Best setup for the 4-3-3 formation

[CEVR1996]

I'm a fan of the 4-3-3 formation, its the one that, on paper atleast, I find out to be the most balanced and flexible formation since it has atleast 3 players in each third of the pitch, defense, midfield and attack but ultimately it all comes down to how you set it up, role and instruction wise, in order to be successful with it and that's the tricky part for me. I have noticed that the lone striker tends to get little to no engagement in the play and is often left isolated which results in him having poor ratings almost every game. The 2 more advanced midfielders never push as high up the pitch when in possession or during a counter attack as I would like to and the wingers usually resort to shooting from distance instead of moving into open spaces or they just run too much with the ball resulting in frequent loss of possession and the opposition counter attacking as a result. This seems to be a recurring thing regardless of the roles or instructions I give to the team, only having the percentage of possession and number of shots increasing or decreasing according to how direct I set the passing and how fast I set the tempo but overall, the amount of quality chances and good build up play remains poor not to mention that the defensive side tends to be a bit dodgy as well. Personaly, I really enjoy seeing that fast attacking football which looks to explore the space behind the opposition's defensive line but without hoofing long balls up field every time the team wins the ball back even when no one is there to make a run like it happens when I set the passing to more direct with faster tempo.

[westy8chimp]

You havent mentioned a team... Are you looking for a one size fits all? That doesnt really exist... Sure you can create a very well balanced safe 433 that wont fail... But its far better to tailor your formation around your team. Primarily the players at your disposal (if i have Pogba available i probably set all the roles up very differently to if i have Lee Catermole)... And also you teams reputation, so you can make some assumptions about the style the opposition are likely to throw at you (if you are on of the high rep teams you may face more cautious teams so the space to create may be deeper on the pitch and less space for direct balls... If you are a relegation candidate the opposite is likely to be true). 

If you do want an example applicable to your current save or a save you are thinking of doing... Post some of the details...who are you, who are your key players... Do you have a particular philosophy you want to try? 

[CEVR1996]

35 minutos atrás, westy8chimp disse:

You havent mentioned a team... Are you looking for a one size fits all? That doesnt really exist... Sure you can create a very well balanced safe 433 that wont fail... But its far better to tailor your formation around your team. Primarily the players at your disposal (if i have Pogba available i probably set all the roles up very differently to if i have Lee Catermole)... And also you teams reputation, so you can make some assumptions about the style the opposition are likely to throw at you (if you are on of the high rep teams you may face more cautious teams so the space to create may be deeper on the pitch and less space for direct balls... If you are a relegation candidate the opposite is likely to be true). 

If you do want an example applicable to your current save or a save you are thinking of doing... Post some of the details...who are you, who are your key players... Do you have a particular philosophy you want to try? 

I'm managing SL Benfica which has a pretty high reputation and its one of the best teams in the league so I'm assuming a positive more attacking focused philosophy would suit them best as they are expected to win most games they play and dominate the opposition. This said, more direct passing is probably not going to be very effective as you said. 

The team overall has good technical abilities, decent pace down the wings with 4 very good wingers, two left footed and two right footed and the two main fullbacks are very good at going foward and solid defensively with great crossing ability. The 3 strikers are all very well rounded, none of them is particularly fast but they aren't slow either. The midfield has a bit of everything with some good creative players. The center backs lack pace but are tall and strong, good tacklers and have solid mental attributes as well.

Key players: Ruben Dias (CB), Alex Grimaldo (LB), Ljubomir Fejsa (CDM), Pizzi (Creative midfielder) and Gedson Fernandes (Box-to-Box midfielder)

These are the players I consider to be undisputed starters atm but the team has very good dept in the squad.

[CEVR1996]

Right now the formation is set with the following roles:

                        CF(S)

W(A).                                     W(A)

 

               BBM(S).  Mez(A)

                     BwM(D)

WB(S).    CD(D).  CD(D).    WB(S)

                      GK(D)

 

[westy8chimp]

I think Grimaldo is good enough to be a primary attacking threat, id perhaps want him as either fb or wb on attack duty with a support IF ahead of him (i prefer fb role to wb if the player has the requisite stamina to get up and down the pitch, better defensive shape... I use wb when there is no other wide man ahead, the advantage of a higher starting position becomes more important) 

Benfica are one of the better sides, you could perhaps try a more positive role in DM... Id want a playmaker as in that area of the pitch there should be some freedom to dictate play. 

Bbm plus mez looks good combo, certainly suits the formation. 

