123, I just love the formation, I always come back to it on Football Manager, always go with 433 on Fifa. Maybe I could create a more aggressive tactic like the AI do if I need a goal late on. 

Thanks a lot westy!

[westy8chimp]

1 hour ago, Elitee said:

for the 4123, I just love the formation, I always come back to it on Football 

This is a positive... One variable you can fix in place so really just focus on roles, duty, mentality and then TI if needed. 

Good luck... I think you could still benefit from locking down one or two more ideas - pre fm. I. E. I want to play all out attack.. Or i want to build around an IF... I find it helps drive other decisions to make a coherent tactic...whatever style you choose

[Elitee]

Well this is interesting, played 2 games with adjusted roles and the difference it has made. I can now see why I was having problems scoring, being to conservative defensively without realizing. 

So against Valencia, these were my shots. 2 CCC's and 5 half chances with 11 long shots. Similar story against Atlético Madrid also, quite a lot of long shots with no real chances created. Pretty much every game I play. 

First game with new roles away to Sevilla. The game ended 1-1 which isn't the best but it looked a good game. I missed a penalty to go 0-2 up. 4 CCC's created, I had more options and even during this game I looked more dangerous. 

Next game was home to Inter Milan in the 2nd leg, 0-0 after the first leg. I just dominated them from 0-90. 5 CCC's, 5 half chances, only 2 long shots! The best display I have seen all season. 

Thank you once again for making things clearer @westy8chimp

 

[Robson 07]

First and foremost never disregard a winning tactic with any team.

As such it is hard to critique but just to give you a different view on things, I'd say the tactic is a bit 'nice'.  Its a bit idealistic.

Where's a bit of direct football, a stopper, a water carrier, a defensive winger or a ****-kicker (excuse me BWM)?  You don't need a team of those just occasionally someone to do the unsung work.  Man City's Fernandinho; Liverpool's Milner.

It's not necessarily going to make you score more.  Its just as I say, another angle to look at the tactic.

[Snorks]

I have AC milan currently, and use the same formation as you - Biglia my DLP -d in the DM slot, highest pass completion in Serie A from there.

On the right flank, Delofeu as W-A has been a monster, two assists away from breaking the Serie A record, he has Kessie as Mezzala Support from MC, and either Conti or Calabria behind him on FB-S.

This 'triangle' of players is here the bulk of my assists come from as I can tweak it in-game to find the gaps - if Delofeu is struggling/marked out of the game,  I switch him to Support and the FB on Attack with Look for Overlap, Kessie can play Mez-S or Mez-A with the W-S (also Locatelli does a good job).

Biglia will feed the ball to one of the three from DM.

So, FB staying wider, Winger attacking and Mezzala supporting on that flank should open up chances for you - a half decent Striker should get plenty.

[summatsupeer]

Your winning, though I appreciate in many games its only by 1 goal and in the Spanish league you'd expect RM to be more comfortable.

Tactically there's nothing really bad with it, I think the main issue is the players used in it, assuming that is your starting team:

• From memory Bale is very left footed and will play more like a IF than winger, if he does try to cross it will likely be on his weak foot (affects the end product) or have to cut back. 
• Isco is more a creator than scorer I think, so having him as a IF-A doesn't play to his strengths. 
• Again not sure exactly what Traits he has but I think Modric would have collect from deep and other playmaker type traits which would go against the what the MEZ is meant to do.  With the 3 forwards two of whom are playing high and trying to run in behind and the AP-S moving to collect the ball from deep that leaves the MEZ to help link midfield to attack and give a different option to advance the ball.  If he's starting deeper than normal he could be behind play, especially if the AP tries a longer riskier ball to one of the forwards.

To get more from the starting players i'd look to have Isco, Modric and Benzema be more creators (doesn't mean playmaker roles) and have Bale be the runner.  In a 433 DM Wide I don't think you have to use a winger if both CM are supportive rather than runners trying to get past the ST.  You could use Bale as the IF-A using his pace to threaten runs in behind, Isco as IF-S can collect deeper and try to create with his creative skills.  Modric/Kroos a supportive creative pair (don't need to both be playmakers) working the ball around the box with the ST mixing up his play (CF-S?) to use the #10 area and making runs from deep rather than playing on the shoulder as a DLF-A. Oh and then the RB can do a traditional FB type role supporting that flank rather than being more of a IWB.

Otherwise i'd say you need to look for players better suited to the current tactic.

[Elitee]

I appreciate the help guys, managed to go on and end the season on a high with better results and performances!

[RodentofDoom]

You need to ask yourself some questions.

 

 - How do I want my players to move on the pitch

 - How will my players move on the pitch with the given instructions

 - Who do I want scoring the goals

 - Who gets the ball to them

 - How will the system adapt under different opposition styles

 

#1 establishes your vision for the tactic (do a rough sketch on paper)

#2 checks if your tactic matches the vision (do a rough sketch again)

#3 & #4 addresses multiple routes to goal attempts (it helps to avoid 1 dimensional play)

#5 looks at what happens vs defensive teams etc.

 

 

How i understand the 'long shot' goal attempt problem

A player will look to maintain the attacking focus of play, so he will look for passing options centrally or on either wing

If there are no clear passing opportunities he has 2 choices

Shoot at range (maintain attacking focus)

Perform a safe back pass (switch to a defensive focus) 

 

Hope this helps.