I love the CF role... My tendancy is more towards an attack duty... Particularly as the bbm and mez are progressive roles so wont lead to an isolated striker. But thats definitely something you will work out through observations. Wing attack is a potent role and i would certainly keep one. 

Mentality given the roles and spread of attack duty you could start at balanced...let the player role and duty do the work in deciding which players make the runs and the riskier passes. Especially if you were to implement the fb-a i suggest. 

Passing/tempo/lines of engagement all things to really observe during the match to get the right balance. I personally wouldnt be too extreme on any of the settings... But if you have a style to achieve like a manic counter press, or deeper line to create space for counters... Go for it, anything can work if you keep tying it altogether and constantly observe what fits and what doesnt. 

[CEVR1996]

I changed the roles in the formation according to your suggestions so now it looks like this:

                        CF(A)

IF(S).                                     W(A)

 

               BBM(S).  Mez(A)

                     DLP(D)

FB(A).    CD(D).  CD(D).    FB(S)

                      GK(D)

 

I have set a deeper defensive line with a higher tempo, playing out of defense and working the ball into the box, trying to go for those quick counters which worked quite well in the first game I did with this new setup although I played against a weaker opponent. One thing I noticed is that the winger on attack tends to run way too much with the ball and always hugs the line until he can find a good position to cross but this excessive running leaves him vulnerable to losing the ball when he gets surrounded by opposition players and that happens more often than not. Does the winger role make a player be more selfish with the ball? It does seem like it from what I've seen.

[westy8chimp]

10 hours ago, CEVR1996 said:

Does the winger role make a player be more selfish with the ball? It does seem like it from what I've seen.

The combination of role and duty will see the winger dribble more aggresively and try to get to the byline... Im still getting to grips with this ME myself... Id give it a few games to get a good look at patterns... If its not working for you try support duty... Then maybe an IF but with PI to stay wide and keep a little width down the right flank... Could always drop it back to a WM if you want the player to do a little of everything rather a lot of one thing. 

Keep an eye on other threads in this forum and the GD feedback... Theres a lot of talk about crossing vs central play. Dont be blinkered by it (your own observations are vital)... But be aware of it as sometimes things going well or not wont be purely based on tactical logic (the game can inadvertantly favour types of behaviour over others...certainly on the early patches) 

[CEVR1996]

My current tactic has been fairly inconsistent, in some games it provides perfect counter attacking play with hoofed balls behind the opposition's defensive line, either through the flanks or the middle but on others it looks more like a possession based tactic with too much focus on crossing near the byline or shooting from range near the edge of the box. I'm assuming these major differences in how the tactic plays out from game to game are due to how the opposition is set to play but its hard to point out exactly why it has been so inconsistent when it comes to the number of good chances created, style of play and overall defensive shape as well, sometimes the defense looks very solid and on others it looks shaky, maybe that is simply because the opponent is being more aggressive in attack but until now I've only played similar or weaker opponents and I'm still in pre season. I know the tactics take a little while to achieve full cohesion within the team but when you see such big differences from one game to another against similar level teams, it makes you wonder if there is something fundamentally wrong with the tactic or if its just the process of slowly assimilating the game plan showing up.

[melogroovy]

I'm determined to make a 433 with a half back.  I'm going:

                                   Muto  PF a

Kenedy IF a                                        Ritchie IF s

                    Hayden BBM s  Shelvey DLP s

                                       Soucek HB d

Dummet FB s  Lascelles CD d  Fernandez CD d Yedlin FB a

                                     Dubravka SK d

I'll be following this thread to see how you do.

 

 

[CEVR1996]

I've changed the right winger on attack to an IF(S) and the right fullback to FB(A) so now its symetrical on both sides and its working very well through the flanks and although the fullbacks seem a bit hesitant to make crosses, those haven't been very effective anyway, it works better when they make short passes inside the box. Only thing bothering me slightly is the fact that the box-to-box midfielder is basically a long shot merchant, often shooting from range even when a good passing lane is open but there really isn't anything one can do about it, seems to be hardcoded into the role, even with the instruction to shoot less frequently. Nevertheless, its an effective role still and seems to do quite well coupled with the Mezzala role and the deep lying playmaker behind them seems to do a great job at dictating the play.

[haagendasz]

Anybody has suggestions for 433 with flat 3 MC ?

I used that formation in FM17 with good results but struggling to replicate it in FM19.

I always use that formation in ManU saves so the line up as follow in FM17:

Gk-d : DDG

DR (WB-s) : Valencia/similar quality 

DL (WB-a) : Shaw/similar quality

DC (CD-d both) : De ligt, Bailly (usual pairing 1 fast 1 slow)

MC (left to right) (BBM, DLP-d, CM-a) : Nainggolan, Herrera/Blind, Pogba. Sometimes BWM-s on the left if Fellaini is playing.

AMR (AP-a) : Mata

AML (IF-s) : Griezmann

CF-a : Lewandowski.

Now in FM19 I try to replicate the formation but it didn’t work that good.

AML is Sanchez or Martial.

I changed to CF role to AF or PF-a with Lukaku there or Rashford.

[Experienced Defender]

On 08/11/2018 at 22:26, haagendasz said:

Anybody has suggestions for 433 with flat 3 MC ?

I used that formation in FM17 with good results but struggling to replicate it in FM19.

I always use that formation in ManU saves so the line up as follow in FM17:

Gk-d : DDG

DR (WB-s) : Valencia/similar quality 

DL (WB-a) : Shaw/similar quality

DC (CD-d both) : De ligt, Bailly (usual pairing 1 fast 1 slow)

MC (left to right) (BBM, DLP-d, CM-a) : Nainggolan, Herrera/Blind, Pogba. Sometimes BWM-s on the left if Fellaini is playing.

AMR (AP-a) : Mata

AML (IF-s) : Griezmann

CF-a : Lewandowski.

Now in FM19 I try to replicate the formation but it didn’t work that good.

AML is Sanchez or Martial.

I changed to CF role to AF or PF-a with Lukaku there or Rashford.

What particular types of issues do you have with this tactic - attacking, defensive or both?

Also, besides formation, roles and duties, what are your other tactical settings / instructions?

[pauly15]

[pq]

Great result Pauly15! Any PI's? 

[haagendasz]

On 11/11/2018 at 21:53, Experienced Defender said:

What particular types of issues do you have with this tactic - attacking, defensive or both?

Also, besides formation, roles and duties, what are your other tactical settings / instructions?

Defensively we are quite okay, we can hold Chelsea and Arsenal to draw. But we were struggling in creating chances. 

During pre season we were winning using the formation due to quality differences with the opponent.

Mentality usually balanced or cautious (against good team).

Tactical setting mostly from Gegenpress, shorter passing, play from defense, work ball to box, standard attacking width, standard tempo, short kick to CB, counter, counter press, higher defensive line and higher line of engagement, standard defensive width, offiside trap, extremely urgent pressing, tighter marking. 

In my FM17 save, the CF-a is actively drawing the defender toward him or he is always in position to get the header from WB cross. The WB cross was my main source of goals. 

Lewandowski was excellent as CF-a, now I have Lukaku and he is nothing near Lewandowski’s quality. 

I just changed my formation to 4-1-4-1 DM (former 4123DM) now it works better but with Alexis as CF-a. 

I have to learn how to adapt to opposition’s tactic since I always lost to Bayern and Inter Milan in UCL group stage using the 4141 DM formation.

Thanks.

[Experienced Defender]

23 minutes ago, haagendasz said:

shorter passing, play from defense, work ball to box, standard attacking width, standard tempo, short kick to CB, counter, counter press, higher defensive line and higher line of engagement, standard defensive width, offiside trap, extremely urgent pressing, tighter marking. 

I would guess the instructions I bolded and reddened are the most "problematic" ones, because most people who have the same kind of issues like you tend to use this extremely aggressive defending (out of possession) instructions. Of course, part of the problem could also stem from some roles and/or duties (or even PIs), but I would first try with being slightly less aggressive with LOE, DL and pressing intensity (tighter marking as a team instruction is also not necessary IMO). Although these are nominally defensive instructions, they also affect your attacking play (by reducing the available space in the opposition half that your players could otherwise exploit)

[pauly15]

If you want to play short it's really important to ensure the players are close to one another. 

For example, if you play a flat midfield 3 with one dlp(d) you risk that dlp not being close enough for the DC's to play short to him, and also him not keeping up with play to be a short option for MCs who need to play backwards. 

I've found a DMC (s) a good role. 

Also, you can't have IF(a)'s on the side of your deeper MC. E.g. if you play an advanced playmaker in MC, you can prob get away with an IF(a) and they'll still be close enough to play short. But anything less forward positioned than an ap will struggle if played in the same side. I play a CM(s) on the same side as my IF(s) and they work well.